Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 4, 2020 23:57:46 GMT
So I've decided to rewatch the prequels again as I am curious to see how they stack up now the SW saga is complete and moreso contrast them with the sequels as they are fresh in peoples minds. I finished watching TPM Episode 1 a few hours ago, the first time since seeing it in the theatres.
And I was pleasantly surprised, it holds up very well. The dialogue is a bit clunky especially during the opening 40 minutes but once they land on Tattoine, it improves significantly. Jar Jar wasn't that annoying to me, I had a good chuckle at his bafoonery more than once and his comedic relief isn't overcooked. I honestly dont see why Episode 1 gets hated on the most. Certainly it was more enjoyable to watch than tRoS. One of the main reasons is the nature of the force is handled with the mysterious and religious connotations that it deserves with many elegant dialogue exchanges in TPF, especially spoken by Liam Neeson. The story for me overall has a firmer, natural structure to it compared with tRoS. It ties together very neatly to lead us into the third act. And that final battle was highly entertaining with the centerpiece being Maul vs Jinn + Obi supported by the bombastic orchestrals of Williams score. I couldn't get into tRoS finale, it just seemed to lack investment and intrigue.
I will watch Episode 2+3 soon. I dont hate tRoS as many seem to do but I can say the same thing about Phantom Menace.
|
|
shinnickneth
Junior Member
@shinnickneth
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 1,780
|
Post by shinnickneth on Jan 5, 2020 19:16:33 GMT
So I've decided to rewatch the prequels again as I am curious to see how they stack up now the SW saga is complete and moreso contrast them with the sequels as they are fresh in peoples minds. I finished watching TPM Episode 1 a few hours ago, the first time since seeing it in the theatres. And I was pleasantly surprised, it holds up very well. The dialogue is a bit clunky especially during the opening 40 minutes but once they land on Tattoine, it improves significantly. Jar Jar wasn't that annoying to me, I had a good chuckle at his bafoonery more than once and his comedic relief isn't overcooked. I honestly dont see why Episode 1 gets hated on the most. Certainly it was more enjoyable to watch than tRoS. One of the main reasons is the nature of the force is handled with the mysterious and religious connotations that it deserves with many elegant dialogue exchanges in TPF, especially spoken by Liam Neeson. The story for me overall has a firmer, natural structure to it compared with tRoS. It ties together very neatly to lead us into the third act. And that final battle was highly entertaining with the centerpiece being Maul vs Jinn + Obi supported by the bombastic orchestrals of Williams score. I couldn't get into tRoS finale, it just seemed to lack investment and intrigue. I will watch Episode 2+3 soon. I dont hate tRoS as many seem to do but I can say the same thing about Phantom Menace. Good posting/thoughts. Instead of paying for Episode 9, I actually stayed home and rewatched the PT recently as well (the OT is next, but I may throw on Rogue One before that). I like the pacing of Episode 1. We get to see a lot of new planets/species over a short period of time. Naboo was a great addition to Lucas' galaxy, in my opinion. I think it is probably my favorite from the PT (although the lava planet of Mustafar finally being used from Ralph McQuarrie's fantastic concept art from the 70's is fantastic too). The funny thing about this movie is that I remember being in the theater with the first, sold-out midnight showing in my city and people laughing repeatedly at Jar Jar. They loved him. It wasn't until shortly before Episode 2's release that I first heard complaints about the character. People did grow to despise him haha. I think if they had used a different actor for Binks' voice (perhaps someone with a deeper voice), Jar Jar may have been received differently. Maybe. I liked how even though the Hutts aren't in the movie very much, they're still talked about as having strong control on Tatooine. Duel of Fates is still my favorite song from the PT. Lucas replacing the atrocious Episode 1 Yoda puppet with CGI Yoda was a much better change from the theatrical cut. The grappling hook on the blasters is still silly to me, but a very minor nitpick on my part. Episode 2 is still fine. I like the business on Coruscant. I still thoroughly enjoy Yoda's lightsaber duel. I agree with others that Dooku wasn't nearly as memorable as Maul (sorry Christopher Lee). The latter should have been the apprentice to Sidious for the whole trilogy until Darth Vader emerged. It's interesting to note that Benicio Del Toro was originally cast to play Maul. He dropped out of the role after Lucas cut most of Maul's lines from the script. The Jedi coming into the arena is still a great moment (I remember the audience in the theater cheering over that). I was surprised to find I liked Jango Fett more than in the past. I don't think Boba should have been in the movie (sorry Daniel Logan), maybe just a quick clue that Jango intended to have a son. Episode 3 is still my favorite episode of the PT. The opening space battle is my favorite of Lucas' movies. Hayden gives a much better performance and his 70's hairstyle is a nice transition towards the OT. I like Bail Organa gets a slightly larger role in the movie. I would have liked Anakin and Obi-Wan to have at least 2 more scenes together. It's kind of jolting how Obi-Wan go from saying goodbye to one another after Anakin's issues with the Council, and then they don't see each other again until they're about to duel towards the end of the movie. Order 66 is greatly executed and John William's accompanied score sets the mood for it wonderfully. Grevious is ok...I do like that the character's cough in the movie is George Lucas' actual own cough because he was sick during a portion of making Episode 3 and it was suggested (probably by Ben Burtt) they use him for it. I still really enjoy the whole confrontation between Windu and the other Jedi when they go to arrest Palpatine. It would have been interesting to see a five-way duel go on just a little longer between all of them. Palpatine dispatched them just a little too quickly (perhaps that was the point though) for the audience to fully enjoy it, in my opinion. The same problem goes for Grevious losing his multiple lightsabers too quickly during his duel with Obi-Wan...if they're going to include multiple force users/lightsabers, let's see them fully utilized! Anyway, update when you've rewatched the others.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 5, 2020 19:23:53 GMT
Attack of the Clones is better than any of the Star Wars films Disney has put out so far. Too bad the other two prequels are all worse than all the Disney films except for Solo....
|
|
|
Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Jan 5, 2020 21:49:55 GMT
We rewatched the prequels over the past couple of weeks.
TPM - Still awful. The racist Asian trade federation guys. The terrible "Whoops!" "What does this button do?" Anakin. Jar Jar bends over and literally gets farted in his face. It's just unbelievable.
AOTC - Hilarious. The funniest of all the Star Wars films I have seen and the one with the greatest meme value. A real triumph. Highlight is still Padme rolling about in the sand in pain then instantly jumping back up ok. Classic stuff.
ROTS - Not too far off AOTC. Also very funny with plenty of quotable lines, e.g. "another happy landing", "I am the senate", "you are so... beautiful". Plus the coughing, spluttering Grievious is good for a laugh. Watching still gives some feelings of sadness over what might have been as this is the closest to a genuine effort but still a lot of fun.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 5, 2020 23:21:35 GMT
This trilogy is more than the sum of its individual parts; one of the few examples of true auteur filmmaking in blockbuster cinema. It is may be an acquired taste due to it's complex political backdrop and worldbuilding but this is the very thing that makes it unique in the genre. If you have to pitch it the core artistic merits are: - highly original, relevant and thought-trough storytelling using mirroring techniques rhyming & variation methods - essentially a 3-act play: Act 1 Daylight (exposition, colorful heyday of republic), Act 2 Twilight (beginning of the end, the shroud has fallen), Act 3 Darkness (fall of liberty and values) - The only saga that shows the systematic corruption and final downfall of liberty, democracy and of the heroes, and the rise of demagogues (whereas 99% of genre films are play-it-save, happy ending stories about nothing by corporate committee) - iconic art design in terms of vehicles, architecture, miniatures and costumes - William's acclaimed scores (and Burt's sound design) - great world building and extension of the lore (Sith, balance concept, Couuscant etc) - quotable and meme-able dialogue (there is always a bigger fish, this is how liberty dies with thunderous applause etc etc) Also, it pushed the new technologies like hardly any other trilogy. Beutiful.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 6, 2020 18:17:44 GMT
Good posting/thoughts. Instead of paying for Episode 9, I actually stayed home and rewatched the PT recently as well (the OT is next, but I may throw on Rogue One before that). I like the pacing of Episode 1. We get to see a lot of new planets/species over a short period of time. Naboo was a great addition to Lucas' galaxy, in my opinion. I think it is probably my favorite from the PT (although the lava planet of Mustafar finally being used from Ralph McQuarrie's fantastic concept art from the 70's is fantastic too). The funny thing about this movie is that I remember being in the theater with the first, sold-out midnight showing in my city and people laughing repeatedly at Jar Jar. They loved him. It wasn't until shortly before Episode 2's release that I first heard complaints about the character. People did grow to despise him haha. I think if they had used a different actor for Binks' voice (perhaps someone with a deeper voice), Jar Jar may have been received differently. Maybe. I liked how even though the Hutts aren't in the movie very much, they're still talked about as having strong control on Tatooine. Duel of Fates is still my favorite song from the PT. Lucas replacing the atrocious Episode 1 Yoda puppet with CGI Yoda was a much better change from the theatrical cut. The grappling hook on the blasters is still silly to me, but a very minor nitpick on my part. Episode 2 is still fine. I like the business on Coruscant. I still thoroughly enjoy Yoda's lightsaber duel. I agree with others that Dooku wasn't nearly as memorable as Maul (sorry Christopher Lee). The latter should have been the apprentice to Sidious for the whole trilogy until Darth Vader emerged. It's interesting to note that Benicio Del Toro was originally cast to play Maul. He dropped out of the role after Lucas cut most of Maul's lines from the script. The Jedi coming into the arena is still a great moment (I remember the audience in the theater cheering over that). I was surprised to find I liked Jango Fett more than in the past. I don't think Boba should have been in the movie (sorry Daniel Logan), maybe just a quick clue that Jango intended to have a son. Episode 3 is still my favorite episode of the PT. The opening space battle is my favorite of Lucas' movies. Hayden gives a much better performance and his 70's hairstyle is a nice transition towards the OT. I like Bail Organa gets a slightly larger role in the movie. I would have liked Anakin and Obi-Wan to have at least 2 more scenes together. It's kind of jolting how Obi-Wan go from saying goodbye to one another after Anakin's issues with the Council, and then they don't see each other again until they're about to duel towards the end of the movie. Order 66 is greatly executed and John William's accompanied score sets the mood for it wonderfully. Grevious is ok...I do like that the character's cough in the movie is George Lucas' actual own cough because he was sick during a portion of making Episode 3 and it was suggested (probably by Ben Burtt) they use him for it. I still really enjoy the whole confrontation between Windu and the other Jedi when they go to arrest Palpatine. It would have been interesting to see a five-way duel go on just a little longer between all of them. Palpatine dispatched them just a little too quickly (perhaps that was the point though) for the audience to fully enjoy it, in my opinion. The same problem goes for Grevious losing his multiple lightsabers too quickly during his duel with Obi-Wan...if they're going to include multiple force users/lightsabers, let's see them fully utilized! Anyway, update when you've rewatched the others. I agree the pacing im TPM is well balanced. There is no action sequence that is not needed, one of the complaints I have about these newer movies where it feels like they put in action set pieces every 20 minutes. I would rather sacrifice these spots for story and character progression, which TPM has in spades. One of the criticisms I've come to learn is that the main characters all appear to be talking heads, reciting lines in a monotone fashion. I can see where that complaint comes from, but it doesn't bother me. I accept that Jedis are serene individuals with high degrees of discipline and restraint so the style of dialogue delivery worked fine for me. Same with Queen Amadala, she is meant to come across as a queen and leader whose in control. But when she is talking out of role, to little Anakin for example her style changed to be more natural talking one and thats cool. At the end of the day, for me I really liked Obi-Wan, Qui-Gon, R2, Senator Palpitine, Anakins mother, Maul and I didn't mind Padme, Anakin and Jar Jar. The story was intriguing and kept me hooked until the end with nice little twists along the way. This is almost opposite to tRoS, where the only character I connected with was Kylo and the story was pretty mundane, possessing no aura of mystery (why did they have to reveal Palpitine was the boss straight away?) I just watched Attack of the Clones too for the first time ever. Its pretty good but I would say TPM is better. AotC's pacing was more akin to a slow burn and at times it did drag. The action set pieces to me weren't that interesting such as the asteroid chase scene and the metal factory sequence. Visually it was fine but I didnt feel any weight of consequence, perhaps too much CGI was used. There are a few hokey dialogue, line delivery and shaky acting, mainly by Hayden but he was fine for the majority of his on screen appearance. The love story was okay, have no major complaints. The seeds that are planted to show how Anakin eventually rejects the Jedi are very cleverly inserted throughout the story which I liked. I hoped Count Dooku would have been in it more and the end duel with Yoda is the best moment. Overall its still watchable, a step down from Episode 1. I still prefer it to any of the sequels though because as a trilogy there is clear direction where the trilogy is heading.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 6, 2020 18:26:28 GMT
This trilogy is more than the sum of its individual parts; one of the few examples of true auteur filmmaking in blockbuster cinema. It is may be an acquired taste due to it's complex political backdrop and worldbuilding but this is the very thing that makes it unique in the genre. If you have to pitch it the core artistic merits are: - highly original, relevant and thought-trough storytelling using mirroring techniques rhyming & variation methods - essentially a 3-act play: Act 1 Daylight (exposition, colorful heyday of republic), Act 2 Twilight (beginning of the end, the shroud has fallen), Act 3 Darkness (fall of liberty and values) - The only saga that shows the systematic corruption and final downfall of liberty, democracy and of the heroes, and the rise of demagogues (whereas 99% of genre films are play-it-save, happy ending stories about nothing by corporate committee) This is exactly why I was hooked to the story because its so believable. The terrific payoff of world building brought through by political discourse reinforced with the impressive diverse visuals of citizens, planets and architecture. You could make this type of story based on earth with humans and it would be pretty boring but using Star Wars as a backdrop to this creates a whole new level of wonder. Its strange because I've seen Lucas say that this franchise was meant to be for kids. Either he was lying or his expectation of what children can digest from movie storytelling was greater than it is nowaday.
|
|
|
Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 6, 2020 20:06:47 GMT
This trilogy is more than the sum of its individual parts; one of the few examples of true auteur filmmaking in blockbuster cinema. It is may be an acquired taste due to it's complex political backdrop and worldbuilding but this is the very thing that makes it unique in the genre. If you have to pitch it the core artistic merits are: - highly original, relevant and thought-trough storytelling using mirroring techniques rhyming & variation methods - essentially a 3-act play: Act 1 Daylight (exposition, colorful heyday of republic), Act 2 Twilight (beginning of the end, the shroud has fallen), Act 3 Darkness (fall of liberty and values) - The only saga that shows the systematic corruption and final downfall of liberty, democracy and of the heroes, and the rise of demagogues (whereas 99% of genre films are play-it-save, happy ending stories about nothing by corporate committee) This is exactly why I was hooked to the story because its so believable. The terrific payoff of world building brought through by political discourse reinforced with the impressive diverse visuals of citizens, planets and architecture. You could make this type of story based on earth with humans and it would be pretty boring but using Star Wars as a backdrop to this creates a whole new level of wonder. Its strange because I've seen Lucas say that this franchise was meant to be for kids. Either he was lying or his expectation of what children can digest from movie storytelling was greater than it is nowaday. yeah, the films are meant for the inner child of all ages. As for the political machinations in the PT, children (and many adult fans) in my experience usually do not understand those. These are more meant to give the saga a political and institutional backbone (which was important for Lucas) and are aimed to intrigue puzzle solvers, theorists and intellectual nerds amongst the fandom. I certainly love those aspects.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jan 7, 2020 0:38:31 GMT
EP 1 remains my favorite Star Wars film of all time. Yeah, I know, shoot me.
But hey, it had Darth Maul, it had Qui Gon, it showcased Natalie Portman in her gorgeous prime, it was the first time we saw a young(er) Yoda or Mace Windu, it's the first time we the Jedi Council, we got the young Obi Wan, it has the best 2 on 1 lightsaber fight, it's one of the few movies you don't have idiotic stormtroopers.... there was a lot to love about that movie.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 7, 2020 2:03:19 GMT
EP 1 remains my favorite Star Wars film of all time. Yeah, I know, shoot me. But hey, it had Darth Maul, it had Qui Gon, it showcased Natalie Portman in her gorgeous prime, it was the first time we saw a young(er) Yoda or Mace Windu, it's the first time we the Jedi Council, we got the young Obi Wan, it has the best 2 on 1 lightsaber fight, it's one of the few movies you don't have idiotic stormtroopers.... there was a lot to love about that movie. No need to apologize for liking TPM. Hopefuly it gets more appreciation now the landscape of Star Wars is in full view. Yes it had many likeable characters although I wouldnt say Natalie Portman was in her beauty prime quite until Episode 2 (wasnt she like 14 in Phantom Menace lol). I love Qui Gon Jin the most out of all the movies, his fearless and composed father figure-mentor role is so inspirational.
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Jan 8, 2020 23:30:19 GMT
I last re-watched ROTS after TFA. As much as the prequels do have flaws, they're actually still the richest & most densely populated eye & ear candies. Sure that makes them virtually animated films. And? The way this scene for instance opens...
I think it's good that George Lucas for better or worse had carte blanche to fully produce his own trilogy. Sure they're scarred a bit, at least we don't have to wonder had they never been.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 9, 2020 20:30:49 GMT
I last re-watched ROTS after TFA. As much as the prequels do have flaws, they're actually still the richest & most densely populated eye & ear candies. Sure that makes them virtually animated films. And? The way this scene for instance opens... I think it's good that George Lucas for better or worse had carte blanche to fully produce his own trilogy. Sure they're scarred a bit, at least we don't have to wonder had they never been. Visually they are a delight. A mixture of cgi and practical worlds and alien characters supported by a memorable emphatic score. Just watching that opera house scene it oozes personality and originality. You could almost watch it without the dialogue.
|
|
Jason143
Junior Member
@glaceon
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 610
|
Post by Jason143 on Jan 9, 2020 20:31:44 GMT
Attack of the Clones is better than any of the Star Wars films Disney has put out so far. Too bad the other two prequels are all worse than all the Disney films except for Solo.... I missed this post. Thats a curious choice to have Episode 2 so highly favored. May I ask why?
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Jan 9, 2020 20:56:12 GMT
Attack of the Clones is better than any of the Star Wars films Disney has put out so far. Too bad the other two prequels are all worse than all the Disney films except for Solo.... I missed this post. Thats a curious choice to have Episode 2 so highly favored. May I ask why? AOTC, in my opinion, is the only prequel that really feels like a Star Wars movie. It has the right pacing. It shows the start of the story we all want to see. I also feel the love story is fine as it's depicting two people getting together who have no experience and have no business being together. Lucas showed restraint with new effects as well. The Yoda fight is short and doesn't go too far, the duel isn't over the top, and the droids don't do things we don't think they should be able to. It's hard to explain, but I feel Lucas got the balance of pushing forward without going to far the best in this one.
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jan 10, 2020 22:09:45 GMT
Attack of the Clones is better than any of the Star Wars films Disney has put out so far. Too bad the other two prequels are all worse than all the Disney films except for Solo.... Heck, I rate all the prequel movies higher than the Disney movies other than Rogue One.
|
|
|
Post by shannondegroot on Mar 31, 2020 23:35:40 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Feologild Oakes on Mar 31, 2020 23:37:59 GMT
I have never understood the hate so many people seem to have for this movie, its really not that bad.
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on Apr 2, 2020 20:51:43 GMT
Jar Jar is the opposite of funny and the acting is awkward at times, but it's by far the best prequel. No crappy green screen environments, the best lightsaber fights, and some of the better characters in that trilogy.
|
|
Jan El Señor
Junior Member
I love everyone.
@janelsenor
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 1,247
|
Post by Jan El Señor on Apr 2, 2020 21:57:35 GMT
No crappy green screen environments Yep. They used blue screen environments instead....
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on Apr 3, 2020 14:14:42 GMT
No crappy green screen environments Yep. They used blue screen environments instead.... Does blue screen "work" better? Because there's a distinct difference in the look between Episode I and II and III. It's extremely obvious.
There's a lack of realness in the other 2. It's similar to the Transformers series in that they got worse/less realistic looking as the series went on. I know you like AOTC a lot, and that's perfectly fine, but you have to admit something looks off about those latter two movies.
|
|