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Post by CrepedCrusader on Jan 6, 2020 18:47:43 GMT
Not sure at which point spoiler warnings become unnecessary, but here it is: SPOILER WARNING if you haven't seen the Rise of Skywalker.
A common criticism of the ending of the Rise of Skywalker is that things gets confusing because Palpatine's plans keep shifting. Did he want Kylo to kill Rey or not? If he wants her to strike him down, then why is she trying to steal her force essence? I was listening to Joseph Scrimshaw's latest Force Center episode (the episode overall is great, dealing with Rey's lineage, and why it doesn't take anything away from her character), and he put it perfectly. Palpatine's shifting plans weren't "bad writing", but they showed that Palpatine always has back-up plans, and back-up plans for his back-up plans.
Plan A: Have Kylo kill Rey, eliminating her threat to him, and then rule through Kylo. When Kylo fails...
Plan B: Goad Rey into killing him so that he can possess her through some sort of creepy Sith magic. When she and Kylo stand against him...
Plan C: Steal their force dyad essence to rejuvenate himself.
That's Palps being Palps, always with another trick up his sleeve.
If you want to hear the episode for yourself, search for the Force Center podcast on your podcast app of choice. (I listened on the CastBox app.)
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 6, 2020 19:48:59 GMT
good. good. But you know as a rule of thumb it's still bad writing
(i) if you have to write and elaborate the script/plot FOR the writers
(ii) if the plot beats consist of a string of random "Ands" and not of "Therefores"
(iii) if plan are not based in common sense and cause & effect, but in random "a wizard did it" deus ex machina" trickery
(iv) if the plot results in logical holes, contrivences and conveniences
All that applies here. Why would Palps want to kill the mightiest Sue in the galaxy who is his BLOOD and a perfect vessel for him in the first place (Looooong have ay waited... for my grandchild to come home...). Why use the blatant village idiot Crylo Ben who got his ass handed by her every time? Why was his essence not transferre to Rey when she finally killed him with his own lightning?
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Jan 6, 2020 20:03:01 GMT
good. good. But you know as a rule of thumb it's still bad writing (i) if you have to write and elaborate the script/plot FOR the writers (ii) if the plot beats consist of a string of random "Ands" and not of "Therefores" (iii) if plan are not based in common sense and cause & effect, but in random "a wizard did it" deus ex machina" trickery (iv) if the plot results in logical holes, contrivences and conveniences All that applies here. Why would Palps want to kill the mightiest Sue in the galaxy who is his BLOOD and a perfect vessel for him in the first place (Looooong have ay waited... for my grandchild to come home...). Why use the blatant village idiot Crylo Ben who got his ass handed by her every time? Why was his essence not transferre to Rey when she finally killed him with his own lightning? In answer to the last question: she didn't strike him down in anger. Also, she really didn't strike him down at all, as it was his own force lightning that killed him. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 6, 2020 20:12:20 GMT
good. good. But you know as a rule of thumb it's still bad writing (i) if you have to write and elaborate the script/plot FOR the writers (ii) if the plot beats consist of a string of random "Ands" and not of "Therefores" (iii) if plan are not based in common sense and cause & effect, but in random "a wizard did it" deus ex machina" trickery (iv) if the plot results in logical holes, contrivences and conveniences All that applies here. Why would Palps want to kill the mightiest Sue in the galaxy who is his BLOOD and a perfect vessel for him in the first place (Looooong have ay waited... for my grandchild to come home...). Why use the blatant village idiot Crylo Ben who got his ass handed by her every time? Why was his essence not transferre to Rey when she finally killed him with his own lightning? In answer to the last question: she did strike him down in anger. Also, she really didn't strike him down at all, as it was his own force lightning that killed him. thanks I thus refer writing rules (i) to (iv). M aybe you should have written this film, would be less of a mess. . Also why Palps he not stop force shooting himself in the face? If I pee against the wind i will usually stop…? Is he that senile? How about the First Order that still rules supreme? We only saw Palps new fleet destroyed, the First order is still ruling the galaxy. Will this be Ep X...?
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Post by CrepedCrusader on Jan 6, 2020 21:08:28 GMT
In answer to the last question: she did strike him down in anger. Also, she really didn't strike him down at all, as it was his own force lightning that killed him. thanks I thus refer writing rules (i) to (iv). M aybe you should have written this film, would be less of a mess. . Also why Palps he not stop force shooting himself in the face? If I pee against the wind i will usually stop…? Is he that senile? How about the First Order that still rules supreme? We only saw Palps new fleet destroyed, the First order is still ruling the galaxy. Will this be Ep X...? *Palpatine not being able to stop is odd, but they did the same thing in RotS in the showdown with Windu. Perhaps there's an in-universe explanation. *At the end of the film we see First Order Star Destroyers going down. On Wookiepedia, there are references to uprisings on Endor, Jakku, and Cloud City. Much like the Imperial Remnants following the destruction of the second Death Star, there are still forces out there but, with the top command echelon being dead, they are like a snake with its head cut off. |
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jan 6, 2020 21:52:12 GMT
In answer to the last question: she did strike him down in anger. Also, she really didn't strike him down at all, as it was his own force lightning that killed him. thanks I thus refer writing rules (i) to (iv). M aybe you should have written this film, would be less of a mess. . Also why Palps he not stop force shooting himself in the face? If I pee against the wind i will usually stop…? Is he that senile? How about the First Order that still rules supreme? We only saw Palps new fleet destroyed, the First order is still ruling the galaxy. Will this be Ep X...? I mean, you could ask the same thing about Sith when Mace Windu was deflecting Palpatine's lighting...
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Post by sdrew13163 on Jan 6, 2020 22:07:51 GMT
thanks I thus refer writing rules (i) to (iv). M aybe you should have written this film, would be less of a mess. . Also why Palps he not stop force shooting himself in the face? If I pee against the wind i will usually stop…? Is he that senile? How about the First Order that still rules supreme? We only saw Palps new fleet destroyed, the First order is still ruling the galaxy. Will this be Ep X...? *Palpatine not being able to stop is odd, but they did the same thing in RotS in the showdown with Windu. Perhaps there's an in-universe explanation. *At the end of the film we see First Order Star Destroyers going down. On Wookiepedia, there are references to uprisings on Endor, Jakku, and Cloud City. Much like the Imperial Remnants following the destruction of the second Death Star, there are still forces out there but, with the top command echelon being dead, they are like a snake with its head cut off. In RotS it makes sense as to why he doesn’t stop his own lightning. He doesn’t care about the effects on him physically, he just wants Anakin to believe he’s on the verge of death so he’ll take down Windu. Once he does that, he has no choice but to join Palpatine. He essentially killed a Jedi and made it obvious that he can’t live without Padme, so Palpatine must survive. It was intentional manipulation. TRoS makes no sense as to why he wouldn’t stop. He just doesn’t want to admit defeat, I guess? |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 7, 2020 10:20:51 GMT
thanks I thus refer writing rules (i) to (iv). M aybe you should have written this film, would be less of a mess. . Also why Palps he not stop force shooting himself in the face? If I pee against the wind i will usually stop…? Is he that senile? How about the First Order that still rules supreme? We only saw Palps new fleet destroyed, the First order is still ruling the galaxy. Will this be Ep X...? I mean, you could ask the same thing about Sith when Mace Windu was deflecting Palpatine's lighting... No, you could not...
1. Palpatine DID stop his force lighting when he got hurt severely, and he was then lying there helplessly begging to be spared by M Windu.
2. The pathetic whining was to push Anakin to turn against Windu.That was the point.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 7, 2020 10:41:28 GMT
thanks I thus refer writing rules (i) to (iv). M aybe you should have written this film, would be less of a mess. . Also why Palps he not stop force shooting himself in the face? If I pee against the wind i will usually stop…? Is he that senile? How about the First Order that still rules supreme? We only saw Palps new fleet destroyed, the First order is still ruling the galaxy. Will this be Ep X...? *Palpatine not being able to stop is odd, but they did the same thing in RotS in the showdown with Windu. Perhaps there's an in-universe explanation. there is not, in RotS Palpatine stopped his attack after he hurt himself, and then begged for his life, that wa the point. He did not continue shootimg until killing himself.
Maybe in TROS he suffered from some geriatric disease, like badly aged writing?
most convenient, so the entire galaxy got rid of the supremely ruling First Order just en passant, without much ado?
Who destroyed them, the Ewoks...from the ground with arrows? The entire civil fleet was attacking Palp's fleet after all. I mean these are "thousands of star systems".
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Post by dazz on Jan 7, 2020 11:57:36 GMT
good. good. But you know as a rule of thumb it's still bad writing (i) if you have to write and elaborate the script/plot FOR the writers (ii) if the plot beats consist of a string of random "Ands" and not of "Therefores" (iii) if plan are not based in common sense and cause & effect, but in random "a wizard did it" deus ex machina" trickery (iv) if the plot results in logical holes, contrivences and conveniences All that applies here. Why would Palps want to kill the mightiest Sue in the galaxy who is his BLOOD and a perfect vessel for him in the first place (Looooong have ay waited... for my grandchild to come home...). Why use the blatant village idiot Crylo Ben who got his ass handed by her every time? Why was his essence not transferre to Rey when she finally killed him with his own lightning? In answer to the last question: she didn't strike him down in anger. Also, she really didn't strike him down at all, as it was his own force lightning that killed him. This sounds like a silly cop out, wouldn't that make more sense in a lightsabre duel? like say they make a theme of it early in the film of Rey overthinking in her training, that the key is to not to think but to act, letting the force guide her, plus rely on her training which should have started to become instinct by now, so during a duel with Palpatine where he should win, you have a weakened Ben try to help, he gets skewered but one of his last acts is to cause a momentary distraction to Palpatine and Rey just using the force and her training instinctively lands a counter strike to end Palpatine?
I dunno but diverting lightning back to it's source seems more intentional, especially how they did it and she didn't look to be thinking about puppies and rainbows as she ended him, also find it funny that they kind of a copy the end of Wonder Woman with it, though Diana does strike Ares down a lot less angrily which again is kind of funny.
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Post by dazz on Jan 7, 2020 12:45:23 GMT
*Palpatine not being able to stop is odd, but they did the same thing in RotS in the showdown with Windu. Perhaps there's an in-universe explanation. there is not, in RotS Palpatine stopped his attack after he hurt himself, and then begged for his life, that wa the point. He did not continue shootimg until killing himself.
Maybe in TROS he suffered from some geriatric disease, like badly aged writing?
most convenient, so the entire galaxy got rid of the supremely ruling First Order just en passant, without much ado?
Who destroyed them, the Ewoks...from the ground with arrows? The entire civil fleet was attacking Palp's fleet after all. I mean these are "thousands of star systems".
The thing with Mace is that then it kind of made sense, Palps could have believed he could overwhelm the Jedi Master and he was just wrong, and he then used this as a ploy to draw Anakin in, but with Rey he should be wary of such action as he knows what it cost him before, especially with Rey channelling ALL the Jedi including Mace Windu, for a genius mastermind Palps is pretty fucking dumb in this instance right?
And yes I was the Ewoks, it is always the Ewoks, never underestimate cuddly murder bears.
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