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Post by ck100 on Jan 24, 2020 0:47:02 GMT
The show makes its debut today on CBS All Access. Any of you watched the premiere episode yet? If you have, what did you think of it?
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Jan 24, 2020 0:49:44 GMT
The show makes its debut today on CBS All Access. Any of you watched the premiere episode yet? If you have, what did you think of it? , I'm NOT going to PAY to watch it. ESPECIALLY since it's CRAP. I've SEEN one episode of 'Discovery' and that was/IS CRAP. SO IS THIS!
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Jan 24, 2020 22:11:46 GMT
Well Patrick Stewart is front & center in the new series , and his acting is terrific . We should be thankfull that the Franchise are willing to invest in what is essentially a continuation of The Next Generation , and for promoting a non-ageist series agenda . Yes in a way , this is the return of the magnificent 7 (of TNG), and it looks like this might be the theme of the show . There are younger actors , for viewers in their 20's and 30's , to follow . But for older fans , this is a sentimental journey , and the old timers again have been called to save the day .
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Post by theravenking on Jan 25, 2020 15:39:23 GMT
Since Patrick Stewart has said, that the series will be very political and Anti-Trump and woke I have very little interest in watching it.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jan 25, 2020 16:08:59 GMT
When i heard they where going to make it, i knew that i would never watch it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 16:53:34 GMT
My big issue with this show is that it's more "anti Trek".
Star Trek has always been the optimistic show. Unlike most sci-fi, Trek depicts a future where the major problems of humanity have been overcome. The Federation is more or less a utopian society, a place where everyone is comfortable, everyone can do what they want, where the challenge of life is not to survive, but to reach your full potential and live your best life.
But not any more. Under Kurtzman, everything has to be the GrimDark version of itself. So now we have to have a Federation and Starfleet that has turned its back on the universe, become suspicious and paranoid. The mission isn't to explore and learn, to confront issues and problems that are 'out there' - all the enemies and problems must come from within, to demonstrate that your society is bad and wrong.
If I wanted that I could watch Westworld, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, Dark Matter, Blade Runner, Altered Carbon... pretty much ANY other sci-fi show, because that's literally the most generic easy thing to do in sci-fi. And NOT doing that is exactly what made Trek different, most especially in TNG, the most optimistic Trek there was.
And from what I've read about the series, it's only going to get worse. Much, much, worse.
Do I hate this show? No. Mostly it makes me feel sad. It could have been a real sequel, it could have been a worthy successor, it could have been a great course correction. It's chosen to be none of those things. Watching it felt like watching your house burn down.
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Jan 26, 2020 0:07:38 GMT
My big issue with this show is that it's more "anti Trek". Star Trek has always been the optimistic show. Unlike most sci-fi, Trek depicts a future where the major problems of humanity have been overcome. The Federation is more or less a utopian society, a place where everyone is comfortable, everyone can do what they want, where the challenge of life is not to survive, but to reach your full potential and live your best life. But not any more. Under Kurtzman, everything has to be the GrimDark version of itself. So now we have to have a Federation and Starfleet that has turned its back on the universe, become suspicious and paranoid. The mission isn't to explore and learn, to confront issues and problems that are 'out there' - all the enemies and problems must come from within, to demonstrate that your society is bad and wrong. If I wanted that I could watch Westworld, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, Dark Matter, Blade Runner, Altered Carbon... pretty much ANY other sci-fi show, because that's literally the most generic easy thing to do in sci-fi. And NOT doing that is exactly what made Trek different, most especially in TNG, the most optimistic Trek there was. And from what I've read about the series, it's only going to get worse. Much, much, worse. Do I hate this show? No. Mostly it makes me feel sad. It could have been a real sequel, it could have been a worthy successor, it could have been a great course correction. It's chosen to be none of those things. Watching it felt like watching your house burn down. Well said Graham ! Yes all modern commercial sci-fi seems to work to a similar format , 'the situation has gone very bad , and some tormented hero/es have to fight to make things right at a terrible cost to themselves and everyone' . All the mainstream shows use this theme . Even the new Lost in Space , where all the good people are doubting themselves because the mission is facing total disaster , and in their midst is a lying serial killer (Dr Smith) who maybe wants to be good , but keeps dispatching anyone who can expose her . And believe it or not , The Expanse and The Orville are the same too . This is because the Hollywood Mafia (there's another name for them) who finance all these shows will only hire or promote other producers or directors who will agree to their terms or view . That's why I spend some time looking for virtually unheard sci-fi movies and shows made by producers/directors who don't like to be compromised .
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Jan 26, 2020 0:10:39 GMT
When i heard they where going to make it, i knew that i would never watch it. Why is that , Feologild ? I'm interested in your argument for this ?
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jan 26, 2020 0:14:30 GMT
When i heard they where going to make it, i knew that i would never watch it. Why is that , Feologild ? I'm interested in your argument for this ? I don`t have an argument for it, i just have no interest in watching it.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 26, 2020 2:46:42 GMT
I'm giving it a chance, just as I'm (trying) to give Discovery a chance. On the one hand, Discovery is exactly what it looked like from the outside, a flash, no substance. It's basically if Battlestar Galactica fucked Starship Troopers and the subsequent love child were now a moody teenager going through an emo phase. I waited until it was out on DVD - hell, I waited until season 2 was on DVD; because I was not motivated enough to pay for CBS All Access for STD. I'm still working my way through season 2 and have very little ambition to continue. For Picard though, the temptation to see it before reading spoilers won out over my trepidation over what the show looked like; or the extra cost of subscribing, temporarily, to CBS All Access. I'm taking a calculating tact; I waited a couple of days after the first episode came out so that when I signed up for the free week trial, it would encompass the first two episodes. And since I started my one week trial today, I won't have to start my paid subscription until February 1st, meaning I'll only be subscribing for February and March; assuming of course that the episodes keep my interest to warrant seeing it through. I'm planning on going with the premium subscription, because if I'm paying to see it either way, fuck commercials. All in all $20 to watch the full first season isn't terrible; and is more a convenience charge of seeing it now versus waiting to get it from the library when it's out on DVD. As for the first episode itself - honestly, I didn't hate it. I went in with a lot of ambivalence about what to expect from this series; and I'm also another person is sick and tired of all the dark and dreary bullshit passing itself off as drama, which a lot of the teasers seemed to hint at. But right from the start, there was something about the tone that felt a little bit more familiar to the old Star Trek shows; not cinematically, of course, that's still an adjustment, but not strictly a bad one, just different. To me at least it didn't feel like more of Discovery, it didn't feel, so far, like it had its head up its own ass. It's still early though, of course; it's only one episode in a ten part serial story. And I do lament that. I miss more episodic story telling, where episodes were allowed to have a beginning, middle and end. It doesn't have to be only episodic stories; a lot of my favorite shows are the ones that perfectly balanced the one-offs and the season long arcs. Liked that the mystery woman turned out to be Data's daughter, after a fashion; and that they seemed to incorporate Bruce Maddox as being behind her and her sister's development. I'm not a huge fan of the whole plot line of synthetics attacked Mars, killing so many people; so now all synthetics are banned. The rationale is highly dubious; and you'd think the Vulcans would have at least objected to the logic applied here, lumping all of a certain type of life form, in this case artificial life, into the same category of threat... it's not logical. Also, the whole thing at the end about how "they're made in pairs" kind of made me shake my head. Like, why? What sort of heretofore unmentioned law of whatever ludicrous engineering method would require you make two synthetic lifeforms instead of one? That just seemed like a hackneyed plot contrivance, that allowed them to seemingly kill off a character in a surprise turn in the story, when it seemed like they were going to be so central to the story....and then, ta-da, they're "back", sort of; even though they're technically someone else. It certainly has some intriguing implications, especially for the fate of Voyager's Doctor. The vilification of what is essentially an entire race of people is, I suppose, timely; which is a very Star Trek theme, but like others have said, is it done the way one might expect Star Trek to tackle an issue, giving people hope? It certainly wouldn't be the first time Star Trek tackled a social topic in a heavy handed way; and so far this feels less cringeworthy than some of those other instances. (I'm looking at you, "The High Ground") One thing I noticed that really stood out in a weird way to me, was how the TNG and movie era uniforms... just didn't seem to hang right on either Patrick or Brent. Maybe it had to do something with the convoluted licensing situation that existed before the CBS/Viacom re-merger, but they looked more like mediocre fan-made uniforms, rather than the well fitted uniforms they used to have.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jan 26, 2020 5:49:28 GMT
My big issue with this show is that it's more "anti Trek". Star Trek has always been the optimistic show. Unlike most sci-fi, Trek depicts a future where the major problems of humanity have been overcome. The Federation is more or less a utopian society, a place where everyone is comfortable, everyone can do what they want, where the challenge of life is not to survive, but to reach your full potential and live your best life. But not any more. Under Kurtzman, everything has to be the GrimDark version of itself. So now we have to have a Federation and Starfleet that has turned its back on the universe, become suspicious and paranoid. The mission isn't to explore and learn, to confront issues and problems that are 'out there' - all the enemies and problems must come from within, to demonstrate that your society is bad and wrong. If I wanted that I could watch Westworld, Battlestar Galactica, Babylon 5, Dark Matter, Blade Runner, Altered Carbon... pretty much ANY other sci-fi show, because that's literally the most generic easy thing to do in sci-fi. And NOT doing that is exactly what made Trek different, most especially in TNG, the most optimistic Trek there was. And from what I've read about the series, it's only going to get worse. Much, much, worse. Do I hate this show? No. Mostly it makes me feel sad. It could have been a real sequel, it could have been a worthy successor, it could have been a great course correction. It's chosen to be none of those things. Watching it felt like watching your house burn down. I don't know I felt that DS9 started deconstructing the Utopian aspects of Federation. Introducing people abandoned by Federation fighting for their freedom. People disillusioned with the Federation turning to Terrorism. Shadow factions inside Starfleet Section 31. That the facade of Utopian life is built on the work of people willing to do the dirty work and distasteful work in the shadows. That way people can believe it's a Altruistic Utopia and don't see what they do.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jan 26, 2020 6:20:16 GMT
Sisko destroying inhabitable planets to flush out The Maquis. The discord inside the Federation might've started in TNG, my memory is failing, but DS9 turned it up.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jan 26, 2020 6:31:07 GMT
Also p.o.v. that the Utopia the Humans brag about is just window dressing propped up by technology that allowed us to feed, cloth, and shelter people cheaply. We are still brutes, just well fed/content ones.
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Post by movieliker on Jan 26, 2020 20:27:44 GMT
I pay the five dollars a month for CBS All Access because initially I wanted to watch Star Trek Discovery. But I found it unwatchable. I really tried but it was like MTV's "The Real World" and Bravo's "The Real Housewives of . . . " rolled into one.
I still have it. I watched episode 1 of "Picard". I thought it was good. It's only one episode. But I will try and stick with it as long as it keeps my interest.
I thought Season 1 of "The Expanse" was incredibly slow and boring. Season 2 was good. I'm having trouble sticking with Season 3.
I agree with some of the complaints about the outer space formula being things always falling apart from the inside. I personally would rather they take the route of exploring farther out, discovering new worlds and species. But maybe I'm alone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 21:51:15 GMT
Couple of reviews I thought I'd share
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Post by Prime etc. on Jan 27, 2020 22:20:43 GMT
I don't know I felt that DS9 started deconstructing the Utopian aspects of Federation. Introducing people abandoned by Federation fighting for their freedom. People disillusioned with the Federation turning to Terrorism. Shadow factions inside Starfleet Section 31. That the facade of Utopian life is built on the work of people willing to do the dirty work and distasteful work in the shadows. That way people can believe it's a Altruistic Utopia and don't see what they do.
Originally Starfleet and the Federation (the UN basically) was a positive ideal--the future was harmonious and diverse, tolerant...
ST 6-the Undiscovered Country implies that Federation officials were less trustworthy than the Klingons though.
But stories designed around social messages run into problems--because the game becomes how to make the messages more and more revolutionary. The ultimate aim is revolution-deconstruction of the entire system.
But Star Trek ran into problems with human characters since they were supposed to be devoid of emotions and preferences--thus DS9 became the mist interesting since most of the characters were aliens. Interesting that the Federation ends up having all these sinister elements while maintaining a facade of tolerance and understanding and multicultural outreach (since every alien species had their own homeworld-but Earth was an airport for all of them).
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Jan 28, 2020 0:28:01 GMT
I think Star Trek Picard will be okay , basically an adventure/action series , which of course all new Star Trek is , beginning with Star Trek (2009) . Anything after 2009 , is it's own hybrid incarnation of canon , and not really tying in closely with the movies , series or books before 2009 . I have a lot of the books , and have spent years and years cross-referencing them , and unfortunately for all their depth , nuance and creativity , their knowledge and world-creation are pointless in the Franchise's obsession with current trending and ratings .
So Star Trek Picard , Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Section 31 is what it is , action-oriented series in the Dark/Grim style of the new Directors and New Producers , with little relationship to the old Star Trek before 2009 . You take what you can get !
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Post by movieliker on Jan 28, 2020 0:36:42 GMT
Couple of reviews I thought I'd share I think it's a generational thing. What Star Trek fans wanted in the 60s, 70s and 80s, is different than what the producers think the target audience wants nowadays. They see conflict, good versus evil, and evil versus evil in today's video games, TV shows and movies. And they don't think the old theme of social harmony will sell anymore. And --- it doesn't fit into the money people's formulas. So, you get today's themes squooshed into Star Trek uniforms. Absolutely no imagination whatsoever. 👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎 Remember, the target audience is teens and twenty-somethings. If you aren't in those groups, you are going to be disappointed.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 28, 2020 0:56:28 GMT
Couple of reviews I thought I'd share Okay, watching the top review, I want to comment - I get that some of their remarks are just meant for the snarky entertainment value; I can appreciate that, there are times where I can be intentionally obtuse for the sake of a joke. But like, if the one guy honestly couldn't understand the person saying "daughter" then yeah, he should probably get his hearing checked. Dahj is an odd sounding name, but it's not that difficult to remember. I'll admit, I thought it was "Dosh," but that's a minor distinction. More so, they gloss over the fact that they explain in the episode why she looks like the girl in the painting; which is that Bruce intentionally modeled her after the painting. I also thought it was pretty clear that the people who beamed into Dahj's apartment were initially using their device to see if she had been "activated" from the sense of knowing that she was an android; and confirmed that she had not been. Not sure what they thought they were accomplishing with the bag. Obviously that wouldn't be used to knock her out, despite the dialog; that's more a convention for disorientation, so a person can't tell where they're going. But if they were presumably going to beam her out, it's not like she'd be able to tell where she was without the bag. The guys in the review video keep saying they should have stunned her or knocked her out, but since they knew she was a synthetic, could she even be stunned or tranquilized using any conventional methods? Working under the assumption that if she hadn't yet been "activated" she'd respond as any other ordinary human would, keeping her disoriented would arguably be the next best thing. It's perhaps a little more convenient that she could fight as well as she did, without being able to see and without being fully activated. The Romulans have often arguably been an allegory to the US' relationship with Russia; though they might be said of the Klingons and Cardassians, but there's always been a Cold War element in their relationship. That changed to some degree during the Dominion War, thanks to Sisko's shady dealings, but who's to say what the post war relationship would be? No doubt some might hold out hope for relations to continue in a more positive direction following the war, but factions in either camp, the Federation or the Romulan Empire, might be inclined to tap the brakes or even go back to how things were. I mean, look no further than the US and Russia fighting on the same side during World War II; it was an alliance of convenience, but that didn't last once their mutual enemy was subdued and if anything relations worsened, leading to the Cold War. Maybe the Romulans got a little comfortable with some of the worlds they annexed during the war and didn't want to give them back to whomever had control of them before the war. I did think it was dumb that they claimed Romulus had less than a billion people on the planet. I mean, sure, that makes the evacuation even more difficult, but seriously, a planet with an advanced population with only a few hundred million on the whole planet? I have my own personal theory to explain what happened to the Romulan sun, which goes a bit into the weeds as fan theories goes. From my understand there might have also been an explanation/elaborate backstory that may have been part of Star Trek online, but I also got the impression from what I read online that this episode of Picard may have contradicted some of that.
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Post by movieliker on Jan 28, 2020 1:18:40 GMT
Couple of reviews I thought I'd share Okay, watching the top review, I want to comment - I get that some of their remarks are just meant for the snarky entertainment value; I can appreciate that, there are times where I can be intentionally obtuse for the sake of a joke. But like, if the one guy honestly couldn't understand the person saying "daughter" then yeah, he should probably get his hearing checked. Dahj is an odd sounding name, but it's not that difficult to remember. I'll admit, I thought it was "Dosh," but that's a minor distinction. More so, they gloss over the fact that they explain in the episode why she looks like the girl in the painting; which is that Bruce intentionally modeled her after the painting. I also thought it was pretty clear that the people who beamed into Dahj's apartment were initially using their device to see if she had been "activated" from the sense of knowing that she was an android; and confirmed that she had not been. Not sure what they thought they were accomplishing with the bag. Obviously that wouldn't be used to knock her out, despite the dialog; that's more a convention for disorientation, so a person can't tell where they're going. But if they were presumably going to beam her out, it's not like she'd be able to tell where she was without the bag. The guys in the review video keep saying they should have stunned her or knocked her out, but since they knew she was a synthetic, could she even be stunned or tranquilized using any conventional methods? Working under the assumption that if she hadn't yet been "activated" she'd respond as any other ordinary human would, keeping her disoriented would arguably be the next best thing. It's perhaps a little more convenient that she could fight as well as she did, without being able to see and without being fully activated. The Romulans have often arguably been an allegory to the US' relationship with Russia; though they might be said of the Klingons and Cardassians, but there's always been a Cold War element in their relationship. That changed to some degree during the Dominion War, thanks to Sisko's shady dealings, but who's to say what the post war relationship would be? No doubt some might hold out hope for relations to continue in a more positive direction following the war, but factions in either camp, the Federation or the Romulan Empire, might be inclined to tap the brakes or even go back to how things were.  I mean, look no further than the US and Russia fighting on the same side during World War II; it was an alliance of convenience, but that didn't last once their mutual enemy was subdued and if anything relations worsened, leading to the Cold War. Maybe the Romulans got a little comfortable with some of the worlds they annexed during the war and didn't want to give them back to whomever had control of them before the war. I did think it was dumb that they claimed Romulus had less than a billion people on the planet. I mean, sure, that makes the evacuation even more difficult, but seriously, a planet with an advanced population with only a few hundred million on the whole planet? I have my own personal theory to explain what happened to the Romulan sun, which goes a bit into the weeds as fan theories goes. From my understand there might have also been an explanation/elaborate backstory that may have been part of Star Trek online, but I also got the impression from what I read online that this episode of Picard may have contradicted some of that. I think the guy on the left became too silly and wanting to make silly jokes and laughing like a hyena. I had no problem with the girl's name. I agree with you. The guy on the right must have a hearing problem. I agree with reviewers. The Romulan Empire was advanced and vast enough to handle one exploding star. And stars don't just blow up over night. That process takes thousands or millions of years. I think it is an admittance of lack of imagination that these Star Trek movies and TV shows don't continue with the theme of advancement of science, exploration and discovery. But it's always some problem with character of known species --- vengeance, greed, misunderstanding, etc. People who like science and science fiction like discovery. They are not the typical soap opera fan who gets off on personality conflict. And good versus evil. Or even worse --- evil versus evil. And that is the theme of most movies and TV shows today. As evidenced by MTV's "The Real World" and Bravo's "The Real Housewives of wherever". (And shamefully --- the Democrats versus the Republicans.)
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