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Post by movieliker on Feb 8, 2020 3:15:44 GMT
Anybody know what's up with Raffi? 14 years ago she and Picard were friends working together. 14 years later, she doesn't want to see him, or work with him. Then she doesn't want to go on the mission. Then she shows up unexpectedly but, she's claims she's not on the mission, but just hitching a ride. Then she gives the synth expert a hard time. What's up with her? Are we supposed to know? Are we supposed to find out later? I can state the obvious but I won't , needless to say I think she's very much part of Picard's Team along with the pilot Rios . The assumption is that when Picard resigned from Starfleet , they were both discharged at the same time . And I'm sure there is a longer arc of explanation for them in future episodes . Why would she be upset with Picard because Starfleet discharged them both. They both agreed on the strategy. They were both disagreed with Starfleet.
She's coming across as a big baby.
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Feb 8, 2020 3:28:41 GMT
I can state the obvious but I won't , needless to say I think she's very much part of Picard's Team along with the pilot Rios . The assumption is that when Picard resigned from Starfleet , they were both discharged at the same time . And I'm sure there is a longer arc of explanation for them in future episodes . Why would she be upset with Picard because Starfleet discharged them both. They both agreed on the strategy. They were both disagreed with Starfleet.
She's coming across as a big baby. Raffi has been blacklisted in some way . She has been forced to live as a non-person off-grid . I'm sure more of the backstory of these events will be revealed very soon .
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Post by movieliker on Feb 8, 2020 3:44:36 GMT
Why would she be upset with Picard because Starfleet discharged them both. They both agreed on the strategy. They were both disagreed with Starfleet.
She's coming across as a big baby. Raffi has been blacklisted in some way . She has been forced to live as a non-person off-grid . I'm sure more of the backstory of these events will be revealed very soon .
That was the chance she took teaming up with Picard for a cause they both believed in.
On TNG Starfleet members were honored to assume risk with Picard. Much greater risk than simply being discharged.
She's coming across as a big baby not worthy of Starfleet.
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Feb 8, 2020 4:14:45 GMT
Raffi has been blacklisted in some way . She has been forced to live as a non-person off-grid . I'm sure more of the backstory of these events will be revealed very soon .
That was the chance she took teaming up with Picard for a cause they both believed in.
On TNG Starfleet members were honored to assume risk with Picard. Much greater risk than simply being discharged.
She's coming across as a big baby not worthy of Starfleet. Think about it , ML . What if some high ranking government official erased your identity , taking everything from you , your job , years of service and and any commendations due . No one was allowed to acknowledge you or any accomplishments or worth due you . No bank account , no credit card , no social security number , no insurance , no health benefits . Raffi was an acknowledged officer of Starfleet , which has been scrubbed from all records , and she has been living like that for nearly 14 years .
It reminds me of the illegal immigrants who live off-grid in the U.S. , who are refused any recognition or help of any sort by the states or the nation . In the work they can beg for , they are generally underpaid and taken advantage of . They can't get healthcare , because they would be caught and deported back to poverty . They can't use a credit card or bank account for the same reason . Many of them have been in this situation for 20 years . Would you be in distress or not ?
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Post by movieliker on Feb 8, 2020 4:30:19 GMT
That was the chance she took teaming up with Picard for a cause they both believed in.
On TNG Starfleet members were honored to assume risk with Picard. Much greater risk than simply being discharged.
She's coming across as a big baby not worthy of Starfleet. Think about it , ML . What if some high ranking government official erased your identity , taking everything from you , your job , years of service and and any commendations due . No one was allowed to acknowledge you or any accomplishments or worth due you . No bank account , no credit card , no social security number , no insurance , no health benefits . Raffi was an acknowledged officer of Starfleet , which has been scrubbed from all records , and she has been living like that for nearly 14 years .
It reminds me of the illegal immigrants who live off-grid in the U.S. , who are refused any recognition or help of any sort by the states or the nation . In the work they can beg for , they are generally underpaid and taken advantage of . They can't get healthcare , because they would be caught and deported back to poverty . They can't use a credit card or bank account for the same reason . Many of them have been in this situation for 20 years . Would you be in distress or not ? It's a lot better than being killed, being injured, or being imprisoned by an alien species. And those were the chances all Starfleet crew took in the past.
Jean Luc didn't force her to do anything. She joined him in that quest of her own volition.
Illegal aliens know what they are getting into before they ever come here. And all the inabilities you list still amount to a better situation than that from whence they came.
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Feb 9, 2020 20:30:12 GMT
Think about it , ML . What if some high ranking government official erased your identity , taking everything from you , your job , years of service and and any commendations due . No one was allowed to acknowledge you or any accomplishments or worth due you . No bank account , no credit card , no social security number , no insurance , no health benefits . Raffi was an acknowledged officer of Starfleet , which has been scrubbed from all records , and she has been living like that for nearly 14 years .
It reminds me of the illegal immigrants who live off-grid in the U.S. , who are refused any recognition or help of any sort by the states or the nation . In the work they can beg for , they are generally underpaid and taken advantage of . They can't get healthcare , because they would be caught and deported back to poverty . They can't use a credit card or bank account for the same reason . Many of them have been in this situation for 20 years . Would you be in distress or not ? It's a lot better than being killed, being injured, or being imprisoned by an alien species. And those were the chances all Starfleet crew took in the past.
Jean Luc didn't force her to do anything. She joined him in that quest of her own volition.
Illegal aliens know what they are getting into before they ever come here. And all the inabilities you list still amount to a better situation than that from whence they came. Broken Wings: former Admiral Jean-Luc Picard and former aide Lt Cmdr Raffi Musiker . Reveals next episode !
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Feb 9, 2020 22:50:55 GMT
So which SUCKS MORE "Picard" OR "Discovery"?
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Post by paislene on Feb 9, 2020 23:50:19 GMT
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Post by movieliker on Feb 10, 2020 2:37:14 GMT
So which SUCKS MORE "Picard" OR "Discovery"? Discovery. I'm watching Picard. I tried, but I couldn't watch Discovery.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 3:38:33 GMT
So three episodes in.
One thing I hate is that they have, as expected, made it clear that the show is set in the Discovery universe. So this isn't the future of TNG, it's the future of Discovery. In a sense I like that, because it means the show doesn't matter with regards to the original timeline.
Outside that I don't hate the show really, nor do I like it really. Honestly we're three episodes in, and very little has actually happened. Three episodes of mucking around on Earth doing spy stuff - which doesn't really work, because we the audience already know everything they're learning. There hasn't been one thing Picard has learned that I didn't know was coming before the show even started, so there's no mystery or suspense.
I hoped it would be good, I expected it to be bad. But thus far, it's just been really boring.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Feb 10, 2020 4:43:18 GMT
So three episodes in. One thing I hate is that they have, as expected, made it clear that the show is set in the Discovery universe. So this isn't the future of TNG, it's the future of Discovery. In a sense I like that, because it means the show doesn't matter with regards to the original timeline. Strictly speaking, it pretty much had to be, legally. Most, if not the entire first season of Picard had been written and shot prior to the finalization of the re-merger of Viacom and CBS; meaning it was being produced under the same license agreement between the two entities. This also meant that there had to be a certain degree of variation between conventional Trek aesthetics and how things look under Bad Robot. This is most often the attributed reason for the stylistic choices for things like the TOS costumes; and may well explain things like why Data's make-up looked a little off. And did anyone notice the TNG series/movie uniforms looked ill-fitting for both Data and Picard? They looked more like a fan made costume; which again, could have had something to do with the license agreement. Of course now that they're all one big happy family again, conventional wisdom would say that the agreement is nullified, at least in terms of how they're restricted. It comes too late to affect season 1 of Picard, but there's no telling how it might factor into season 2. Being hypothetically unrestrained now only means that they could use the old styles and whatnot if they want to, but they're just as likely to want to just embrace the identity they've carved out. The disappointing thing is that the merger means that the likes of Discovery or anything else being produced in that vein now has claim to full legitimacy without necessary distinction of being part of some alternate timeline; which they've never come right out and claimed was the case. This frees them to sprinkle just enough of the old stuff in with the new to obliterate any distinction between them. I was willing to be patient through episode 3, since objectively one might argue that the run time of any of the often two-part series premieres that shows like TNG used to get might be comparable to the length of 2-3 of these streaming episodes. So if it took that long to get the story off the ground, it really wouldn't be that much different from them breaking up any other normal start of a Trek series. But now we're going into episode 4 later this week, nearly halfway through the first season, and they're still introducing characters and laying the foundation of the plot; and it's like, get to the fucking point. Some of this feels like either filler or redundant. Like, did we really need the Romulan black-ops team to attack Picard's home? I'm already over the two misfit toys Picard's taking along on this mission. You can tell how rough things must be for them based on the vices they've been given....🙄 Don't get me wrong, in any other context I might sympathize with characters like Raffi and Rios, but they're laying it on a bit thick - Raffi going on about living in a hovel and everything else, on a world where we're supposed to beyond that bullshit. I get needing conflict and exploring contemporary social issues, but not at the expense of the promise of what Star Trek was supposed to represent; the hope that we could legitimately find a way to get passed all this bullshit one day. Don't take that away, don't make the future as fucking bleak and cynical as today is. I don't know what the underlying reason is supposed to be for Raffi falling on such hard times. It seems unlikely, at least so far, that she ended up this way solely on account of her and Picard's efforts to rescue people from Romulus. It's not like they were trying to go against orders or do something illegal to enact their efforts; they proposed a plan that initially had support that then got turned down and it would be extreme to a stupid degree if that turned out to be the reason Raffi got burned. But even then, just by virtue of the nature of the society they're supposed to be in, it's baffling for them to suggest that anyone living anywhere other than the outer most fringe worlds of the Federation couldn't have access to proper housing, medical and mental health support and pretty much everything else Raffi seemed to complain about not having;because the entire premise of Star Trek is a society where that sort of thing isn't supposed to be possible anymore. Raise your hand if you totally think Agnes is probably going to turn out to be working with Commodore Oh; and she was lying when she said she's a horrible liar? 🙋♂️ I won't be surprised if we find out the Romulan attack was orchestrated for her benefit, so she could "unwittingly" kill one of the attackers, saving Picard and further earning his trust.
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Post by paislene on Feb 10, 2020 5:02:28 GMT
So three episodes in. One thing I hate is that they have, as expected, made it clear that the show is set in the Discovery universe. So this isn't the future of TNG, it's the future of Discovery. In a sense I like that, because it means the show doesn't matter with regards to the original timeline. Outside that I don't hate the show really, nor do I like it really. Honestly we're three episodes in, and very little has actually happened. Three episodes of mucking around on Earth doing spy stuff - which doesn't really work, because we the audience already know everything they're learning. There hasn't been one thing Picard has learned that I didn't know was coming before the show even started, so there's no mystery or suspense. I hoped it would be good, I expected it to be bad. But thus far, it's just been really boring. It's early days , at only 3 episodes in , Graham . I don't know if the Series is action-driven , but I suspect not . It's very likely , that the first season may only be groundwork , slowly letting the audience in on the scenes and characters of a longer story . And they are prepping the storylines for Season 2 now .
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Post by movieliker on Feb 10, 2020 5:09:48 GMT
So three episodes in. One thing I hate is that they have, as expected, made it clear that the show is set in the Discovery universe. So this isn't the future of TNG, it's the future of Discovery. In a sense I like that, because it means the show doesn't matter with regards to the original timeline. Strictly speaking, it pretty much had to be, legally. Most, if not the entire first season of Picard had been written and shot prior to the finalization of the re-merger of Viacom and CBS; meaning it was being produced under the same license agreement between the two entities. This also meant that there had to be a certain degree of variation between conventional Trek aesthetics and how things look under Bad Robot. This is most often the attributed reason for the stylistic choices for things like the TOS costumes; and may well explain things like why Data's make-up looked a little off. And did anyone notice the TNG series/movie uniforms looked ill-fitting for both Data and Picard? They looked more like a fan made costume; which again, could have had something to do with the license agreement. Of course now that they're all one big happy family again, conventional wisdom would say that the agreement is nullified, at least in terms of how they're restricted. It comes too late to affect season 1 of Picard, but there's no telling how it might factor into season 2. Being hypothetically unrestrained now only means that they could use the old styles and whatnot if they want to, but they're just as likely to want to just embrace the identity they've carved out. The disappointing thing is that the merger means that the likes of Discovery or anything else being produced in that vein now has claim to full legitimacy without necessary distinction of being part of some alternate timeline; which they've never come right out and claimed was the case. This frees them to sprinkle just enough of the old stuff in with the new to obliterate any distinction between them. I was willing to be patient through episode 3, since objectively one might argue that the run time of any of the often two-part series premieres that shows like TNG used to get might be comparable to the length of 2-3 of these streaming episodes. So if it took that long to get the story off the ground, it really wouldn't be that much different from them breaking up any other normal start of a Trek series. But now we're going into episode 4 later this week, nearly halfway through the first season, and they're still introducing characters and laying the foundation of the plot; and it's like, get to the fucking point. Some of this feels like either filler or redundant. Like, did we really need the Romulan black-ops team to attack Picard's home? I'm already over the two misfit toys Picard's taking along on this mission. You can tell how rough things must be for them based on the vices they've been given....🙄 Don't get me wrong, in any other context I might sympathize with characters like Raffi and Rios, but they're laying it on a bit thick - Raffi going on about living in a hovel and everything else, on a world where we're supposed to beyond that bullshit. I get needing conflict and exploring contemporary social issues, but not at the expense of the promise of what Star Trek was supposed to represent; the hope that we could legitimately find a way to get passed all this bullshit one day. Don't take that away, don't make the future as fucking bleak and cynical as today is. I don't know what the underlying reason is supposed to be for Raffi falling on such hard times. It seems unlikely, at least so far, that she ended up this way solely on account of her and Picard's efforts to rescue people from Romulus. It's not like they were trying to go against orders or do something illegal to enact their efforts; they proposed a plan that initially had support that then got turned down and it would be extreme to a stupid degree if that turned out to be the reason Raffi got burned. But even then, just by virtue of the nature of the society they're supposed to be in, it's baffling for them to suggest that anyone living anywhere other than the outer most fringe worlds of the Federation couldn't have access to proper housing, medical and mental health support and pretty much everything else Raffi seemed to complain about not having;because the entire premise of Star Trek is a society where that sort of thing isn't supposed to be possible anymore. Raise your hand if you totally think Agnes is probably going to turn out to be working with Commodore Oh ; and she was lying when she said she's a horrible liar? 🙋♂️ I won't be surprised if we find out the Romulan attack was orchestrated for her benefit, so she could "unwittingly" kill one of the attackers, saving Picard and further earning his trust. I think it's liberal Hollywood expressing their disdain for Trump. "Trump, the Republicans and the conservatives are undoing all the progressive groundwork Obama set up. Everything is moving backwards from the liberal, socialized paradise of Star Trek legend. Back to the corrupt, immoral, unethical, violent, xenophobic and protectionist outlook of yesteryear.
Picard represents the lone voice of reason fighting against the Trump like powers that be."
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Feb 10, 2020 7:19:18 GMT
That DOESN'T answer my question as to which one SUCKS MORE! Are YOU saying (typing, actually) that they're equal OR almost equal in how much they SUCK?
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paislene
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Post by paislene on Feb 10, 2020 11:07:46 GMT
I can't give a definitive answer on that , RiP IMDb . You're the one who wants to know which one is the disaster ? And on what context of comparison is that based ? I'm going to watch these series (have) for my streamed viewing , and because I'm curious and enjoy science fiction . But if you're an old Trekkie , Picard is possibly better than Discovery . If not , then they are probably equal in choice to you .
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Post by dazz on Feb 10, 2020 21:50:13 GMT
So three episodes in. One thing I hate is that they have, as expected, made it clear that the show is set in the Discovery universe. So this isn't the future of TNG, it's the future of Discovery. In a sense I like that, because it means the show doesn't matter with regards to the original timeline. Strictly speaking, it pretty much had to be, legally. Most, if not the entire first season of Picard had been written and shot prior to the finalization of the re-merger of Viacom and CBS; meaning it was being produced under the same license agreement between the two entities. This also meant that there had to be a certain degree of variation between conventional Trek aesthetics and how things look under Bad Robot. This is most often the attributed reason for the stylistic choices for things like the TOS costumes; and may well explain things like why Data's make-up looked a little off. And did anyone notice the TNG series/movie uniforms looked ill-fitting for both Data and Picard? They looked more like a fan made costume; which again, could have had something to do with the license agreement. Yeah that was my thinking to a degree also, but I also hoped if they were going to do a Picard show they would have ironed out those details a little, I think I heard somewhere that everything new trek must be like 40% different from old trek as to not confuse the merchandising and such, this is why the Enterprise in the films is significantly larger than the TOS Enterprise, I also think this maybe in a 4th continuity of Trek as old trek is one timeline, the JJ movies are a 2nd timeline and Discovery is a 3rd timeline, so Picard could very well be yet another timeline as how else does major changes that Discovery or JJ's films still lead 100 years into the future the same crew of the Enterprise and everything else coming together? seems like yet another timeline, though this may be corrected and merged with the OG timeline now as you said they have remerged the properties, but fuck me what a mess...whats next Crisis Among Multiple Treks to remerge all the timelines into one?
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Feb 10, 2020 22:23:07 GMT
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Post by stargazer1682 on Feb 11, 2020 1:05:54 GMT
Strictly speaking, it pretty much had to be, legally. Most, if not the entire first season of Picard had been written and shot prior to the finalization of the re-merger of Viacom and CBS; meaning it was being produced under the same license agreement between the two entities. This also meant that there had to be a certain degree of variation between conventional Trek aesthetics and how things look under Bad Robot. This is most often the attributed reason for the stylistic choices for things like the TOS costumes; and may well explain things like why Data's make-up looked a little off. And did anyone notice the TNG series/movie uniforms looked ill-fitting for both Data and Picard? They looked more like a fan made costume; which again, could have had something to do with the license agreement. Yeah that was my thinking to a degree also, but I also hoped if they were going to do a Picard show they would have ironed out those details a little, I think I heard somewhere that everything new trek must be like 40% different from old trek as to not confuse the merchandising and such, this is why the Enterprise in the films is significantly larger than the TOS Enterprise, I also think this maybe in a 4th continuity of Trek as old trek is one timeline, the JJ movies are a 2nd timeline and Discovery is a 3rd timeline, so Picard could very well be yet another timeline as how else does major changes that Discovery or JJ's films still lead 100 years into the future the same crew of the Enterprise and everything else coming together? Well, Picard conceivably takes place in the same timeline as Discovery; or at least I don't think there's any indication to suggest otherwise. Arguably part of the conceit of Discovery is that it's not so divergent from TOS that it still manages to lead to some variation of TNG et al that the highlights are still in play; it's just darker and there's less hope in the universe or whatever. And then of course with Discovery's time jump in season 3, I believe the future is supposed to be even fucking bleaker, because why not make all the altruistic efforts in the present day pointless?
It's the opposite extreme to the problem I always had whenever they'd bring "time agents" or "time fleet" or whatever people on in the past shows; because in either scenario they're basically telling us the end of every story. Either things work out and the distant future's so bright you have to wear shades; in which case threats like the Dominion or the Borg or whatever aren't such threats as to actually risk toppling the Federation that they're still around centuries later. And if a dying relic, well....fuck that's just depressing. I mean, maybe they do it from the perspective of creating the motivation to go back and put right what once went wrong or whatever, but the pacing is so fucking slow, I don't see them being able to do that very effectively. Honestly, I've kind of thought that would be the best way forward for Star Trek for a while now, because it has become a cluster fuck. Yeah, it has shades of Crisis on Infinite Earths, but if nothing else, given the dumpster fire we just go with the CW's take on that story and the low probability of ever seeing someone else take another crack at doing that story proper justice, this could be the next best thing. But just in general, I think there's a lot of potential for a story and I've been rolling it around in my head for quite a while. It could conceivably be a mash-up/crossover between different series and Star Trek iterations; or even introduce a new crew or some of the major players. It would arguably need someone from the closest thing to the original timeline as possible finding themselves at this temporal event where things have gone side ways across history - which conventionally would be a run of the mill Star Trek story, you know? "Oh, something has changed in the past, we have to go back and fix it!" But in this instance it's easier said than done, because they start identifying all these different and unrelated changes to history; and they keep looking for a common thread, only to eventually realize that the only common thread is that, humans are idiots who have mucked about in time repeatedly and with impunity, thinking that "close enough" could possibly be good enough when it comes to time travel and now the million deviations in history have started wracking up and causing huge contradictions in time. And not just with the history they know, but with the new timelines that result, cause further changes. We're not in a 4th time, we're in like, timeline #437 going on #438. Because you have someone like Ben Sisko going back and taking on Gabriel Bell's identity in the 20th century, creating a "restored" timeline that is actually really only a close approximation to the timeline that existed before he, Bashir and Dax got thrown back in time, but it's still different. Then sometime later the crew of the Enterprise-E, in that post Sisko-Bell timeline go back to sometime after Sisko's visit to First Contact and "fix" the timeline to stop the Borg; and there again, the "restored" timeline is similar to the one that preceding the Borg arriving in the past, but it's still different moving forward. Add to it all of the known and possibly unknown time travel before and after - City on the Edge of Forever, End Game, Tomorrow is Yesterday, Future's End, Red Angel etc. All overlapping and interacting. Even the episode Tholian Web, while not strictly time travel by fault of humans, has a human ship sent back in time AND to another universe; which invariably has a butterfly effect on that reality that goes on to effect to the prime universe when their paths cross. And as some fan have speculated, that could present a scenario where Enterprise is in actuality a Post-First Contact timeline series; and the original events might have played out different in some way. From the perspective of a story that untangles this knot of continuity, I'd have it where one of the things a character immediately sees wrong with history is the fact that Charles Tucker died as a result of the events of "These are the Voyages" - take the opportunity to retcon bullshit like that out and say he wasn't meant to die; and maybe something like, him and T'Pol had originally become something of incidental pioneers in inter-species relationships. Maybe having two prominent veterans of the Earth-Romulan war go on to marry and have children helped normalize such relationships, to some degree, earlier on in the history of the Federation; and thus there aren't separatists or whatever later on during TOS. Or at the very least they're on the fringes and not nearly what they are in Discovery. It could also explain why someone like Spock would find himself in the past and seeing such monumental abuses and changes to history as the premature death of not just his best friend's father, but his own entire fucking homeworld and do nothing to try and rectify. Conceivably most iterations of Spock would have the intellect and develop the resources necessary to study the intricate temporal mechanics at play and discover that the timeline he himself originates from was an aberation; and as such it can't be restored, let alone perpetuated and trying to do so would only cause more damage to history. And all the while, this is exactly what Q was trying to prepare Picard specifically and humanity generally for all those years ago when he threw the relative softball of a fairly simple temporal paradox to unravel; because he knew the utter disaster that was coming down the pipeline.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 16, 2020 15:09:08 GMT
I'm 61 years old. I hate this today's/young people's desire to acronymize everything.
The man's name is Jean Luc. Is that too hard to say?
Raffi calls him JL. Lazy disrespectful bitch.
I have my own business. If any of my employees ever try to acronymize my name, they'll get one warning, and then they're fired.
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Post by movieliker on Feb 16, 2020 15:18:18 GMT
It's a lot better than being killed, being injured, or being imprisoned by an alien species. And those were the chances all Starfleet crew took in the past.
Jean Luc didn't force her to do anything. She joined him in that quest of her own volition.
Illegal aliens know what they are getting into before they ever come here. And all the inabilities you list still amount to a better situation than that from whence they came. Broken Wings: former Admiral Jean-Luc Picard and former aide Lt Cmdr Raffi Musiker . Reveals next episode !
I just watched episode 4. Raffi is still acting like a self-entiltled baby. She storms into Picard's quarters demanding to know why they are stopping on some planet first. "Wait a minute !!! You refused to come at first. Then you said you weren't a part of this mission. You were only hitching a ride. And you've been very disrespectful the whole time. You have no right to demand anything."
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