Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 25, 2020 6:38:56 GMT
Here we go, the backdoor pilot for what I'm sure will be another stellar series in the DC/CWU; and it's a shot of someone on a motorcycle buzzing around the city. You can tell they must be in a hurry, because I'm pretty sure I just saw them pop a wheely.
Oh, it's Laurel; I can tell by the way she fiercely turned from the bike to the camera like she just got off it.
Sigh.... Naturally I'm trying to figure out if the scenes with Dinah and Laurel are set in the present or the future; because they sure as hell don't look to have been aged. The way Dinah keeps making pointed references to "2020" make it clear that it's not 2020 (although it does bring up an interesting point about when Crisis occurred, because that started at the end of 2019...)
....Sigh... So what, even though the Crisis was over and Dinah was shown to be an integrated part of the new Earth reality who J'Onn gave her whatever pre-crisis knowledge she needed; not only did she inexplicably wake-up in the future, but was also wiped from reality.... Fuck you writers. Just fuck you. You had a thousand different ways and opportunities to lay the groundwork for this; and you're just going to pull a dues ex machina out of your ass? I mean, it's typical, but still, fuck you.
And I can tell already that it was probably Oliver, as the Spectre, who saved her and sent her to the future; probably to help his daughter. And that's fine. It's stupid, but it's fine. What makes even less sense is Dinah being wiped from reality post Crisis when they had her on the new Post-Crisis Earth; and now they're trying to shoe-horn this shit in.
So is Laurel displaced in time too? I'm having difficulty telling, because the few times they showed her in the future they didn't seem to try and age her much, but at the same time I swear she's wearing a shit ton more make-up than I would normally expect.
Sigh.... so Dinah's been displaced too, and has knowledge of the future of the future. Has no one involved with these shows figured out yet that they all suck at writing time travel stories? Do they lack any self-awareness? Obviously these are rhetorical questions; because just as obviously the answer to both is, yes.
Give me a fucking break; Star City has been virtually crime free for the last 20 years? Just like that? Well, maybe what everybody said about Oliver being a magnet for some of the bad things that happened was true; because otherwise that's some grade A bullshit. This big ass fucking city, which presumably has only gotten bigger by some measure in the last 20 years, doesn't have the occasional murder or robbery? They're all happy, shiny people, who uphold the law out of deference to the man who sacrificed his life for the planet? Is Oliver Queen fucking Jesus now? Is that the big graduation Mia is celebrating, is she becoming the first Pope in the Church of the Green Arrow? Does the choir wear green leather and hoods?
So basically the writers felt the need to toss the last year and a half of character development for Mia, in favor of her making her more like Oliver was before he became the Green Arrow. And because of the trailer for this episode, we know that Laurel is going to magically give Mia back her memories; which kind of makes this whole thing pointless.
Okay, so that is JJ. Honestly, we saw adult JJ so infrequently, I wasn't entirely sure if that was him or not during the proposal scene. Although Mia's never going to look at you the way her dad looked at yours, dude. I'm going to guess though that he's going to die by the end of this episode; motivating Mia to become the Green Arrow - possibly traveling back in time, giving hopes that this future doesn't play out. Although the fact that they've established that there wasn't any crime in Star City for the last 20 years, maybe that part won't happen, but I maintain that it's a fucking stupid idea to set the proposed spin-off in 2040.
We get it, they've changed the future; and now all the angry people who were fighting for control of the city in the previous timeline are now rich douche bags who.... control the city....
Oh come on. I get that it's 20 years later, but seriously, as famous as Oliver is in this future for being the Green fucking Arrow, how does Mia not at least know what Laurel looks like, even if Dinah inexplicably has been erased for their history?
Commercial aside - based on the trailer for the Flash, it seems yet another character has been erased from existence, yet inexplicably preserved; and I'm going to stab in the dark and guess Cisco. I'm also further guess that he might opt to leave, either by the end of the episode or the season. A lot of the signs pointed this leading up to Crisis, what with Barry appointing Cisco their future leader, which obviously they weren't going to need when Barry invariably survived. And then they brought black-hole guy on, who was basically a new Cisco; and set it up that he would join the Star Labs crew. And since we don't need two Ciscos.....
I originally interpreted this as an indication of Cisco dying during Crisis; which I still think would have been preferable to this speculated departure and erasure. But of course that would mean making bold decisions that have lasting consequences; and they couldn't possibly write off a recurring character in such a way as not to be able to bring them back later.
Again, only speculation. I'm sure I'm completely wrong.
Anyways....
Jon-Jons? Really? Sigh......
And seriously, he what, put a mind whammy in a ring and sent you off on a time traveling adventure? Using J'Onn as an explanation for giving characters back their Pre-Crisis knowledge was pretty sketchy when they kept it ambiguous during Crisis, but come on, this isn't just the highlights of knowing that there was a multiverse and then and then a Crisis and all the other bullshit; this is legitimately all of Mia's actual Pre-Crisis memories. How the fuck could J'Onn or anyone give her back those memories of her entire life? I mean, Vibe, maybe; that might actually make sense, but if he does turn out to be erased in the new timeline, I can see how they wouldn't want to use him for that during Crisis. (And on a side note, it just occurred to me how, the Monitor made this big deal about Vibe specifically being needed for Crisis and giving Cisco back his powers against his will; and then Vibe was barely in any of Crisis. What's up with that?)
Okay, so it was Cisco. I guess that's what I get for jumping to conclusions; because it's not like this and the other shows would be stupid enough to just say that it was J'Onn.
I won't however concede that Laurel mentioning Cisco contradict my above theory for the upcoming Flash episode, because Dinah was erased too and Laurel knows her....
The Time Bureau is going to come and stop them from changing time, right? No? Okay.
So they're completely retconning Dinah into a completely different character. Whatever, it's not like they had any idea what to do with her for the last, what, 3 or 4 years now?
Wait, let me guess, Mia's going to assume the Deathstroke wannabe is JJ, but it'll turn out to be someone else, maybe Connor; because "misdirection" - that and it's doubtful they would still have JJ end up going down that path. And whomever the actual Deathstroke turns out to be, they'll kill JJ or end up killing Zoe again; again, all to motivate Mia into becoming the Green Arrow.
Are they going to address who Laurel is Post-Crisis? Because, out of the plethora of Canaries in the Arrowverse, she's the one who shouldn't exist. She wasn't at the dawn of time, she comes from an Earth that was destroyed and may or may have been merged with the Earth's history where Laurel died (we only know for sure that Supergirl's Earth 38 merged with Earth 1; and weren't given any indication that Earth-2 merged with it also). I hadn't really thought about it until either reading one or watching a Crisis review thing that brought it up; and it was suggested that this episode would address just who or what the fuck Post-Crisis Laurel was. But so far they haven't shown her to be anything more or less than what she was before Crisis. And seeing as how she has her Post-Crisis memories, they don't indicate if she's still coping with the loss of her Earth, if it came back or anything that doesn't have to fucking do with Mia.
Augh, why is this episode only half over??
Seriously, he encrypted their honeymoon plans? It should have just been porn.
Better yet, just a bunch of Diggle/Oliver fan-art.
I mean, I get Mia being bitter about remembering all the bad stuff; especially remembering watching her dad die - but at the same time, she also remembers actually getting to fucking meet her dad, so that should probably count for something....
So, Dinah's experience as a police Captain in 2018/19 provides her with the necessary background to be tech savy in 2040? What the hell sort of advanced placement training did the SCPD give her? It's not even like she lived through the last 20 years to be able to grow with and adapt to any of the changes in technology; she just suddenly woke-up one morning and a) somehow managed to procure a bar with no social security number, not cash, no history of any kind; and b) was a full 20 years behind the times. There are older millennial who legitimately lived through the technological changes of the last 20 years, who in spite of being lumped into the artificial classification of people who are supposed tech savy, aren't actually all that adept at technology. I know a guy in his early 40s who doesn't know how to type on a computer keyboard; because he missed out on being young enough to have that transition as part of his education or home life by probably a couple of years.
Can you imagine what sort of developments lie ahead 20 years from now? Whatever we guess, we'll probably be wrong.
"Thank God for morons."
The Arrow writers accidentally include what Greg Berlanti says every time the CW picks up another one of his superhero shows as a line of dialog...
So Laurel notes that the building they're breaking into has meta-dampeners all over the place; and Dinah comments that means no Canary Cries - but isn't hers still synthetic? She lost her powers last season and was given a device to replace, right? Modeled after Laurel-1's? So has Crisis undone that and given Dinah her powers back?
Which raises a question; why not carry one of those sonic necklace deals that Cisco made as a back-up when their powers are dampened? Hell, for that matter, seeing as how it modulated their own normal voice or something, just imagine what that thing could do with their meta-generated cry.
Oh, cool, some guy we met like once and don't really care about is the real mastermind of this bullshit.
Just to be clear, this Trevor guy is the first resident of Star City in 20 fucking years to decide to go off the deep end and do something seriously criminal? Really? Why? What could possibly set him off to run afoul of the memory of Saint Oliver?
Don't forget the future newspaper Doc showed Marty... I mean Laurel showed Dinah, where Bianca's kidnapping and murder lead to Star City turning into the 9th circle of hell in one year's time.
Wait, what? Exploding shrubbery?
Oh, flammable shrubbery. Well, that's different....
Random thought, just how expensive must Mia's college education be in 2040?
Laurel just mentioned Sara dropping her a bit of knowledge. I take it I glossed over her mentioning earlier Sara's role in helping Laurel do the one thing she and the other "legends" supposedly work to stop?
"I can't believe it's been 20 years since he sacrificed himself to save the city."
I believe the word you're looking for is world. Or more precisely, the fucking universe. But sure, make it all about Star City.
Fucking William.
William and Mia's body types are exactly nothing alike; how the fuck would anyone who might have seen her and reported the emergence of a new Green Arrow think they saw someone of William's build if they actually saw Mia? She's practically tiny enough to fit in William's pocket.
So much for Mia remembering all that League of Assassins training she received in the previous timeline, for her to be tranq'd so easily...
Augh...fuck you writers. So not only does Cisco somehow replicate J'Onn's inexplicable ability to restore Pre-Crisis memories and put it in a ring, that he gave to Laurel (for some reason - I guess because it was an elaborate plan to reawaken Mia?) another one of those rings made its way into someone else's hands, which they used to give JJ his Pre-Crisis memories back. Because whoever did that knows who he was Pre-Crisis. But it's not like JJ only has those memories; he still remembers the life that lead to him not leading the Deathstroke gang and just because he remembers the other life doesn't mean the Pre-Crisis version of him should override who he became Post-Crisis.
But lets dig into the minutiae of this whole thing. Who would know who JJ Diggle was in an alternate timeline? How would that person learn of the magic memory ring? Why would Cisco have made two of them? Why did he even make one of them? How many people possibly even need to remember events of Pre-Crisis? Is security at Star Labs still that shitty in 20 years that people can still steal stuff from them?
Oh, it's Laurel; I can tell by the way she fiercely turned from the bike to the camera like she just got off it.
Sigh.... Naturally I'm trying to figure out if the scenes with Dinah and Laurel are set in the present or the future; because they sure as hell don't look to have been aged. The way Dinah keeps making pointed references to "2020" make it clear that it's not 2020 (although it does bring up an interesting point about when Crisis occurred, because that started at the end of 2019...)
....Sigh... So what, even though the Crisis was over and Dinah was shown to be an integrated part of the new Earth reality who J'Onn gave her whatever pre-crisis knowledge she needed; not only did she inexplicably wake-up in the future, but was also wiped from reality.... Fuck you writers. Just fuck you. You had a thousand different ways and opportunities to lay the groundwork for this; and you're just going to pull a dues ex machina out of your ass? I mean, it's typical, but still, fuck you.
And I can tell already that it was probably Oliver, as the Spectre, who saved her and sent her to the future; probably to help his daughter. And that's fine. It's stupid, but it's fine. What makes even less sense is Dinah being wiped from reality post Crisis when they had her on the new Post-Crisis Earth; and now they're trying to shoe-horn this shit in.
So is Laurel displaced in time too? I'm having difficulty telling, because the few times they showed her in the future they didn't seem to try and age her much, but at the same time I swear she's wearing a shit ton more make-up than I would normally expect.
Sigh.... so Dinah's been displaced too, and has knowledge of the future of the future. Has no one involved with these shows figured out yet that they all suck at writing time travel stories? Do they lack any self-awareness? Obviously these are rhetorical questions; because just as obviously the answer to both is, yes.
Give me a fucking break; Star City has been virtually crime free for the last 20 years? Just like that? Well, maybe what everybody said about Oliver being a magnet for some of the bad things that happened was true; because otherwise that's some grade A bullshit. This big ass fucking city, which presumably has only gotten bigger by some measure in the last 20 years, doesn't have the occasional murder or robbery? They're all happy, shiny people, who uphold the law out of deference to the man who sacrificed his life for the planet? Is Oliver Queen fucking Jesus now? Is that the big graduation Mia is celebrating, is she becoming the first Pope in the Church of the Green Arrow? Does the choir wear green leather and hoods?
So basically the writers felt the need to toss the last year and a half of character development for Mia, in favor of her making her more like Oliver was before he became the Green Arrow. And because of the trailer for this episode, we know that Laurel is going to magically give Mia back her memories; which kind of makes this whole thing pointless.
Okay, so that is JJ. Honestly, we saw adult JJ so infrequently, I wasn't entirely sure if that was him or not during the proposal scene. Although Mia's never going to look at you the way her dad looked at yours, dude. I'm going to guess though that he's going to die by the end of this episode; motivating Mia to become the Green Arrow - possibly traveling back in time, giving hopes that this future doesn't play out. Although the fact that they've established that there wasn't any crime in Star City for the last 20 years, maybe that part won't happen, but I maintain that it's a fucking stupid idea to set the proposed spin-off in 2040.
We get it, they've changed the future; and now all the angry people who were fighting for control of the city in the previous timeline are now rich douche bags who.... control the city....
Oh come on. I get that it's 20 years later, but seriously, as famous as Oliver is in this future for being the Green fucking Arrow, how does Mia not at least know what Laurel looks like, even if Dinah inexplicably has been erased for their history?
Commercial aside - based on the trailer for the Flash, it seems yet another character has been erased from existence, yet inexplicably preserved; and I'm going to stab in the dark and guess Cisco. I'm also further guess that he might opt to leave, either by the end of the episode or the season. A lot of the signs pointed this leading up to Crisis, what with Barry appointing Cisco their future leader, which obviously they weren't going to need when Barry invariably survived. And then they brought black-hole guy on, who was basically a new Cisco; and set it up that he would join the Star Labs crew. And since we don't need two Ciscos.....
I originally interpreted this as an indication of Cisco dying during Crisis; which I still think would have been preferable to this speculated departure and erasure. But of course that would mean making bold decisions that have lasting consequences; and they couldn't possibly write off a recurring character in such a way as not to be able to bring them back later.
Again, only speculation. I'm sure I'm completely wrong.
Anyways....
Jon-Jons? Really? Sigh......
And seriously, he what, put a mind whammy in a ring and sent you off on a time traveling adventure? Using J'Onn as an explanation for giving characters back their Pre-Crisis knowledge was pretty sketchy when they kept it ambiguous during Crisis, but come on, this isn't just the highlights of knowing that there was a multiverse and then and then a Crisis and all the other bullshit; this is legitimately all of Mia's actual Pre-Crisis memories. How the fuck could J'Onn or anyone give her back those memories of her entire life? I mean, Vibe, maybe; that might actually make sense, but if he does turn out to be erased in the new timeline, I can see how they wouldn't want to use him for that during Crisis. (And on a side note, it just occurred to me how, the Monitor made this big deal about Vibe specifically being needed for Crisis and giving Cisco back his powers against his will; and then Vibe was barely in any of Crisis. What's up with that?)
Okay, so it was Cisco. I guess that's what I get for jumping to conclusions; because it's not like this and the other shows would be stupid enough to just say that it was J'Onn.
I won't however concede that Laurel mentioning Cisco contradict my above theory for the upcoming Flash episode, because Dinah was erased too and Laurel knows her....
The Time Bureau is going to come and stop them from changing time, right? No? Okay.
So they're completely retconning Dinah into a completely different character. Whatever, it's not like they had any idea what to do with her for the last, what, 3 or 4 years now?
Wait, let me guess, Mia's going to assume the Deathstroke wannabe is JJ, but it'll turn out to be someone else, maybe Connor; because "misdirection" - that and it's doubtful they would still have JJ end up going down that path. And whomever the actual Deathstroke turns out to be, they'll kill JJ or end up killing Zoe again; again, all to motivate Mia into becoming the Green Arrow.
Are they going to address who Laurel is Post-Crisis? Because, out of the plethora of Canaries in the Arrowverse, she's the one who shouldn't exist. She wasn't at the dawn of time, she comes from an Earth that was destroyed and may or may have been merged with the Earth's history where Laurel died (we only know for sure that Supergirl's Earth 38 merged with Earth 1; and weren't given any indication that Earth-2 merged with it also). I hadn't really thought about it until either reading one or watching a Crisis review thing that brought it up; and it was suggested that this episode would address just who or what the fuck Post-Crisis Laurel was. But so far they haven't shown her to be anything more or less than what she was before Crisis. And seeing as how she has her Post-Crisis memories, they don't indicate if she's still coping with the loss of her Earth, if it came back or anything that doesn't have to fucking do with Mia.
Augh, why is this episode only half over??
Seriously, he encrypted their honeymoon plans? It should have just been porn.
Better yet, just a bunch of Diggle/Oliver fan-art.
I mean, I get Mia being bitter about remembering all the bad stuff; especially remembering watching her dad die - but at the same time, she also remembers actually getting to fucking meet her dad, so that should probably count for something....
So, Dinah's experience as a police Captain in 2018/19 provides her with the necessary background to be tech savy in 2040? What the hell sort of advanced placement training did the SCPD give her? It's not even like she lived through the last 20 years to be able to grow with and adapt to any of the changes in technology; she just suddenly woke-up one morning and a) somehow managed to procure a bar with no social security number, not cash, no history of any kind; and b) was a full 20 years behind the times. There are older millennial who legitimately lived through the technological changes of the last 20 years, who in spite of being lumped into the artificial classification of people who are supposed tech savy, aren't actually all that adept at technology. I know a guy in his early 40s who doesn't know how to type on a computer keyboard; because he missed out on being young enough to have that transition as part of his education or home life by probably a couple of years.
Can you imagine what sort of developments lie ahead 20 years from now? Whatever we guess, we'll probably be wrong.
"Thank God for morons."
The Arrow writers accidentally include what Greg Berlanti says every time the CW picks up another one of his superhero shows as a line of dialog...
So Laurel notes that the building they're breaking into has meta-dampeners all over the place; and Dinah comments that means no Canary Cries - but isn't hers still synthetic? She lost her powers last season and was given a device to replace, right? Modeled after Laurel-1's? So has Crisis undone that and given Dinah her powers back?
Which raises a question; why not carry one of those sonic necklace deals that Cisco made as a back-up when their powers are dampened? Hell, for that matter, seeing as how it modulated their own normal voice or something, just imagine what that thing could do with their meta-generated cry.
Oh, cool, some guy we met like once and don't really care about is the real mastermind of this bullshit.
Just to be clear, this Trevor guy is the first resident of Star City in 20 fucking years to decide to go off the deep end and do something seriously criminal? Really? Why? What could possibly set him off to run afoul of the memory of Saint Oliver?
Don't forget the future newspaper Doc showed Marty... I mean Laurel showed Dinah, where Bianca's kidnapping and murder lead to Star City turning into the 9th circle of hell in one year's time.
Wait, what? Exploding shrubbery?
Oh, flammable shrubbery. Well, that's different....
Random thought, just how expensive must Mia's college education be in 2040?
Laurel just mentioned Sara dropping her a bit of knowledge. I take it I glossed over her mentioning earlier Sara's role in helping Laurel do the one thing she and the other "legends" supposedly work to stop?
"I can't believe it's been 20 years since he sacrificed himself to save the city."
I believe the word you're looking for is world. Or more precisely, the fucking universe. But sure, make it all about Star City.
Fucking William.
William and Mia's body types are exactly nothing alike; how the fuck would anyone who might have seen her and reported the emergence of a new Green Arrow think they saw someone of William's build if they actually saw Mia? She's practically tiny enough to fit in William's pocket.
So much for Mia remembering all that League of Assassins training she received in the previous timeline, for her to be tranq'd so easily...
Augh...fuck you writers. So not only does Cisco somehow replicate J'Onn's inexplicable ability to restore Pre-Crisis memories and put it in a ring, that he gave to Laurel (for some reason - I guess because it was an elaborate plan to reawaken Mia?) another one of those rings made its way into someone else's hands, which they used to give JJ his Pre-Crisis memories back. Because whoever did that knows who he was Pre-Crisis. But it's not like JJ only has those memories; he still remembers the life that lead to him not leading the Deathstroke gang and just because he remembers the other life doesn't mean the Pre-Crisis version of him should override who he became Post-Crisis.
But lets dig into the minutiae of this whole thing. Who would know who JJ Diggle was in an alternate timeline? How would that person learn of the magic memory ring? Why would Cisco have made two of them? Why did he even make one of them? How many people possibly even need to remember events of Pre-Crisis? Is security at Star Labs still that shitty in 20 years that people can still steal stuff from them?
