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Post by thisguy4000 on Jan 29, 2020 4:41:26 GMT
Why exactly was Earth-1 Laurel still dead? Oliver managed to undo almost everyone else’s deaths, but Laurel stays dead?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 10:17:05 GMT
Why exactly was Earth-1 Laurel still dead? Oliver managed to undo almost everyone else’s deaths, but Laurel stays dead? lol because reasons. Eh just let sleeping dogs lie, just add another line to the canary debacle tally
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2020 10:37:08 GMT
Never mind, apparently it was explained in the finale of Arrow. Havent seen it myself yet though
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 30, 2020 14:32:14 GMT
Never mind, apparently it was explained in the finale of Arrow. Havent seen it myself yet though It wasn't. It's just "because". |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Jan 31, 2020 21:43:12 GMT
The whole thing is pretty messy. So all these people never died but nothing else changed? Didn't their deaths have huge impacts on the lives of the other characters? Thea's life wasn't changed at all by the death of her mother?
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 31, 2020 23:54:28 GMT
The whole thing is pretty messy. So all these people never died but nothing else changed? Didn't their deaths have huge impacts on the lives of the other characters? Thea's life wasn't changed at all by the death of her mother? That was one of my biggest complaints. Especially with the last episode revealing such a massive retcon as Earth 1 Laurel marrying Tommy. So does that mean she still became the Black Canary? Presumably she must have if she still died, but how did that relationship and Tommy specifically factor into Team Arrow and everything else that went on in this new timeline? Like I mentioned in my review thread, Tommy and Laurel could have had kids for all we know; who would conceivably be adults in the proposed spin-off. And how does someone like Tommy living affect Oliver? His best friend lives, so does Tommy find out he's "the Hood" at the end of season 1 like he originally did? How does that change Oliver's relationship with Diggle? |
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Post by dazz on Feb 1, 2020 8:18:47 GMT
The whole thing is pretty messy. So all these people never died but nothing else changed? Didn't their deaths have huge impacts on the lives of the other characters? Thea's life wasn't changed at all by the death of her mother? That was one of my biggest complaints. Especially with the last episode revealing such a massive retcon as Earth 1 Laurel marrying Tommy. So does that mean she still became the Black Canary? Presumably she must have if she still died, but how did that relationship and Tommy specifically factor into Team Arrow and everything else that went on in this new timeline? Like I mentioned in my review thread, Tommy and Laurel could have had kids for all we know; who would conceivably be adults in the proposed spin-off. And how does someone like Tommy living affect Oliver? His best friend lives, so does Tommy find out he's "the Hood" at the end of season 1 like he originally did? How does that change Oliver's relationship with Diggle? They would have made more sense being in the afterlife final scene with Oliver & Felicity, Oliver restored the universe and as a reward has this piece of heaven for himself and those he loves, or it's a separate universe onto itself where simply Oliver and Felicity get to relive their lives as normal people, still brings everyone back but in a less confusing and pointless way, plus as they all had such meaningful relationships with Oliver it pays off way more, could also have Earth-1 Laurel there with Tommy in that scene, yeah just very messy, also it means they are all now back alive and sure we don't have a Star City 2020 based show but they still exist in the universe of the rest of the Arrowverse are they just going to forget about all of this in all these other shows? which is why them being in the afterlife pocket universe would make more sense, on top of you know Oliver being stuck alone with Felicity for eternity should be no ones idea of paradise.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Feb 1, 2020 14:30:36 GMT
I can't help but also compare it to at least one instance that comes to mind from the comics; even though it's technically Batman. But let's face it, he probably should have just been Batman anyway.
As stupid as Final Crisis was in the comics and the whole thing with Batman being "dead," but not really; and then doing a comic that eulogized him when they already made it clear to people he wasn't dead; "Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader" presented some interesting concepts.
It's basically this abstract story that could kind of be viewed as an Elseworld story, because it doesn't really adhere to any specific continuity or tell a story that effected continuity; and it wasn't just one story.
The premise was simply "Batman died and everyone came to his funeral" - and I mean everyone he's ever met. And they had all these people, including at one point the Joker, talk about their life and how it was impacted by Batman; along with Batman's final moments. Only his death is different each time someone else talks about him.
Like I said, it's abstract and gets pretty trippy. There's one where Alfred talks about how hard Bruce took his parents death, and to help him cope, he created these scenarios for Bruce to feel useful; paying former actor friends of his to stage phony supervillain encounters for Bruce to stop as Batman. Many of their encounters harken back to the more campy Batman stories from the'60s, so less violent crime, more impractical plots and hijinx.
Alfred goes on to say that this worked for a while, but eventually it became clear that Bruce needed a Moriarty to his Holmes, so Alfred himself took it upon himself to be Bruce's arch-rival, becoming the Joker. Bruce eventually figures it all out and confronts Alfred; and in the heat of their exchange, the batsignal goes off, but Alfred swears it's not one of his schemes. Bruce leaves anyway, because Gotham needs Batman; and he confronts a guy who's taken hostages and ends up getting shot and killed.
In the end, they kind of wrap things up with the idea that at the end of Bruce Wayne's life, his reward for his good deeds is he "gets to be Batman", being born again and again to Thomas and Martha Wayne; he gets to spend however many years with them, before admittedly losing them again and again. But then every time he takes that tragedy and uses it to become one of the greatest heroes ever.
I've never quite been sold on the idea that Bruce Wayne's grand reward for his heroism would be to relive his parents death over and over, but I sort of get the general idea they were going for. And in contrast, you can't help wonder if, when applied to Oliver, if he made any right decisions. Would a scenario where he was reborn to become the Green Arrow be a reward or punishment? Because I get the impression that it would be the latter and it shouldn't be.
But here we are with a finale where the perfect world basically requires that Oliver barely interacted with anyone at all. Because aside from the altered flashback they showed of Oliver saving his mom, that's pretty much the best explanation for most of the rest of these people being alive.
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