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Post by Catman 猫的主人 on Feb 13, 2020 17:18:01 GMT
That stuff can seal anything!
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Post by Sarge on Feb 14, 2020 2:59:26 GMT
Yeah, "it fixed itself" after we stopped creating it; I suppose that is accurate. It's an interesting story and almost a perfect storm of diagnosis, simple science, actionable recommendations presented to the right people who chose to act before Dupont could get their obfuscation campaign into full swing.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 16, 2020 10:30:37 GMT
The thing is that the hole didn't repair itself. It's actually due to fact that the Montreal protocol was signed and adopted by pretty much every nation on the planet. Products that caused ozone depletion were banned and surprise, there was recovery. There is a reason why the Montreal protocol is considered the most successful international environmental agreement ever made and that's why people are calling for similar actions to tackle climate change. Thank you for that critically important rebuttal, Walter. I will also add, again, what I reported earlier: the collaboration of Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher to help solve the problem, eventually leading to the the Montreal protocal. Reagan and Thatcher + Ozone HoleEveryone should watch the short video in the body of that link. And here's a link that explains the science and the history of the Montreal Protocol from a PBS documentary: Ozone Hole: How We Saved the PlanetEveryone of every political persuasion needs to collaborate to save the planet and stop claiming that it will heal itself. It will heal itself in the end, honestly, but it will get rid of humans in the process, to wit: scientist James Lovelock's Gaia Hypothesis. Denial is a fatal flaw and a moral failure of the highest order, if humans are to prevail (and other species, too). We're running out of time for our children and grandchildren, an unforgivable tragedy in the making. Good! Denial of over-population, which is plugged and promoted at every turn is the most extreme and detrimental cause to the earths environment. The world is bursting at the seams with human beings and there are way tooooooo many children and grandchildren. This is human made tragedy on a grand scale and it is unforgivable ignorance that is the culprit.
Pathetic Earthlings!
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 17, 2020 1:08:32 GMT
Good! Denial of over-population, which is plugged and promoted at every turn is the most extreme and detrimental cause to the earths environment. The world is bursting at the seams with human beings and there are way tooooooo many children and grandchildren. This is human made tragedy on a grand scale and it is unforgivable ignorance that is the culprit.
Pathetic Earthlings!
I am not at all in denial about overpopulation!! I read Paul R. Ehrlich's "The Population Bomb" not long after it was published in 1968 and have talked about the problem for years and years to anyone who would listen. It's a profoundly important part of the problem, and I've been horrified that it hasn't been talked about much at all in the last couple of decades by those who have the power to do something about it - save the Chinese, who attempted to rectify it with their one child policy. But they removed that in 2013, long after they became a hugely industrialized nation, creating even more pollution than the U.S. does. Population growth absolutely needs to be discussed and dealt with. But it in no way diminishes - in fact it only amplifies - the need to deal with climate change in every conceivable way possible. And if you think the quote you highlighted in my post above suggests otherwise, you are gravely mistaken. The sad truth, however, is that we are already too little, too late, for people, and for the plants and animals that will suffer the consequences of what we have already done to the planet. It is a moral failure, without question, all of it, including overpopulation. And denial - based upon self interest or ignorance - of any part of the problem is the absolute kiss of death to the world as we know it!! So be it. There are times, quite honestly, when I think the planet would be better off without us. EDITED TO ADD: Just this morning on CBS Sunday Morning Harrison Ford - a typically apolitical man who's becoming much more politically active these days because of the peril of climate change - said, "We're in danger of losing the support of nature for our lives. For our economies. For our societies. Nature doesn't need people. People need nature." Truer words were never spoken! Your response didn't indicate as such, that is why I commented on it. Population control is the elephant in the room. I don't care to champion the likes of Thatcher and Regan for saving the planet due to the ozone issue. They were just riding on the backs of those that were more knowledgeable and intelligent and advising them on what were the best measures. It was another manipulated distraction for these duplicitous and self-serving agenda driven assholes. The planet is not saved and least of all because of them and the ozone hole measures taken.
We can skirt around the fringe, but it is really now time to delve deep, but the current status quo dictates that people breeding are essential to keep it in place, for the economy to feed off. I can't see much changing here soon, until irreparable damage is done and the wake up call will be too late.
Ford is correct. All and everything works in with nature, but it appears to be the nature of the human ego to deplete what it can, to reap in profits, without thought for the rest. I notice that the recycling bins in the complex I live at are always full when I go to place mine in, which is usually only more than it would be, but for my flatmates alcohol bottles and cans of food. The neighbors are worse. I have jars, which I often reuse, rarely buy tinned food, perhaps soups and baked beans occasionally when I need a quick fix, and don't drink alcohol—which consumption of is a huge recycling issue due to bottle containment of the booze—have a soda stream unit, so never buy large bottles of softdrink, but what can one do about others eating and drinking habits???!!!
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 17, 2020 2:04:48 GMT
Your response didn't indicate as such, that is why I commented on it. Population control is the elephant in the room. I don't care to champion the likes of Thatcher and Regan for saving the planet due to the ozone issue. They were just riding on the backs of those that were more knowledgeable and intelligent and advising them on what were the best measures. It was another manipulated distraction for these duplicitous and self-serving agenda driven assholes. The planet is not saved and least of all because of them and the ozone hole measures taken.
We can skirt around the fringe, but it is really now time to delve deep, but the current status quo dictates that people breeding are essential to keep it in place, for the economy to feed off. I can't see much changing here soon, until irreparable damage is done and the wake up call will be too late.
Ford is correct. All and everything works in with nature, but it appears to be the nature of the human ego to deplete what it can, to reap in profits, without thought for the rest. I notice that the recycling bins in the complex I live at are always full when I go to place mine in, which is usually only more than it would be, but for my flatmates alcohol bottles and cans of food. The neighbors are worse. I have jars, which I often reuse, rarely buy tinned food, perhaps soups and baked beans occasionally when I need a quick fix, and don't drink alcohol—which consumption of is a huge recycling issue due to bottle containment of the booze—have a soda stream unit, so never buy large bottles of softdrink, but what can one do about others eating and drinking habits???!!!
I don't agree with your first paragraph - as much as I disliked Thatcher and Reagan - because I believe that anything that is done is better than nothing being done.
But otherwise we are in complete agreement. I've been fighting this battle since I was very young, and certainly long before the general public was talking about it at all, because above all else I believe the earth is a holy, living thing, and that we need to take care of it for the sake of our souls (hence my commentary about not doing so is a moral failure). But I truly fear that we are too late now and that all will be for naught. It makes me profoundly sad. My only comfort then is to turn to a poem by one of my favorite writers, Wendell Berry, whose "In the Peace of Wild Things" I find comforting (to imagine a world without this possibility of nature to heal the human heart is simply devastating to me):
The Peace of Wild Things (Wendell Berry)
"When despair for the world grows in me
and I wake in the night at the least sound
in fear of what my life and my children’s lives may be,
I go and lie down where the wood drake
rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds.
I come into the peace of wild things
who do not tax their lives with forethought
of grief. I come into the presence of still water.
And I feel above me the day-blind stars
waiting with their light. For a time
I rest in the grace of the world, and am free." Because of my dislike of Thatcher and Reagan too, I find it difficult to give credit, but whatever credit is due, is only really due to their advisors and that it would work in best with their public image. They were the figureheads that represented their nations and it put them in good stead with environmentalists at the very least. I only believed in what I was told, not through my own research, but what was promoted in the media and what were the important measures, like reducing flurocarbons.
At the risk of sounding trite, things will get worst before they get better, if they ever do. People fear not breeding, because they believe all of life, or even consciousness for that matter, is just outside of themselves and what is contained within the physical being is the be all end all. It is going to be one big massive wake up call, but one that is not ready to be awaken yet. I do feel cynical with my take, but that is the only way I can keep it real enough to see what the underlying problem is.
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Post by vegalyra on Feb 17, 2020 23:18:05 GMT
The '80s ended and people put away their cans of Aqua Net.   |
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