|
|
Post by thebayharborbutcher on Feb 16, 2020 21:11:14 GMT
What cheating scandal do you think was worse? The 1917 Astros sign stealing or the 1919 Black Sox?
For me, I think the Black Sox scandal was worse. For one, they actually broke the law. That to me extends further than just damaging the integrity of the game. You actually have legit criminals created out of that whole mess. Additionally, sign steaming is bad, but it still doesn’t create any guarantees for winning. A lot of people out there could know what pitch Aroldis Chapman is gonna throw. It doesn’t mean they can hit a home run off him. Throwing a game you for sure know what the results will be.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 16, 2020 21:17:13 GMT
The "Black Sox" (1919, btw) did what they did to LOSE games. At least the Astros were trying for a positive result
|
|
|
|
Post by hoskotafe3 on Feb 16, 2020 21:30:52 GMT
I dunno. I saw a special on that the other day. Gambling in sports and throwing games was rife in the early 20th century and baseball turned a blind eye to it because they were swimming in cash and popularity thanks to illegal gambling. The White Sox mistake was the stage they did it on and underestimating the extent to which society was growing steadily sick of systemic corruption throughout all institutions. A group of working class schmucks from the South side of Chicago were the ideal people to punish to send a message to everyone else.
Whereas the Astros willfully disobeyed clearly laid out laws in the full knowledge of what the likely consquences were.
So while I agree that throwing a World Series is worse I have much less sympathy for the abuse the Astros are about to cop than I do for the Black Sox.
|
|
|
|
Post by screamingtreefrogs on Feb 16, 2020 21:39:21 GMT
Astros Who did the Black Sox hurt but themselves and their fanbase. Nobody that's who. 'Stros pissed all over the game while losing their integrity, hurt their own fanbase, hurt other franchises and their fanbases as well.
This is a no-brainer folks - I'm disappointed in you.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 16, 2020 21:44:05 GMT
I dunno. I saw a special on that the other day. Gambling in sports and throwing games was rife in the early 20th century and baseball turned a blind eye to it because they were swimming in cash and popularity thanks to illegal gambling. The White Sox mistake was the stage they did it on and underestimating the extent to which society was growing steadily sick of systemic corruption throughout all institutions. A group of working class schmucks from the South side of Chicago were the ideal people to punish to send a message to everyone else. Whereas the Astros willfully disobeyed clearly laid out laws in the full knowledge of what the likely consquences were. So while I agree that throwing a World Series is worse I have much less sympathy for the abuse the Astros are about to cop than I do for the Black Sox. The Black Sox knew full well the consequences. In 1877, four members of the Louisville Grays were banned for throwing the pennant race. Including two big stars, George Hall and Jim Devlin. And before you scream “1877?”, it was 42 years before the Sox. If players had been banned in 1978 for fixing, it would still be fresh in our minds. Just because Hal Chase et al didn’t get caught, doesn’t mitigate what Jackson, Ciciotte and the other crooks did
|
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 16, 2020 21:45:15 GMT
Astros Who did the Black Sox hurt but themselves and their fanbase. Nobody that's who. 'Stros pissed all over the game while losing their integrity, hurt their own fanbase, hurt other franchises and their fanbases as well.
This is a no-brainer folks - I'm disappointed in you.
Oh my God. The Black Sox didn’t piss all over baseball for a few dollars ?
|
|
|
|
Post by screamingtreefrogs on Feb 16, 2020 22:02:05 GMT
Astros Who did the Black Sox hurt but themselves and their fanbase. Nobody that's who. 'Stros pissed all over the game while losing their integrity, hurt their own fanbase, hurt other franchises and their fanbases as well.
This is a no-brainer folks - I'm disappointed in you.
Oh my God. The Black Sox didn’t piss all over baseball for a few dollars ? Nope - they pissed all over themselves and their fanbase
The Stros took a giant dump on other well deserving franchises that were capable of winning the WS and their fanbases as well.
|
|
|
|
Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 16, 2020 22:06:49 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by TheGoodMan19 on Feb 16, 2020 22:08:38 GMT
Oh my God. The Black Sox didn’t piss all over baseball for a few dollars ? Nope - they pissed all over themselves and their fanbase
The Stros took a giant dump on other well deserving franchises that were capable of winning the WS and their fanbases as well.
The Black Sox made it look like baseball was as straight as pro wrestling.
|
|
|
|
Post by Geddy on Feb 16, 2020 22:13:20 GMT
As it stands now, got to go with Black Sox 1919.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Feb 16, 2020 22:30:04 GMT
Astros Who did the Black Sox hurt but themselves and their fanbase. Nobody that's who. 'Stros pissed all over the game while losing their integrity, hurt their own fanbase, hurt other franchises and their fanbases as well.
This is a no-brainer folks - I'm disappointed in you.
It is good that I am a Houston Rockets fan and not a Houston Astros fan. Can you imagine the shame and ignominy that Astros fans might be going through right now?
|
|
|
|
Post by millar70 on Feb 16, 2020 22:35:37 GMT
I voted for Black Sox.
They played to lose. To me, that's worse than what the Astros did, and way worse than what guys like Bonds and Clemens did.
|
|
|
|
Post by screamingtreefrogs on Feb 16, 2020 23:05:09 GMT
Astros Who did the Black Sox hurt but themselves and their fanbase. Nobody that's who. 'Stros pissed all over the game while losing their integrity, hurt their own fanbase, hurt other franchises and their fanbases as well.
This is a no-brainer folks - I'm disappointed in you.
It is good that I am a Houston Rockets fan and not a Houston Astros fan. Can you imagine the shame and ignominy that Astros fans might be going through right now? Some sort of protest needs to be made.
How about their first home game - while the PA Announcer is introducing the players - the opposing teams turns their back on them in unison facing the other direction. I have no clue who they play their first home series with - but this would be a gutsy move.
|
|
|
|
Post by NJtoTX on Feb 16, 2020 23:09:36 GMT
Although I voted Black Sox, they only cost their fans and bettors. Astros cost players and others in organizations money, awards, and roster spots. Steroids guys did as well, especially if it was illegal at the time.
Though I suppose the Sox cost teammates who weren't aware of the tank job.
|
|
|
|
Post by NJtoTX on Feb 16, 2020 23:14:27 GMT
It is good that I am a Houston Rockets fan and not a Houston Astros fan. Can you imagine the shame and ignominy that Astros fans might be going through right now? Some sort of protest needs to be made.
How about their first home game - while the PA Announcer is introducing the players - the opposing teams turns their back on them in unison facing the other direction. I have no clue who they play their first home series with - but this would be a gutsy move.
March 26 home vs Angels March 30 @ Fiers and the A's
|
|
|
|
Post by hi224 on Feb 16, 2020 23:39:28 GMT
What cheating scandal do you think was worse? The 1917 Astros sign stealing or the 1919 Black Sox? For me, I think the Black Sox scandal was worse. For one, they actually broke the law. That to me extends further than just damaging the integrity of the game. You actually have legit criminals created out of that whole mess. Additionally, sign steaming is bad, but it still doesn’t create any guarantees for winning. A lot of people out there could know what pitch Aroldis Chapman is gonna throw. It doesn’t mean they can hit a home run off him. Throwing a game you for sure know what the results will be. whoah they did it another time my god they are bold.
|
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Feb 17, 2020 0:11:52 GMT
Black Sox
Actively quitting for dirty money is worse than sneakily trying to get an edge. Not a lot, but it's worse. Like soccer, minnow nations fixing small games by losing all over the world, probably to this day.
|
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Feb 17, 2020 0:13:24 GMT
Astros Who did the Black Sox hurt but themselves and their fanbase. Nobody that's who. 'Stros pissed all over the game while losing their integrity, hurt their own fanbase, hurt other franchises and their fanbases as well.
This is a no-brainer folks - I'm disappointed in you.
They were hurting the integrity of the entire professional league. Vince McMahon calls that RAW
|
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 17, 2020 13:05:09 GMT
The "Black Sox" (1919, btw) did what they did to LOSE games. At least the Astros were trying for a positive result To me, that makes it worse. Black Sox took a dive for cash, nobody loses but the fans. The Astros stole the championship from teams that would've beaten them. The integrity of the game was still compromised, the outcome is still illegitimate, plus teams got screwed out of a championship. Black Sox only screwed themselves.
|
|
|
|
Post by screamingtreefrogs on Feb 17, 2020 13:33:23 GMT
The "Black Sox" (1919, btw) did what they did to LOSE games. At least the Astros were trying for a positive result To me, that makes it worse. Black Sox took a dive for cash, nobody loses but the fans. The Astros stole the championship from teams that would've beaten them. The integrity of the game was still compromised, the outcome is still illegitimate, plus teams got screwed out of a championship. Black Sox only screwed themselves. This guy's got it right.
|
|
