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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 23, 2020 4:10:12 GMT
Up until what point? That the men asked to rape the angels? Again, fine, but was the judgment due to the homosexuality, the intended rape, or being inhospitable to strangers? "Why are you assuming the first" is what I'm asking. I'm less interested in what you/I believe than I am in why you believe it. You haven't really given a compelling reason to interpret that story as being about homosexuality yet. They all go together, and there is nothing that will give you a compelling argument, which is why I don't try. Once again, Lot offered to send out his two virgin daughters to placate the Sodomites, but the Sodomites wanted the two men, and they were offended and saw it as a moral judgment of their ways, and they threatened to do worse to Lot than to the two strangers. This is significant I believe. Of course it could have been many other things, but in their case it was their homosexual lust which did them in. Homosexuality isn't mentioned by name, but it doesn't have to be. The whole story is there. If they "all go together" then why are most all other mentions in The Bible about only the inhospitable part? Again, I'm not denying that the Sodomites wanted the men; the issue is whether the judgment had to do with them wanting the men, wanting to rape someone, or being inhospitable to strangers. The latter seems most likely to me because that's the theme at the core of that story, that Lot is being hospitable to the strangers while the Sodomites are not, and that's supported by both other mentions in The Bible of that story. It seems strange to focus on the homosexuality when even the rest of The Bible doesn't focus on that.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 23, 2020 4:18:29 GMT
They all go together, and there is nothing that will give you a compelling argument, which is why I don't try. Once again, Lot offered to send out his two virgin daughters to placate the Sodomites, but the Sodomites wanted the two men, and they were offended and saw it as a moral judgment of their ways, and they threatened to do worse to Lot than to the two strangers. This is significant I believe. Of course it could have been many other things, but in their case it was their homosexual lust which did them in. Homosexuality isn't mentioned by name, but it doesn't have to be. The whole story is there. If they "all go together" then why are most all other mentions in The Bible about only the inhospitable part? Again, I'm not denying that the Sodomites wanted the men; the issue is whether the judgment had to do with them wanting the men, wanting to rape someone, or being inhospitable to strangers. The latter seems most likely to me because that's the theme at the core of that story, that Lot is being hospitable to the strangers while the Sodomites are not, and that's supported by both other mentions in The Bible of that story. It seems strange to focus on the homosexuality when even the rest of The Bible doesn't focus on that. You have me at a loss, sir. Off the top of my head I can think of two other mentions (one in Matthew and the other in Revelation) and neither deals with lack of hospitality. The one in Matthew says in effect that the Sodomites got off easier than those who refuse to hear the message of Christ. For me this was not hard to figure out, as I had already read Revelation which makes the distinction between the First Death (the death of the mortal life) and the Second Death (the eternal damnation of the soul).
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 23, 2020 4:34:30 GMT
If they "all go together" then why are most all other mentions in The Bible about only the inhospitable part? Again, I'm not denying that the Sodomites wanted the men; the issue is whether the judgment had to do with them wanting the men, wanting to rape someone, or being inhospitable to strangers. The latter seems most likely to me because that's the theme at the core of that story, that Lot is being hospitable to the strangers while the Sodomites are not, and that's supported by both other mentions in The Bible of that story. It seems strange to focus on the homosexuality when even the rest of The Bible doesn't focus on that. You have me at a loss, sir. Off the top of my head I can think of two other mentions (one in Matthew and the other in Revelation) and neither deals with lack of hospitality. The one in Matthew says in effect that the Sodomites got off easier than those who refuse to hear the message of Christ. For me this was not hard to figure out, as I had already read Revelation which makes the distinction between the First Death (the death of the mortal life) and the Second Death (the eternal damnation of the soul). There's more mentions than that. See here: www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg193.htm
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 23, 2020 4:42:52 GMT
You have me at a loss, sir. Off the top of my head I can think of two other mentions (one in Matthew and the other in Revelation) and neither deals with lack of hospitality. The one in Matthew says in effect that the Sodomites got off easier than those who refuse to hear the message of Christ. For me this was not hard to figure out, as I had already read Revelation which makes the distinction between the First Death (the death of the mortal life) and the Second Death (the eternal damnation of the soul). There's more mentions than that. See here: www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg193.htm There's nothing in Genesis to suggest that the Sodomites knew the two strangers were angels, but they knew they were males.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Feb 23, 2020 6:08:20 GMT
There's nothing in Genesis to suggest that the Sodomites knew the two strangers were angels, but they knew they were males. I agree with this. That site only mentions that possibility for completion's sake, but I agree it's implausible for the reason you give. However, I mostly posted that link for you to read the other mentions of Sodom elsewhere in The Bible.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Feb 23, 2020 7:18:54 GMT
There's nothing in Genesis to suggest that the Sodomites knew the two strangers were angels, but they knew they were males. I agree with this. That site only mentions that possibility for completion's sake, but I agree it's implausible for the reason you give. However, I mostly posted that link for you to read the other mentions of Sodom elsewhere in The Bible. TBH I had forgotten about the reference in Jude and "strange flesh," but that's a story for another day. 
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