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Post by Nora on Feb 26, 2020 1:31:18 GMT
Could Weinstein ever get a fair trial? He just did. how do you know/ why do you think that he did? |
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Post by Nora on Feb 26, 2020 1:41:08 GMT
No. Because he has too much money and power and thus he will only get the absolute minimum of what he deserves. interesting argument. However do you really think he still has the power and money needed to do that? He is reportedly worth 50 mil now yes but compared to his previous wealth that’s nothing, and considering his expenses now, that sum might fairly soon diminish significantly. But more importantly, does he have the status needed for that? Mind you, Several Lawyers abandoned him. Many of his long term partners and collaborators disowned him. I am sure he still has some backers left, yes, but I wouldn’t overestimate his actual influence over the system now. I guess we will see. But if you were right well that’s injustice on its own... again speaking in favor of robots  |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Feb 26, 2020 2:48:01 GMT
No. Because he has too much money and power and thus he will only get the absolute minimum of what he deserves. interesting argument. However do you really think he still has the power and money needed to do that? He is reportedly worth 50 mil now yes but compared to his previous wealth that’s nothing, and considering his expenses now, that sum might fairly soon diminish significantly. But more importantly, does he have the status needed for that? Mind you, Several Lawyers abandoned him. Many of his long term partners and collaborators disowned him. I am sure he still has some backers left, yes, but I wouldn’t overestimate his actual influence over the system now. I guess we will see. But if you were right well that’s injustice on its own... again speaking in favor of robots 50 million dollars...imagine the exact same allegations against a bus driver worth less than 50 million pennies. He'd have gotten Guilty on all five counts. Us feeling sorry for the fairness of his trial is like a starving Ethiopian kid worrying about our steak getting overcooked. Except Harvey asked for an overcooked steak, he just thought he didn't have to pay for it. Fortunately because he's Harvey Weinstein, he only has to pay 40%. |
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Post by dianachristensen on Feb 26, 2020 3:13:41 GMT
interesting argument. However do you really think he still has the power and money needed to do that? He is reportedly worth 50 mil now yes but compared to his previous wealth that’s nothing, and considering his expenses now, that sum might fairly soon diminish significantly. But more importantly, does he have the status needed for that? Mind you, Several Lawyers abandoned him. Many of his long term partners and collaborators disowned him. I am sure he still has some backers left, yes, but I wouldn’t overestimate his actual influence over the system now. I guess we will see. But if you were right well that’s injustice on its own... again speaking in favor of robots 50 million dollars...imagine the exact same allegations against a bus driver worth less than 50 million pennies. He'd have gotten Guilty on all five counts. Us feeling sorry for the fairness of his trial is like a starving Ethiopian kid worrying about our steak getting overcooked. Except Harvey asked for an overcooked steak, he just thought he didn't have to pay for it. Fortunately because he's Harvey Weinstein, he only has to pay 40%. You wrote the shit out of that; it's one of the better things I've seen written on the internet, ever. Great metaphor, imagery, everything.
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Post by dianachristensen on Feb 26, 2020 3:19:20 GMT
Could Weinstein ever get a fair trial? He just did. how do you know/ why do you think that he did? Why are you wasting our time? Read up. How are you barfing up all of these pointless, irrelevant words on court proceedings you still have not read one word of the trial coverage on other than "Guilty"? This is a joke to you? Women being violently raped is just another opportunity for old Nora to remind everyone she's supercool with misogyny because she's not one of those yucky feminists? It's not a feminist issue. It's a human rights issue. What is wrong with you?
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Post by Nora on Feb 26, 2020 3:37:48 GMT
interesting argument. However do you really think he still has the power and money needed to do that? He is reportedly worth 50 mil now yes but compared to his previous wealth that’s nothing, and considering his expenses now, that sum might fairly soon diminish significantly. But more importantly, does he have the status needed for that? Mind you, Several Lawyers abandoned him. Many of his long term partners and collaborators disowned him. I am sure he still has some backers left, yes, but I wouldn’t overestimate his actual influence over the system now. I guess we will see. But if you were right well that’s injustice on its own... again speaking in favor of robots 50 million dollars...imagine the exact same allegations against a bus driver worth less than 50 million pennies. He'd have gotten Guilty on all five counts. Us feeling sorry for the fairness of his trial is like a starving Ethiopian kid worrying about our steak getting overcooked. Except Harvey asked for an overcooked steak, he just thought he didn't have to pay for it. Fortunately because he's Harvey Weinstein, he only has to pay 40%. well yes money can buy you better lawyers thats for sure. but thats for another debate. i dont really feel sorry for weinstein at this point, from all i know he Does seem to be a creep (with criminal behavior) who abused his position. but even Those people deserve a fair trial. Regardless of what horrible things they may have done. But I am interested in exploring the concept of fairness under the era of new technology and after the mental shift from “innocent till guilty” to “guilty right after accused”. I dont really have solutions but want to highlight how we (aka the society) seem to ignore the punishment we (as society) inflict on people even before official justice enforcers can carry it out within the established law enforecement framework. Its all fine and dandy to POTENTIALLY do to Harvey (and Spacet and Lois ck and Woody Allen) but we also do it to the Richard Jewels of the world... and sometimes, just sometimes it may not be as clear where on the line of Harvey to Richard the subject of our collective punishment is. With deepfakes and angry twittersphere ans cancell culture, this doesnt make you feel uneasy with how justice system may be potentially influanced by all of this? Contra Points (my current favorite philosopher) has a really great video on this... |
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Post by Nora on Feb 26, 2020 3:52:35 GMT
how do you know/ why do you think that he did? Why are you wasting our time? Read up. How are you barfing up all of these pointless, irrelevant words on court proceedings you still have not read one word of the trial coverage on other than "Guilty"? This is a joke to you? Women being violently raped is just another opportunity for old Nora to remind everyone she's supercool with misogyny because she's not one of those yucky feminists? It's not a feminist issue. It's a human rights issue. What is wrong with you? come on now. there is no need for this approach. a) you dont need to “waste your time” answering, should you feel its a waste of your time, just dont answer. I think you know me well enough by now to know I wont force or badger you in order of getting you to keep on responding. I fully accept people having free will to answer or not. b) please dont twist my words though . I have not said or indicated I am “cool with misogyny”. I am interested in exploring the framework of justice, sometimes that is connected to cases related to sexual predators, sometimes murderers, sometimes those that are innocent and wrongly accused. c) I have read quite a lot of the trial coverage and have been following the case for a long time. I said before that I didnt watch the deliberations. d) I am not expressing personal opinion on the adequacy of his verdict or on if I find it matching his criminal conduct or not. I am simply interested in discussing the ovearching aspect of such highly medialized case being so exposed. I thought that was clear. The polling results surprised me. I expected most people to have a similar reaction like you and voting clearly for yes. As of now thats not the case. its actually pretty even. That itself shows that there is some polarity and it may be a topic worth exploring more. Obviously not for you, which is of course fine... PS - I also didnt label this as a feminist issue so no need to correct me on that. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Feb 26, 2020 4:31:19 GMT
50 million dollars...imagine the exact same allegations against a bus driver worth less than 50 million pennies. He'd have gotten Guilty on all five counts. Us feeling sorry for the fairness of his trial is like a starving Ethiopian kid worrying about our steak getting overcooked. Except Harvey asked for an overcooked steak, he just thought he didn't have to pay for it. Fortunately because he's Harvey Weinstein, he only has to pay 40%. You wrote the shit out of that; it's one of the better things I've seen written on the internet, ever. Great metaphor, imagery, everything. And that's one of the better responses to something I've written. Thank you. |
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Post by Stammerhead on Feb 26, 2020 12:04:58 GMT
The rape allegations are murky at best. Weinstein abused his privilege but so does the media and so-called justice system. One man’s horniness and a handful of spoiled bitter starlets is not the most relevant or important thing to outcry over, especially when the truth gets distorted. The case wasn’t about his “horniness”, it was about his behaviour and criminal activity. And as usual your show your own bias against the women who accused him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 12:48:01 GMT
I always find it a little too coincidental that a lot of these celebrities that get charged for being rapists or pedophiles wind up in hospital just before or after they are sentenced to go to prison and looking back there has been at least 8 cases I can think of this happening with and I think they are faking it to try and get out of going to prison. 
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2020 12:55:56 GMT
Yeah but you really have to question if these women would have been given a fair trial too if this court case happened twenty years ago 'cause there were female celebrities that talked about male Directors and Producers like Harvey years ago that had their careers destroyed and a lot of people didn't take them seriously back. I personally found an interview with Alicia Silverstone suspicious in the late 90s where she talked about Directors wanting her to sleep with them to get roles and how she wasn't going to sleep her way to the top like some other actresses were doing at the time 'cause her career was never the same after and some people say about 'Batman & Robin' being the thing that destroyed but the same doesn't hold true for any of the other actors that were in that movie.
Uma Thurman went on to do the 'Kill Bill' movies. George Clooney become an A Lister and Chris O'Donnell got a leading role in 'NCIS: Los Angeles' meanwhile Alicia went from being one of the most popular upcoming actresses to getting hardly any movie roles after what she let out in that interview. My point is though if this had been back then there is a good chance Harvey wouldn't have ever went to court.
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Post by RiP, IMDb on Feb 26, 2020 13:06:34 GMT
I always find it a little too coincidental that a lot of these celebrities that get charged for being rapists or pedophiles wind up in hospital just before or after they are sentenced to go to prison and looking back there has been at least 8 cases I can think of this happening with and I think they are faking it to try and get out of going to prison. 
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Post by Nora on Feb 26, 2020 13:18:20 GMT
Yeah but you really have to question if these women would have been given a fair trial too if this court case happened twenty years ago 'cause there were female celebrities that talked about male Directors and Producers like Harvey years ago that had their careers destroyed and a lot of people didn't take them seriously back. I personally found an interview with Alicia Silverstone suspicious in the late 90s where she talked about Directors wanting her to sleep with them to get roles and how she wasn't going to sleep her way to the top like some other actresses were doing at the time 'cause her career was never the same after and some people say about 'Batman & Robin' being the thing that destroyed but the same doesn't hold true for any of the other actors that were in that movie.
Uma Thurman went on to do the 'Kill Bill' movies. George Clooney become an A Lister and Chris O'Donnell got a leading role in 'NCIS: Los Angeles' meanwhile Alicia went from being one of the most popular upcoming actresses to getting hardly any movie roles after what she let out in that interview. My point is though if this had been back then there is a good chance Harvey wouldn't have ever went to court. Yeah I agree, they wouldn’t have and he wouldn’t have... |
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Post by Stammerhead on Feb 26, 2020 14:53:15 GMT
The case wasn’t about his “horniness”, it was about his behaviour and criminal activity. And as usual your show your own bias against the women who accused him. I’d say the irony behind the bias of what has been brought up about this 3 ring circus has been lost on you Stamm but that doesn’t surprise me. If Weinstein is criminal, so are a whole lot more that allowed this to fester for as long as it did. I express no sentiment, nor do I wallow in phony sympathy for this fake milieu. He still wasn’t on trial for his “horniness”. What you say about the people surrounding around him who could and should have spoken up is true though. Things have to start somewhere.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Feb 26, 2020 15:23:27 GMT
Could Weinstein ever get a fair trial? He just did. how do you know/ why do you think that he did? ...As fair a trial as he ever could given all the circumstances. Not perfect, but not un-fair.
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Post by Stammerhead on Feb 26, 2020 15:29:20 GMT
He still wasn’t on trial for his “horniness”. What you say about the people surrounding around him who could and should have spoken up is true though. Things have to start somewhere. I’d say his horniness is what triggered the starlets and this was his mo, his quid pro quo. Yes, it has to start somewhere, but even that route appears to have not been well navigated or properly delineated. It could have been a shortcut, it was just hidden by lies and deceit and fairness and justice always loses its way when disorientated. Yep, rape and abuse tends to trigger starlets.
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