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Post by bluerisk on Apr 21, 2020 17:04:56 GMT
According to the Norwegian Institute of Public Health the pandemic is under control in Norway Of course this is just the first wave. At the price of a lock down what will cost you bitterly. Well, Norway is a rather small country with great wealth reserves, but most European nations will fall into a deep depression, and poverty kills too. And the most people who died, or whose lives has been saved so far are people who would have, or will die within this year due to their severe medical preconditions. We won next to nothing, but the loses will be staggering. Aside how easy most fundamental rights have been forfeited due to pure speculations. One can give a flu or cold virus a new name, and declare its properties and potential risks as unknown, and use it as an excuse to totally by-pass our constitution and the rule of law - like in a bad Hollywood movie. SARS was a SARSr-CoV strain (related to the current SARS-CoV-2) which infected and killed less people then a regular flu...but it was SARS that went through the media...but the without this hype and massive overreaction. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_swine_flu_pandemic#Comparisons_to_other_pandemics_and_epidemics2019–20 seasonal flu - ongoing - infections: about 800,000,000 ; deaths 450,000 to 1,200,000 vs. Carona: infection 2,200,000 million* ; deaths 130,000 According to several studies up to 96% of all cases are unreported. Hence the true number of infection might be in the range of 50 million...still only 1/10 of the flu, but this would also correct the death rate to a far lower level. Or the numbers of the great SARS outbreak: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome#Epidemiologyinfections (Probable!): 8096 Deaths: 774 I guess most cases remained unreported what led to a death rate of almost 10%. Sweden does it right.
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Post by bluerisk on Apr 21, 2020 17:21:19 GMT
Yay, I guess? Good job on curbing the spread of the virus, but it's a bit of cold comfort when you're admitting you dodged a bullet because it would've been total devastation considering the healthcare system is in complete disarray. Hopefully this opens some doors to major changes over there. Ah, the fear of the collapse of our health system(s): www.zeit.de/wissen/2020-04/krankenhaeuser-kapazitaeten-coronavirus-patienten-deutschlandThe numbers for Germany: Intensive care beds in Germany overall: 28,000+ (also stated in the article) Intensive care bed occupied by patients: 10,340 Occupied by Corona patients (including the ones imported form Italy and France for whom tax payers like me have to pay the bills): 1,853 (=>6,6% of all ICBs). While Corona patients take up less then 7% off all beds, nearly two thirds of all intensive care beds are not in use. Do you have the numbers for your country...the actual ones?! Or do you just spread further the panic and hysteria of your media?! When I was in hospital in 2013, the nurses were all the time complaining how understaffed they were - even to us patients- , but all the time I saw them in their little station ward chatting, eating, playing computer games, doing stuff with their cell phones or were ignoring patients. And also back then they had limited resources (hospitals have been closed in large numbers over the last years): First I had to wait hours in the ER, then I was transferred for one night to the surgery, then oncology (on the same floor with the pediatrics - I guess the little ones shall learn quickly were the journey ends for us) and only then to urology.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 21, 2020 18:09:38 GMT
Yay, I guess? Good job on curbing the spread of the virus, but it's a bit of cold comfort when you're admitting you dodged a bullet because it would've been total devastation considering the healthcare system is in complete disarray. Hopefully this opens some doors to major changes over there. Ah, the fear of the collapse of our health system(s): www.zeit.de/wissen/2020-04/krankenhaeuser-kapazitaeten-coronavirus-patienten-deutschlandThe numbers for Germany: Intensive care beds in Germany overall: 28,000+ (also stated in the article) Intensive care bed occupied by patients: 10,340 Occupied by Corona patients (including the ones imported form Italy and France for whom tax payers like me have to pay the bills): 1,853 (=>6,6% of all ICBs). While Corona patients take up less then 7% off all beds, nearly two thirds of all intensive care beds are not in use. Do you have the numbers for your country...the actual ones?! Or do you just spread further the panic and hysteria of your media?! When I was in hospital in 2013, the nurses were all the time complaining how understaffed they were - even to us patients- , but all the time I saw them in their little station ward chatting, eating, playing computer games, doing stuff with their cell phones or were ignoring patients. And also back then they had limited resources (hospitals have been closed in large numbers over the last years): First I had to wait hours in the ER, then I was transferred for one night to the surgery, then oncology (on the same floor with the pediatrics - I guess the little ones shall learn quickly were the journey ends for us) and only then to urology. I was commenting on the situation in Portugal as presented in that article. They were patting themselves on the back while admitting their healthcare system sucks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 18:55:04 GMT
Not a cold comfort knowing government acted swiftly and protected it's high risk aged population from this disease, considering nearly a quarter of Portugal's population is in that category, their death figures are a considerable achievement..(though maybe those figures are doctored slightly, like the Brits and Americans are currently doing..who knows?)
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Apr 21, 2020 19:08:57 GMT
Just got back from the supermarket.
People are getting testy out there. Myself included.
I don't know about anybody else's supermarket - but mine has taped arrows on the floor up and down every aisle every so feet directing traffic on which way one should go to maintain social distancing - if you miss/forget an item - there's no way to backtrack unless you break the rules and walk against the arrows - I forgot a cucumber in the produce section and had to backtrack back from the deli on the opposite end of the store - it caused quite a commotion folks and I got more than one nasty look ......
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Post by bluerisk on Apr 21, 2020 19:22:04 GMT
Just got back from the supermarket. People are getting testy out there. Myself included. I don't know about anybody else's supermarket - but mine has taped arrows on the floor up and down every aisle every so feet directing traffic on which way one should go to maintain social distancing - if you miss/forget an item - there's no way to backtrack unless you break the rules and walk against the arrows - I forgot a cucumber in the produce section and had to backtrack back from the deli on the opposite end of the store - it caused quite a commotion folks and I got more than one nasty look ...... ...as long as it wasn't the German stare of Death. www.quora.com/Whats-up-with-the-overtly-hostile-death-stare-that-German-people-do
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 21, 2020 19:35:02 GMT
Not a cold comfort knowing government acted swiftly and protected it's high risk aged population from this disease, considering nearly a quarter of Portugal's population is in that category, their death figures are a considerable achievement..(though maybe those figures are doctored slightly, like the Brits and Americans are currently doing..who knows?) I wasn't trying to come off as hostile, it's obviously great that they've been able to contain covid-19 as well as they have. It's just a strange quote in the article where they're essentially admitting they'd be worse off than everyone else had it gotten out of control. Maybe they should look into that.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Apr 21, 2020 19:44:56 GMT
I found out last night that an old friend has it. So he's now recovering but I found today that another friend has it and is now in critical care.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2020 20:16:42 GMT
The only thing strange in the two articles I linked was your ability to highlight two negatives and immediately jump to the conclusion that Portugal's healthcare system is a complete mess. Have you ever visited a medical facility/hospital in Portugal? I'm not going to say it's finest in the world, but trust me, the level of professionalism and care is comparable with any other respected nations healthcare system.
Do you think any healthcare system in the world would have coped with around a quarter of it's population arriving on mass with covid-19??
Hell, we got two of the most 'respected' healthcare systems in the world struggling to cope with a fraction of what could have been in Portugal, shudder to think what state those 'respected' healthcare systems would be in right now given the same circumstances.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 22, 2020 12:56:54 GMT
The only thing strange in the two articles I linked was your ability to highlight two negatives and immediately jump to the conclusion that Portugal's healthcare system is a complete mess. Have you ever visited a medical facility/hospital in Portugal? I'm not going to say it's finest in the world, but trust me, the level of professionalism and care is comparable with any other respected nations healthcare system. Do you think any healthcare system in the world would have coped with around a quarter of it's population arriving on mass with covid-19?? Hell, we got two of the most 'respected' healthcare systems in the world struggling to cope with a fraction of what could have been in Portugal, shudder to think what state those 'respected' healthcare systems would be in right now given the same circumstances. Those weren't my words, boss.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 22, 2020 19:50:05 GMT
The only thing strange in the two articles I linked was your ability to highlight two negatives and immediately jump to the conclusion that Portugal's healthcare system is a complete mess. Have you ever visited a medical facility/hospital in Portugal? I'm not going to say it's finest in the world, but trust me, the level of professionalism and care is comparable with any other respected nations healthcare system. Do you think any healthcare system in the world would have coped with around a quarter of it's population arriving on mass with covid-19?? Hell, we got two of the most 'respected' healthcare systems in the world struggling to cope with a fraction of what could have been in Portugal, shudder to think what state those 'respected' healthcare systems would be in right now given the same circumstances. Those weren't my words, boss. Not that what you pointed out is incorrect, but no matter how good your healthcare system may be, there are always going to be two strategies when we talk about managing any pandemic. Long-term strategies of having quality healthcare like those of countries like Germany, UK, Sweden, Norway, Finland and France etc. And a short-term immediate strategy that is devised by the government of any country and that people of any country have to execute in accordance with the directions of government. Countries like France and UK had good healthcare but that didn't stop the pandemic from taking a heavy toll. Portugal succeeded in its short-term (immediate strategy) and I think Zahir (who is from Portugal based on his football threads) was alluding to that. I do give Portugal credit for that. That said if this thing stretches for long then countries will have to continuously revise and monitor their short term strategies. India for example has succeeded with their short-term strategies (they were screening tourists before European countries, went early with a very restrictive lockdown and some other things). India's death per million so far is way down at 0.5. But India will have to open up its economy soon as it can't sustain for long. Then your point will be valid. What about the extremely bad healthcare system of India? Wouldn't we be in immense problem soon? I hope not but world does not work on hope. We could soon be in immense problem because of the bad state of our healthcare facilities.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 22, 2020 19:55:54 GMT
Those weren't my words, boss. Not that what you pointed out is incorrect, but no matter how good your healthcare system may be, there are always going to be two strategies when we talk about managing any pandemics. Long-term strategies of having quality healthcare like those of countries like Germany, UK, Sweden, Norway, Finland and France etc. And a short-term immediate strategy that is devised by the government of any country and that people of any country have to execute in accordance with the directions of government. Countries like France and UK had good healthcare but that didn't stop the pandemic from taking a heavy toll. Portugal succeeded in its short-term (immediate strategy) and I think Zahir (who is from Portugal based on his football threads) was alluding to that. I do give Portugal credit for that. That said if this thing stretches for long then countries will have to continuously revise and monitor their short term strategies. India for example has succeeded with their short-term strategies (they were screening tourists before European countries, went early with a very restrictive lockdown and some other things). India's death per million so far is way down at 0.5. But India will have to open up its economy soon as it can't sustain for long. Then your point will be valid. What about the extremely bad healthcare system of India? Wouldn't we be in immense problem soon? I hope not but world does not work on hope. We could soon be in immense problem because of the bad state of our healthcare facilities. Honestly I didn't think I had much of a point. I wasn't criticizing Portugal. I commented on the observation presented in the article itself. As I've said multiple times now, it's great Portugal got ahead of the curve on this pandemic. I just think it's almost a backhanded compliment to yourself when you praise your reaction to the pandemic while commenting on 'the frailty' of your healthcare system in general.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 22, 2020 20:15:32 GMT
I'm sure population density will be a big factor. I think that Worldometers site breaks down the stats on USA states - might be interesting looking at density vs rates there as well. Although other factors as well, e.g. concentration of foreign visitors to New York must have been a factor. Is Finland the same as Sweden? I'm sure I read somewhere they weren't doing a full lockdown... Sweden's case is becoming more and more bizarre. The Swedish Public Health Agency said yesterday that 600,000 Coronavirus infections could be expected by May 1. Today, they said that was an error but didn't give any explanation as to why the error occurred. Ok, I have this to share this time. If we look at only closed cases - the cases which gets closed by either death or recovery - the Sweden's numbers are outliers. Closed Cases Italy - Recovered 68 %/ Deaths 32 % Spain - Recovered 80 %/ Deaths 20 % France - Recovered 66%/ Deaths 34 % Germany - Recovered 95 %/ Deaths 5 % US - Recovered 64% / Deaths 36% UK - NA Denmark - Recovered 93 %/ Deaths 7 % Sweden - Recovered 22%/ Deaths 78 % I seem to not understand that. Okay, but wait. Norway reports just 32 recovered and 187 deaths. So may be Norway and Sweden have some different criteria for what is considered recovered? Also, Sweden total death per million now 192 against Norway's 32 and Denmark's 66. Could Sweden have a point at the end? Or could they end seeing more loss than gain? Time will tell.
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Post by millar70 on Apr 22, 2020 20:27:58 GMT
Well, there are reports starting to brew up that potentially millions of folks in Los Angeles county probably got the virus in the last 6 months, and barely over 500 people have died, 95% of which are the elderly or people with pre-existing conditions.
On a personal note, I've now lost 3 hours of pay this week already because I'm not allowed on public transit if there's already a certain amount of people on a bus or train. Even the folks who are working are now being screwed.
You could fit the amount of dead in California from this virus into a small dance club on a Friday night, yet millions are now unemployed and not sure when they will be working again.
I remember my family life when I was a teenager. If my brothers and sisters were stuck in the house this long, war would have already commenced. Yes, there are families that can handle this, but I guarantee there are families right now who are really suffering at the hands of abusive fathers, mothers, husbands, and wives.
Two years ago, close to 60,000 people died from the flu in the United States, a little more than that in 2009 with the swine flu, but 22,000,000 people didn't lose their livelihoods over it. Meanwhile, our already bloated deficit is now hitting Chris Farley levels of bloat.
And oh yeah, the food supply is dwindling, something you never hear from the media or the people in charge.
Basically, it's getting time to take the ship out of dry-dock and get things sailing again.....and soon. If this is our life in a couple of months when it gets hot and sticky outside, then things really might start taking a very awful turn.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Apr 23, 2020 10:26:57 GMT
I'm sure population density will be a big factor. I think that Worldometers site breaks down the stats on USA states - might be interesting looking at density vs rates there as well. Although other factors as well, e.g. concentration of foreign visitors to New York must have been a factor. Is Finland the same as Sweden? I'm sure I read somewhere they weren't doing a full lockdown... Sweden's case is becoming more and more bizarre. The Swedish Public Health Agency said yesterday that 600,000 Coronavirus infections could be expected by May 1. Today, they said that was an error but didn't give any explanation as to why the error occurred. Ok, I have this to share this time. If we look at only closed cases - the cases which gets closed by either death or recovery - the Sweden's numbers are outliers. Closed Cases Italy - Recovered 68 %/ Deaths 32 % Spain - Recovered 80 %/ Deaths 20 % France - Recovered 66%/ Deaths 34 % Germany - Recovered 95 %/ Deaths 5 % US - Recovered 64% / Deaths 36% UK - NA Denmark - Recovered 93 %/ Deaths 7 % Sweden - Recovered 22%/ Deaths 78 % I seem to not understand that. Okay, but wait. Norway reports just 32 recovered and 187 deaths. So may be Norway and Sweden have some different criteria for what is considered recovered? Also, Sweden total death per million now 192 against Norway's 32 and Denmark's 66. Could Sweden have a point at the end? Or could they end seeing more loss than gain? Time will tell. Couple of interesting graphs re the Sweden situation:- ibb.co/SQwhKzp (Sweden vs other locked down countries) ibb.co/qNkbNdY (Sweden vs Scandinavian neighbours) (I stole these from this thread on LetsRun - www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9920248&page=21 ) So looks like their numbers are worse than those locally but not widely worse off than elsewhere where lockdowns are being applied. Of course we should expect their deaths per million to be higher just now as they aren't containing spread as fully. However the question will be, what happens in the coming weeks / months? |
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 23, 2020 11:01:30 GMT
Sweden's case is becoming more and more bizarre. The Swedish Public Health Agency said yesterday that 600,000 Coronavirus infections could be expected by May 1. Today, they said that was an error but didn't give any explanation as to why the error occurred. Ok, I have this to share this time. If we look at only closed cases - the cases which gets closed by either death or recovery - the Sweden's numbers are outliers. Closed Cases Italy - Recovered 68 %/ Deaths 32 % Spain - Recovered 80 %/ Deaths 20 % France - Recovered 66%/ Deaths 34 % Germany - Recovered 95 %/ Deaths 5 % US - Recovered 64% / Deaths 36% UK - NA Denmark - Recovered 93 %/ Deaths 7 % Sweden - Recovered 22%/ Deaths 78 % I seem to not understand that. Okay, but wait. Norway reports just 32 recovered and 187 deaths. So may be Norway and Sweden have some different criteria for what is considered recovered? Also, Sweden total death per million now 192 against Norway's 32 and Denmark's 66. Could Sweden have a point at the end? Or could they end seeing more loss than gain? Time will tell. Couple of interesting graphs re the Sweden situation:- ibb.co/SQwhKzp (Sweden vs other locked down countries) ibb.co/qNkbNdY (Sweden vs Scandinavian neighbours) (I stole these from this thread on LetsRun - www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9920248&page=21 ) So looks like their numbers are worse than those locally but not widely worse off than elsewhere where lockdowns are being applied. Of course we should expect their deaths per million to be higher just now as they aren't containing spread as fully. However the question will be, what happens in the coming weeks / months? Positive Covid-19 identified here in my building. About 40 minutes back I was going for grocery...I found lift was closed. Went all the way from 13th floor to GF and asked why the lift is not working. Staff said a positive identified on 3rd floor of your building. Went to shop and from there itself I saw 10-15 masked people came to seal off building. I had to walk 13 floors up with 2 bags. Feel like dead now.
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Post by sjg on Apr 23, 2020 11:28:13 GMT
Positive Covid-19 identified here in my building. About 40 minutes back I was going for grocery...I found lift was closed. Went all the way from 13th floor to GF and asked why the lift is not working. Staff said a positive identified on 3rd floor of your building. Went to shop and from there itself I saw 10-15 masked people came to seal off building. I had to walk 13 floors up with 2 bags. Feel like dead now. Oh no, stay safe AJ! Think positive, it sounds like you will be getting plenty of exercise
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 23, 2020 11:35:15 GMT
Positive Covid-19 identified here in my building. About 40 minutes back I was going for grocery...I found lift was closed. Went all the way from 13th floor to GF and asked why the lift is not working. Staff said a positive identified on 3rd floor of your building. Went to shop and from there itself I saw 10-15 masked people came to seal off building. I had to walk 13 floors up with 2 bags. Feel like dead now. Oh no, stay safe AJ! Think positive, it sounds like you will be getting plenty of exercise They came to our floor and knocked on everyone's door and took contact info and other details. Asked us to inform if we have any symptoms. I am not sure if we will be allowed to go out of our building for a while. Although they didn't say we can't leave. But most buildings that have been sealed off in Bombay, people are usually quarantined completely. Good thing is that whichever buildings have been sealed, either government or building management provides grocery needs. I am not sure what procedure will be followed here. I have food for up to 5 days but I will try to go out for grocery on Monday and see if I am allowed to leave the building. I am stupid a man as one can be. I have lived here for 9 months now and yet don't have any contact info of the staff here. My phone linked to the office building is not working and I never bothered with it. Still the management of this building is very caring/cooperative so I don't have any reason to panic.
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Post by sjg on Apr 23, 2020 11:38:34 GMT
Oh no, stay safe AJ! Think positive, it sounds like you will be getting plenty of exercise They came to our floor and knocked on everyone's door and took contact info and other details. Asked us to inform if we have any symptoms. I am not sure if we will be allowed to go out of our building for a while. Although they didn't say we can't leave. But most buildings that have been sealed off in Bombay, people are usually quarantined completely. Good thing is that whichever buildings have been sealed, either government or building management provides grocery needs. I am not sure what procedure will be followed here. I have food for up to 5 days but I will try to go out for grocery on Monday and see if I am allowed to leave the building. I am stupid a man as one can be. I have lived here for 9 months now and yet don't have any contact info of the staff here. My phone linked to the office building is not working and I never bothered with it. Still the management of this building is very caring/cooperative so I don't have any reason to panic. Good luck, it's maybe time to inquire about getting the phone working. Hopefully then you will get looked after and can ride it out in safety.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Apr 23, 2020 11:45:16 GMT
Oh no, stay safe AJ! Think positive, it sounds like you will be getting plenty of exercise They came to our floor and knocked on everyone's door and took contact info and other details. Asked us to inform if we have any symptoms. I am not sure if we will be allowed to go out of our building for a while. Although they didn't say we can't leave. But most buildings that have been sealed off in Bombay, people are usually quarantined completely. Good thing is that whichever buildings have been sealed, either government or building management provides grocery needs. I am not sure what procedure will be followed here. I have food for up to 5 days but I will try to go out for grocery on Monday and see if I am allowed to leave the building. I am stupid a man as one can be. I have lived here for 9 months now and yet don't have any contact info of the staff here. My phone linked to the office building is not working and I never bothered with it. Still the management of this building is very caring/cooperative so I don't have any reason to panic. Hope you stay safe, nobbi. Good to see your building factors are taking this seriously.
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