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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 11, 2020 2:44:38 GMT
What about the situation with Bucky? Steve was okay with just letting his best friend be brainwashed into killing Tony’s parents? That just makes Steve sound like a selfish asshole. Actually it doesn't, Steve know the end result from 2023 atleast that happens if he allows Bucky to be brainwashed and kept on ice, it prevents Thanos wiping out half the universe permanently, he has no clue how things unfold if he messes with major events, like the lives of those who fought Thanos, it's a moral quandary to save trillions Steve must let his best friend become The Winter Soldier, also Steve doesn't for sure know when or what could alter time and how, he doesn't know events unfold the same way he knows they did in "his" timeline, for all he knows things changed and the intel he knows is no longer good and trying to act will only cause greater problems, maybe even get Bucky killed.
Bucky had no involvement in bringing back half the universe. He was one of the people who was wiped out. Besides, I could just as easily argue that if Bucky hadn’t killed Tony’s parents, the Avengers wouldn’t have broken up, meaning that they could’ve been more prepared to face Thanos. Also, if Steve decided to stay in the shadows because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then maybe he shouldn’t have altered history to begin with by becoming Peggy’s husband... Seriously, this idea that Steve was Peggy’s husband all along creates a lot more problems than it supposedly solves. I don’t understand why you guys are fond of that idea.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 11, 2020 17:02:23 GMT
What about the situation with Bucky? Steve was okay with just letting his best friend be brainwashed into killing Tony’s parents? That just makes Steve sound like a selfish asshole. Actually it doesn't, Steve know the end result from 2023 atleast that happens if he allows Bucky to be brainwashed and kept on ice, it prevents Thanos wiping out half the universe permanently, he has no clue how things unfold if he messes with major events, like the lives of those who fought Thanos, it's a moral quandary to save trillions Steve must let his best friend become The Winter Soldier, also Steve doesn't for sure know when or what could alter time and how, he doesn't know events unfold the same way he knows they did in "his" timeline, for all he knows things changed and the intel he knows is no longer good and trying to act will only cause greater problems, maybe even get Bucky killed.
Exactly.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Mar 11, 2020 17:07:17 GMT
The Peggy timeline is not the MCU, but a branched reality.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 11, 2020 17:27:07 GMT
Actually it doesn't, Steve know the end result from 2023 atleast that happens if he allows Bucky to be brainwashed and kept on ice, it prevents Thanos wiping out half the universe permanently, he has no clue how things unfold if he messes with major events, like the lives of those who fought Thanos, it's a moral quandary to save trillions Steve must let his best friend become The Winter Soldier, also Steve doesn't for sure know when or what could alter time and how, he doesn't know events unfold the same way he knows they did in "his" timeline, for all he knows things changed and the intel he knows is no longer good and trying to act will only cause greater problems, maybe even get Bucky killed.
Bucky had no involvement in bringing back half the universe. He was one of the people who was wiped out. Besides, I could just as easily argue that if Bucky hadn’t killed Tony’s parents, the Avengers wouldn’t have broken up, meaning that they could’ve been more prepared to face Thanos. Also, if Steve decided to stay in the shadows because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then maybe he shouldn’t have altered history to begin with by becoming Peggy’s husband... Seriously, this idea that Steve was Peggy’s husband all along creates a lot more problems than it supposedly solves. I don’t understand why you guys are fond of that idea. No but Bucky caused events to happen that led up to where they were when they fought Thanos. Because of the split there was a team on Titan helping the Guardians (who would have died to Thanos). That team held Thanos back long enough for Thor to create Stormbreaker and get back to Earth. The team actually needed to be split. And Cap didn't know where they took Bucky. So how would he stop him from being brainwashed? Was he suppose to then be Stark's bodyguard trying to stop a much younger (and by then stronger) Bucky? We don't know if Peggy got married in the 1st timeline. And people knew about her having a husband so he didn't absolutely stay in the shadows. He just lived as a normal person or had a secret identity.
Not all along. Just after Steve went back in time the 1st time. And how would it cause more problems? You just want him to be super action man after he went back in time... Which would be the thing that causes all the problems.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 11, 2020 17:28:04 GMT
Maybe he did split reality and the version we see in the MCUverse is not the original one. I think this is what some aren't getting that we've been saying.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 11, 2020 18:38:50 GMT
Bucky had no involvement in bringing back half the universe. He was one of the people who was wiped out. Besides, I could just as easily argue that if Bucky hadn’t killed Tony’s parents, the Avengers wouldn’t have broken up, meaning that they could’ve been more prepared to face Thanos. Also, if Steve decided to stay in the shadows because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then maybe he shouldn’t have altered history to begin with by becoming Peggy’s husband... Seriously, this idea that Steve was Peggy’s husband all along creates a lot more problems than it supposedly solves. I don’t understand why you guys are fond of that idea. No but Bucky caused events to happen that led up to where they were when they fought Thanos. Because of the split there was a team on Titan helping the Guardians (who would have died to Thanos). That team held Thanos back long enough for Thor to create Stormbreaker and get back to Earth. The team actually needed to be split. And Cap didn't know where they took Bucky. So how would he stop him from being brainwashed? Was he suppose to then be Stark's bodyguard trying to stop a much younger (and by then stronger) Bucky? We don't know if Peggy got married in the 1st timeline. And people knew about her having a husband so he didn't absolutely stay in the shadows. He just lived as a normal person or had a secret identity.
Not all along. Just after Steve went back in time the 1st time. And how would it cause more problems? You just want him to be super action man after he went back in time... Which would be the thing that causes all the problems.
Once again, if the argument is that Steve didn’t do anything because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then he shouldn’t have altered the timeline to begin with by marrying Peggy. He already caused changes in the timeline when he did that. You’re telling me that Steve is willing to alter history when it comes to satisfying his boner, but he’s not willing to do it when it means preventing bad things from happening? That just makes him sound like an asshole. Besides, even if he didn’t know where they took Bucky, you’d think he would’ve informed his wife that HYDRA had infiltrated the organization that she’s running. You’re telling me that Steve just spent eighty years doing nothing other than sitting on his ass and doing the nasty with Peggy?
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Post by dazz on Mar 11, 2020 19:30:44 GMT
No but Bucky caused events to happen that led up to where they were when they fought Thanos. Because of the split there was a team on Titan helping the Guardians (who would have died to Thanos). That team held Thanos back long enough for Thor to create Stormbreaker and get back to Earth. The team actually needed to be split. And Cap didn't know where they took Bucky. So how would he stop him from being brainwashed? Was he suppose to then be Stark's bodyguard trying to stop a much younger (and by then stronger) Bucky? We don't know if Peggy got married in the 1st timeline. And people knew about her having a husband so he didn't absolutely stay in the shadows. He just lived as a normal person or had a secret identity.
Not all along. Just after Steve went back in time the 1st time. And how would it cause more problems? You just want him to be super action man after he went back in time... Which would be the thing that causes all the problems.
Once again, if the argument is that Steve didn’t do anything because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then he shouldn’t have altered the timeline to begin with by marrying Peggy. He already caused changes in the timeline when he did that. You’re telling me that Steve is willing to alter history when it comes to satisfying his boner, but he’s not willing to do it when it means preventing bad things from happening? That just makes him sound like an asshole. Besides, even if he didn’t know where they took Bucky, you’d think he would’ve informed his wife that HYDRA had infiltrated the organization that she’s running. You’re telling me that Steve just spent eighty years doing nothing other than sitting on his ass and doing the nasty with Peggy? 1: Telling Peggy about Hydra is an even bigger alteration than saving Bucky, for the world to be in the shape it was in to allow for the events that unfold to take shape the bad things have to be allowed to happen as well as the good, minor changes maybe fine, major ones are absolutely not, Cap marries Peggy is a minor change, Cap prevents TWS programme and the infestation of Hydra is a major change which could easily lead to the unified but overwhelmed Avengers ending up being massacred by Thanos outright in his attempt to get the stones.
2: You also are assuming Cap makes the choice on his own, thing is we don't know how/why Cap did make that choice, maybe the Ancient One told him what his destiny was, maybe Red Skull did, maybe Steve used the time stone himself to check for himself, we just don't know why he did what he did.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 11, 2020 19:38:49 GMT
Once again, if the argument is that Steve didn’t do anything because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then he shouldn’t have altered the timeline to begin with by marrying Peggy. He already caused changes in the timeline when he did that. You’re telling me that Steve is willing to alter history when it comes to satisfying his boner, but he’s not willing to do it when it means preventing bad things from happening? That just makes him sound like an asshole. Besides, even if he didn’t know where they took Bucky, you’d think he would’ve informed his wife that HYDRA had infiltrated the organization that she’s running. You’re telling me that Steve just spent eighty years doing nothing other than sitting on his ass and doing the nasty with Peggy? 1: Telling Peggy about Hydra is an even bigger alteration than saving Bucky, for the world to be in the shape it was in to allow for the events that unfold to take shape the bad things have to be allowed to happen as well as the good, minor changes maybe fine, major ones are absolutely not, Cap marries Peggy is a minor change, Cap prevents TWS programme and the infestation of Hydra is a major change which could easily lead to the unified but overwhelmed Avengers ending up being massacred by Thanos outright in his attempt to get the stones.
2: You also are assuming Cap makes the choice on his own, thing is we don't know how/why Cap did make that choice, maybe the Ancient One told him what his destiny was, maybe Red Skull did, maybe Steve used the time stone himself to check for himself, we just don't know why he did what he did.
How is marrying Peggy a “minor change”? She was the Director of SHIELD. We’re really supposed to believe that her knowing that Captain America is still alive and having kids with him didn’t alter history in any meaningful way?
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Post by dazz on Mar 11, 2020 20:12:38 GMT
1: Telling Peggy about Hydra is an even bigger alteration than saving Bucky, for the world to be in the shape it was in to allow for the events that unfold to take shape the bad things have to be allowed to happen as well as the good, minor changes maybe fine, major ones are absolutely not, Cap marries Peggy is a minor change, Cap prevents TWS programme and the infestation of Hydra is a major change which could easily lead to the unified but overwhelmed Avengers ending up being massacred by Thanos outright in his attempt to get the stones.
2: You also are assuming Cap makes the choice on his own, thing is we don't know how/why Cap did make that choice, maybe the Ancient One told him what his destiny was, maybe Red Skull did, maybe Steve used the time stone himself to check for himself, we just don't know why he did what he did.
How is marrying Peggy a “minor change”? She was the Director of SHIELD. We’re really supposed to believe that her knowing that Captain America is still alive and having kids with him didn’t alter history in any meaningful way? To Steve it wouldn't, she would still have the happy life with the man she loved, had kids and such, so long as he doesn't tell her about future events specifically and simply encouraged her to follow her own instincts as she would normally do events wouldn't change much.
And whose to say what changes knowing Cap is alive would cause, if any if this is a temporal loop, you are trying to infer this is a change to the history of the MCU as we know it, if Cap was always her husband then the events that led up to the MCU as we saw it would be the same because it was always that way things were we just didn't know it yet.
Only thing that changes is our perspective not the events themselves, Steve being in the past is new information but not new events, therefor nothing changes except how we look at the past and how we think of it going forward.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 11, 2020 20:42:17 GMT
No but Bucky caused events to happen that led up to where they were when they fought Thanos. Because of the split there was a team on Titan helping the Guardians (who would have died to Thanos). That team held Thanos back long enough for Thor to create Stormbreaker and get back to Earth. The team actually needed to be split. And Cap didn't know where they took Bucky. So how would he stop him from being brainwashed? Was he suppose to then be Stark's bodyguard trying to stop a much younger (and by then stronger) Bucky? We don't know if Peggy got married in the 1st timeline. And people knew about her having a husband so he didn't absolutely stay in the shadows. He just lived as a normal person or had a secret identity.
Not all along. Just after Steve went back in time the 1st time. And how would it cause more problems? You just want him to be super action man after he went back in time... Which would be the thing that causes all the problems.
Once again, if the argument is that Steve didn’t do anything because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then he shouldn’t have altered the timeline to begin with by marrying Peggy. He already caused changes in the timeline when he did that. You’re telling me that Steve is willing to alter history when it comes to satisfying his boner, but he’s not willing to do it when it means preventing bad things from happening? That just makes him sound like an asshole. Besides, even if he didn’t know where they took Bucky, you’d think he would’ve informed his wife that HYDRA had infiltrated the organization that she’s running. You’re telling me that Steve just spent eighty years doing nothing other than sitting on his ass and doing the nasty with Peggy? Because what he changed didn't change much. Yes he married Peggy, but from the view of an already altered timeline Peggy wasn't married to anyone else. So if Steve went in and tried to stop HYDRA from taking over SHIELD with no information other than Arnim Zola was a part of it, then where would that lead him? With a butterfly effect that would change the course of history with events happening at different times, not at all or worse than it would have happened before. Because Steve went and tried to "save" SHIELD then there might not be an Avengers. They might not have found where Steve was buried. The Starks could be killed before they had Tony. HYDRA could realize that Captain America is still alive and kill Bucky before they make him into the Winter Soldier. Do you not understand how messing with major events in time through time travel works?
And what would telling Peggy about HYDRA do? He doesn't know when they started infiltrating SHIELD. Again, all he knows is that Arnim Zola is a part of it. There is absolutely no way for them to know who is and isn't HYDRA.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 11, 2020 20:44:13 GMT
Once again, if the argument is that Steve didn’t do anything because he didn’t want to alter the timeline, then he shouldn’t have altered the timeline to begin with by marrying Peggy. He already caused changes in the timeline when he did that. You’re telling me that Steve is willing to alter history when it comes to satisfying his boner, but he’s not willing to do it when it means preventing bad things from happening? That just makes him sound like an asshole. Besides, even if he didn’t know where they took Bucky, you’d think he would’ve informed his wife that HYDRA had infiltrated the organization that she’s running. You’re telling me that Steve just spent eighty years doing nothing other than sitting on his ass and doing the nasty with Peggy? Because what he changed didn't change much. Yes he married Peggy, but from the view of an already altered timeline Peggy wasn't married to anyone else. So if Steve went in and tried to stop HYDRA from taking over SHIELD with no information other than Arnim Zola was a part of it, then where would that lead him? With a butterfly effect that would change the course of history with events happening at different times, not at all or worse than it would have happened before. Because Steve went and tried to "save" SHIELD then there might not be an Avengers. They might not have found where Steve was buried. The Starks could be killed before they had Tony. HYDRA could realize that Captain America is still alive and kill Bucky before they make him into the Winter Soldier. Do you not understand how messing with major events in time through time travel works?
And what would telling Peggy about HYDRA do? He doesn't know when they started infiltrating SHIELD. Again, all he knows is that Arnim Zola is a part of it. There is absolutely no way for them to know who is and isn't HYDRA. HYDRA didn’t kill Bucky when they found out Captain America was alive in 2011, so there’s that. Besides, if the argument is that HYDRA knowing he’s still alive would harm the timeline, then maybe he shouldn’t have married the director of SHIELD...
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Post by dazz on Mar 11, 2020 20:49:24 GMT
Because what he changed didn't change much. Yes he married Peggy, but from the view of an already altered timeline Peggy wasn't married to anyone else. So if Steve went in and tried to stop HYDRA from taking over SHIELD with no information other than Arnim Zola was a part of it, then where would that lead him? With a butterfly effect that would change the course of history with events happening at different times, not at all or worse than it would have happened before. Because Steve went and tried to "save" SHIELD then there might not be an Avengers. They might not have found where Steve was buried. The Starks could be killed before they had Tony. HYDRA could realize that Captain America is still alive and kill Bucky before they make him into the Winter Soldier. Do you not understand how messing with major events in time through time travel works?
And what would telling Peggy about HYDRA do? He doesn't know when they started infiltrating SHIELD. Again, all he knows is that Arnim Zola is a part of it. There is absolutely no way for them to know who is and isn't HYDRA. HYDRA didn’t kill Bucky when they found out Captain America was alive in 2011, so there’s that. After 70 years of having him under control, and advancing their ability to control him, no way they are as confident 60-70 years earlier.
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Post by dazz on Mar 11, 2020 20:52:55 GMT
Because what he changed didn't change much. Yes he married Peggy, but from the view of an already altered timeline Peggy wasn't married to anyone else. So if Steve went in and tried to stop HYDRA from taking over SHIELD with no information other than Arnim Zola was a part of it, then where would that lead him? With a butterfly effect that would change the course of history with events happening at different times, not at all or worse than it would have happened before. Because Steve went and tried to "save" SHIELD then there might not be an Avengers. They might not have found where Steve was buried. The Starks could be killed before they had Tony. HYDRA could realize that Captain America is still alive and kill Bucky before they make him into the Winter Soldier. Do you not understand how messing with major events in time through time travel works?
And what would telling Peggy about HYDRA do? He doesn't know when they started infiltrating SHIELD. Again, all he knows is that Arnim Zola is a part of it. There is absolutely no way for them to know who is and isn't HYDRA. Besides, if the argument is that HYDRA knowing he’s still alive would harm the timeline, then maybe he shouldn’t have married the director of SHIELD... Except it isn't publicly known he had, the MCU has those face mask things that Widow used in TWS to pretend to be a WSC member, in public Steve may have gone by another name and face or stayed out of the public eye all together, including Hydra's gaze.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 11, 2020 20:55:29 GMT
Besides, if the argument is that HYDRA knowing he’s still alive would harm the timeline, then maybe he shouldn’t have married the director of SHIELD... Except it isn't publicly known he had, the MCU has those face mask things that Widow used in TWS to pretend to be a WSC member, in public Steve may have gone by another name and face or stayed out of the public eye all together, including Hydra's gaze. All I’m saying is that he’s already taking a pretty big risk by doing that. Besides, he already meddled in a different timeline when he made some HYDRA agents think he was one of them. How does he know that didn’t screw over that timeline?
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 11, 2020 21:06:41 GMT
Except it isn't publicly known he had, the MCU has those face mask things that Widow used in TWS to pretend to be a WSC member, in public Steve may have gone by another name and face or stayed out of the public eye all together, including Hydra's gaze. All I’m saying is that he’s already taking a pretty big risk by doing that. Besides, he already meddled in a different timeline when he made some HYDRA agents think he was one of them. How does he know that didn’t screw over that timeline? Because it did. Everything they did when they went back in time created a new timeline (even Clint taking that glove). But what Cap did when he went back to Peggy (something he knew he did when he saw his picture on her desk) was keep the current timeline going. Again, Cap had kids with Peggy. If he'd used the pad to get back to this timeline from an alternate one, he wouldn't have been able to see his kids again. He was anchored to this timeline and not the one with his kids.
Also, that gave me a thought. His kids would be mutants. They'd have the super soldier serum in them.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 11, 2020 21:10:05 GMT
All I’m saying is that he’s already taking a pretty big risk by doing that. Besides, he already meddled in a different timeline when he made some HYDRA agents think he was one of them. How does he know that didn’t screw over that timeline? Because it did. Everything they did when they went back in time created a new timeline (even Clint taking that glove). But what Cap did when he went back to Peggy (something he knew he did when he saw his picture on her desk) was keep the current timeline going. Again, Cap had kids with Peggy. If he'd used the pad to get back to this timeline from an alternate one, he wouldn't have been able to see his kids again. He was anchored to this timeline and not the one with his kids.
Also, that gave me a thought. His kids would be mutants. They'd have the super soldier serum in them.
I highly doubt that’s how mutants will be brought over to the MCU.
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Post by dazz on Mar 11, 2020 21:19:05 GMT
All I’m saying is that he’s already taking a pretty big risk by doing that. Besides, he already meddled in a different timeline when he made some HYDRA agents think he was one of them. How does he know that didn’t screw over that timeline? Because it did. Everything they did when they went back in time created a new timeline (even Clint taking that glove). But what Cap did when he went back to Peggy (something he knew he did when he saw his picture on her desk) was keep the current timeline going. Again, Cap had kids with Peggy. If he'd used the pad to get back to this timeline from an alternate one, he wouldn't have been able to see his kids again. He was anchored to this timeline and not the one with his kids.
Also, that gave me a thought. His kids would be mutants. They'd have the super soldier serum in them.
Not really, would depend on if the serum stayed in his system or simply altered his genetics, if the serum was in his system and keeping him as Cap, ie they could potentially drain the serum out of him which seems likely as that's why they tried recreating the serum with his blood, then that wouldn't be passed on, if it altered his genetics then he would pass on the enhanced genes, ala The Flash or someone like that.
Also I don't think they would be mutants per say, but mutates I think, mutants are naturally occurring where as mutates are made iirc, Spidey is not a mutant for example neither is Deadpool typically I don't think, or maybe they would be because it is naturally occurring for them...I dunno.
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Post by Vassaggo on Mar 12, 2020 0:41:12 GMT
Because it did. Everything they did when they went back in time created a new timeline (even Clint taking that glove). But what Cap did when he went back to Peggy (something he knew he did when he saw his picture on her desk) was keep the current timeline going. Again, Cap had kids with Peggy. If he'd used the pad to get back to this timeline from an alternate one, he wouldn't have been able to see his kids again. He was anchored to this timeline and not the one with his kids.
Also, that gave me a thought. His kids would be mutants. They'd have the super soldier serum in them.
Not really, would depend on if the serum stayed in his system or simply altered his genetics, if the serum was in his system and keeping him as Cap, ie they could potentially drain the serum out of him which seems likely as that's why they tried recreating the serum with his blood, then that wouldn't be passed on, if it altered his genetics then he would pass on the enhanced genes, ala The Flash or someone like that.
Also I don't think they would be mutants per say, but mutates I think, mutants are naturally occurring where as mutates are made iirc, Spidey is not a mutant for example neither is Deadpool typically I don't think, or maybe they would be because it is naturally occurring for them...I dunno.
A few big if's coming. IF the serum effected his genetics and IF they effected his Reproductive Genes and IF only giving half his genes gave his kids Powers then I would consider them mutants not mutates. Just maybe not X Gene Mutants. They would get their powers naturally from their father who got them unnaturally. Scientifically speaking a mutant is just a being that has a mutated genetic structure (ie changed from normal). We have to distinguish in Marvel between a lower case mutant and an upper case Mutant because of the X Gene and the new "species." Isn't Franklin Richards considered a Mutant? I don't remember if Franklin has the X gene or if his powers just come from his Mutate Parents.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 12, 2020 21:43:06 GMT
Because it did. Everything they did when they went back in time created a new timeline (even Clint taking that glove). But what Cap did when he went back to Peggy (something he knew he did when he saw his picture on her desk) was keep the current timeline going. Again, Cap had kids with Peggy. If he'd used the pad to get back to this timeline from an alternate one, he wouldn't have been able to see his kids again. He was anchored to this timeline and not the one with his kids.
Also, that gave me a thought. His kids would be mutants. They'd have the super soldier serum in them.
Not really, would depend on if the serum stayed in his system or simply altered his genetics, if the serum was in his system and keeping him as Cap, ie they could potentially drain the serum out of him which seems likely as that's why they tried recreating the serum with his blood, then that wouldn't be passed on, if it altered his genetics then he would pass on the enhanced genes, ala The Flash or someone like that.
Also I don't think they would be mutants per say, but mutates I think, mutants are naturally occurring where as mutates are made iirc, Spidey is not a mutant for example neither is Deadpool typically I don't think, or maybe they would be because it is naturally occurring for them...I dunno.
I don't know. It changed him a lot physically instead of just giving him strength and speed without the body to go with it. His kids should be more like Franklin Richards. Peter is a mutate, but Mayday Parker should be a mutant. But looking at their wikis, they have both James Rogers (Steve and Natasha's son) and Mayday as mutates. I'm thinking they did that so Fox wouldn't have gotten to them. If both of them were classified as mutants then Fox could have made James Rogers: Captain America and Spider-girl movies.
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Post by dazz on Mar 12, 2020 21:56:29 GMT
Not really, would depend on if the serum stayed in his system or simply altered his genetics, if the serum was in his system and keeping him as Cap, ie they could potentially drain the serum out of him which seems likely as that's why they tried recreating the serum with his blood, then that wouldn't be passed on, if it altered his genetics then he would pass on the enhanced genes, ala The Flash or someone like that.
Also I don't think they would be mutants per say, but mutates I think, mutants are naturally occurring where as mutates are made iirc, Spidey is not a mutant for example neither is Deadpool typically I don't think, or maybe they would be because it is naturally occurring for them...I dunno.
I don't know. It changed him a lot physically instead of just giving him strength and speed without the body to go with it. His kids should be more like Franklin Richards. Peter is a mutate, but Mayday Parker should be a mutant. But looking at their wikis, they have both James Rogers (Steve and Natasha's son) and Mayday as mutates. I'm thinking they did that so Fox wouldn't have gotten to them. If both of them were classified as mutants then Fox could have made James Rogers: Captain America and Spider-girl movies. I think it depends on if the serum altered his genes to make him that buff or if they just supercharged his body whilst the serum remained inside of it, like if the serum is in him still you can use his blood to synthesise your own serum based on the trace amounts in the sample, and you could revert him to skinny Steve if you siphoned all the serum out of him, you couldn't do that if his genetics were changed...I don't think atleast.
As for Franklin and May-Day I doubt that's why, probably is a distinction between naturally occurring mutated humans and altered super humans, though Franklin and May Day inherit their powers they still come from a unnatural alteration to their parents DNA, where as Mutants do occur naturally hence how mutants can be born to non-mutant parents and such, I guess you can also then have Mutant Mutates...would that be what Beast is?
I doubt the labelling has anything to do with the Fox deal, Franklin was a F4 character, they owned the rights to that, so labelling him a mutate makes no sense anyway, but also Fox owner the rights to the Mutants as a name and then X-Men derivative characters, Spidey character are Spidey characters, and Marvel wouldn't give a shit, Sony owns Spidey film wise why would they care if Fox and Sony started suing each other or using the others characters?
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