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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 12, 2020 21:57:44 GMT
Because it did. Everything they did when they went back in time created a new timeline (even Clint taking that glove). But what Cap did when he went back to Peggy (something he knew he did when he saw his picture on her desk) was keep the current timeline going. Again, Cap had kids with Peggy. If he'd used the pad to get back to this timeline from an alternate one, he wouldn't have been able to see his kids again. He was anchored to this timeline and not the one with his kids.
Also, that gave me a thought. His kids would be mutants. They'd have the super soldier serum in them.
I highly doubt that’s how mutants will be brought over to the MCU. Didn't say that was how. Was just saying they would be mutants because of their parentage.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 12, 2020 22:06:55 GMT
I don't know. It changed him a lot physically instead of just giving him strength and speed without the body to go with it. His kids should be more like Franklin Richards. Peter is a mutate, but Mayday Parker should be a mutant. But looking at their wikis, they have both James Rogers (Steve and Natasha's son) and Mayday as mutates. I'm thinking they did that so Fox wouldn't have gotten to them. If both of them were classified as mutants then Fox could have made James Rogers: Captain America and Spider-girl movies. I think it depends on if the serum altered his genes to make him that buff or if they just supercharged his body whilst the serum remained inside of it, like if the serum is in him still you can use his blood to synthesise your own serum based on the trace amounts in the sample, and you could revert him to skinny Steve if you siphoned all the serum out of him, you couldn't do that if his genetics were changed...I don't think atleast.
As for Franklin and May-Day I doubt that's why, probably is a distinction between naturally occurring mutated humans and altered super humans, though Franklin and May Day inherit their powers they still come from a unnatural alteration to their parents DNA, where as Mutants do occur naturally hence how mutants can be born to non-mutant parents and such, I guess you can also then have Mutant Mutates...would that be what Beast is?
I doubt the labelling has anything to do with the Fox deal, Franklin was a F4 character, they owned the rights to that, so labelling him a mutate makes no sense anyway, but also Fox owner the rights to the Mutants as a name and then X-Men derivative characters, Spidey character are Spidey characters, and Marvel wouldn't give a shit, Sony owns Spidey film wise why would they care if Fox and Sony started suing each other or using the others characters?
Or use his DNA.
Franklin Richards is classified as a mutant. Since Days of Future Past I think. Don't think it mattered if he was classified that way since Fox already had the F4 and mutants. In the beginning, mutants came about when parents were hit with radiation and past that on to their kids (Beast's dad worked around radiation).
There was a time when Marvel stopped making mutant characters so Fox wouldn't get more characters to work with. You also had that time when Marvel changed Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch away from being mutants. Yeah, they'd do stuff like that to bend the rules.
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Post by dazz on Mar 12, 2020 22:19:40 GMT
I think it depends on if the serum altered his genes to make him that buff or if they just supercharged his body whilst the serum remained inside of it, like if the serum is in him still you can use his blood to synthesise your own serum based on the trace amounts in the sample, and you could revert him to skinny Steve if you siphoned all the serum out of him, you couldn't do that if his genetics were changed...I don't think atleast.
As for Franklin and May-Day I doubt that's why, probably is a distinction between naturally occurring mutated humans and altered super humans, though Franklin and May Day inherit their powers they still come from a unnatural alteration to their parents DNA, where as Mutants do occur naturally hence how mutants can be born to non-mutant parents and such, I guess you can also then have Mutant Mutates...would that be what Beast is?
I doubt the labelling has anything to do with the Fox deal, Franklin was a F4 character, they owned the rights to that, so labelling him a mutate makes no sense anyway, but also Fox owner the rights to the Mutants as a name and then X-Men derivative characters, Spidey character are Spidey characters, and Marvel wouldn't give a shit, Sony owns Spidey film wise why would they care if Fox and Sony started suing each other or using the others characters?
Or use his DNA.
Franklin Richards is classified as a mutant. Since Days of Future Past I think. Don't think it mattered if he was classified that way since Fox already had the F4 and mutants. In the beginning, mutants came about when parents were hit with radiation and past that on to their kids (Beast's dad worked around radiation).
There was a time when Marvel stopped making mutant characters so Fox wouldn't get more characters to work with. You also had that time when Marvel changed Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch away from being mutants. Yeah, they'd do stuff like that to bend the rules.
Lol misread Franklin & James's placements, whoopsie.
But yeah Marvel/Disney will fuck around to bend the rules for their benefit there is none to separate Mayday from Fox, like I said why would Disney care if Sony and Fox tied themselves up in litigation for years to where they could be prevented from making new films in the meantime there by running out their clocks reverting the IP's back to Marvel?
Franklin though being a mutant makes sense, maybe he didn't inherit powers from his parents? he is just a mutant, his powers don't seem connected to Sue or Reed's powers or even Johnny's and mutant powers seem to be inherited due to similar DNA leading to similar mutations, the fact that Sue & Reed got powers via cosmic whatever is just a coincidence I guess.
As for Steve if his genetics were modified would their be elements of the serum in his blood still? if not wouldn't his gene's just be perfect and optimised human gene's? I mean they would know what the result of a super soldier serum would be but would they be able to figure out how to replicate the serum based on what it did to him without samples?
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 15, 2020 14:31:24 GMT
Or use his DNA.
Franklin Richards is classified as a mutant. Since Days of Future Past I think. Don't think it mattered if he was classified that way since Fox already had the F4 and mutants. In the beginning, mutants came about when parents were hit with radiation and past that on to their kids (Beast's dad worked around radiation).
There was a time when Marvel stopped making mutant characters so Fox wouldn't get more characters to work with. You also had that time when Marvel changed Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch away from being mutants. Yeah, they'd do stuff like that to bend the rules.
Lol misread Franklin & James's placements, whoopsie.
But yeah Marvel/Disney will fuck around to bend the rules for their benefit there is none to separate Mayday from Fox, like I said why would Disney care if Sony and Fox tied themselves up in litigation for years to where they could be prevented from making new films in the meantime there by running out their clocks reverting the IP's back to Marvel?
Franklin though being a mutant makes sense, maybe he didn't inherit powers from his parents? he is just a mutant, his powers don't seem connected to Sue or Reed's powers or even Johnny's and mutant powers seem to be inherited due to similar DNA leading to similar mutations, the fact that Sue & Reed got powers via cosmic whatever is just a coincidence I guess.
As for Steve if his genetics were modified would their be elements of the serum in his blood still? if not wouldn't his gene's just be perfect and optimised human gene's? I mean they would know what the result of a super soldier serum would be but would they be able to figure out how to replicate the serum based on what it did to him without samples?
But wouldn't that still be the same as other radioactive characters passing down to their kids? It's like the previous example of Hank McCoy's dad working in a nuclear power plant and being exposed to the radiation. Passing this on to his son who is born like that. A mutant. Yes, there are some that are randomly made a mutant by the chance lottery. There are also, some that are made mutants because of what their parents are (even if not a mutant themselves).
Yes, and he'd pass that on to his kid. And both Black Widow and Cap are super soldiers. So passing on those perfections down to a kid would still be a genetic anomaly. He'd be stronger, faster and tougher right out of the gate (so to speak). He wouldn't have to work for it like others. He'd have that advantage from birth given to him by what his parents are.
Also, this has gone so far off topic I think we need a compass to get us back.
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Post by summers8 on Mar 15, 2020 18:30:33 GMT
he didnt, call this mash up time travel tale.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Mar 16, 2020 1:06:41 GMT
I'm sure the Ancient One meant something else on there. It's not the removal of the Stones, it's about being in the past that creates a branched reality.
Found this on SCREENRANT:
"What that does leave is a pretty startling implication: this always happened. Rocket always stole the Aether from Jane, Howard Stark always bumped into grown-up Tony on the day of his son's birth, the Ancient One always talked to Banner four years before her death. It's a linear timeline and all of this was going on in the background of the MCU all along. While that's a retcon by anyone's reasoning, it is rather tight; none of the mentioned past-future interactions directly contradict the timeline."
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Post by dazz on Mar 16, 2020 6:35:20 GMT
I'm sure the Ancient One meant something else on there. It's not the removal of the Stones, it's about being in the past that creates a branched reality. Found this on SCREENRANT: "What that does leave is a pretty startling implication: this always happened. Rocket always stole the Aether from Jane, Howard Stark always bumped into grown-up Tony on the day of his son's birth, the Ancient One always talked to Banner four years before her death. It's a linear timeline and all of this was going on in the background of the MCU all along. While that's a retcon by anyone's reasoning, it is rather tight; none of the mentioned past-future interactions directly contradict the timeline." That screenrant thing is moronic because clearly that is not the case, being in the past does not change the timeline, events in the past can change the timeline but they need to be specific changes, such as what happened in NY, because what happened in NY DID change events as the Avengers knew it, Cap never fought himself and Loki did not escape so that timeline is a separate one from the one they are in otherwise Cap would not be surprised to be confronted by himself and Loki escaping and Tony seemingly having a heart attack would have been mentioned.
When they go back they can either cause changes or they can take actions that until then they had believed to be taken by other people, look at Harry Potter with the time turner, until they went back in time certain actions seemingly occur which in fact do not and certain things appear to be done for different intents, only when they go back in time and realise that the things they believed happened had not or that they were the ones who cause certain events which led to others because they were purposely recreating them or trying to help them in other ways.
Now Tony may have always met his father in the past, we don't know, unlikely given Pym particles being stolen is never mentioned and given how tightly wound Pym was seems like he would have made a fuss over that, same with we know Starlord didn't get knocked out in the normal timeline because if he had Thanos would never have been a problem, and as it's part of the same time travel event as Rocket in Asguard that never happens in the main timeline either, Cap going back to be with Peggy as well as Cap & Tony stealing shit before Tony was born are the only potential looped events we are shown, the fact the screenrant morons cannot get that shows how fucking embarrassingly low their standards are, then again these are the nitwits that thought Green Lantern made a profit because the movie grossed $20m more in ticket sales than it's budget was, they are thicker than 2 short places to put it nicely.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Mar 28, 2020 2:53:06 GMT
I always thought it seemed like this is what happens. When they go back in time to get the stones they changed history in those timelines but returned to their own. Steve just went off and made his own reality with Peggy and returned to his timeline with the Pym Particles. I don’t think he went to that bench when he got old I think he went back through the Quantum Realm and showed back up in his original timeline and showed up before they beamed young Steve Rogers back.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 28, 2020 3:06:20 GMT
I always thought it seemed like this is what happens. When they go back in time to get the stones they changed history in those timelines but returned to their own. Steve just went off and made his own reality with Peggy and returned to his timeline with the Pym Particles. I don’t think he went to that bench when he got old I think he went back through the Quantum Realm and showed back up in his original timeline and showed up before they beamed young Steve Rogers back. If he created a new timeline and went forward in time*, he would have gone to the future of the timeline he made.
*Don't think they can travel to the future. Just go back to their anchor point. And doing that would send them to the platform.
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Post by dazz on Mar 28, 2020 9:41:23 GMT
I always thought it seemed like this is what happens. When they go back in time to get the stones they changed history in those timelines but returned to their own. Steve just went off and made his own reality with Peggy and returned to his timeline with the Pym Particles. I don’t think he went to that bench when he got old I think he went back through the Quantum Realm and showed back up in his original timeline and showed up before they beamed young Steve Rogers back. Possible but then you have to ask when did he come back? before the battle with Thanos? so he was just hanging around for however long it took them to repair the machine as it needs to be on and operational for that to happen right? So kind of weird a major aspect to that story they never revealed or hinted at.
I think the thing is it's gotten mixed up I saw an interview with the writers and at that time they said Cap went back and was Peggy's husband all along, then the Russo's as they usually do over complicated everything by contradicting that and saying other stuff, it's amazing they make such good movies which in themselves are not that problematic but what they say afterwards just causes so many stupid issues with the timeline of the MCU, probably because they don't actually write the stories being told which maybe a blessing.
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Mar 28, 2020 11:47:33 GMT
I always thought it seemed like this is what happens. When they go back in time to get the stones they changed history in those timelines but returned to their own. Steve just went off and made his own reality with Peggy and returned to his timeline with the Pym Particles. I don’t think he went to that bench when he got old I think he went back through the Quantum Realm and showed back up in his original timeline and showed up before they beamed young Steve Rogers back. If he created a new timeline and went forward in time*, he would have gone to the future of the timeline he made.
*Don't think they can travel to the future. Just go back to their anchor point. And doing that would send them to the platform.
That’s not really how they explained it. Because when they went back they changed time by Loki escaping with the tessarect. I don’t believe they return to the future of the timeline change, it’s like you said... they return to their anchor point which was their timeline. I mean this is all conjecture on my part but I believe it’s a solid theory.
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Post by dazz on Mar 28, 2020 14:20:02 GMT
If he created a new timeline and went forward in time*, he would have gone to the future of the timeline he made.
*Don't think they can travel to the future. Just go back to their anchor point. And doing that would send them to the platform.
That’s not really how they explained it. Because when they went back they changed time by Loki escaping with the tessarect. I don’t believe they return to the future of the timeline change, it’s like you said... they return to their anchor point which was their timeline. I mean this is all conjecture on my part but I believe it’s a solid theory. Yeah I would think that they would have to travel back or forward as it were to their point of origin, only exception was Thanos and Nebula 2014, but both of those instances they jumped with people from that timeline in War Machine, Thor & Rocket and Nebula 2023 respectively, so theoretically they simply followed along their coattails.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 28, 2020 18:13:37 GMT
If he created a new timeline and went forward in time*, he would have gone to the future of the timeline he made.
*Don't think they can travel to the future. Just go back to their anchor point. And doing that would send them to the platform.
That’s not really how they explained it. Because when they went back they changed time by Loki escaping with the tessarect. I don’t believe they return to the future of the timeline change, it’s like you said... they return to their anchor point which was their timeline. I mean this is all conjecture on my part but I believe it’s a solid theory. They kinda did explain it like that. Hulk says that if they change things then that future is their future. If they tried to go to the future without their anchor, after Loki took the tessaract, they would have gone to that future. That's why I don't think Cap went back and changed anything. He wouldn't have been able to get back to that other timeline. He would have left his kids and maybe grandkids behind in that other timeline.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Mar 29, 2020 11:47:20 GMT
that's the problem with a messy time travel plot. what is worse is they start to use the time machine as a toy. its just typical of kiddie disney. there is no weight or seriousness to the consequences of time unlike a film like interstellar or arrival.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Mar 29, 2020 16:53:43 GMT
Well, he was a soldier first & foremost. He'd also been somewhat of a time traveller already. I think he realized via EG that he couldn't change anything & thus he would be the type not to worry or confront that. The stake of the entire universe was in play... a few terror attacks here & there can't underplay that.
We're talking about an Avenger... & yet the world even in their own real time wasn't saved on a daily basis from them. They weren't flying to beat up Putin or stop climate change.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 0:16:13 GMT
that's the problem with a messy time travel plot. what is worse is they start to use the time machine as a toy. its just typical of kiddie disney. there is no weight or seriousness to the consequences of time unlike a film like interstellar or arrival. How did they use it like a toy? Also with your constant use of kiddie, terrible grammar and nonsensical arguments you are definitely not one to be arguing that MCU is for kids.
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Post by dazz on Mar 30, 2020 1:25:04 GMT
that's the problem with a messy time travel plot. what is worse is they start to use the time machine as a toy. its just typical of kiddie disney. there is no weight or seriousness to the consequences of time unlike a film like interstellar or arrival. How did they use it like a toy? Also with your constant use of kiddie, terrible grammar and nonsensical arguments you are definitely not one to be arguing that MCU is for kids. That's the thing, MCU films are for teens and above really, he has the mind of a drunken 6 year old at the best of times, he resents them for being too mature for them so he craps on them for being "for kids".
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