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Post by dazz on Mar 18, 2020 8:36:56 GMT
All that really shows is how dense you are, he does not resemble the same character he began as because he has grown as a character, Thor 1 is Thor who has never faced adversity, never looked beyond himself and his own wants, he isn't a hero because he wants to help people he is a hero because he wants adulation and he craves battle, despite being 1500 years old Thor is emotionally immature in Thor 1, in Endgame this is a character who has emotionally run the gambit in the last 10 years, he fell in love, was betrayed by his brother, realised his own arrogance, lost his mother, father, had to kill his sister, reconnected with his brother only to watch him be murdered along with one of his best friends, fell out of love, and allowed for half the universe to be erased.
If a character goes through all of that and is still the same character or close to it the writer has failed in developing the character, I get Fat Thor isn't for everyone, and having issues with him being so is fair, as is his exact use in Endgame, I personally don't mind it as I think Thor sinking into depression over what happened and letting himself go works for the character though it should not be the new standard for the character going forward because now the universe has been restored and Thor should also get back to how he was before and no longer suffering from his depression to the degree he was, some underlying issues would be one thing, being fat and slobby is another.
thor went from the most bad ass avenger in the first film to a running gag joke by the last film? Like Nolan said, its how thor reacted to the depression. that seems to be the real stinker. People don't seem to like how thor got turned into a big fat slob joke Can you mcu fanatics stop defending idiotic writing that was dumbed down for kids. if he was suffering from depression, the movie never made it realistic. Please tells us again why MCU rejected the demon in the bottle story line from iron man 3. Yeah see the problem is I do criticise the MCU when I feel they do a poor job at writing, Thor reacted to his depression in a realistic way, because see depression can lead to all the things Thor exhibited in the film, which is not uncommon, see where everyone else found outlets for their situations Thor didn't, he not only was suffering from dfepression he had a breakdown, not surprising when his entire world view was shattered by Thanos, which is the significance of the Rocket/Thor scene in IW, Thor tells us his view on things, he cannot lose because fate wills it so, therefor any lose he suffers is fates will also, that all changes when Thanos wins, Thor was broken by the snap until he saw some hope but even then he doesn't get fixed instantly, that's not how things work, hope motivated Thor out of his depression but he was still suffering, when they win he breaks free even more hence his joining the Guardians rather than continuing to isolate himself away from life.
I would explain that to you if it were true, iirc they said don't emphasise the alcoholism aspect of the story, but that the storyline overall was a viable story to adapt, see that's the thing adaptions are things recreated to fit into a new form, otherwise it's a point for point remake, which never go over well, and yeah Disney weren't going to promote a mega blockbuster where a central theme of it is the lead characters crippling alcoholism...tell me what blockbusters do this?
Why do a booze storyline when they can do PTSD? which btw the reason they didn't do that storyline about him being a drunk wasn't because it wasn't suitable for kids but because as Shane Black put it...
So they cut it for that, and because they said doing that storyline and the Mandarin would short the story unfairly, better to do it right than do it half arsed basically.
But back to Thor yeah sure Thor having a emotional and mental breakdown sliding into depression because he failed to protect half the universe, after in a span of a week losing his brother, best friends, father, sister, home and all but 1/4 of a ships worth of his entire species, that's all for kids...the fact is Thor falling as he did does play well for kids, he's sad therefor he's fat, it's childlike logic hence you faint grasp of it congrats, but everything about his situation plays if you get it more, it's a scenario kills will love now and see more into in 5 years when they see past haha Fat Thor, they will be able to recognise the depression of the character that was being put across, it's sad your brain stopped developing when you were just a nipper it really is.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Mar 18, 2020 12:56:54 GMT
Again. I'll leave this scene here for you. This is Thor. He's a guy that uses humor to hide his pain. It's the same with Stark. You guys don't understand people. These characters are tragic. You only look at the surface. You need things handed to you and in your face. So has these movies ruined Thor? Not even close. For grown ups comic fans, the movie ruined thor. this is why Joker and Logan can be worthy of oscars and engdame cant be. joker can actually address the issues of depression that is fitting. a tragic character. unless you are a kid with some adhd issues, yes, the movies has ruined thor. its stupid you want to argue the characters are tragic, tragic characters dont bomb the place with kiddie jokes every 10 second to make things light. Fat Thor is no Charles Xavier from DOFP and no Joker, This scene is much superior. its written more for mature comic fans who can handle heavier subject matters disney banned in mcu movies. I can buy this is still the same Xavier in logan I think the backlash to thor was deserved. he has been ruined Great post.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 18, 2020 16:14:40 GMT
For grown ups comic fans, the movie ruined thor. this is why Joker and Logan can be worthy of oscars and engdame cant be. joker can actually address the issues of depression that is fitting. a tragic character. unless you are a kid with some adhd issues, yes, the movies has ruined thor. its stupid you want to argue the characters are tragic, tragic characters dont bomb the place with kiddie jokes every 10 second to make things light. Fat Thor is no Charles Xavier from DOFP and no Joker, This scene is much superior. its written more for mature comic fans who can handle heavier subject matters disney banned in mcu movies. I can buy this is still the same Xavier in logan I think the backlash to thor was deserved. he has been ruined Great post. Actually, it isn't. Thor went through a lot of tragedy in a short amount of time. Losing all his close ones. He tried to save the universe and failed. Royally. What happened to the Joker? A guy with mental health issues from the jump.
It's funny that he tred to use Joker as an example when talking about a tragic character not using humor to hide their pain... Then you also have Logan that has always used humor to hide his pain.
Here's Thor's scene from Endgame with his mom.
Scene has more weight to it than the one in DoFP because you don't care much about that Xavier. We actually saw why this Thor is like this. DoFP did it so Xavier wouldn't save the day in minutes.
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Mar 18, 2020 16:49:52 GMT
Actually, it isn't. Thor went through a lot of tragedy in a short amount of time. Losing all his close ones. He tried to save the universe and failed. Royally. What happened to the Joker? A guy with mental health issues from the jump.
It's funny that he tred to use Joker as an example when talking about a tragic character not using humor to hide their pain... Then you also have Logan that has always used humor to hide his pain.
Here's Thor's scene from Endgame with his mom.
Scene has more weight to it than the one in DoFP because you don't care much about that Xavier. We actually saw why this Thor is like this. DoFP did it so Xavier wouldn't save the day in minutes.
the scene does not have more weight to it than DOFP, its just bland denial. we care about Xavier more for two reasons. His story in xmen first class and much of DOFP when we first meet him as a broken man. You are shocked when xavier tells wolverine to fuck off in anger. when we see fat thor, we went what the hell. is this joke? and it was. this is why thor is ruined. we should not be seeing thor as joke . infact we should and cannot say how thor was like that because thor was never a clown. should be blame Thor 3? we can see why Xavier is like that because we saw him get paralysed in first class, we saw the plan for the mutant race, and for a whole all that was lost. xavier's personality is more fitting to the events of him dealing with depression. thor is not because nobody ever bought the drastic change in thor. Logan does not use joke like Disney style. dont go there. the logan director is not a mcu fan. you cannot defend childish mediocre writing like fat thor. Xavier depression was acclaimed in the film. I even remember the best supporting oscar talk for him. Fat thor was slammed by all. see the difference?
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thenolan
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Post by thenolan on Mar 18, 2020 16:53:15 GMT
For grown ups comic fans, the movie ruined thor. this is why Joker and Logan can be worthy of oscars and engdame cant be. joker can actually address the issues of depression that is fitting. a tragic character. unless you are a kid with some adhd issues, yes, the movies has ruined thor. its stupid you want to argue the characters are tragic, tragic characters dont bomb the place with kiddie jokes every 10 second to make things light. Fat Thor is no Charles Xavier from DOFP and no Joker, This scene is much superior. its written more for mature comic fans who can handle heavier subject matters disney banned in mcu movies. I can buy this is still the same Xavier in logan I think the backlash to thor was deserved. he has been ruined Great post. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. Thatguy is trying to argue a dumbed down story of depression slammed by fans and even critics is more heartfelt and better to another one that is not dumbed down. what he is doing is a fool's quest. Let's ask him who stands a chance of an oscar nomination. James Mcvoy or Chris Helmsworth for tackling the theme of depression. LMAO. Thor is ruined.
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Post by dazz on Mar 18, 2020 21:35:28 GMT
Actually, it isn't. Thor went through a lot of tragedy in a short amount of time. Losing all his close ones. He tried to save the universe and failed. Royally. What happened to the Joker? A guy with mental health issues from the jump.
It's funny that he tred to use Joker as an example when talking about a tragic character not using humor to hide their pain... Then you also have Logan that has always used humor to hide his pain.
Here's Thor's scene from Endgame with his mom.
Scene has more weight to it than the one in DoFP because you don't care much about that Xavier. We actually saw why this Thor is like this. DoFP did it so Xavier wouldn't save the day in minutes.
the scene does not have more weight to it than DOFP, its just bland denial. we care about Xavier more for two reasons. His story in xmen first class and much of DOFP when we first meet him as a broken man. You are shocked when xavier tells wolverine to fuck off in anger. when we see fat thor, we went what the hell. is this joke? and it was. this is why thor is ruined. we should not be seeing thor as joke . infact we should and cannot say how thor was like that because thor was never a clown. should be blame Thor 3? we can see why Xavier is like that because we saw him get paralysed in first class, we saw the plan for the mutant race, and for a whole all that was lost. xavier's personality is more fitting to the events of him dealing with depression. thor is not because nobody ever bought the drastic change in thor. Logan does not use joke like Disney style. dont go there. the logan director is not a mcu fan. you cannot defend childish mediocre writing like fat thor. Xavier depression was acclaimed in the film. I even remember the best supporting oscar talk for him. Fat thor was slammed by all. see the difference? Maybe you were shocked but no one else should have been, Xavier not being up to the challenge at first was obvious, he also didn't have an onscreen journey to that point so 90% of the weight to that moment is lost, FC left off with Xavier paralyzed but optimistic, DOFP has him walking and depressed, and nothing to do with his legs it's just an artificial issue created for the plot to drag things out for an extra 30 minutes or so, Xavier isn't depressed because of anything new but because of the pain he hears with his powers, powers he has had for 30+ years at that point, they had to create the excuse that people pulled their kids out of the school and the war all contributed to Xavier being in this place he was not on a path to being in when the last film ended, Thor's path is clear, Thor's fall is clear, he is Thor the God of Thunder, the will of fate has chosen him to be the greatest champion in the universe, all who face him fail, every challenge he faces he overcomes...until he meets Thanos, then he loses and he loses because of his ego and selfishness, he IS powerful enough to kill Thanos he WAS able to stop him, but his actions hid need to let Thanos know he was beaten gave Thanos the chance to succeed and then prevent anyone from rectifying his actions, we see Thor being broken piece by piece so his state after 5 years though jarring is also reasonable, also Thor's issues aren't fixed just when the film needs it to be, Thor's issue is ongoing where as Xavier's was instacured, that's fucking stupid.
Now Thor being fat being the butt of the jokes for it is a fair issue to have, kind of, everyone's flaws are used for humour, Banner is mocked for his timid or indecisiveness, Cap's wholesomeness and naivety is used for humour, Tony's inconsiderateness and recklessness, Widow's fluid morality, Clint's general weakness and so on.
Also no Thorbowski isn't universally criticised it's a divisive issue and for many reasons, and Thor is always kind of a clown, in every movie he's shown to be so, in multiple iterations of the character he's a goof to an extent, like every character it just depends on the type of story being told, or what is Frog Thor supposed to be taken deadly serious? again you dislike the choices they made, cool, so did some other people, but not EVERYONE agree's with you, and just because they don't doesn't mean oh they are Marvel kiddy fans, no stupid disagreeing with you doesn't make someone dumb, agreeing with you makes them seem dumb because you express yourself in a manner which is mentally incompetent, so agreeing with you is akin to going I agree with the village idiot.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Mar 18, 2020 21:48:14 GMT
All that really shows is how dense you are, he does not resemble the same character he began as because he has grown as a character, Thor 1 is Thor who has never faced adversity, never looked beyond himself and his own wants, he isn't a hero because he wants to help people he is a hero because he wants adulation and he craves battle, despite being 1500 years old Thor is emotionally immature in Thor 1, in Endgame this is a character who has emotionally run the gambit in the last 10 years, he fell in love, was betrayed by his brother, realised his own arrogance, lost his mother, father, had to kill his sister, reconnected with his brother only to watch him be murdered along with one of his best friends, fell out of love, and allowed for half the universe to be erased.
If a character goes through all of that and is still the same character or close to it the writer has failed in developing the character, I get Fat Thor isn't for everyone, and having issues with him being so is fair, as is his exact use in Endgame, I personally don't mind it as I think Thor sinking into depression over what happened and letting himself go works for the character though it should not be the new standard for the character going forward because now the universe has been restored and Thor should also get back to how he was before and no longer suffering from his depression to the degree he was, some underlying issues would be one thing, being fat and slobby is another.
thor went from the most bad ass avenger in the first film to a running gag joke by the last film? Like Nolan said, its how thor reacted to the depression. that seems to be the real stinker. People don't seem to like how thor got turned into a big fat slob joke Can you mcu fanatics stop defending idiotic writing that was dumbed down for kids. if he was suffering from depression, the movie never made it realistic. Please tells us again why MCU rejected the demon in the bottle story line from iron man 3. We get it, you're upset the MCU is successful and their characters are beloved. Move on, now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 0:10:03 GMT
Actually, it isn't. Thor went through a lot of tragedy in a short amount of time. Losing all his close ones. He tried to save the universe and failed. Royally. What happened to the Joker? A guy with mental health issues from the jump.
It's funny that he tred to use Joker as an example when talking about a tragic character not using humor to hide their pain... Then you also have Logan that has always used humor to hide his pain.
Here's Thor's scene from Endgame with his mom.
Scene has more weight to it than the one in DoFP because you don't care much about that Xavier. We actually saw why this Thor is like this. DoFP did it so Xavier wouldn't save the day in minutes.
the scene does not have more weight to it than DOFP, its just bland denial. we care about Xavier more for two reasons. His story in xmen first class and much of DOFP when we first meet him as a broken man. You are shocked when xavier tells wolverine to fuck off in anger. when we see fat thor, we went what the hell. is this joke? and it was. this is why thor is ruined. we should not be seeing thor as joke . infact we should and cannot say how thor was like that because thor was never a clown. should be blame Thor 3? we can see why Xavier is like that because we saw him get paralysed in first class, we saw the plan for the mutant race, and for a whole all that was lost. xavier's personality is more fitting to the events of him dealing with depression. thor is not because nobody ever bought the drastic change in thor. Logan does not use joke like Disney style. dont go there. the logan director is not a mcu fan. you cannot defend childish mediocre writing like fat thor. Xavier depression was acclaimed in the film. I even remember the best supporting oscar talk for him. Fat thor was slammed by all. see the difference? Wow the delusions from you and your sock accounts are astounding.
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Post by kleinreturns on Mar 19, 2020 3:02:13 GMT
They are all pretty much funnier than they are in the comics, but that's part of the reaso the whole thing has been successful. He's funny, but has a good arc too. He's a dick at the beginning of the first movie, a lost soul at points in the Avengers, but knows who he is by the time End Game comes around: a warrior. The warrior. He knows he's not a king, but is pretty much the most important leader on the "battlefield". Hulk was "ruined" more than Thor. It's a fucking disgrace they didn't let Hulk get another crack at Thanos.I get that they established NO ONE was gonig to beat him, but to not even let the Hulk be involved in beating was just a disservice to the character. successful? successful for the brainless audiences. MCU is now showing you cant buy authentic art with their success. Remember when I showed you the first thor poster vs thor jokenock. let me refersh your memory thor jokenork Anyone real marvel film will take thor 1 anyday over thor jokenork. ^^^Someone's bitter over the FOX-Men's defunct franchise is dead and buried. MAKE MINE MARVEL (MCU)!!!
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Post by kleinreturns on Mar 19, 2020 3:28:54 GMT
Actually, it isn't. Thor went through a lot of tragedy in a short amount of time. Losing all his close ones. He tried to save the universe and failed. Royally. What happened to the Joker? A guy with mental health issues from the jump.
It's funny that he tred to use Joker as an example when talking about a tragic character not using humor to hide their pain... Then you also have Logan that has always used humor to hide his pain.
Here's Thor's scene from Endgame with his mom.
Scene has more weight to it than the one in DoFP because you don't care much about that Xavier. We actually saw why this Thor is like this. DoFP did it so Xavier wouldn't save the day in minutes.
the scene does not have more weight to it than DOFP, its just bland denial. we care about Xavier more for two reasons. His story in xmen first class and much of DOFP when we first meet him as a broken man. You are shocked when xavier tells wolverine to fuck off in anger. when we see fat thor, we went what the hell. is this joke? and it was. this is why thor is ruined. we should not be seeing thor as joke . infact we should and cannot say how thor was like that because thor was never a clown. should be blame Thor 3? we can see why Xavier is like that because we saw him get paralysed in first class, we saw the plan for the mutant race, and for a whole all that was lost. xavier's personality is more fitting to the events of him dealing with depression. thor is not because nobody ever bought the drastic change in thor. Logan does not use joke like Disney style. dont go there. the logan director is not a mcu fan. you cannot defend childish mediocre writing like fat thor. Xavier depression was acclaimed in the film. I even remember the best supporting oscar talk for him. Fat thor was slammed by all. see the difference? Logan was a poor movie that was just a gore fest in reality to make up for how BADLY their mediocre PG-13 attempts at Wolverine in their previous disasters (Origins, The Wolverine which BUTCHERED the Japan/Shingen storyline and destroyed the Silver Samurai character by making him a rubbish mecha suit). Plus i love how you claim Logan was so serious when they used his claws to make a bogus ED comparison that is so stupid and laughable. And Pierce (with his Foghorn Leghorn accent), the Reavers and the Wolverine Clone all sucked as villains. Also the comic book with the X-Men within the film kills any seriousness you pretend this movie has. BTW when are you FOX-Men Fanboys going to get tired of their rehashing the X2 formula of some bad government dude with his private army is kidnapping and experimenting on mutant kids and Wolverine has to go save them/fight said bad dude while Xavier is mostly useless/impaired and doesn't really help matters storyline (Origins, Ivan Ooze, and this turkey) And Xavier's depression was a bad joke and poor executed in the awful DOFP, just so he could drop a f bomb at Wolverine. He became a bong/druggie hippie (because it was the 70's) and gave up on protecting mutants just because Mystique left with Magneto (even though XAVIER TOLD HER TO GO WITH HIM AT THE END OF FC). There was NO Oscar talk for that overrated Trash
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Post by dazz on Mar 19, 2020 3:46:54 GMT
the scene does not have more weight to it than DOFP, its just bland denial. we care about Xavier more for two reasons. His story in xmen first class and much of DOFP when we first meet him as a broken man. You are shocked when xavier tells wolverine to fuck off in anger. when we see fat thor, we went what the hell. is this joke? and it was. this is why thor is ruined. we should not be seeing thor as joke . infact we should and cannot say how thor was like that because thor was never a clown. should be blame Thor 3? we can see why Xavier is like that because we saw him get paralysed in first class, we saw the plan for the mutant race, and for a whole all that was lost. xavier's personality is more fitting to the events of him dealing with depression. thor is not because nobody ever bought the drastic change in thor. Logan does not use joke like Disney style. dont go there. the logan director is not a mcu fan. you cannot defend childish mediocre writing like fat thor. Xavier depression was acclaimed in the film. I even remember the best supporting oscar talk for him. Fat thor was slammed by all. see the difference? There was NO Oscar talk for that overrated Trash Hey says you, but you don't hear the voices Thenolan does inside his head now do you? they were all over that shit, I mean forget the fact that McAvoy was not nominated for ANY acting award at all for his performance in DOFP, the voices in Thenolan's head said otherwise, and I mean who is to be trusted more every major awarding body or Thenolans schizophrenia when it comes down to determining if someone was in the running for an Oscar nom?
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 19, 2020 11:02:00 GMT
There was NO Oscar talk for that overrated Trash Hey says you, but you don't hear the voices Thenolan does inside his head now do you? they were all over that shit, I mean forget the fact that McAvoy was not nominated for ANY acting award at all for his performance in DOFP, the voices in Thenolan's head said otherwise, and I mean who is to be trusted more every major awarding body or Thenolans schizophrenia when it comes down to determining if someone was in the running for an Oscar nom?
The funny bit is that everyone was talking Oscar for RDJ in Endgame and every time he said no because the movie wasn't his. That it was an ensemble movie and he wasn't the main star. I don't think they care about the recognition of an Oscar because the movie itself was recognized by everyone everywhere already.
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Post by ThatGuy on Mar 19, 2020 11:04:00 GMT
I'm really thinking at this point that thenolan and his "friends" are only here to have us defend these movies because he loves them and likes to read the "praise" for them.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Mar 19, 2020 23:15:43 GMT
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. Thatguy is trying to argue a dumbed down story of depression slammed by fans and even critics is more heartfelt and better to another one that is not dumbed down. what he is doing is a fool's quest. Let's ask him who stands a chance of an oscar nomination. James Mcvoy or Chris Helmsworth for tackling the theme of depression. LMAO. Thor is ruined. Not ruined. TOTALLY DESTROYED. It screams reboot. I mean: full reboot.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Mar 19, 2020 23:20:17 GMT
THOR 1 was funny, not great, but the lead character did not feel like the real Thor from the comic books at all anyway. THOR 2 was mediocre, but still watchable. Again, that was not the real character from CBs. AVENGERS 1 and 2: Thor was just a magnified cameo LOL. THOR 3: RAGNAROCK was a parody, a travesty, and Thor (in name only) was depicted as your average, stupid, brainless American football player. Terrible story, terrible acting, terrible direction, it was a comical cartoon. ENDGAME was the definitive nail in the coffin: I mean... FAT THOR.
Everyone claiming the opposite is an MCU nerd totally detached from reality, and in deep denial.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Mar 19, 2020 23:24:44 GMT
Oh, and the depiction of Xavier's depression in DOFP was totally brilliant, in-character and had a massive emotional impact on audience, because that was set right after the Vietnam War and the DEATH of the American Dream; also, after the end of the "X-Men Dream" of the sixties. You can almost feel on your skin Xavier's disenchantment with world, reality and the mutant condition. That was Oscar material.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Mar 19, 2020 23:25:58 GMT
THOR 1 was funny, not great, but the lead character did not feel like the real Thor from the comic books at all anyway. THOR 2 was mediocre, but still watchable. Again, that was not the real character from CBs. AVENGERS 1 and 2: Thor was just a magnified cameo LOL. THOR 3: RAGNAROCK was a parody, a travesty, and Thor (in name only) was depicted as your average, stupid, brainless American football player. Terrible story, terrible acting, terrible direction, it was a comical cartoon. ENDGAME was the definitive nail in the coffin: I mean... FAT THOR. Everyone claiming the opposite is an MCU nerd totally detached from reality, and in deep denial. Will you please stop using the word "nerd" as an insult? You’re pretty much the biggest nerd on this board.
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Mar 19, 2020 23:28:06 GMT
Nicko, you're wacko. Sometimes, a weirdo.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Mar 19, 2020 23:32:05 GMT
You don’t consider yourself a nerd? Sorry but you’re a massive nerd. Nothing to be ashamed about.
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Post by dazz on Mar 20, 2020 4:32:16 GMT
Oh, and the depiction of Xavier's depression in DOFP was totally brilliant, in-character and had a massive emotional impact on audience, because that was set right after the Vietnam War and the DEATH of the American Dream; also, after the end of the "X-Men Dream" of the sixties. You can almost feel on your skin Xavier's disenchantment with world, reality and the mutant condition. That was Oscar material. Then why did no one anywhere have him nominated for any serious award? like seriously nothing, McAvoy was great in DOFP because he's McAvoy and he is always great, but the writing was horse shit, they made him depressed because they needed to kill time and needed an excuse as to why they had to do a heist and Quicksilver could have his slow mo moment, otherwise Xavier's power makes it far too easy to pull off, Thor's depression actually is set up in the prior movie and events of the last 4 films he was in, how he gets to where he is gets shown to us, not told to us, that's a pivotal thing in good story telling, show don't tell, they told us why Xavier was depressed, they showed us why Thor had a breakdown, now if you prefer the resulting performance or style of one over the other that's fine, but no DOFP was not brilliant it was/is an over hyped mess.
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