|
|
Post by Cody™ on Mar 18, 2020 14:09:27 GMT
I’ll admit at first this seems like a bit of a strange and troubling story. But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible.
|
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 18, 2020 14:17:48 GMT
"But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible."
Not really. Imagine if a Muslim attempted to kill his son and his response was "Allah told me to". I doubt you would be calling that "misunderstood". It also does seem God has a bit of an ego if he asking someone to kill their son to prove their devotion (this is also a similar problem with the story of Job). Furthermore if God is "all knowing" why would he need someone to prove their devotion by killing their son? Wouldn't he already know that?
|
|
|
|
Post by Isapop on Mar 18, 2020 14:18:20 GMT
I’ll admit at first this seems like a bit of a strange and troubling story. But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible. Where do you think the misunderstand lies, so that if we understood it correctly, we wouldn't find it so troubling?
|
|
|
|
Post by onethreetwo on Mar 18, 2020 14:21:35 GMT
I agree it's an unsettling story. I also think perspective is important. This isn't something that happened a few hundred years ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Mar 18, 2020 14:42:30 GMT
I’ll admit at first this seems like a bit of a strange and troubling story. But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible. Where do you think the misunderstand lies, so that if we understood it correctly, we wouldn't find it so troubling? The misunderstanding lies with A) the entire context of Genesis 22 B) the miraculous context of the overall story C) the covenant God made with Abraham and D) the big picture of redemption.
|
|
|
|
Post by Isapop on Mar 18, 2020 14:51:42 GMT
Where do you think the misunderstand lies, so that if we understood it correctly, we wouldn't find it so troubling? The misunderstanding lies with A) the entire context of Genesis 22 B) the miraculous context of the overall story C) the covenant God made with Abraham and D) the big picture of redemption. In other words, "All of it". That's not any help. Is there a particular point that you find most impressive in helping to dispel the obvious trouble one feels when God praises someone for being willing to slaughter his son at God's instruction?
|
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 18, 2020 15:00:53 GMT
I have exactly the same issues as Abraham did.
|
|
|
|
Post by progressiveelement on Mar 18, 2020 15:04:20 GMT
I find it very troubling that F. Murrary Abraham sacrificed Isaac Hayes. It was not enought to murder Mozart?
|
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Mar 18, 2020 15:04:26 GMT
"But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible." Not really. Imagine if a Muslim attempted to kill his son and his response was "Allah told me to". I doubt you would be calling that "misunderstood". No, I wouldn’t. Probably because I’m certain Allah does not exist. Wouldn’t you if you were God? One of the purposes of the test was to build Abraham’s faith.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Mar 18, 2020 15:09:20 GMT
The misunderstanding lies with A) the entire context of Genesis 22 B) the miraculous context of the overall story C) the covenant God made with Abraham and D) the big picture of redemption. In other words, "All of it". That's not any help. Is there a particular point that you find most impressive in helping to dispel the obvious trouble one feels when God praises someone for being willing to slaughter his son at God's instruction?
I firmly believe that in order to fully get it you have to understand “all of it”.
|
|
|
|
Post by Isapop on Mar 18, 2020 15:31:30 GMT
One of the purposes of the test was to build Abraham’s faith. What makes you say that? You don't put something to the supreme test if you know it's still in need of further building.
|
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Mar 18, 2020 16:40:26 GMT
"But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible." Not really. Imagine if a Muslim attempted to kill his son and his response was "Allah told me to". I doubt you would be calling that "misunderstood". No, I wouldn’t. Probably because I’m certain Allah does not exist. Wouldn’t you if you were God? One of the purposes of the test was to build Abraham’s faith. "No, I wouldn’t. Probably because I’m certain Allah does not exist." Yes, as I'm certain the God of the Bible doesn't exist. "Wouldn’t you if you were God? " Would I want the Creator of the universe with the ability to destroy whoever he wants to have an ego? The answer should be obviously no, we've seen what happens when powerful men have egos (they become tyrannical dictators) "One of the purposes of the test was to build Abraham’s faith." How would that "build his faith"? Again if God is all knowing he would already have known if Abraham was willing to kill his son anyways. This goes back to whole problem of both free will existing and God being all knowing and all powerful, they can't coexist, they contradict one another.
|
|
|
|
Post by Farside on Mar 18, 2020 16:47:15 GMT
I’ll admit at first this seems like a bit of a strange and troubling story. But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible.
Cult leaders will award and praise their followers who follow their unquestioning obedience. The fact that Yahweh intervened and stopped the sacrifice is taken as Stockholm Syndrome in that he "Saved" Isaac.
|
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Mar 18, 2020 18:21:23 GMT
No, I wouldn’t. Probably because I’m certain Allah does not exist. Wouldn’t you if you were God? One of the purposes of the test was to build Abraham’s faith. "No, I wouldn’t. Probably because I’m certain Allah does not exist." Yes, as I'm certain the God of the Bible doesn't exist. That’s interesting, I thought atheism wasn’t a belief system? Anyway, the reason there’s a misunderstanding and a difference between the Muslim and the Abraham story is that unlike Abraham the Muslim cannot fall back on the time his child was born miraculously through the power of God. Or the times when God appeared to him and told him that he would judge certain cities and later witness their miraculous destruction. God had also already given Abraham a guarantee that through Isaac his descendants would come. That means Abraham would have have expected a temporary death for Isaac and a future resurrection. Nice dodge. But wasn’t my question. If you were the greatest conceivable being in existence, all-powerful, all-knowing and the creator of the universe you telling me you wouldn’t have an ego? God knew, but did Abraham? I don’t see how. Just because God can foresee which choice you will make, it does not mean you couldn’t still freely choose the other option.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Mar 18, 2020 18:33:16 GMT
"But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible." Not really. Imagine if a Muslim attempted to kill his son and his response was "Allah told me to". I doubt you would be calling that "misunderstood". No, I wouldn’t. Probably because I’m certain Allah does not exist. Wouldn’t you if you were God? One of the purposes of the test was to build Abraham’s faith. Allah and Yahweh are the same God. The same story of Abraham sacrificing his son is in the Koran, only in their version it’s Abraham’s first son Ishmael who gets the bejesus scared out of him.
|
|
buckyv2
Sophomore
@buckyv2
Posts: 443
|
Post by buckyv2 on Mar 18, 2020 19:57:09 GMT
I’ll admit at first this seems like a bit of a strange and troubling story. But I also feel that it’s one of the most misunderstood in the entire bible. It's unsettling for sure. A man hears voices that tell him to kill his kid. If this were a newspaper story today, the man would be arrested and would be sent to see a shrink.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2020 22:25:28 GMT
I think it's a rather disgusting story, but not a surprising one given the god of the bible's penchant for murdering children.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2020 1:04:21 GMT
The God I've come to know who speaks to my heart through the holy spirit would never have asked that, but I can see a man wanting to prove his love to God, so much, he got some insane notion God wanted to do such a thing, and God smacked some sense into him. And then Abraham was the witness left to tell the story.
But I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure.
|
|
|
|
Post by gameboy on Mar 19, 2020 1:23:14 GMT
It must be remembered it was written at a time and place where child sacrifice was common. It is probably a fact that the Hebrews themselves practiced child sacrifice. The story is important because it's a declaration that child sacrifice is forbidden. It was actually a great religious reform. Even atheists can admit this was a landmark in human rights.
I don't understand why both theists and atheists miss the point. The story is clearly about a Hebrew declaration that child sacrifice is forbidden. It took most of the ancient world a few thousand more years before this progressive reform was instituted.
|
|
|
|
Post by SciFive on Mar 19, 2020 1:53:20 GMT
It must be remembered it was written at a time and place where child sacrifice was common. It is probably a fact that the Hebrews themselves practiced child sacrifice. The story is important because it's a declaration that child sacrifice is forbidden. It was actually a great religious reform. Even atheists can admit this was a landmark in human rights. I don't understand why both theists and atheists miss the point. The story is clearly about a Hebrew declaration that child sacrifice is forbidden. It took most of the ancient world a few thousand more years before this progressive reform was instituted. Isaac wasn’t a child. The whole point of the story was that HUMAN SACRIFICE is totally wrong and should never happen. HUMAN SACRIFICE was the bread and butter of the pagan world. God was saying that the pagans were dead wrong to do this and that the Hebrews were on a totally different path. Animals could be sacrificed instead until ancient people were weaned off needing to sacrifice animals, too. |
|
