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Post by formersamhmd on May 13, 2017 12:50:38 GMT
No, the MCU movies just aren't ashamed of themselves the way the FoX-Men movies are. And I thought that whole bit with Magneto and his family was utter stupidity. You need to get new material. Your shit is tired, bro. So when someone answers "4" to "What is 2+2" do you say "You need new material, that's an old answer"? |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 13, 2017 12:52:41 GMT
You need to get new material. Your shit is tired, bro. So when someone answers "4" to "What is 2+2" do you say "You need new material, that's an old answer"? I say: you're a dipshit. 2 + 2 doesn't equal being a stupid douchebag 25/8 and parroting the same retarded and subjective opinions about comic book movies all day long. Good lord, your existence on this earth is a waste of everyone's time... |
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Post by formersamhmd on May 13, 2017 14:43:11 GMT
So when someone answers "4" to "What is 2+2" do you say "You need new material, that's an old answer"? I say: you're a dipshit. 2 + 2 doesn't equal being a stupid douchebag 25/8 and parroting the same retarded and subjective opinions about comic book movies all day long. Good lord, your existence on this earth is a waste of everyone's time... Calm down Francis, you're going to give yourself skin failure. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2017 14:44:58 GMT
I hate these MCU trolls. They act so pompous and arrogant when their films are so shallow, and campy. They're not art because all they survive on is silly quips. They're nothing but pull-string toy commercials. Nothing as deep or powerful as the drama I've seen in Logan or Days of Future Past. Nothing as ballsy as Deadpool. Marvel plays it safe EVERY TIME by using the textbook use of cheap one-liners. But in reality, it's all kind of shallow and pointless. So bravo, MCU fans for being religiously addicted to toy commercials that will be forgotten in the next decade because they have no deeper meaning. For more reasons why X-Men win, check this out: www.cbr.com/reasons-why-x-men-movies-are-better-than-the-mcu/Marvel plays it safe every time? The X-men has been making the same exact movie since the beginning. They even put in a loophole so they can continue making the same movie again. Don't confuse your preference with them actually being better. Deadpool was good in spite of the other X-men movies. Don't take credit for something that Fox didn't even want to make and distance themselves from. Logan was made because someone went outside of what they were safely doing in the other X-men movies. Do you really think they would have let Mangold make The Wolverine with the same sensibilities as Logan? Nope. Hell, even Logan was just a rated R The Wolverine. Was the same movie. Logan for years living in the middle of nowhere, after a tragedy with the X-men and has to go on the run with a girl. Then has to fight a creation made from him. Also his healing factor isn't working. The X-men movies doesn't play it safe? Screw that noise. And it's funny that you are crying about one-liners when the X-men movies are full of one-liners. Their main star (Logan) is nothing but one-liners. If you really look at it Stark is the same character in the MCU as Logan. Same goes for Rogers and Cyclops, Fury and Xavier, Thor and Storm, etc. Feige basically took the X-men and made them popular with other characters. And deeper meaning? Let's go back to playing it safe and Stryker. He was a reverend in the comics and they went and merged him with Thornton at Weapon X. What happened to that deeper meaning there? Why did they play it safe by making it a government agent revenge tale? Why did they remake X2 and called it DoFP? I'm guessing that's because Singer made it and he has to have the same beats in his movies. I'm betting DoFP would have been an insanely better movie if Vaughn made it. Seeing as how First Class is the best core X-men movie. Why did they remake X1, X3, First Class and X-men Origins and called it X-men Apocalypse? Playing it safe indeed. You see people as trolls because they don't agree with you. No one is saying you should like other movies. Nobody cares. You are the one that is saying that others shouldn't like those movies and should like the ones that you prefer. You are sitting here glossing over all the stuff that the X-men movies are doing that are in the MCU, because you want to like them more. All you are doing is acting like a "The X-men movies happened first" hipster. Do you want to know why the MCU is more popular than the X-men movies? They are doing what people have been wanting the X-men movies to do since the 1st X-men movie. Feige listened to the fans when he was working on the X-men movies. He knows what we want. Singer and Fox (because F4) is still in the mindset that fans don't know what they want until they get it, but is wondering why his movies aren't as popular. Give the fans what they have been asking for since the beginning and stop thinking like you are high and mighty when making the movies.The movies can be "deep" and not be up its own ass. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2017 15:07:18 GMT
Also to some of you saying that the X-Men films don't require you to think, maybe it's just because their goal is to be more visceral and fun with the silly comic book elements. I mean, they take the source material so seriously that they make it easy for everyone to care about a criminal like Magneto and his family... when we barely know them. That's awesome filmmaking. The MCU films are as cut and dry and as deep as TV movies. ZZzzzz. I'd rather these kind of movies play with and master my emotional responses while I'm watching them than give me boring, dry, unrelatable nonsense (because we've seen it all a billion times before). But do we really care about his family? We know they are going to die because that is their purpose. We don't have it that there is a chance they are going to be saved, but dies anyway. Look at Logan and Xavier. We didn't expect that to happen. That was heartbreaking. Magneto's family dying was paint by numbers because they didn't give them a name in movie. They were a thing given to him to turn him bad... again. Magneto going bad every movie is just a thing we expect to happen. He turned good at the end of Apocalypse, but, really, if he's in X-men Phoenix, do you think he will stay good all the way through? Something will happen for him to go bad... again. I felt more for Yondu than I did for anything in an X-men movie (besides the last half of Logan). I felt more for Groot in the 1st GotG than anything in an X-men movie. I felt more for Rocket than anything in an X-men movie. I felt more for Antony than anything in an X-men movie. Notice those last 3 were full CG characters and an ant. The X-men movies try to hard to give the feels and it backfires. GotG2 had more feels than most of the X-men movies put together. You can't relate because you are probably dead inside. You sit there and see only the spectacle of the MCU and none of the spectacle of the X-men movies and try and say they are better. Get off your high horse and realize they are all on the same level. Like I said in another post: you only see preference. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2017 15:50:48 GMT
a fair point but the truth is we have more mutants without physical mutations. I will say the ratio is about 75 to 25. if x-men does a morlock story arc maybe we can get more mutants with physical mutations. The films have used Beast, Nightcrawler and mystique though. going to the aspect of uniforms and comparing it to star wars you have to realise that the jedis have only one uniform and dress the same way. James Mangold gave the perfect response to the yellow costume problem. ''I always feel a certain contingent of fans who are yearning for it. But the biggest block I’ve had – I’m willing to take the heat for it – is that, I can never get past, being a writer for these movies as well, that Logan is the least narcissistic of all the superheroes, any kind I can think of – Marvel, DC or anywhere else. What I mean by that is, who puts a special branded outfit on when they do good deeds? And why? The only reason you do it is so you can have some sort of trademarked claim and get credit for what you did. Nothing seems less Wolverine-like than the desire to put on a trademarked outfit , particularly canary yellow, and kind of prance about doing good deeds and have people go, “Oh my God! It’s The Wolverine!” At least the Wolverine, as I see him, that’s a real struggle for me and always has been. I somehow feel that if somehow we ever put Hugh [Jackman] into one of those outfits, people would not be happy. Essentially, it’s something that lives on the page and I’m not sure could live anywhere else''. This is what I said earlier. not everything you see in a page translates to the screen. My point was he did not wear the costume in the film. it is irrelevant if we saw it in the comics of the film. Can you say the x-men movies were flops? Spiderman was always an anomaly, his movies did better because it appealed more to kids and was marketed 3x as much as the average x-men movie. If you want to see how the sucess is measured look at the box office of DOFP and AMSM 2. Both films made over 700 million. one was a sucess, the other was a flop and had to make a deal with MCU. X-Men is not in the same category, making a deal with the MCU would be senseless and totally out of character for Fox because Fox enjoys all the sucess for every X-men movie and uses it to make more sequels and spin offs. Because a film makes more money than the other does not mean the other film was not a sucess. And they treat Beast, Mystique and Nightcrawler as anomalies and not the norm when it comes to mutants. Students at a school jump back when they see Nightcrawler in X2 instead of accepting him because they should be seeing that a lot. Especially that they are living at a school full of mutant runaways. I'm not comparing the uniforms to Star Wars. I was comparing the look of the Cantina to that of how the world of X-men should be. We should be accepting the alien look of mutants in the X-men world instead of thinking they are silly and out of place. The world of X-men is not grounded. It is sci/fantasy. It is otherworldly yet is still in our world. Like urban fantasy novels that has elves and fairies and trolls and vampires and stuff in modern times. That's what X-men should be. That explanation Mangold gave has nothing to do with why they should. Of course it might not fit if the movie calls for him being a regular guy in the streets. He's a limo driver in Logan. He's not teaching at the school. They should have school uniforms in the movies where they are at school. The uniforms should designate what class they are in. Who their advisor is. It also go with their powers. A character with flight powers needs something that would have no back for their wings. A running character like Quicksilver wouldn't have all kinds of crap like a leather jacket and armor. A character that turns into ice would freeze their clothing. But a uniform specifically made for them would be a better option to learn to use their powers. I'm not saying they should be exactly like the ones in the comics. Not saying they should be wearing underwear on the outside. The X-men movies were a franchise that Fox had that they can keep making a bit of money from. They weren't big hits. People liked them, but they were quickly forgotten once Spider-man came out. Spider-man 2 hit and made X3 a disaster. And they appealed to kids? X-men was a big thing outside of the movies and had a toy line for the movies. DoFP had a gimmick (the returning OT cast). And the 1st 2 Raimi movies made just as much and were praised. When the OT cast didn't return for Apocalypse... When a full movie was made with 2 of the OT cast in Logan... Fox won't make a deal because they are stubborn. Look at Fantastic Four. They lost Daredevil and won't lose that kind of face again. They will keep churning out X-men to keep the rights. They will latch onto Deadpool as the new face of the X-men movies as long as they can. That's why Wolverine was the face of X-men as long as he was and why they were trying with Jennifer Lawrence. Gotta use that star power right? |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 13, 2017 16:12:46 GMT
I say: you're a dipshit. 2 + 2 doesn't equal being a stupid douchebag 25/8 and parroting the same retarded and subjective opinions about comic book movies all day long. Good lord, your existence on this earth is a waste of everyone's time... Calm down Francis, you're going to give yourself skin failure.  |
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Post by summers8 on May 13, 2017 16:23:29 GMT
Also to some of you saying that the X-Men films don't require you to think, maybe it's just because their goal is to be more visceral and fun with the silly comic book elements. I mean, they take the source material so seriously that they make it easy for everyone to care about a criminal like Magneto and his family... when we barely know them. That's awesome filmmaking. The MCU films are as cut and dry and as deep as TV movies. ZZzzzz. I'd rather these kind of movies play with and master my emotional responses while I'm watching them than give me boring, dry, unrelatable nonsense (because we've seen it all a billion times before). But do we really care about his family? We know they are going to die because that is their purpose. We don't have it that there is a chance they are going to be saved, but dies anyway. Look at Logan and Xavier. We didn't expect that to happen. That was heartbreaking. Magneto's family dying was paint by numbers because they didn't give them a name in movie. They were a thing given to him to turn him bad... again. Magneto going bad every movie is just a thing we expect to happen. He turned good at the end of Apocalypse, but, really, if he's in X-men Phoenix, do you think he will stay good all the way through? Something will happen for him to go bad... again. I felt more for Yondu than I did for anything in an X-men movie (besides the last half of Logan). I felt more for Groot in the 1st GotG than anything in an X-men movie. I felt more for Rocket than anything in an X-men movie. I felt more for Antony than anything in an X-men movie. Notice those last 3 were full CG characters and an ant. The X-men movies try to hard to give the feels and it backfires. GotG2 had more feels than most of the X-men movies put together. You can't relate because you are probably dead inside. You sit there and see only the spectacle of the MCU and none of the spectacle of the X-men movies and try and say they are better. Get off your high horse and realize they are all on the same level. Like I said in another post: you only see preference. Marvel plays it more safe. all the marvel movies are more of the same. there is no creative or a personal vision from the director or writers. GOTG 2 is the same as the first movie but much worse. iron man and dr strange and ant man are the same movie. marvel has a one way formula that goes no where. avengers 1 and 2 are the same movie. I don't feel anything for any on MCU because the environment of their movies does not provide anything for me to feel. X-Men provides the tone and setting for you to feel. I feel more for the x-men characters because they are placed in the real world. I felt more of the mutants in X2 and DOFP are their near death experiences than I feel for any mcu character because in the x-men world you can buy the idea that this people are in danger and it is them against the world. I felt more for Mystique in DOFP than I felt for any mcu character. mcu characters just brush things aside with silly humour. GOTG may be a little bit more emotional than the first movie but overall the movie was pretty weak. I felt more for a villain like Senator Kelly dying in X1 than I feel for many mcu characters. I felt more for Scott loosing Jean in X2 than I feel for any mcu character. MCU needs to step of their game. how long can they continue to make movies without any real tone or real vision. This is the world mcu fans wanted x-men to be placed? thank God at least all of you seem to have dropped the bring x-men into the mcu crap. MCU movies is kids stuff compared to x-men. let's not pretend they are anything but that. |
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Post by formersamhmd on May 13, 2017 16:49:50 GMT
But do we really care about his family? We know they are going to die because that is their purpose. We don't have it that there is a chance they are going to be saved, but dies anyway. Look at Logan and Xavier. We didn't expect that to happen. That was heartbreaking. Magneto's family dying was paint by numbers because they didn't give them a name in movie. They were a thing given to him to turn him bad... again. Magneto going bad every movie is just a thing we expect to happen. He turned good at the end of Apocalypse, but, really, if he's in X-men Phoenix, do you think he will stay good all the way through? Something will happen for him to go bad... again. I felt more for Yondu than I did for anything in an X-men movie (besides the last half of Logan). I felt more for Groot in the 1st GotG than anything in an X-men movie. I felt more for Rocket than anything in an X-men movie. I felt more for Antony than anything in an X-men movie. Notice those last 3 were full CG characters and an ant. The X-men movies try to hard to give the feels and it backfires. GotG2 had more feels than most of the X-men movies put together. You can't relate because you are probably dead inside. You sit there and see only the spectacle of the MCU and none of the spectacle of the X-men movies and try and say they are better. Get off your high horse and realize they are all on the same level. Like I said in another post: you only see preference. Marvel plays it more safe. all the marvel movies are more of the same. there is no creative or a personal vision from the director or writers. GOTG 2 is the same as the first movie but much worse. iron man and dr strange and ant man are the same movie. marvel has a one way formula that goes no where. avengers 1 and 2 are the same movie. I don't feel anything for any on MCU because the environment of their movies does not provide anything for me to feel. X-Men provides the tone and setting for you to feel. I feel more for the x-men characters because they are placed in the real world. I felt more of the mutants in X2 and DOFP are their near death experiences than I feel for any mcu character because in the x-men world you can buy the idea that this people are in danger and it is them against the world. I felt more for Mystique in DOFP than I felt for any mcu character. mcu characters just brush things aside with silly humour. GOTG may be a little bit more emotional than the first movie but overall the movie was pretty weak. I felt more for a villain like Senator Kelly dying in X1 than I feel for many mcu characters. I felt more for Scott loosing Jean in X2 than I feel for any mcu character. MCU needs to step of their game. how long can they continue to make movies without any real tone or real vision. This is the world mcu fans wanted x-men to be placed? thank God at least all of you seem to have dropped the bring x-men into the mcu crap. MCU movies is kids stuff compared to x-men. let's not pretend they are anything but that. Ugh, this "It's more in the real world!" BS. That's for people ashamed of comics. And no, the X-Movies are far more repetitive and formula than any MCU film. |
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 13, 2017 19:15:05 GMT
And deeper meaning? Let's go back to playing it safe and Stryker. He was a reverend in the comics and they went and merged him with Thornton at Weapon X. Actually, movie Stryker is partly based on Ultimate John Wraith. You know, the guy that was in Wolverine & The X-Men. Tom Rothman most likely. Considering the fact that he thought the theme of Dark Phoenix were too dark for audiences. No, there was a narrative point in modeling it after X2. Help develop the possible theme of Dark Phoenix film. They didn't make Origins, they were building up X-23's backstory with the Weapon X scene. If you go back and look at it, you even see Logan kill a bunch of scientist(Zander Rice's father). They even admitted it. You think Fiege was listening to fans when it came to the changes made to Ultron, the Mandarin, the act in Civil War, and the ancient one? Fans complained about all of those changes. Even to this day. |
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Post by summers8 on May 13, 2017 19:26:23 GMT
a fair point but the truth is we have more mutants without physical mutations. I will say the ratio is about 75 to 25. if x-men does a morlock story arc maybe we can get more mutants with physical mutations. The films have used Beast, Nightcrawler and mystique though. going to the aspect of uniforms and comparing it to star wars you have to realise that the jedis have only one uniform and dress the same way. James Mangold gave the perfect response to the yellow costume problem. ''I always feel a certain contingent of fans who are yearning for it. But the biggest block I’ve had – I’m willing to take the heat for it – is that, I can never get past, being a writer for these movies as well, that Logan is the least narcissistic of all the superheroes, any kind I can think of – Marvel, DC or anywhere else. What I mean by that is, who puts a special branded outfit on when they do good deeds? And why? The only reason you do it is so you can have some sort of trademarked claim and get credit for what you did. Nothing seems less Wolverine-like than the desire to put on a trademarked outfit , particularly canary yellow, and kind of prance about doing good deeds and have people go, “Oh my God! It’s The Wolverine!” At least the Wolverine, as I see him, that’s a real struggle for me and always has been. I somehow feel that if somehow we ever put Hugh [Jackman] into one of those outfits, people would not be happy. Essentially, it’s something that lives on the page and I’m not sure could live anywhere else''. This is what I said earlier. not everything you see in a page translates to the screen. My point was he did not wear the costume in the film. it is irrelevant if we saw it in the comics of the film. Can you say the x-men movies were flops? Spiderman was always an anomaly, his movies did better because it appealed more to kids and was marketed 3x as much as the average x-men movie. If you want to see how the sucess is measured look at the box office of DOFP and AMSM 2. Both films made over 700 million. one was a sucess, the other was a flop and had to make a deal with MCU. X-Men is not in the same category, making a deal with the MCU would be senseless and totally out of character for Fox because Fox enjoys all the sucess for every X-men movie and uses it to make more sequels and spin offs. Because a film makes more money than the other does not mean the other film was not a sucess. And they treat Beast, Mystique and Nightcrawler as anomalies and not the norm when it comes to mutants. Students at a school jump back when they see Nightcrawler in X2 instead of accepting him because they should be seeing that a lot. Especially that they are living at a school full of mutant runaways. I'm not comparing the uniforms to Star Wars. I was comparing the look of the Cantina to that of how the world of X-men should be. We should be accepting the alien look of mutants in the X-men world instead of thinking they are silly and out of place. The world of X-men is not grounded. It is sci/fantasy. It is otherworldly yet is still in our world. Like urban fantasy novels that has elves and fairies and trolls and vampires and stuff in modern times. That's what X-men should be. That explanation Mangold gave has nothing to do with why they should. Of course it might not fit if the movie calls for him being a regular guy in the streets. He's a limo driver in Logan. He's not teaching at the school. They should have school uniforms in the movies where they are at school. The uniforms should designate what class they are in. Who their advisor is. It also go with their powers. A character with flight powers needs something that would have no back for their wings. A running character like Quicksilver wouldn't have all kinds of crap like a leather jacket and armor. A character that turns into ice would freeze their clothing. But a uniform specifically made for them would be a better option to learn to use their powers. I'm not saying they should be exactly like the ones in the comics. Not saying they should be wearing underwear on the outside. The X-men movies were a franchise that Fox had that they can keep making a bit of money from. They weren't big hits. People liked them, but they were quickly forgotten once Spider-man came out. Spider-man 2 hit and made X3 a disaster. And they appealed to kids? X-men was a big thing outside of the movies and had a toy line for the movies. DoFP had a gimmick (the returning OT cast). And the 1st 2 Raimi movies made just as much and were praised. When the OT cast didn't return for Apocalypse... When a full movie was made with 2 of the OT cast in Logan... Fox won't make a deal because they are stubborn. Look at Fantastic Four. They lost Daredevil and won't lose that kind of face again. They will keep churning out X-men to keep the rights. They will latch onto Deadpool as the new face of the X-men movies as long as they can. That's why Wolverine was the face of X-men as long as he was and why they were trying with Jennifer Lawrence. Gotta use that star power right? -------------------- new post ...down under |
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Post by summers8 on May 13, 2017 19:30:32 GMT
reply to thatguy
Fox wont make a deal because they don't need too. MCU movies are borderline retarded compared to X-Men hard hitting movies, After the success of Logan, Deadpool, DOFP, X2 Making a deal will be OOC for fox.
Logan has recently shown X-Men in the MCU is a no no. Fox wants more Logan and less Apocalypse, so a deal is unnecessary. why should x-men go from Logan, X2 and DOFP to GOTG and Avengers, (kids stuff) with hardly any substance or story???
Like I said the two sam rami appealed more to kids and was marketed more. both movies were successful in their own ways. X-Men is still on and sony may have had better success if they continued with the raimi movies, who knows but neither sony and fox are looking back with sadness about their older movies. Those are the facts, you need to accept. if you call a ''bit'', it is still enough money to make sequels and not do something as silly as joining mcu. Sony and MCU have a deal and now the Spiderman franchise does not have vision. we have a Spiderman movie that could pass for as something on a Saturday morning show and now, sony wants an R Rated venom and their own spideyverse? A deal will never work with fox.
Although I will admit Fox has wasted a lot of potential with x-men but they are still the better studio to make x-men movies and anybody that doubts this is an MCU lunatic that knows nothing about X-Men. speaking of deadpool and x-force. I don't see marvel making those movies. the thanos actor is cable, so my only guess is marvel has now messed up another villain and with the more forced attention of gotg in infinity war and BC saying infinity is so fun..Infinity war will be another comedy like the avengers movies.
All the mcu movies this year (gotg 2, thor , spiderman) have a generic factor to them. Logan always looked more authentic than those movies and we see why. I got the same feeling when I saw the first teaser for DOFP in 2013, I knew it was going to be a stand out I knew apocalypse was going to turn out bad for many reason so wont defend apocalypse.
you can cry all you want about costumes but costumes will always look ridiculous in the real world of people with ''special abilities''. Buffy, Neo and Spock had super powers and I did not see them wearing costumes. X-Men does not need costumes. I like the black they wear since it matches the serious tone and grounded world of their movies. I also dont make it a big deal.
I hope Deadpool is not the new face of x-men,. overall I am looking forward to the new mutants and x-force and hope they become the new faces of x-men. I can’t see mcu making new mutants and x-force either. Neither can I see them making dark phoenix and I have no interest in the film.
X-Men either it is with their good movies (logan, X2, FC, DOFP) and Legion that just puts MCU to shame, X-Men stands out better in their own universe with more creative freedom from the directors and writers and taking the less incorporated kid friendly approach to comic films like the mcu..
How long are all of you MCU fans going to pretend GOTG 2 was great when it was almost unwatchable, .You all will look back and see another Age of Ultron, only this time it will be worse than ultron and the rest of the messed up movies MCU has made.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 13, 2017 19:42:49 GMT
a fair point but the truth is we have more mutants without physical mutations. I will say the ratio is about 75 to 25. if x-men does a morlock story arc maybe we can get more mutants with physical mutations. The films have used Beast, Nightcrawler and mystique though. going to the aspect of uniforms and comparing it to star wars you have to realise that the jedis have only one uniform and dress the same way. James Mangold gave the perfect response to the yellow costume problem. ''I always feel a certain contingent of fans who are yearning for it. But the biggest block I’ve had – I’m willing to take the heat for it – is that, I can never get past, being a writer for these movies as well, that Logan is the least narcissistic of all the superheroes, any kind I can think of – Marvel, DC or anywhere else. What I mean by that is, who puts a special branded outfit on when they do good deeds? And why? The only reason you do it is so you can have some sort of trademarked claim and get credit for what you did. Nothing seems less Wolverine-like than the desire to put on a trademarked outfit , particularly canary yellow, and kind of prance about doing good deeds and have people go, “Oh my God! It’s The Wolverine!” At least the Wolverine, as I see him, that’s a real struggle for me and always has been. I somehow feel that if somehow we ever put Hugh [Jackman] into one of those outfits, people would not be happy. Essentially, it’s something that lives on the page and I’m not sure could live anywhere else''. This is what I said earlier. not everything you see in a page translates to the screen. My point was he did not wear the costume in the film. it is irrelevant if we saw it in the comics of the film. Can you say the x-men movies were flops? Spiderman was always an anomaly, his movies did better because it appealed more to kids and was marketed 3x as much as the average x-men movie. If you want to see how the sucess is measured look at the box office of DOFP and AMSM 2. Both films made over 700 million. one was a sucess, the other was a flop and had to make a deal with MCU. X-Men is not in the same category, making a deal with the MCU would be senseless and totally out of character for Fox because Fox enjoys all the sucess for every X-men movie and uses it to make more sequels and spin offs. Because a film makes more money than the other does not mean the other film was not a sucess. And they treat Beast, Mystique and Nightcrawler as anomalies and not the norm when it comes to mutants. Students at a school jump back when they see Nightcrawler in X2 instead of accepting him because they should be seeing that a lot. Especially that they are living at a school full of mutant runaways. I'm not comparing the uniforms to Star Wars. I was comparing the look of the Cantina to that of how the world of X-men should be. We should be accepting the alien look of mutants in the X-men world instead of thinking they are silly and out of place. The world of X-men is not grounded. It is sci/fantasy. It is otherworldly yet is still in our world. Like urban fantasy novels that has elves and fairies and trolls and vampires and stuff in modern times. That's what X-men should be. That explanation Mangold gave has nothing to do with why they should. Of course it might not fit if the movie calls for him being a regular guy in the streets. He's a limo driver in Logan. He's not teaching at the school. They should have school uniforms in the movies where they are at school. The uniforms should designate what class they are in. Who their advisor is. It also go with their powers. A character with flight powers needs something that would have no back for their wings. A running character like Quicksilver wouldn't have all kinds of crap like a leather jacket and armor. A character that turns into ice would freeze their clothing. But a uniform specifically made for them would be a better option to learn to use their powers. I'm not saying they should be exactly like the ones in the comics. Not saying they should be wearing underwear on the outside. The X-men movies were a franchise that Fox had that they can keep making a bit of money from. They weren't big hits. People liked them, but they were quickly forgotten once Spider-man came out. Spider-man 2 hit and made X3 a disaster. And they appealed to kids? X-men was a big thing outside of the movies and had a toy line for the movies. DoFP had a gimmick (the returning OT cast). And the 1st 2 Raimi movies made just as much and were praised. When the OT cast didn't return for Apocalypse... When a full movie was made with 2 of the OT cast in Logan... Fox won't make a deal because they are stubborn. Look at Fantastic Four. They lost Daredevil and won't lose that kind of face again. They will keep churning out X-men to keep the rights. They will latch onto Deadpool as the new face of the X-men movies as long as they can. That's why Wolverine was the face of X-men as long as he was and why they were trying with Jennifer Lawrence. Gotta use that star power right? X3 wasn't exactly a diseaster considering it sold as many tickets as Deadpool. |
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 13, 2017 20:01:45 GMT
And they treat Beast, Mystique and Nightcrawler as anomalies and not the norm when it comes to mutants. Students at a school jump back when they see Nightcrawler in X2 instead of accepting him because they should be seeing that a lot. Especially that they are living at a school full of mutant runaways. I'm not comparing the uniforms to Star Wars. I was comparing the look of the Cantina to that of how the world of X-men should be. We should be accepting the alien look of mutants in the X-men world instead of thinking they are silly and out of place. The world of X-men is not grounded. It is sci/fantasy. It is otherworldly yet is still in our world. Like urban fantasy novels that has elves and fairies and trolls and vampires and stuff in modern times. That's what X-men should be. That explanation Mangold gave has nothing to do with why they should. Of course it might not fit if the movie calls for him being a regular guy in the streets. He's a limo driver in Logan. He's not teaching at the school. They should have school uniforms in the movies where they are at school. The uniforms should designate what class they are in. Who their advisor is. It also go with their powers. A character with flight powers needs something that would have no back for their wings. A running character like Quicksilver wouldn't have all kinds of crap like a leather jacket and armor. A character that turns into ice would freeze their clothing. But a uniform specifically made for them would be a better option to learn to use their powers. I'm not saying they should be exactly like the ones in the comics. Not saying they should be wearing underwear on the outside. The X-men movies were a franchise that Fox had that they can keep making a bit of money from. They weren't big hits. People liked them, but they were quickly forgotten once Spider-man came out. Spider-man 2 hit and made X3 a disaster. And they appealed to kids? X-men was a big thing outside of the movies and had a toy line for the movies. DoFP had a gimmick (the returning OT cast). And the 1st 2 Raimi movies made just as much and were praised. When the OT cast didn't return for Apocalypse... When a full movie was made with 2 of the OT cast in Logan... Fox won't make a deal because they are stubborn. Look at Fantastic Four. They lost Daredevil and won't lose that kind of face again. They will keep churning out X-men to keep the rights. They will latch onto Deadpool as the new face of the X-men movies as long as they can. That's why Wolverine was the face of X-men as long as he was and why they were trying with Jennifer Lawrence. Gotta use that star power right? X3 wasn't a diseaster considering it sold as money tickets as Deadpool.  |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2017 20:27:47 GMT
And they treat Beast, Mystique and Nightcrawler as anomalies and not the norm when it comes to mutants. Students at a school jump back when they see Nightcrawler in X2 instead of accepting him because they should be seeing that a lot. Especially that they are living at a school full of mutant runaways. I'm not comparing the uniforms to Star Wars. I was comparing the look of the Cantina to that of how the world of X-men should be. We should be accepting the alien look of mutants in the X-men world instead of thinking they are silly and out of place. The world of X-men is not grounded. It is sci/fantasy. It is otherworldly yet is still in our world. Like urban fantasy novels that has elves and fairies and trolls and vampires and stuff in modern times. That's what X-men should be. That explanation Mangold gave has nothing to do with why they should. Of course it might not fit if the movie calls for him being a regular guy in the streets. He's a limo driver in Logan. He's not teaching at the school. They should have school uniforms in the movies where they are at school. The uniforms should designate what class they are in. Who their advisor is. It also go with their powers. A character with flight powers needs something that would have no back for their wings. A running character like Quicksilver wouldn't have all kinds of crap like a leather jacket and armor. A character that turns into ice would freeze their clothing. But a uniform specifically made for them would be a better option to learn to use their powers. I'm not saying they should be exactly like the ones in the comics. Not saying they should be wearing underwear on the outside. The X-men movies were a franchise that Fox had that they can keep making a bit of money from. They weren't big hits. People liked them, but they were quickly forgotten once Spider-man came out. Spider-man 2 hit and made X3 a disaster. And they appealed to kids? X-men was a big thing outside of the movies and had a toy line for the movies. DoFP had a gimmick (the returning OT cast). And the 1st 2 Raimi movies made just as much and were praised. When the OT cast didn't return for Apocalypse... When a full movie was made with 2 of the OT cast in Logan... Fox won't make a deal because they are stubborn. Look at Fantastic Four. They lost Daredevil and won't lose that kind of face again. They will keep churning out X-men to keep the rights. They will latch onto Deadpool as the new face of the X-men movies as long as they can. That's why Wolverine was the face of X-men as long as he was and why they were trying with Jennifer Lawrence. Gotta use that star power right? X3 wasn't exactly a diseaster considering it sold as many tickets as Deadpool. It was more public opinion and the climate around it is what I mean. That's why I was saying that Spider-man 2 made it a disaster. |
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Post by summers8 on May 13, 2017 20:35:12 GMT
I know this will sound insane but I am happy apocalypse turned out the way it did because it will give fox a clue on what works and doesn't work. let's all look at the 180 it did compared to the other X-Men greats: X2, DOFP, First Class.
1. Messy plot? check
2. more ''comic bookie'' to those who don't know not all comic book movies are the same? check
3. costumes in the end? check
4. destroy the world? check
5. OOC CGI? check
6. Using one star to sell the movie instead of making the movie about the ensemble? check
7. Weak story arc? Check
RESULT?
Dreadpocalypse.
Its good the movie failed for most x-men fans and clearly not for fox financially since they green-lighted an unnecessary sequel with the same prequel cast.
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Post by summers8 on May 13, 2017 20:41:16 GMT
X3 wasn't exactly a diseaster considering it sold as many tickets as Deadpool. It was more public opinion and the climate around it is what I mean. That's why I was saying that Spider-man 2 made it a disaster. So did Spiderman 2 make Batman Begins a disaster (2005)? Rushing X3 and hiring Bret Ratner, who is more of an action guy than a story teller made X3 a disaster. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2017 21:44:23 GMT
reply to thatguy Fox wont make a deal because they don't need too. MCU movies are borderline retarded compared to X-Men hard hitting movies, After the success of Logan, Deadpool, DOFP, X2 Making a deal will be OOC for fox. Logan has recently shown X-Men in the MCU is a no no. Fox wants more Logan and less Apocalypse, so a deal is unnecessary. why should x-men go from Logan, X2 and DOFP to GOTG and Avengers, (kids stuff) with hardly any substance or story??? Like I said the two sam rami appealed more to kids and was marketed more. both movies were successful in their own ways. X-Men is still on and sony may have had better success if they continued with the raimi movies, who knows but neither sony and fox are looking back with sadness about their older movies. Those are the facts, you need to accept. if you call a ''bit'', it is still enough money to make sequels and not do something as silly as joining mcu. Sony and MCU have a deal and now the Spiderman franchise does not have vision. we have a Spiderman movie that could pass for as something on a Saturday morning show and now, sony wants an R Rated venom and their own spideyverse? A deal will never work with fox. Although I will admit Fox has wasted a lot of potential with x-men but they are still the better studio to make x-men movies and anybody that doubts this is an MCU lunatic that knows nothing about X-Men. speaking of deadpool and x-force. I don't see marvel making those movies. the thanos actor is cable, so my only guess is marvel has now messed up another villain and with the more forced attention of gotg in infinity war and BC saying infinity is so fun..Infinity war will be another comedy like the avengers movies. All the mcu movies this year (gotg 2, thor , spiderman) have a generic factor to them. Logan always looked more authentic than those movies and we see why. I got the same feeling when I saw the first teaser for DOFP in 2013, I knew it was going to be a stand out I knew apocalypse was going to turn out bad for many reason so wont defend apocalypse. you can cry all you want about costumes but costumes will always look ridiculous in the real world of people with ''special abilities''. Buffy, Neo and Spock had super powers and I did not see them wearing costumes. X-Men does not need costumes. I like the black they wear since it matches the serious tone and grounded world of their movies. I also dont make it a big deal. I hope Deadpool is not the new face of x-men,. overall I am looking forward to the new mutants and x-force and hope they become the new faces of x-men. I can’t see mcu making new mutants and x-force either. Neither can I see them making dark phoenix and I have no interest in the film. X-Men either it is with their good movies (logan, X2, FC, DOFP) and Legion that just puts MCU to shame, X-Men stands out better in their own universe with more creative freedom from the directors and writers and taking the less incorporated kid friendly approach to comic films like the mcu.. How long are all of you MCU fans going to pretend GOTG 2 was great when it was almost unwatchable, .You all will look back and see another Age of Ultron, only this time it will be worse than ultron and the rest of the messed up movies MCU has made. They probably will when they crap on X-men even more than they have before. They'll get the wrong idea from the movies that were successful. No substance and story? GotG had all story. That movie had all kinds of feels. Just because you guys only see it as an MCU movie is on you. Appealed more to kids? Nah. See the thing about that is that you guys want a certain movie to be above all so anything that isn't dark and depressing is for kids. And Fox isn't looking back sadly at their older movies? You do know that they rebooted F4 and will do so again. They rebooted the X-men universe because those movies were crapped on. Sony rebooted their Spider-man movies twice and will do so again. The funny thing is that Sony had to use the MCU to make the character popular again. Fox will make another F4 movie just to keep the rights and save face because they know the MCU version is sure to be more popular. The Sony movies didn't have vision before. The Raimi movies were just tacked on. The same as the X-men movies. They had no clue what they were going to do next. Sony wanted a Spider-verse before. That's why the ASM movies were crapped. They did the same thing as the DCEU. Fox might be a good studio to make the X-men if they had someone in charge of the movies that had more vision than it has to be grounded. X-men should not be grounded. X-men is fantasy. If you deny that then you are not a fan of X-men is just a Fox loving "lunatic" and a Disney hater. About X-Force and Deadpool. You guys keep acting like it was Fox's idea to make Deadpool. They wanted to bury it until it they saw how much the fans liked the "leaked" footage and gave Reynolds and Miller "go away" money. And it was still basically an independent movie that Fox did not advertise. It made money in spite of Fox. And what did they do? They crawled all over it like it was totally their idea to make it R. Next thing they do is let Mangold make the R rated Logan and try to throw all the money at Deadpool 2. Even throwing out actor announcements for Deadpool 2. They are pretty much forgetting about the core X-men movies. They drop a "generic" title for the movie, but no director? Sounds pretty fishy. Generic factor? Nothing looks like the MCU movies except the MCU movies. And how many times are you going to name drop Logan. Seems to me that's all actual Fox has. And DoFP wasn't a standout. Just from the teaser and knowing who the director is, I could tell what was going to happen in the movie. Same went for Apocalypse. Singer lost "vision" after X-men (2000). Even Superman Returns was a retread. Because X-men is a fantasy superhero story. Buffy is a high school girl set in the supernatural. Why would she have on a costume? Neo is a superhero in a virtual world where the people see them as looking like the superheroes in comic books. That's the point of the sunglasses and the trench coats. It's meant to look like domino masks and capes. Spock was an alien and had alien abilities. Plus the Star Fleet uniforms they wear are superhero costumes. Also, I'm saying they are wearing school uniforms. Not costumes. They aren't going on patrol. They are wearing school uniforms. And the X-men movies are not serious or grounded. The movies keep bringing in doomsday machines that they stick a person in to change or kill people. There is nothing grounded about that in the least. Prepare to be disappointed. They greenlit Deadpool as fast as they could. They put a rush on getting a director when Miller stepped out. They made a teaser trailer for a movie that hasn't even been written. They now have a release date. X-Force is going to be Deadpool 3. They aren't going to evolve New Mutants into X-Force like the comics. And that's another one, they already have plans for Deadpool 3. They are going to water down X-Force. It should be a high action, Michael Bay-type movie. Fox isn't going to give them money for that. Dark Phoenix should be something big, but I'm guessing they are just going to rework their X3 that they were going to do instead of Superman Returns. Something stuck on Earth. Creative freedom? The writers and director put a restraint on themselves because they don't want to do anything silly. Creative freedom means you can do what ever you want to, but they constantly are telling us things they can't do. There's that line drawing again. I loved Logan and First Class*, but you throw out "you MCU fans" like you can only like one studio. We want the X-men movies to do better. First Class was the best "X-men" movie because they actually looked like they were trying to make and X-men movie and not back away from it. DoFP crapped on all of what they accomplished. Apocalypse is a parody. It's like they just wanted to tell us "we tried and it doesn't work" when we see the contrary. We just need better people behind the camera and behind the people behind the camera. *I know you are going to ignore that so you can try and prove a point. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2017 21:55:07 GMT
I know this will sound insane but I am happy apocalypse turned out the way it did because it will give fox a clue on what works and doesn't work. let's all look at the 180 it did compared to the other X-Men greats: X2, DOFP, First Class. 1. Messy plot? check 2. more ''comic bookie'' to those who don't know not all comic book movies are the same? check 3. costumes in the end? check 4. destroy the world? check 5. OOC CGI? check 6. Using one star to sell the movie instead of making the movie about the ensemble? check 7. Weak story arc? Check RESULT? Dreadpocalypse.Its good the movie failed for most x-men fans and clearly not for fox financially since they green-lighted an unnecessary sequel with the same prequel cast. Apocalypse didn't work because of the people making the movie. You can't blame the movie when it doesn't come out right. Blame the people making it and making pointless jokes about 3rd movies being the worst. I think they knew they were making a bad movie. I'm just glad Oscar Isaac had on all that make up so no one knew who he was. And the X-men movies have been about using one star to sell the movie. They've done that from the beginning. The OT was all Hugh Jackman (the characters on X-men 2000). Nobody will remember that guy that was Cyclops. Nobody will remember who played Jean Grey. The PT was all Jennifer Lawrence... except Kevin Bacon on First Class. Unless they get someone for New Mutants, it will be the characters like X-men 2000. I think what X-men need to do is totally redo the series. Get young actors to play late teen versions in modern time. Don't go grounded. Go urban fantasy* like it should be. Focus on just a group of them (don't open the school up like they did). When characters start getting too many, spin some off into other movies like X-Factor. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 13, 2017 21:58:26 GMT
It was more public opinion and the climate around it is what I mean. That's why I was saying that Spider-man 2 made it a disaster. So did Spiderman 2 make Batman Begins a disaster (2005)? Rushing X3 and hiring Bret Ratner, who is more of an action guy than a story teller made X3 a disaster. No, Batman and Robin did that. Batman Begins should have made way money than it did. It retroactively did well with The Dark Knight. People that saw Batman Begins afterward went out and saw TDK. |
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