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Post by formersamhmd on May 13, 2017 22:34:29 GMT
Singer's original plan for X3 wasn't much good anyways.
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Post by summers8 on May 14, 2017 0:13:47 GMT
Would TDK have done well without Ledger? Spiderman, X-Men, Batman have no link and are responsible for their own sucess and failure. the only link I see with these movies is when Raimi praised TDK and Nolan praised x-men.
If fox craps on x-men, MCU will lay waste to the series..After 10 films, fox problem is usually the third film. Fox has done better sequels than the MCU and now have the best third film. If anyone gets the wrong idea it is MCU, All their sequels are worse and weaker than the first film. Its like if the first film is dumb, the second film has to be dumber. Iron Man 2, Thor 2, GOTG, AOU. Because a movie is fun and has humour does not mean it has a story. i don’t think mcu has any interest in story. It’s not just their style of things.
Sony rebooted Spiderman once with the amazing Spiderman movies and rushed the MCU deal. Now, they’re in a mess because sony still wants their own vision for Spiderman that is clashing with mcu. If sony made another Spiderman movie that was great, the series would have been fine. Sony never needed the MCU, its a mistake they are going to lament about in the long haul. Sony had just one failure with Spiderman and they quickly rushed to make a deal, its was a poor decision if you ask me. You say fox is stubborn. I say Fox is smart. I also don’t care about popularity just looking at how much MCU is already burning faster than a candle in the wind, MCU has nowhere else to go since all their movies are the same and will always be the same, they will burn out...already are. if popularity is the only card you have then you better find another card to play , popularity especially a disney franchise that is for kids does not equal good.
If you think x-men should not be grounded than you should read more x-men comics . Marvel comics are more grounded than DC, why else do you think all their heroes were more human and got their powers by accident or out of reluctance unlike the DC Gods. Marvel characters lived in real places like new York instead of Gotham and so on and dealt with more human issues. This is what set marvel apart from DC. Disney came along and realised that the grounded world approach Would not make marvel accessible to kids like they think it should, so they went with the occ fantasy and less grounded approach with their movies, hence gotg and avengers always look like cartoons , joke round every 5 seconds and are severely light hearted. It also contradicts the Netflix approach which is more grounded and better than their movies. X-Men might be fantasy (some times) but x-men had high realism to it, After all x-men stories was to give an through the looking glass view of our own reality which requires a grounded world. Logan and First Class are just one of the greats x-men movies, two movies that marvel would never have made. Two movies with creative freedom and two of the most grounded comic films ever made. The cinematography of first class alone gives you an insight that the world was real.
Buffy is actually superhero, her mum called her one and so did xander, she could have chosen to wear costumes but whedon chose not to. Neo could have chosen goofy costumes but that didn’t happen. Because a character does not come from a comic does not make them not a superhero. A superhero is any character that has special powers and uses it to fight evil. That is a superhero. DOFP not been a stand out with MCU fans has no bearing on fox and us x-men fans It still better than all the retarded safe kid friendly mcu movies.
I credit deadpool to the director, writers and actors. The same way I credit X2 to Singer, Logan to Mangold and First Class to Mathew Vaughn, What to learn from deadpool, logan, X2, FC is that the fox shareholders needs to stay away and let the people do the job, I blame apocalypse on fox trying to be more ''comic bookie'' and was happy Kinberg took full responsibility and admitted the problems of the film. What fox needs to do is provide the money and let the hired people do the job, can you say the same about Disney?
Forgetting the core x-men movies will be the best thing after almost 20 years of many ups and a few downs. All superhero franchises had to rebuild and reboot and it is x-men turn. What fox should do is to allow X-Force and the new mutants to reboot the core x-men films. There is no doubt the singer movies have all burned out and needs a fresh start . Logan was a fitting end to those movies.An an end that is very x-menish.
I like all studios and I like Disney when they make movies for kids like they should but do not allow them anywhere x-men, if you want x-men to do better, Disney is not the answer. its not hate, its facts. You should read a comic if you think X-Force should be like a Michael bay type of movie. Avengers are Michael bay type of movies. X-Force is a more x-treme version of x-men. An x-force movie should be like the dark knight returns or logan or the x-force of the comics not transformers.
Creative freedom is stopping yourself from doing something silly and wrong because of millionaire stake holders, most mcu movies tend to be redundant and retarded for lack of C.F. The silliness of the mandarin situation, most of gotg vol 2, iron man 2, thor 2, hulk, ultron , ant man was the lack of creative freedom. Marvel’s lack of creative freedom is the reason all their movies are the same and are not memorable and tend to get a lot of bashing from other film makers (MANGOLD of recent) in the business who value creative freedom more than anything else. watch Legion to see creative freedom at its all time best
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 14, 2017 4:13:42 GMT
I know this will sound insane but I am happy apocalypse turned out the way it did because it will give fox a clue on what works and doesn't work. let's all look at the 180 it did compared to the other X-Men greats: X2, DOFP, First Class. 1. Messy plot? check 2. more ''comic bookie'' to those who don't know not all comic book movies are the same? check 3. costumes in the end? check 4. destroy the world? check 5. OOC CGI? check 6. Using one star to sell the movie instead of making the movie about the ensemble? check 7. Weak story arc? Check RESULT? Dreadpocalypse.Its good the movie failed for most x-men fans and clearly not for fox financially since they green-lighted an unnecessary sequel with the same prequel cast. Except they didn't. JLaw had little screentime in that film, her storyline was a subplot that doesn't matter in the grand scheme, and was overall useless against Apocalypse.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 14, 2017 4:47:19 GMT
Apocalypse didn't work because of the people making the movie. You can't blame the movie when it doesn't come out right. Blame the people making it and making pointless jokes about 3rd movies being the worst. I think they knew they were making a bad movie. I'm just glad Oscar Isaac had on all that make up so no one knew who he was. They knew Apocalypse doesn't stand on its own very well. It's pretty much a set-up movie that made head scratching decisions that weren't made clear until subsequential films. Such as the Weapon X scene which was seemly pointless until Logan revealed its purpose.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 14, 2017 13:14:37 GMT
Apocalypse didn't work because of the people making the movie. You can't blame the movie when it doesn't come out right. Blame the people making it and making pointless jokes about 3rd movies being the worst. I think they knew they were making a bad movie. I'm just glad Oscar Isaac had on all that make up so no one knew who he was. They knew Apocalypse doesn't stand on its own very well. It's pretty much a set-up movie that made head scratching decisions that weren't made clear until subsequential films. Such as the Weapon X scene which was seemly pointless until Logan revealed its purpose. Apocalypse should have been their event movie. Their Infinity War. Everything in the movies before this lead to this big bad showing up. That's how Apocalypse "stands on its own". Apocalypse has always been a build up character. It should have been that big movie that ends the trilogy. But the way they decide to do it, they made it the 1st of a new series. All kinds of bad decisions and lack of imagination.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 14, 2017 13:16:23 GMT
I know this will sound insane but I am happy apocalypse turned out the way it did because it will give fox a clue on what works and doesn't work. let's all look at the 180 it did compared to the other X-Men greats: X2, DOFP, First Class. 1. Messy plot? check 2. more ''comic bookie'' to those who don't know not all comic book movies are the same? check 3. costumes in the end? check 4. destroy the world? check 5. OOC CGI? check 6. Using one star to sell the movie instead of making the movie about the ensemble? check 7. Weak story arc? Check RESULT? Dreadpocalypse.Its good the movie failed for most x-men fans and clearly not for fox financially since they green-lighted an unnecessary sequel with the same prequel cast. Except they didn't. JLaw had little screentime in that film, her storyline was a subplot that doesn't matter in the grand scheme, and was overall useless against Apocalypse. He does say using one star to "sell" the movie. JLaw was that star.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 14, 2017 13:38:08 GMT
Would TDK have done well without Ledger? Spiderman, X-Men, Batman have no link and are responsible for their own sucess and failure. the only link I see with these movies is when Raimi praised TDK and Nolan praised x-men. If fox craps on x-men, MCU will lay waste to the series..After 10 films, fox problem is usually the third film. Fox has done better sequels than the MCU and now have the best third film. If anyone gets the wrong idea it is MCU, All their sequels are worse and weaker than the first film. Its like if the first film is dumb, the second film has to be dumber. Iron Man 2, Thor 2, GOTG, AOU. Because a movie is fun and has humour does not mean it has a story. i don’t think mcu has any interest in story. It’s not just their style of things. Sony rebooted Spiderman once with the amazing Spiderman movies and rushed the MCU deal. Now, they’re in a mess because sony still wants their own vision for Spiderman that is clashing with mcu. If sony made another Spiderman movie that was great, the series would have been fine. Sony never needed the MCU, its a mistake they are going to lament about in the long haul. Sony had just one failure with Spiderman and they quickly rushed to make a deal, its was a poor decision if you ask me. You say fox is stubborn. I say Fox is smart. I also don’t care about popularity just looking at how much MCU is already burning faster than a candle in the wind, MCU has nowhere else to go since all their movies are the same and will always be the same, they will burn out...already are. if popularity is the only card you have then you better find another card to play , popularity especially a disney franchise that is for kids does not equal good. If you think x-men should not be grounded than you should read more x-men comics . Marvel comics are more grounded than DC, why else do you think all their heroes were more human and got their powers by accident or out of reluctance unlike the DC Gods. Marvel characters lived in real places like new York instead of Gotham and so on and dealt with more human issues. This is what set marvel apart from DC. Disney came along and realised that the grounded world approach Would not make marvel accessible to kids like they think it should, so they went with the occ fantasy and less grounded approach with their movies, hence gotg and avengers always look like cartoons , joke round every 5 seconds and are severely light hearted. It also contradicts the Netflix approach which is more grounded and better than their movies. X-Men might be fantasy (some times) but x-men had high realism to it, After all x-men stories was to give an through the looking glass view of our own reality which requires a grounded world. Logan and First Class are just one of the greats x-men movies, two movies that marvel would never have made. Two movies with creative freedom and two of the most grounded comic films ever made. The cinematography of first class alone gives you an insight that the world was real. Buffy is actually superhero, her mum called her one and so did xander, she could have chosen to wear costumes but whedon chose not to. Neo could have chosen goofy costumes but that didn’t happen. Because a character does not come from a comic does not make them not a superhero. A superhero is any character that has special powers and uses it to fight evil. That is a superhero. DOFP not been a stand out with MCU fans has no bearing on fox and us x-men fans It still better than all the retarded safe kid friendly mcu movies. I credit deadpool to the director, writers and actors. The same way I credit X2 to Singer, Logan to Mangold and First Class to Mathew Vaughn, What to learn from deadpool, logan, X2, FC is that the fox shareholders needs to stay away and let the people do the job, I blame apocalypse on fox trying to be more ''comic bookie'' and was happy Kinberg took full responsibility and admitted the problems of the film. What fox needs to do is provide the money and let the hired people do the job, can you say the same about Disney? Forgetting the core x-men movies will be the best thing after almost 20 years of many ups and a few downs. All superhero franchises had to rebuild and reboot and it is x-men turn. What fox should do is to allow X-Force and the new mutants to reboot the core x-men films. There is no doubt the singer movies have all burned out and needs a fresh start . Logan was a fitting end to those movies.An an end that is very x-menish. I like all studios and I like Disney when they make movies for kids like they should but do not allow them anywhere x-men, if you want x-men to do better, Disney is not the answer. its not hate, its facts. You should read a comic if you think X-Force should be like a Michael bay type of movie. Avengers are Michael bay type of movies. X-Force is a more x-treme version of x-men. An x-force movie should be like the dark knight returns or logan or the x-force of the comics not transformers. Creative freedom is stopping yourself from doing something silly and wrong because of millionaire stake holders, most mcu movies tend to be redundant and retarded for lack of C.F. The silliness of the mandarin situation, most of gotg vol 2, iron man 2, thor 2, hulk, ultron , ant man was the lack of creative freedom. Marvel’s lack of creative freedom is the reason all their movies are the same and are not memorable and tend to get a lot of bashing from other film makers (MANGOLD of recent) in the business who value creative freedom more than anything else. watch Legion to see creative freedom at its all time best FOX hasn't made any sequels that are better than MCU sequels. X2 wasn't that good, it just had no real competition at the time and now nostalgia makes it seem better than it was. And the MCU isn't going anywhere, it's set new standards that FOX could never have hoped to do. And their stories are better than the 1-D storytelling the FoX-Men movies give us. At least they don't exploit the Holocaust for a banal story. And no, being "grounded" is bad. It's a sign of how ashamed you are of the source material. All that Chris Claremont stuff X-Fans hide behind? Claremont wrote about space aliens and vampires and over the top stuff in his X-men run ALL THE TIME. No costumes? It's because you're disgusted with the source material. The Netflix shows have the excuse that they have a limited budget and simply can't do that kind of stuff as much as they want. It's actually becoming a detriment. And Legion isn't that good either. If the MCU got their hands on X-Men, we'd all be better off for it. None of this "grounded" garbage. PS, Logan is overrated and Mangold is overrated. The movie only did as well as it did because the critics knew it was Jackman's last hurrah as Logan and because he died in the end. Nothing more.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 14, 2017 14:31:55 GMT
Would TDK have done well without Ledger? Spiderman, X-Men, Batman have no link and are responsible for their own sucess and failure. the only link I see with these movies is when Raimi praised TDK and Nolan praised x-men. If fox craps on x-men, MCU will lay waste to the series..After 10 films, fox problem is usually the third film. Fox has done better sequels than the MCU and now have the best third film. If anyone gets the wrong idea it is MCU, All their sequels are worse and weaker than the first film. Its like if the first film is dumb, the second film has to be dumber. Iron Man 2, Thor 2, GOTG, AOU. Because a movie is fun and has humour does not mean it has a story. i don’t think mcu has any interest in story. It’s not just their style of things. Sony rebooted Spiderman once with the amazing Spiderman movies and rushed the MCU deal. Now, they’re in a mess because sony still wants their own vision for Spiderman that is clashing with mcu. If sony made another Spiderman movie that was great, the series would have been fine. Sony never needed the MCU, its a mistake they are going to lament about in the long haul. Sony had just one failure with Spiderman and they quickly rushed to make a deal, its was a poor decision if you ask me. You say fox is stubborn. I say Fox is smart. I also don’t care about popularity just looking at how much MCU is already burning faster than a candle in the wind, MCU has nowhere else to go since all their movies are the same and will always be the same, they will burn out...already are. if popularity is the only card you have then you better find another card to play , popularity especially a disney franchise that is for kids does not equal good. If you think x-men should not be grounded than you should read more x-men comics . Marvel comics are more grounded than DC, why else do you think all their heroes were more human and got their powers by accident or out of reluctance unlike the DC Gods. Marvel characters lived in real places like new York instead of Gotham and so on and dealt with more human issues. This is what set marvel apart from DC. Disney came along and realised that the grounded world approach Would not make marvel accessible to kids like they think it should, so they went with the occ fantasy and less grounded approach with their movies, hence gotg and avengers always look like cartoons , joke round every 5 seconds and are severely light hearted. It also contradicts the Netflix approach which is more grounded and better than their movies. X-Men might be fantasy (some times) but x-men had high realism to it, After all x-men stories was to give an through the looking glass view of our own reality which requires a grounded world. Logan and First Class are just one of the greats x-men movies, two movies that marvel would never have made. Two movies with creative freedom and two of the most grounded comic films ever made. The cinematography of first class alone gives you an insight that the world was real. Buffy is actually superhero, her mum called her one and so did xander, she could have chosen to wear costumes but whedon chose not to. Neo could have chosen goofy costumes but that didn’t happen. Because a character does not come from a comic does not make them not a superhero. A superhero is any character that has special powers and uses it to fight evil. That is a superhero. DOFP not been a stand out with MCU fans has no bearing on fox and us x-men fans It still better than all the retarded safe kid friendly mcu movies. I credit deadpool to the director, writers and actors. The same way I credit X2 to Singer, Logan to Mangold and First Class to Mathew Vaughn, What to learn from deadpool, logan, X2, FC is that the fox shareholders needs to stay away and let the people do the job, I blame apocalypse on fox trying to be more ''comic bookie'' and was happy Kinberg took full responsibility and admitted the problems of the film. What fox needs to do is provide the money and let the hired people do the job, can you say the same about Disney? Forgetting the core x-men movies will be the best thing after almost 20 years of many ups and a few downs. All superhero franchises had to rebuild and reboot and it is x-men turn. What fox should do is to allow X-Force and the new mutants to reboot the core x-men films. There is no doubt the singer movies have all burned out and needs a fresh start . Logan was a fitting end to those movies.An an end that is very x-menish. I like all studios and I like Disney when they make movies for kids like they should but do not allow them anywhere x-men, if you want x-men to do better, Disney is not the answer. its not hate, its facts. You should read a comic if you think X-Force should be like a Michael bay type of movie. Avengers are Michael bay type of movies. X-Force is a more x-treme version of x-men. An x-force movie should be like the dark knight returns or logan or the x-force of the comics not transformers. Creative freedom is stopping yourself from doing something silly and wrong because of millionaire stake holders, most mcu movies tend to be redundant and retarded for lack of C.F. The silliness of the mandarin situation, most of gotg vol 2, iron man 2, thor 2, hulk, ultron , ant man was the lack of creative freedom. Marvel’s lack of creative freedom is the reason all their movies are the same and are not memorable and tend to get a lot of bashing from other film makers (MANGOLD of recent) in the business who value creative freedom more than anything else. watch Legion to see creative freedom at its all time best I think The Dark Knight would have. Their link is coming out around the same time. Would the DCEU be seen as good if it came out in the early 2000s? Most likely. But the current climate of movies hinders it because people see that the way movie makers have been telling us you can't make CBMs is actually being made. So they are going against the old ways of doing it. They are still telling us that you can't do certain things while the evidence is saying otherwise. The evidence is telling us otherwise. The MCU is actually doing good for CBMs in that we see that you can make CBMs. Other studios are telling us that you can't make them as they are in the comics. People like you are saying that you can't make them like they are in the comics because they other studios are telling you this. People like you and Luke are parroting movie makers like Singer because you have been listening to him for years and take it as gospel. Now you go against the movies that are actually doing this because now you see it as wrong. People that prefer the way the MCU are doing are the same people that have been saying that Singer and his like are wrong for years and a fresh pair of eyes should be put on X-men. The DCEU is at this weird place of making the movies like the comics, but saying that we need to change a lot of it up. Be different from the others instead of being true to what they are making. And the MCU has way more story than the X-men movies. I'm tired of seeing Magneto join with them, betray them and become the main villain every movie. They didn't really rush the MCU deal. They were having talks for a bit after ASM2. The hacks is the only thing that pushed it a bit. They already had an actor for Civil War, but wanted to keep it secret. It's not about them wanting a vision. They used the MCU to make Spider-man popular again. Now they'll take the character back and reboot him so they'll have all the money for themselves. They cast a new actor after the contract is up with MS and reboot him again. Probably add him into the movies they already have coming. Then screw the character up again. They called her a superhero because she has powers and said in jest. But Buffy is basically a dhampir. She's a supernatural hunter. The Matrix is based on anime and manga. The idea is that they aren't superheros, but that we see them as such. Like I said before, their sunglasses are suppose to be seen as domino masks. You know the mask that Robin wears. Their long coats are suppose to be capes. They aren't wearing capes, but a person on the street looking up and seeing Neo flying would see him as wearing a cape. Disney isn't doing anything but giving Marvel Studios the money to make the movies. They don't have a say so in what goes on with the movies. You see Marvel Studios had a committee up until AoU that were hands on. They got rid of them. And I don't think you get that Rothman was pretty hands on all the way up until X-men Origins. Maybe even First Class. Everything after that was Singer. Even The Wolverine. Why do you think the Wolverine costume was cut from that movie. Who do you think put the stinger at the end of The Wolverine? Apocalypse was all Singer. DoFP was mostly Vaughn before he left. Apocalypse is what you get when Singer is let loose with no studio interference. They let him get his way after the good will of DoFP. Kinberg took the blame for Apocalypse because he is the punching bag after X3 and F4. When it was said that he was going to direct X-men: Supernova (now Dark Phoenix) people almost burned down Fox. It is hate. Because Disney has nothing to do with Marvel Studios besides owning them. Disney owned Miramax when they made a lot of good movies like Pulp Fiction. Disney doesn't interfere with their subsidiary studios. It is hate when you keep blaming Disney for what you don't like about the MCU. Creative freedom is doing what you want. Not being hindered by someone else or even yourself. Part of creative freedom is being creative. When you say you can't do something you aren't being creative. No studio franchise movie has total creative freedom. The X-men movies are restrictive in what they can do because they don't have the full roster of Marvel characters. Where's Wanda? Where is Captain Marvel? BUt really if they had any creativity in their heads they could use Polaris and a mutant with Captain Marvel-like powers. The only time you will get that is making your own independent movie. Silliness of the Mandarin situation? That was the best. It was a troll move that I knew while watching the movie would piss people off and it did. I loved it. They did the old switcheroo on you guys and you cried about it. Four years later and you are still crying. GotG2 had more feels than all the X-men movies put together. It put Magneto's family's death to shame. And I like how you say creative freedom is restricting yourself from doing silly things but then site Legion as creative freedom...
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Post by claudius on May 14, 2017 16:09:21 GMT
'All that Chris Claremont stuff X-Fans hide behind? Claremont wrote about space aliens and vampires and over the top stuff in his X-men run ALL THE TIME.'
Actually, Claremont used vampires only twice (159 and Annual 6). Then again, they could count with interdimensional demons like the N'Garai, S'ym, the Limbo demons, the Adversary, etc.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 14, 2017 16:13:37 GMT
'All that Chris Claremont stuff X-Fans hide behind? Claremont wrote about space aliens and vampires and over the top stuff in his X-men run ALL THE TIME.' Actually, Claremont used vampires only twice (159 and Annual 6). Then again, they could count with interdimensional demons like the N'Garai, S'ym, the Limbo demons, the Adversary, etc. Well, I think you know what I'm getting at. He did this crazy over the top stuff all the darn time.
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Post by claudius on May 14, 2017 17:32:55 GMT
I know, although I could argue the 'space, aliens, magical beings/dimensions, entities' part (which I wouldn't consider a bad thing) made up a half (slightly more, but not overall) of the time in CC's original 16-year association with the X-franchise.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 14, 2017 17:35:39 GMT
I know, although I could argue the 'space, aliens, magical beings/dimensions, entities' part (which I wouldn't consider a bad thing) made up a half (slightly more, but not overall) of the time in CC's original 16-year association with the X-franchise. Which is still enough to make the "X-Men should be grounded! No aliens, no magic, no other superbeings!" crowd out to be a bunch of hypocrites.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 14, 2017 17:56:35 GMT
They knew Apocalypse doesn't stand on its own very well. It's pretty much a set-up movie that made head scratching decisions that weren't made clear until subsequential films. Such as the Weapon X scene which was seemly pointless until Logan revealed its purpose. Apocalypse should have been their event movie. Their Infinity War. Everything in the movies before this lead to this big bad showing up. That's how Apocalypse "stands on its own". Apocalypse has always been a build up character. It should have been that big movie that ends the trilogy. But the way they decide to do it, they made it the 1st of a new series. All kinds of bad decisions and lack of imagination. Apocalypse isn't really much of a build-up character nor much of a X-Men villian. He started out as the Magneto of the original X-Factor and then became the Sabretooth of the Summer-Grey family until they killed him off for good. And the story the film was based happened very early in his publication history as a side story of Fall of The Mutants rather than a big event. I don't see how it would be imaginative to rip-off Infinity War, especially for a villian that always paled in comparison to Thanos as he was always easily defeated by the Summers. The only time he was ever a build-up big bad was in X-Men: Evolution.
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Post by summers8 on May 14, 2017 18:19:07 GMT
What the evidence tell us is CBMS tend to vary and are not the same and MCU cbms tend to be more disposable in the long haul. The overview of people that did not know much about comics, thinking it was a void thing to have fun with, with lots of flashy cgi that appeal mostly to kids . MCU tend to prove these things are true . X-Men tends to do otherwise. this is where the best x-men movies play their part by making cbms better for the world than mcu movies. Sony rushed the marvel deal. They made the deal when they knew they wanted to continue with the own spin offs. Sony did not sit down and look at all their options and what Disney will allow them to do and not do. Its funny because sony wanted to get out of a mess , now they are in more mess. I did think Sony will bow down to everything Disney wants but it look like sony are less pushovers than I thought. I won’t get into another argument of buffy or neo but you need to accept that superheroes clothing have evolved and many fans and people that like them don’t believe they need to wear colourful costume in movies. That is childish thinking and I blame this for you blind love of the mcu. Like mangold said, something should exist only in the world of the comic books and adapted differently for live action. those are the facts and won't change. If you watch the Nolan movies, batman gave a fantastic reason way he dresses up as a Bat and Bruce himself took a shot at it at the party with his business partners because it was indeed crazy and Nolan addressed it. ..’’’guy dresses as a bat clearly he is nuts’’’ The chief police officer once said batman is as dumb as his dresses in TDKR. Some of you mcu fans will call it... hating the source material but it isn’t. Its about bringing realness to the world to a good extent. Above all , you don’t need colourful costumes to be heroes. X-men is not defined by costumes, x- men is defined by their stories, heroes, villains and themes. Legion is the best comic book tv show and I did not see any costumes not even on the astral plane. It would be easy to believe you about Disney and marvel If I could '''not read the papers''. But please don’t sit there and tell me Disney has nothing to do with marvel. Disney is the master of marvel. Do you think opening a movie with a dancing little groot is marvel’s idea, I don’t even think I ever saw that in a marvel cartoon. Do you think marvel not making an r rated movie or always making light hearted ooc colourful comedy movies is their idea? Did you think it was marvel's choice to recton SW/QS mutant background in the comics? Disney is the mastermind of marvel. I don’t doubt the higher powers at fox has some influence but I will say some. Disney influence is many. Here is the hard facts about Singer- He has already been involved with 4 x-men movies where the singerism dominated. So in reality, Apocalypse is the first movie with a major studio interference. Singer was always against costumes, Singer was always about keeping things smaller and did not like much destruction or stories that revolved around ..bad guys wants to destroy the world, singer was never really a fan of the physically comic booky villains, Singer favoured more story than cgi. Then come apocalypse and none of this is in the movie. So the facts are there and prove you wrong about singer. To show you how wrong you are , kingberg said the movie got lost. The original intention of the movie was to be smaller and about family which is quite close to the singerism but according to kingberg the film just became about bad guy that wants to destroy the world. this is the studio inference.please do read to know the facts. comicbook.com/marvel/2017/02/25/x-men-apocalypse-mistakes-simon-kinberg/ Fox probably looked at avengers and transformers and said movies that blow the world and don’t have much story in them make more so money so there...you do that singer. Studio inference has ruined more than half of the mcu movies compared to x-men. Disney is the reason for studio inference. They have to monitor all the mcu movies to make sure it is approachable to kids and this does not often suit well with the people they hire. If Disney owned MX so why can’t Disney make an r rated marvel movie? Simple question. Fox, sony and WB can do it. So why cant marvel do it and dont give the crap that is is not necessary. And why do all their movie follow the same fun action packed cgi comedy formula? it is not hate, we have known all along before Disney bought marvel that Disney is a kids franchise and since we also have kids in our family and were once kids ourselves. We like other studios that appealed to grownups and can tell adult themes stories.. You are saying Disney has nothing to do with marvel but Disney plans all their movies and gives the direction their movies needs to go. Spiderman Homecoming has been marketed as the second coming of my suit life with cody or whatever, a far cry from the darker and horror themed marketing of Spiderman 3 or the thriller themed marketing of spiderman 2004 or the coming of age romanticism of spiderman 2002 . Are you going to sit there and pretend that Disney is not the cause for the change? As a mcu fan you are obliged to say GOTG had more feels than all the x-men movies put together but as a person who likes movies that appeal to my age, x-men movies had more feels than all the mcu movies. We would have to take mcu movies seriously first to get the feels and we cant do that when they are all cgi infested comedies.. . Gotg 2 feel is lost because they dropped unfunny jokes to take away the moments. I am glad this has been one of the biggest out there criticism of the movie because it happens with every mcu movie...maybe the softballs critics are getting fed up with it. I am sure if GOTG had feels, we would have felt it.....Logan style.. All I got from gotg is that I need to buy groots for kids if I had any. MCU is the most superficial cbm series. Wonder Woman would have more feels than GOTG 2 if the critics play fair. Creative freedom is doing what you want, so Joss Whedon jumped ship to DC and MCU does not put out better sequels than their first And more importantly, X-Men is clearly better off on their own. Okay pal. Yeah right...x-force is meant to be like transformers. Clearly mcu fans have not gotten over the Thanos/Cable thing. you are actually comparing x-force to transformers when avengers are the transformers of cbms. Have you ever seen Inglorious Bastards? You know those vigilante Jews that lunched a diabolical plan to eliminate Nazis in the most sadistic way possible, That is how the x-force team operates, if logan was influenced by classic western movie (Shane), x-force should be influenced by inglorious bastards. Tell me the similarities between inglorious bastards and transformers because I can sure tell you the similarities between transformers and the mcu.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 14, 2017 18:51:29 GMT
Apocalypse should have been their event movie. Their Infinity War. Everything in the movies before this lead to this big bad showing up. That's how Apocalypse "stands on its own". Apocalypse has always been a build up character. It should have been that big movie that ends the trilogy. But the way they decide to do it, they made it the 1st of a new series. All kinds of bad decisions and lack of imagination. Apocalypse isn't really much of a build-up character nor much of a X-Men villian. He started out as the Magneto of the original X-Factor and then became the Sabretooth of the Summer-Grey family until they killed him off for good. And the story the film was based happened very early in his publication history as a side story of Fall of The Mutants rather than a big event. I don't see how it would be imaginative to rip-off Infinity War, especially for a villian that always paled in comparison to Thanos as he was always easily defeated by the Summers. See, you went straight for "OMG I don't want it like an MCU movie!" When I say their Infinity War I mean what all the movies had built up to. Another example is Palpatine in the Star Wars OT. They mention him in A New Hope. They show a hologram of him in Empire. They then reveal him and make him the big bad in RotJ. Build up. If they thought in advanced The Hellfire Club and Mystique* would have been agents of Apocalypse. Not Horsemen, but agents. Mystique is a shapeshifter and a very old character. She could have been around since way back then. Same goes for how they made Shaw. First Class has the same plot line as Apocalypse. The same villain structure. They could have peppered it with hints of "his" coming and such. DoFP is the same way. Instead of making it solely about them changing the future from being taken over by the sentinels. Make it about taking out the guy behind the guy. Make it that Mystique* willingly helped Trask because Apocalypse had her do it. Drop hints and history of this guy, but don't reveal who he is. Then in the 3rd movie you have all the Apocalypse stuff. You reveal him and everything about him (since you know they'll kill him off). This is the movie you go all out on. The big event movie. The trilogy ender. But, nah, let's try to fit it all in one movie. *These are things that people was hoping for. There were all kinds of fan art and theories of Mystique working for Apocalypse in the 3rd movie because that is Mystique's character.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 14, 2017 18:51:54 GMT
What the evidence tell us is CBMS tend to vary and are not the same and MCU cbms tend to be more disposable in the long haul. The overview of people that did not know much about comics, thinking it was a void thing to have fun with, with lots of flashy cgi that appeal mostly to kids . MCU tend to prove these things are true . X-Men tends to do otherwise. this is where the best x-men movies play their part by making cbms better for the world than mcu movies. Sony rushed the marvel deal. They made the deal when they knew they wanted to continue with the own spin offs. Sony did not sit down and look at all their options and what Disney will allow them to do and not do. Its funny because sony wanted to get out of a mess , now they are in more mess. I did think Sony will bow down to everything Disney wants but it look like sony are less pushovers than I thought. I won’t get into another argument of buffy or neo but you need to accept that superheroes clothing have evolved and many fans and people that like them don’t believe they need to wear colourful costume in movies. That is childish thinking and I blame this for you blind love of the mcu. Like mangold said, something should exist only in the world of the comic books and adapted differently for live action. those are the facts and won't change. If you watch the Nolan movies, batman gave a fantastic reason way he dresses up as a Bat and Bruce himself took a shot at it at the party with his business partners because it was indeed crazy and Nolan addressed it. ..’’’guy dresses as a bat clearly he is nuts’’’ The chief police officer once said batman is as dumb as his dresses in TDKR. Some of you mcu fans will call it... hating the source material but it isn’t. Its about bringing realness to the world to a good extent. Above all , you don’t need colourful costumes to be heroes. X-men is not defined by costumes, x- men is defined by their stories, heroes, villains and themes. Legion is the best comic book tv show and I did not see any costumes not even on the astral plane. It would be easy to believe you about Disney and marvel If I could '''not read the papers''. But please don’t sit there and tell me Disney has nothing to do with marvel. Disney is the master of marvel. Do you think opening a movie with a dancing little groot is marvel’s idea, I don’t even think I ever saw that in a marvel cartoon. Do you think marvel not making an r rated movie or always making light hearted ooc colourful comedy movies is their idea? Did you think it was marvel's choice to recton SW/QS mutant background in the comics? Disney is the mastermind of marvel. I don’t doubt the higher powers at fox has some influence but I will say some. Disney influence is many. Here is the hard facts about Singer- He has already been involved with 4 x-men movies where the singerism dominated. So in reality, Apocalypse is the first movie with a major studio interference. Singer was always against costumes, Singer was always about keeping things smaller and did not like much destruction or stories that revolved around ..bad guys wants to destroy the world, singer was never really a fan of the physically comic booky villains, Singer favoured more story than cgi. Then come apocalypse and none of this is in the movie. So the facts are there and prove you wrong about singer. To show you how wrong you are , kingberg said the movie got lost. The original intention of the movie was to be smaller and about family which is quite close to the singerism but according to kingberg the film just became about bad guy that wants to destroy the world. this is the studio inference.please do read to know the facts. comicbook.com/marvel/2017/02/25/x-men-apocalypse-mistakes-simon-kinberg/ Fox probably looked at avengers and transformers and said movies that blow the world and don’t have much story in them make more so money so there...you do that singer. Studio inference has ruined more than half of the mcu movies compared to x-men. Disney is the reason for studio inference. They have to monitor all the mcu movies to make sure it is approachable to kids and this does not often suit well with the people they hire. If Disney owned MX so why can’t Disney make an r rated marvel movie? Simple question. Fox, sony and WB can do it. So why cant marvel do it and dont give the crap that is is not necessary. And why do all their movie follow the same fun action packed cgi comedy formula? it is not hate, we have known all along before Disney bought marvel that Disney is a kids franchise and since we also have kids in our family and were once kids ourselves. We like other studios that appealed to grownups and can tell adult themes stories.. You are saying Disney has nothing to do with marvel but Disney plans all their movies and gives the direction their movies needs to go. Spiderman Homecoming has been marketed as the second coming of my suit life with cody or whatever, a far cry from the darker and horror themed marketing of Spiderman 3 or the thriller themed marketing of spiderman 2004 or the coming of age romanticism of spiderman 2002 . Are you going to sit there and pretend that Disney is not the cause for the change? As a mcu fan you are obliged to say GOTG had more feels than all the x-men movies put together but as a person who likes movies that appeal to my age, x-men movies had more feels than all the mcu movies. We would have to take mcu movies seriously first to get the feels and we cant do that when they are all cgi infested comedies.. . Gotg 2 feel is lost because they dropped unfunny jokes to take away the moments. I am glad this has been one of the biggest out there criticism of the movie because it happens with every mcu movie...maybe the softballs critics are getting fed up with it. I am sure if GOTG had feels, we would have felt it.....Logan style.. All I got from gotg is that I need to buy groots for kids if I had any. MCU is the most superficial cbm series. Wonder Woman would have more feels than GOTG 2 if the critics play fair. Creative freedom is doing what you want, so Joss Whedon jumped ship to DC and MCU does not put out better sequels than their first And more importantly, X-Men is clearly better off on their own. Okay pal. Yeah right...x-force is meant to be like transformers. Clearly mcu fans have not gotten over the Thanos/Cable thing. you are actually comparing x-force to transformers when avengers are the transformers of cbms. Have you ever seen Inglorious Bastards? You know those vigilante Jews that lunched a diabolical plan to eliminate Nazis in the most sadistic way possible, That is how the x-force team operates, if logan was influenced by classic western movie (Shane), x-force should be influenced by inglorious bastards. Tell me the similarities between inglorious bastards and transformers because I can sure tell you the similarities between transformers and the mcu. No, the X-Men movies are merely pretentious. Not deep. They're so ashamed of themselves and so desperate to make people THINK they're deep...but they're not. The MCU made things better by being utterly UNASHAMED, and helping people realize "You know, there's no shame in enjoying comic books. Nothing wrong with accepting the wondrous and the wacky." Mangold is one such person ashamed of comics, someone who just doesn't get it because he's too high on himself. Legion isn't that good, not by a long shot. And if they DID have costumes in the movies, I seriously doubt that would ruin the movie for people. And MCU won't make R-Rated stuff because there's no point in making R-Rated stuff. I seriously doubt having Peter Parker go to a strip club in Spider-Man would automatically make the movie better.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 14, 2017 19:36:45 GMT
Apocalypse isn't really much of a build-up character nor much of a X-Men villian. He started out as the Magneto of the original X-Factor and then became the Sabretooth of the Summer-Grey family until they killed him off for good. And the story the film was based happened very early in his publication history as a side story of Fall of The Mutants rather than a big event. I don't see how it would be imaginative to rip-off Infinity War, especially for a villian that always paled in comparison to Thanos as he was always easily defeated by the Summers. See, you went straight for "OMG I don't want it like an MCU movie!" When I say their Infinity War I mean what all the movies had built up to. Another example is Palpatine in the Star Wars OT. They mention him in A New Hope. They show a hologram of him in Empire. They then reveal him and make him the big bad in RotJ. Build up. If they thought in advanced The Hellfire Club and Mystique* would have been agents of Apocalypse. Not Horsemen, but agents. Mystique is a shapeshifter and a very old character. She could have been around since way back then. Same goes for how they made Shaw. First Class has the same plot line as Apocalypse. The same villain structure. They could have peppered it with hints of "his" coming and such. DoFP is the same way. Instead of making it solely about them changing the future from being taken over by the sentinels. Make it about taking out the guy behind the guy. Make it that Mystique* willingly helped Trask because Apocalypse had her do it. Drop hints and history of this guy, but don't reveal who he is. Then in the 3rd movie you have all the Apocalypse stuff. You reveal him and everything about him (since you know they'll kill him off). This is the movie you go all out on. The big event movie. The trilogy ender. But, nah, let's try to fit it all in one movie. *These are things that people was hoping for. There were all kinds of fan art and theories of Mystique working for Apocalypse in the 3rd movie because that is Mystique's character. That isn't Mystique's character, LMAO. She fought against Apocalypse when she became a X-Men in Blood of Apocalypse. Sounds like those theories were by guys who only watched the animated series.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 14, 2017 19:52:46 GMT
See, you went straight for "OMG I don't want it like an MCU movie!" When I say their Infinity War I mean what all the movies had built up to. Another example is Palpatine in the Star Wars OT. They mention him in A New Hope. They show a hologram of him in Empire. They then reveal him and make him the big bad in RotJ. Build up. If they thought in advanced The Hellfire Club and Mystique* would have been agents of Apocalypse. Not Horsemen, but agents. Mystique is a shapeshifter and a very old character. She could have been around since way back then. Same goes for how they made Shaw. First Class has the same plot line as Apocalypse. The same villain structure. They could have peppered it with hints of "his" coming and such. DoFP is the same way. Instead of making it solely about them changing the future from being taken over by the sentinels. Make it about taking out the guy behind the guy. Make it that Mystique* willingly helped Trask because Apocalypse had her do it. Drop hints and history of this guy, but don't reveal who he is. Then in the 3rd movie you have all the Apocalypse stuff. You reveal him and everything about him (since you know they'll kill him off). This is the movie you go all out on. The big event movie. The trilogy ender. But, nah, let's try to fit it all in one movie. *These are things that people was hoping for. There were all kinds of fan art and theories of Mystique working for Apocalypse in the 3rd movie because that is Mystique's character. That isn't Mystique's character, LMAO. She fought against Apocalypse when she became a X-Men in Blood of Apocalypse. Sounds like those theories were by guys who only watched the animated series. Her character is to manipulate and betray people. Because she fought against Apocalypse in a story means nothing. She fought against and sided with the same people all over the Marvel Universe. A character is who a character is.
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Post by claudius on May 15, 2017 11:32:53 GMT
"Apocalypse isn't really much of a build-up character nor much of a X-Men villian. He started out as the Magneto of the original X-Factor and then became the Sabretooth of the Summer-Grey family until they killed him off for good. And the story the film was based happened very early in his publication history as a side story of Fall of The Mutants rather than a big event." Actually, he was more of an original replacement for the originally planned villain for X-FACTOR#6, DAREDEVIL baddie The Owl. And the later X-FACTOR story during the Fall of the Mutants was a big event for that title, properly introducing Pocky's character & returning Warren to the series.
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Post by Agent of Chaos on May 15, 2017 13:10:21 GMT
"Apocalypse isn't really much of a build-up character nor much of a X-Men villian. He started out as the Magneto of the original X-Factor and then became the Sabretooth of the Summer-Grey family until they killed him off for good. And the story the film was based happened very early in his publication history as a side story of Fall of The Mutants rather than a big event." Actually, he was more of an original replacement for the originally planned villain for X-FACTOR#6, DAREDEVIL baddie The Owl. And the later X-FACTOR story during the Fall of the Mutants was a big event for that title, properly introducing Pocky's character & returning Warren to the series. Apocalypse wasn't "the" villian of Fall of The Mutants. It was three separate storylines that tied together thematically.
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