chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 26, 2017 10:37:18 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39709322So the FA persist with this nonsense. I wonder if they will charge Pulis for calling a male commentator Sweetie, after the West Brom v Liverpool game? Still, speaking with reporters will become politically incorrect soon.
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 26, 2017 12:26:02 GMT
Well done to the FA, unfortunately for some we've moved on from the 1970s. You can't riot in stadiums any more, you can't throw bananas at black players any more and you can't "joke" that you're going to slap women around any more. You call that political correctness gone mad, I call it progress.
Hopefully a ban at least as long as Joey Barton's.
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Post by Carl LaFong on Apr 26, 2017 12:36:36 GMT
Hopefully a ban at least as long as Joey Barton's.  |
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 26, 2017 12:49:12 GMT
Well done to the FA, unfortunately for some we've moved on from the 1970s. You can't riot in stadiums any more, you can't throw bananas at black players any more and you can't "joke" that you're going to slap women around any more. You call that political correctness gone mad, I call it progress. Hopefully a ban at least as long as Joey Barton's. Making things up again, I see! Where did I see that PC gone mad constituted it being ok to riot in stadiums, throw bananas at black players? Oh that's right, I never. What constitutes PC gone mad is when a flippant, albeit stupid remark, is made, an apology given and the "victim" accepts the apology, yet certain bodies, the FA in this case, see fit to deal with out of proportion. As I have stated before on here though, you are anything but objective when it comes to Moyes. |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 26, 2017 13:06:32 GMT
Well done to the FA, unfortunately for some we've moved on from the 1970s. You can't riot in stadiums any more, you can't throw bananas at black players any more and you can't "joke" that you're going to slap women around any more. You call that political correctness gone mad, I call it progress. Hopefully a ban at least as long as Joey Barton's. Making things up again, I see! Where did I see that PC gone mad constituted it being ok to riot in stadiums, throw bananas at black players? Oh that's right, I never. What constitutes PC gone mad is when a flippant, albeit stupid remark, is made, an apology given and the "victim" accepts the apology, yet certain bodies, the FA in this case, see fit to deal with out of proportion. As I have stated before on here though, you are anything but objective when it comes to Moyes. What else can the victim say? How do you think her career would go if she went after a manager like Moyes. He has a huge network in English football, he's friendly enough with journalists to take them out to dinner and give them easter eggs. His network is such that he was able to convince people that going ten years without getting relegated at Everton made him a good manager. Even after he proved beyond any serious doubt that he was total shit with the great steps he took towards destroying England's dominant team there were gushing articles about how he was a good manager man who been treated disgracefully. He went to Real Sociedad and was sacked from there for being shit, now he's rooted to the bottom of the Premier League having taken over a club who've been in the Premier League since 2007, he's threatening to slap women around, and even now nobody in the media admits that he is a terrible manager and person. If the victim had tried to fight Moyes you know and I know that her career would have been finished, because there are still too many dinosaurs like you in the game who see progress as a bad thing. I agree, I'm probably not objective on Moyes, I'm probably a bit too kind to him because he used to manage my club. I'll have to be more fair in future. |
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Post by Carl LaFong on Apr 26, 2017 13:09:15 GMT
"I agree, I'm probably not objective on Moyes, I'm probably a bit too kind to him because he used to manage my club. I'll have to be more fair in future."  |
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 26, 2017 13:43:24 GMT
Making things up again, I see! Where did I see that PC gone mad constituted it being ok to riot in stadiums, throw bananas at black players? Oh that's right, I never. What constitutes PC gone mad is when a flippant, albeit stupid remark, is made, an apology given and the "victim" accepts the apology, yet certain bodies, the FA in this case, see fit to deal with out of proportion. As I have stated before on here though, you are anything but objective when it comes to Moyes. What else can the victim say? How do you think her career would go if she went after a manager like Moyes. He has a huge network in English football, he's friendly enough with journalists to take them out to dinner and give them easter eggs. His network is such that he was able to convince people that going ten years without getting relegated at Everton made him a good manager. Even after he proved beyond any serious doubt that he was total shit with the great steps he took towards destroying England's dominant team there were gushing articles about how he was a good manager man who been treated disgracefully. He went to Real Sociedad and was sacked from there for being shit, now he's rooted to the bottom of the Premier League having taken over a club who've been in the Premier League since 2007, he's threatening to slap women around, and even now nobody in the media admits that he is a terrible manager and person. If the victim had tried to fight Moyes you know and I know that her career would have been finished, because there are still too many dinosaurs like you in the game who see progress as a bad thing. I agree, I'm probably not objective on Moyes, I'm probably a bit too kind to him because he used to manage my club. I'll have to be more fair in future. Aww gee thanks. I can always rely on you for comedy old, or platinum in this case.  |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 26, 2017 14:56:00 GMT
What else can the victim say? How do you think her career would go if she went after a manager like Moyes. He has a huge network in English football, he's friendly enough with journalists to take them out to dinner and give them easter eggs. His network is such that he was able to convince people that going ten years without getting relegated at Everton made him a good manager. Even after he proved beyond any serious doubt that he was total shit with the great steps he took towards destroying England's dominant team there were gushing articles about how he was a good manager man who been treated disgracefully. He went to Real Sociedad and was sacked from there for being shit, now he's rooted to the bottom of the Premier League having taken over a club who've been in the Premier League since 2007, he's threatening to slap women around, and even now nobody in the media admits that he is a terrible manager and person. If the victim had tried to fight Moyes you know and I know that her career would have been finished, because there are still too many dinosaurs like you in the game who see progress as a bad thing. I agree, I'm probably not objective on Moyes, I'm probably a bit too kind to him because he used to manage my club. I'll have to be more fair in future. Aww gee thanks. I can always rely on you for comedy old, or platinum in this case. Serious question - what do you think would have happened to Moyes' victim if she had refused to accept his apology and reported him? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 15:23:03 GMT
Aww gee thanks. I can always rely on you for comedy old, or platinum in this case. Serious question - what do you think would have happened to Moyes' victim if she had refused to accept his apology and reported him? Let's cut to the chase, what kind of prison sentence would you like to see handed to Moyes? |
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 26, 2017 15:29:32 GMT
Aww gee thanks. I can always rely on you for comedy old, or platinum in this case. Serious question - what do you think would have happened to Moyes' victim if she had refused to accept his apology and reported him? I would guess that she would have still been employed as a reporter. A fairer hand might have been showed by the FA towards Eva Carneiro after the discrimination from Jose and his dinosaur attitude in calling her "daughter of a whore". But hey that's just good old Jose!! |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 26, 2017 15:46:29 GMT
Serious question - what do you think would have happened to Moyes' victim if she had refused to accept his apology and reported him? Let's cut to the chase, what kind of prison sentence would you like to see handed to Moyes? Community Service scrubbing toilets. Saying that, he'd probably shit all over himself, blame the judge and say nobody else could have done any better. Serious question - what do you think would have happened to Moyes' victim if she had refused to accept his apology and reported him? I would guess that she would have still been employed as a reporter. A fairer hand might have been showed by the FA towards Eva Carneiro after the discrimination from Jose and his dinosaur attitude in calling her "daughter of a whore". But hey that's just good old Jose!! She'd still be employed, sure, but do you think she'd get as good access to managers as she got beforehand? Do you think they'd be as open with her or would they be running all their words past media officers? Surely you can see how publicly coming out against someone with a big network coukd be career limiting for a sports journalist? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 17:47:46 GMT
She laughed, he laughed, nobody reported anyone, everyone moved on.
HANG THE BASTARD!!!
PROGRESS!!
PROGRESS!!
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 26, 2017 18:09:10 GMT
Let's cut to the chase, what kind of prison sentence would you like to see handed to Moyes? Community Service scrubbing toilets. Saying that, he'd probably shit all over himself, blame the judge and say nobody else could have done any better. I would guess that she would have still been employed as a reporter. A fairer hand might have been showed by the FA towards Eva Carneiro after the discrimination from Jose and his dinosaur attitude in calling her "daughter of a whore". But hey that's just good old Jose!! She'd still be employed, sure, but do you think she'd get as good access to managers as she got beforehand? Do you think they'd be as open with her or would they be running all their words past media officers? Surely you can see how publicly coming out against someone with a big network coukd be career limiting for a sports journalist? So nothing about Jose, then? |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 26, 2017 18:36:22 GMT
Community Service scrubbing toilets. Saying that, he'd probably shit all over himself, blame the judge and say nobody else could have done any better. She'd still be employed, sure, but do you think she'd get as good access to managers as she got beforehand? Do you think they'd be as open with her or would they be running all their words past media officers? Surely you can see how publicly coming out against someone with a big network coukd be career limiting for a sports journalist? So nothing about Jose, then? It's completely irrelevant. If a footballer goes out, gets wasted, jumps in his car and kills someone are Chelsea fans forbidden from commenting on it because Marcos Alonso got away with it? Preposterous. The FA's expert analysis found that the comments weren't even directed towards her. There is no proof that he even said it - Mourinho claims he said "Filho de puta" i.e. son of a bitch/whore which he uses as a general exclamation. It's also notable that Carneiro dropped the case. I'm uncomfortable with managers abusing medical staff - the players' health should take priority - but I've seen nothing that convinces me there was any sexism there. Do you agree that reporting it could have damaged her career? |
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chasallnut
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 27, 2017 8:54:52 GMT
So nothing about Jose, then? It's completely irrelevant. If a footballer goes out, gets wasted, jumps in his car and kills someone are Chelsea fans forbidden from commenting on it because Marcos Alonso got away with it? Preposterous. The FA's expert analysis found that the comments weren't even directed towards her. There is no proof that he even said it - Mourinho claims he said "Filho de puta" i.e. son of a bitch/whore which he uses as a general exclamation. It's also notable that Carneiro dropped the case. I'm uncomfortable with managers abusing medical staff - the players' health should take priority - but I've seen nothing that convinces me there was any sexism there. Do you agree that reporting it could have damaged her career? Got you, so some unfollowed up account of Moyes assaulting someone in a Bolton wine bar is fine for you to use as evidence of a history of violence, but not against Jose as it doesn't fit your agenda. So going back to being objective!! And no I don't think it would have damaged her career, for the very reason that sexism could have been cried again. |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 27, 2017 10:24:57 GMT
It's completely irrelevant. If a footballer goes out, gets wasted, jumps in his car and kills someone are Chelsea fans forbidden from commenting on it because Marcos Alonso got away with it? Preposterous. The FA's expert analysis found that the comments weren't even directed towards her. There is no proof that he even said it - Mourinho claims he said "Filho de puta" i.e. son of a bitch/whore which he uses as a general exclamation. It's also notable that Carneiro dropped the case. I'm uncomfortable with managers abusing medical staff - the players' health should take priority - but I've seen nothing that convinces me there was any sexism there. Do you agree that reporting it could have damaged her career? Got you, so some unfollowed up account of Moyes assaulting someone in a Bolton wine bar is fine for you to use as evidence of a history of violence, but not against Jose as it doesn't fit your agenda. So going back to being objective!! And no I don't think it would have damaged her career, for the very reason that sexism could have been cried again. Well yeah, it's easy to misunderstand or mishear filho/filha in a loud crowd situation. It's harder to misunderstand fists, in order for the Moyes thing to be false you have to show someone is lying. What evidence is there that the people in the bar - in Clithero by the way, not Bolton - were lying? It doesn't work that way. You need to have good relationships with clubs and managers to do well in football journalism, you have no automatic entitlement to that and proving discrimination would be almost impossible. |
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 27, 2017 11:01:11 GMT
Got you, so some unfollowed up account of Moyes assaulting someone in a Bolton wine bar is fine for you to use as evidence of a history of violence, but not against Jose as it doesn't fit your agenda. So going back to being objective!! And no I don't think it would have damaged her career, for the very reason that sexism could have been cried again. Well yeah, it's easy to misunderstand or mishear filho/filha in a loud crowd situation. It's harder to misunderstand fists, in order for the Moyes thing to be false you have to show someone is lying. What evidence is there that the people in the bar - in Clithero by the way, not Bolton - were lying? It doesn't work that way. You need to have good relationships with clubs and managers to do well in football journalism, you have no automatic entitlement to that and proving discrimination would be almost impossible. Hahaha, because a settlement in excess of 1.2 million was for nothing. Now, Moyes in Clitheroe (spelled with an e in the end by the way):-
Moyes, who was sacked by United in April, was investigated after 23-year-old builder Josh Gillibrand claimed to have been attacked at a wine bar in the town of Clitheroe in northwest England on May 21.
The 51-year-old Scot was subsequently interviewed by police, who said at the time that there were "a number of differing accounts" about what had happened.
"A thorough investigation has been carried out and everyone identified as having been involved in this incident or having witnessed it have provided accounts to the police," the police spokesman added.
"All these accounts were given voluntarily, it has not been necessary to arrest any person. These accounts have been considered and it has been decided that this is the most appropriate course of action."
No charges and differing accounts. Seems one has been cleared and one hasn't, guess which one? And before we get the "It wasn't sexism that the club settled on" Well no it wasn't, it was constructive dismissal as she was dropped by Jose because she didn't go along with his cheating tactics and she followed the due diligence towards a player.
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 27, 2017 15:03:38 GMT
Well yeah, it's easy to misunderstand or mishear filho/filha in a loud crowd situation. It's harder to misunderstand fists, in order for the Moyes thing to be false you have to show someone is lying. What evidence is there that the people in the bar - in Clithero by the way, not Bolton - were lying? It doesn't work that way. You need to have good relationships with clubs and managers to do well in football journalism, you have no automatic entitlement to that and proving discrimination would be almost impossible. Hahaha, because a settlement in excess of 1.2 million was for nothing. Now, Moyes in Clitheroe (spelled with an e in the end by the way):-
Moyes, who was sacked by United in April, was investigated after 23-year-old builder Josh Gillibrand claimed to have been attacked at a wine bar in the town of Clitheroe in northwest England on May 21.
The 51-year-old Scot was subsequently interviewed by police, who said at the time that there were "a number of differing accounts" about what had happened.
"A thorough investigation has been carried out and everyone identified as having been involved in this incident or having witnessed it have provided accounts to the police," the police spokesman added.
"All these accounts were given voluntarily, it has not been necessary to arrest any person. These accounts have been considered and it has been decided that this is the most appropriate course of action."
No charges and differing accounts. Seems one has been cleared and one hasn't, guess which one? And before we get the "It wasn't sexism that the club settled on" Well no it wasn't, it was constructive dismissal as she was dropped by Jose because she didn't go along with his cheating tactics and she followed the due diligence towards a player.
It wasn't for nothing - I think both he and Chelsea treated her badly - but it wasn't for sexism. Are you suggesting all those people are making it up? It seems likely to me that the differing accounts come from the fact they were all under the influence and may not have had the best view of the situation. Something obviously kicked off there though - I've seen a lot of fights happen in bars, while I probably couldn't give an accurate account of the events if you asked me the next day if someone I recognise had been involved in the fight there's no way I'd get that wrong. If a pretty big man who has been accused of beating people up in the past when pissed off over losing his job "jokingly" threatens to slap a woman for asking him about losing his job the woman has a choice - laugh, say nothing souring her relationship with the manager or kick up a fuss which will be damaging to her career. Unsurprisingly she chose the former. It doesn't make it acceptable. |
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Post by chasallnut on Apr 27, 2017 15:14:33 GMT
Hahaha, because a settlement in excess of 1.2 million was for nothing. Now, Moyes in Clitheroe (spelled with an e in the end by the way):-
Moyes, who was sacked by United in April, was investigated after 23-year-old builder Josh Gillibrand claimed to have been attacked at a wine bar in the town of Clitheroe in northwest England on May 21.
The 51-year-old Scot was subsequently interviewed by police, who said at the time that there were "a number of differing accounts" about what had happened.
"A thorough investigation has been carried out and everyone identified as having been involved in this incident or having witnessed it have provided accounts to the police," the police spokesman added.
"All these accounts were given voluntarily, it has not been necessary to arrest any person. These accounts have been considered and it has been decided that this is the most appropriate course of action."
No charges and differing accounts. Seems one has been cleared and one hasn't, guess which one? And before we get the "It wasn't sexism that the club settled on" Well no it wasn't, it was constructive dismissal as she was dropped by Jose because she didn't go along with his cheating tactics and she followed the due diligence towards a player.
It wasn't for nothing - I think both he and Chelsea treated her badly - but it wasn't for sexism. Are you suggesting all those people are making it up? It seems likely to me that the differing accounts come from the fact they were all under the influence and may not have had the best view of the situation. Something obviously kicked off there though - I've seen a lot of fights happen in bars, while I probably couldn't give an accurate account of the events if you asked me the next day if someone I recognise had been involved in the fight there's no way I'd get that wrong. If a pretty big man who has been accused of beating people up in the past when pissed off over losing his job "jokingly" threatens to slap a woman for asking him about losing his job the woman has a choice - laugh, say nothing souring her relationship with the manager or kick up a fuss which will be damaging to her career. Unsurprisingly she chose the former. It doesn't make it acceptable. No, and your postulating doesn't make anything you have presented factual. In fact you seem to fly into the face of the evidence. But as I have repeated, this is Moyes, the man you hated from the day he took the reigns at OT, so your objectivity, or lack thereof is noted. |
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Post by Excellent Bulletproof Vest on Apr 27, 2017 15:44:51 GMT
It wasn't for nothing - I think both he and Chelsea treated her badly - but it wasn't for sexism. Are you suggesting all those people are making it up? It seems likely to me that the differing accounts come from the fact they were all under the influence and may not have had the best view of the situation. Something obviously kicked off there though - I've seen a lot of fights happen in bars, while I probably couldn't give an accurate account of the events if you asked me the next day if someone I recognise had been involved in the fight there's no way I'd get that wrong. If a pretty big man who has been accused of beating people up in the past when pissed off over losing his job "jokingly" threatens to slap a woman for asking him about losing his job the woman has a choice - laugh, say nothing souring her relationship with the manager or kick up a fuss which will be damaging to her career. Unsurprisingly she chose the former. It doesn't make it acceptable. No, and your postulating doesn't make anything you have presented factual. In fact you seem to fly into the face of the evidence. But as I have repeated, this is Moyes, the man you hated from the day he took the reigns at OT, so your objectivity, or lack thereof is noted. What evidence contradicts what I've said in this thread? Moyes was noted by eyewitnesses as getting in a fight in a bar - fact Multiple people saw him involved in a fight, although their accounts differed - fact This incident occurred shortly after he'd lost his job at United - fact The journalist asked Moyes about the possibility of losing his job - fact Moyes said that the journalist was being naughty and may get a slap if she asked questions like that again - fact Admittedly the idea that reporting him or not laughing would have been detrimental to her career is speculation on my part, but the idea that she might have believed it was in her best interests not to make a fuss is hardly far fetched. I've already admitted I'm not objective when it comes to Moyes, I don't see what relevance it has though. My arguments should stand or fall on their own strengths, not the reputation of the man who is making them. It might help the discussion if you imagine it's someone else speaking about this issue so you don't get bogged down in personal discussions. |
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