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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 13:45:33 GMT
I haven't asked him. It's just the way it is. So the rule is to be obeyed even when you don't know from whence it comes? How do you know it exists? Because Fr Pat spoke about it during an online Mass just this week. Vatican rules are that to get grace from online Mass, it has to be a live Mass. It's not a problem for Catholics... You can find online Mass being celebrated somewhere in the world any moment of every day |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 28, 2020 13:49:47 GMT
So the rule is to be obeyed even when you don't know from whence it comes? How do you know it exists? Because Fr Pat spoke about it during an online Mass just this week. Vatican rules are that to get grace from online Mass, it has to be a live Mass. But you just said that you didn't know and haven't asked the Pope, who sets the rules?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 13:51:03 GMT
Because Fr Pat spoke about it during an online Mass just this week. Vatican rules are that to get grace from online Mass, it has to be a live Mass. But you just said that you didn't know and haven't asked the Pope who sets the rules? Well I don't know where and when the Holy Father brought it in 🤷♀️ Sometime in the last month at best guess. It doesn't bother me, it's not an issue. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 28, 2020 13:55:23 GMT
But you just said that you didn't know and haven't asked the Pope who sets the rules? Well I don't know where and when the Holy Father brought it in 🤷♀️ Sometime in the last month at best guess. It doesn't bother me, it's not an issue. So up until recently it was OK and the rules have just changed? I would have thought with the current crisis such rules would be better relaxed. The obvious question here is why the words of the mass supposedly carry value when live only but the words of Jesus, say, recorded long since in a book are commonly given value no matter how transmitted to the faithful.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 14:10:38 GMT
Well I don't know where and when the Holy Father brought it in 🤷♀️ Sometime in the last month at best guess. It doesn't bother me, it's not an issue. So up until recently it was OK and the rules have just changed? I would have thought with the current crisis such rules would be better relaxed. The obvious question here is why the words of the mass supposedly carry value when live only when the words of Jesus, say, recorded long since in a book are given value no matter how transmitted. They have been relaxed. Normally you have to physically go to Mass... For now you get spiritual communion and grace from celebrating online Mass. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 28, 2020 14:15:17 GMT
So up until recently it was OK and the rules have just changed? I would have thought with the current crisis such rules would be better relaxed. The obvious question here is why the words of the Mass supposedly carry value when live only when the words of Jesus, say, recorded long since in a book are given value no matter how transmitted. They have been relaxed. Normally you have to physically go to Mass... For now you get spiritual communion and grace from celebrating online Mass. But you said that the rule that to get grace from online Mass, it has to be a live Mass was just brought in, even if you are not sure it was actually from the Pope. Does this mean that online Mass didn't count at all before then? Otherwise it rather looks like a tightening of the rules. Why would there be a move to exclude more when more will be relying on the church for help?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 14:19:59 GMT
They have been relaxed. Normally you have to physically go to Mass... For now you get spiritual communion and grace from celebrating online Mass. But you said that the rule that to get grace from online Mass, it has to be a live Mass was just brought in, even if you are not sure it was actually from the Pope. Does this mean that online Mass didn't count at all before then? Otherwise it rather looks like a tightening of the rules. Why would there be a move to exclude more when more will be relying on the church for help? Yes, miscommunication here. Online Mass didn't confer grace before now. Under the pandemic, it now does. Hope that clarifies 👍 |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 28, 2020 14:29:31 GMT
But you said that the rule that to get grace from online Mass, it has to be a live Mass was just brought in, even if you are not sure it was actually from the Pope. Does this mean that online Mass didn't count at all before then? Otherwise it rather looks like a tightening of the rules. Why would there be a move to exclude more when more will be relying on the church for help? Yes, miscommunication here. Online Mass didn't confer grace before now. Under the pandemic, it now does. Hope that clarifies 👍 2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. ... Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. I don't see any restriction here, implied or explicit, on when one can expect grace, i.e. whether live or through transmission. Why would that be? Is not the inability to see a Mass live a 'weakness'?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 14:38:03 GMT
Yes, miscommunication here. Online Mass didn't confer grace before now. Under the pandemic, it now does. Hope that clarifies 👍 2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. ... Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. I don't see any restriction here, implied or explicit, on when one can expect grace, i.e. whether live or through transmission. Why would that be? Is not the inability to see a Mass live a 'weakness'? I'm not an evangelical. I'm Catholic. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 28, 2020 14:41:13 GMT
2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. ... Therefore it says, "God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. I don't see any restriction here, implied or explicit, on when one can expect grace, i.e. whether live or through transmission. Why would that be? Is not the inability to see a Mass live a 'weakness'? I'm not an evangelical. I'm Catholic. One that can't comment on Bible verse?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 14:45:52 GMT
I'm not an evangelical. I'm Catholic. One that can't comment on Bible verse? No need to comment... That is how Mother Church works. When people quote scripture at you, they are usually trying to lead you in to a heffalump trap, the same as the Pharisees tried to with Jesus. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 15:02:17 GMT
One that can't comment on Bible verse? No need to comment... That is how Mother Church works. When people quote scripture at you, they are usually trying to lead you in to a heffalump trap, the same as the Pharisees tried to with Jesus. Heffalump trap! I absolutely know what a Heffalump and a Woozle are, but I never heard that phrase before and had to look it up to see if it was in common usage. I love that! There's an old story from Uncle Remus that I find so apropos referencing when it comes to certain situations, but there are racial connotations that would be focused on that would just deflect the discussion far away from the point. Heffalump trap may not exactly give the visual that Brer Rabbit's little encounter did, but it will work! Thanks!!
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 28, 2020 15:03:15 GMT
One that can't comment on Bible verse? No need to comment... That is how Mother Church works. When people quote scripture at you, they are usually trying to lead you in to a heffalump trap, the same as the Pharisees tried to with Jesus. It must be hard not being able to trust those who usually quote scripture at you. Especially if you are unwilling to offer a view of biblical verse when asked.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 15:08:18 GMT
No need to comment... That is how Mother Church works. When people quote scripture at you, they are usually trying to lead you in to a heffalump trap, the same as the Pharisees tried to with Jesus. It must be hard not being able to trust those who usually quote scripture at you. Especially if you are unwilling to offer a view of biblical verse when asked. Priests don't quote scripture at us, we have readings at Mass. I meet with my priest after Tuesday evening Mass every week (in non-plague times)... We discuss next Sunday's Gospel reading, and interpretations of it. As well as discussing church business and theological topics. I do engage in debate on Gospel scripture every week. I don't feel the need to engage in a debate on scripture regarding practical alternative arrangements made by the Holy See in a time of pandemic. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 28, 2020 15:12:45 GMT
It must be hard not being able to trust those who usually quote scripture at you. Especially if you are unwilling to offer a view of biblical verse when asked. Priests don't quote scripture at us, we have readings at Mass. I meet with my priest after Tuesday evening Mass every week (in non-plague times)... We discuss next Sunday's Gospel reading, and interpretations of it. As well as discussing church business and theological topics. I do engage in debate on Gospel scripture every week. Priests don't quote scripture? Really? Are you sure about this? How can you discuss, debate or read the gospel without quoting it?
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Post by mslo79 on Mar 28, 2020 18:19:02 GMT
Keep in mind the usual still applies, which in short is... 'no attachment to sin' otherwise that plenary indulgence turns into partial indulgence.
so in other words... if you got a attachment towards even a small sin, you get no plenary indulgence and changes to a partial. basically plenary indulgence is difficult to get.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 29, 2020 0:33:55 GMT
Keep in mind the usual still applies, which in short is... 'no attachment to sin' otherwise that plenary indulgence turns into partial indulgence. so in other words... if you got a attachment towards even a small sin, you get no plenary indulgence and changes to a partial. basically plenary indulgence is difficult to get. That's OK, I don't open attachments unless I know who sent them.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Mar 31, 2020 15:40:50 GMT
Cardinal O'Malley of Boston has temporarily waived the requirement that Catholics refrain from eating meat on Fridays during Lent. Did God give him that authority? Where is it written that Catholics must refrain from eating meat on Fridays during Lent?
Energizer Bunny has been arrested; charged with battery
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 15:42:51 GMT
Cardinal O'Malley of Boston has temporarily waived the requirement that Catholics refrain from eating meat on Fridays during Lent. Did God give him that authority? Where is it written that Catholics must refrain from eating meat on Fridays during Lent? The best Catholic lads and lassies refrain from eating animals all day every day 👍 
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