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Post by Aj_June on Mar 29, 2020 0:46:37 GMT
I am on an online group on which I found people blaming china for bringing Coronavirus to countries outside of China. I personally do not attribute blame to China for various reasons. One reason is that there is no reason to believe anyone intentionally brought the virus. Another is that just because of a few people why would I blame the whole country or its citizens. I took a lot of heat on that group for apparently defending China when all I was saying was that these unfortunate things happen. The better thing to do is to cooperate and try to get rid of the problem than to blame a nation or its citizens. Also, there is a learning from China. They flattened their curve with aggressive lock-down and improving their pollution level. China's case is a hope for all countries who want to get rid of this problem which is damaging our livelihood, economy and day to day lives.
Update - Based on updated information, I realize my mistake in rushing to China's defense. As always, I am willing to own up to my mistakes. It seems to me that Chinese government may have had a bigger role in silencing the issue and thus not giving the world enough info to act more quickly. I will still hold back from saying how much they are responsible but I accept they are responsible for playing part in loss of human lives around the world.
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Mar 29, 2020 1:27:35 GMT
I am on an online group on which I found people blaming china for bringing Coronavirus to countries outside of China. I personally do not attribute blame to China for various reasons. One reason is that there is no reason to believe anyone intentionally brought the virus. Another is that just because of a few people why would I blame the whole country or its citizens. I took a lot of heat on that group for apparently defending China when all I was saying was that these unfortunate things happen. The better thing to do is to cooperate and try to get rid of the problem than to blame a nation or its citizens. Also, there is a learning from China. They flattened their curve with aggressive lock-down and improving their pollution level. China's case is a hope for all countries who want to get rid of this problem which is damaging our livelihood, economy and day to day lives. When blaming China, people are fairly justified in blaming the government that suppressed information about how serious it was, and allowed it to be spread around the world. They disappeared people trying to shine light on the problem in the early stages, trying to protect their image. To suggest the subjugated Chinese people themselves to blame is silly, but the CCP rightly should be taking lot of blame. They were able to slow it down with an ultra aggressive lockdown that wouldn't be accepted outside of communist nations like China. Life is cheap there.
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 29, 2020 1:47:55 GMT
I am on an online group on which I found people blaming china for bringing Coronavirus to countries outside of China. I personally do not attribute blame to China for various reasons. One reason is that there is no reason to believe anyone intentionally brought the virus. Another is that just because of a few people why would I blame the whole country or its citizens. I took a lot of heat on that group for apparently defending China when all I was saying was that these unfortunate things happen. The better thing to do is to cooperate and try to get rid of the problem than to blame a nation or its citizens. Also, there is a learning from China. They flattened their curve with aggressive lock-down and improving their pollution level. China's case is a hope for all countries who want to get rid of this problem which is damaging our livelihood, economy and day to day lives. When blaming China, people are fairly justified in blaming the government that suppressed information about how serious it was, and allowed it to be spread around the world. They disappeared people trying to shine light on the problem in the early stages, trying to protect their image. To suggest the subjugated Chinese people themselves to blame is silly, but the CCP rightly should be taking lot of blame. They were able to slow it down with an ultra aggressive lockdown that wouldn't be accepted outside of communist nations like China. Life is cheap there. I agree with the part that their government didn't show transparency and put others at risk by not sharing info. I think that they will gain more respect at global level if they start making reforms in how they carry on their interaction with the world. That said people that blame china because the virus originated in China because of lifestyle of Chinese are a bit unjustified.
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Post by Admin on Mar 29, 2020 2:11:57 GMT
When blaming China, people are fairly justified in blaming the government that suppressed information about how serious it was, and allowed it to be spread around the world. They disappeared people trying to shine light on the problem in the early stages, trying to protect their image. To suggest the subjugated Chinese people themselves to blame is silly, but the CCP rightly should be taking lot of blame. They were able to slow it down with an ultra aggressive lockdown that wouldn't be accepted outside of communist nations like China. Life is cheap there. I agree with the part that their government didn't show transparency and put others at risk by not sharing info. I think that they will gain more respect at global level if they start making reforms in how they carry on their interaction with the world. That said people that blame china because the virus originated in China because of lifestyle of Chinese are a bit unjustified. There is nothing unjustified in blaming a government who approves "anything goes" policies for those wet markets. Watch: youtu.be/TPpoJGYlW54
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 29, 2020 3:02:45 GMT
I agree with the part that their government didn't show transparency and put others at risk by not sharing info. I think that they will gain more respect at global level if they start making reforms in how they carry on their interaction with the world. That said people that blame china because the virus originated in China because of lifestyle of Chinese are a bit unjustified. There is nothing unjustified in blaming a government who approves "anything goes" policies for those wet markets. Watch: youtu.be/TPpoJGYlW54 I wonder if it would be justified for vegetarian people to non-vegetarians for diseases like swine flu, bird flu, Corona etc. What we eat is mostly based on subjective ethics of any culture.
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Post by Admin on Mar 29, 2020 3:05:47 GMT
There is nothing unjustified in blaming a government who approves "anything goes" policies for those wet markets. Watch: youtu.be/TPpoJGYlW54I wonder if it would be justified for vegetarian people to non-vegetarians for diseases like swine flu, bird flu, Corona etc. What we eat is mostly based on subjective ethics of any culture. I don't blame the ones who eat it as much as I blame the ones who sell it.
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puvo
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Post by puvo on Mar 29, 2020 10:08:31 GMT
When blaming China, people are fairly justified in blaming the government that suppressed information about how serious it was, and allowed it to be spread around the world. They disappeared people trying to shine light on the problem in the early stages, trying to protect their image. To suggest the subjugated Chinese people themselves to blame is silly, but the CCP rightly should be taking lot of blame. They were able to slow it down with an ultra aggressive lockdown that wouldn't be accepted outside of communist nations like China. Life is cheap there. I agree with the part that their government didn't show transparency and put others at risk by not sharing info. I think that they will gain more respect at global level if they start making reforms in how they carry on their interaction with the world. That said people that blame china because the virus originated in China because of lifestyle of Chinese are a bit unjustified. Well, that remains to be seen. If eating exotic animals turns out to be how some of these diseases are transferring, then the lifestyle is part of it.
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Post by thefleetsin on Mar 29, 2020 15:30:37 GMT
Well, when you have a government that spends the majority of its time manipulating its people into believing 'the sky is green just because we say so' then suppressing information is a piece of cake.
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Post by thefleetsin on Mar 29, 2020 15:48:29 GMT
like a chinese diplomat at a international arms produce market
so
we would have attended the one hundred and thirteenth annual
international
i'll blow you up before you even knows what hits you
arms and munitions
wholesale produce market.
but
for the glaring fact
that
no one has a leg to stand on any more
all because
china became some viruses whore
letting it
meander out its backdoor
sort of making-
all those millions of hours of soldering tubes together
for supposed
flaring propped up modern day penis's-
look rather silly
in the grand scheme of things.
but
history has always been a swing
no ones had the balls to
jump from.
as if
we had the market cornered on
kingdoms to come.
sjw 03/29/2020 inspired at this very moment in time by the plastic suits hanging just inside the doorways.
from the 'blitzkrieg series' of poems
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Post by captainbryce on Mar 29, 2020 18:15:44 GMT
There is nothing unjustified in blaming a government who approves "anything goes" policies for those wet markets. Watch: youtu.be/TPpoJGYlW54I wonder if it would be justified for vegetarian people to non-vegetarians for diseases like swine flu, bird flu, Corona etc. What we eat is mostly based on subjective ethics of any culture. The ethics of eating meat is not relevant. What’s relevant is the safety of eating meats that have not been tested for diseases. We have a Food & Drug Administration in the US for a reason. It exists to certify that what is being sold as food is safe to eat. They don’t have that in China, which is how you get wet markets that can serve anything as “meat” and cause all kinds of health and safety concerns. It’s an unsafe practice which combined with the government’s failures to address it are responsible for causing this pandemic in the first place.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Mar 29, 2020 21:50:44 GMT
Trump has a track record of not accepting any responsibility for anything. The easiest way to divert blame is to place it on someone else. This is especially important in an election year.
So regardless of how well or badly they handle the coronavirus outbreak in the US, he wants to keep reminding everyone that all the bad things that are associated with it (i.e. death, job losses, economic downturn, etc) aren't his fault. They're all China's fault.
And it's more important to him that he keeps trying to get that message across than actually dealing with the situation.
The next US election will be very interesting. Part of me half expects the coronavirus to still be rampant in the US when the election is due and for Trump to try to delay the election using the outbreak as a justification. And I'll be interested to see how that plays out.....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2020 21:58:03 GMT
I am still giving Kentucky the side eye on this one...
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Post by Zos on Mar 30, 2020 10:52:42 GMT
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Mar 30, 2020 22:40:32 GMT
Trump has a track record of not accepting any responsibility for anything. The easiest way to divert blame is to place it on someone else. This is especially important in an election year. So regardless of how well or badly they handle the coronavirus outbreak in the US, he wants to keep reminding everyone that all the bad things that are associated with it (i.e. death, job losses, economic downturn, etc) aren't his fault. They're all China's fault.And it's more important to him that he keeps trying to get that message across than actually dealing with the situation. The next US election will be very interesting. Part of me half expects the coronavirus to still be rampant in the US when the election is due and for Trump to try to delay the election using the outbreak as a justification. And I'll be interested to see how that plays out..... Well, in this scenario, China triggered it all and it is their fault from conception. Trump is just pussyfooting around because he doesn't really know what to do and it is the same for all world leaders who are having to ask for advise from the world health professionals. I accept that the virus originated in China. Just like more of the pollution in the world originates in America than anywhere else. But real leadership isn't about just saying "it's there fault so I'm going to sulk like a petulant child" - it's about trying to deal with the situation you're actually in. And if you've identified who's to blame and it looks like it was deliberate or it's going to be a recurring issue then you can look at reparations or imposing rules to try to stop it happening again at some point. But the important thing whilst the current issue is still ongoing is to sort out the current issue, isn't it? But I agree that many countries responses have been inadequate. They are slow to respond and when they do it's generally insufficient. South Korea is a good example of a country that took it seriously very quickly and look at how good their numbers are in comparison to pretty much everywhere else's.
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Post by thefleetsin on Apr 1, 2020 16:34:17 GMT
you can take blarney out of the mayhem but (you can't take the mayhem out of blarney)
so here in the united states of hysteria
where
perhaps only a few knew
it
wouldn't be malaria
that
caused medical insurance providers
to re-evaluate their own
investment portfolios
after it turned out
handing out bags of oranges and boxes of oreos
while labeling it healthcare
would eventually
lead to an all points bulletin repair
where
people could actually care
one for another
without the bother
of profit margins soon discovered
not worth the kickbacks
preciously
smitten upon.
sjw 04/01/2020 inspired at this very moment in time by a hail mary on an april fools joke.
from the 'blarney series' of poems
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Post by lowtacks86 on Apr 1, 2020 16:39:10 GMT
This could actually be used as an argument towards people that are against foreign aid. Imagine if international resources/money was used to prevent outbreaks like this from happening in foreign countries in the first place, then there wouldn't be such worldwide outbreaks. Even if someone hates the idea of giving aid/social assistance to other nations, there is at least some self interest reasons for doing it (preventing intetrnational outbreaks such as Corona)
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Apr 1, 2020 22:53:26 GMT
I accept that the virus originated in China. Just like more of the pollution in the world originates in America than anywhere else. But real leadership isn't about just saying "it's there fault so I'm going to sulk like a petulant child" - it's about trying to deal with the situation you're actually in. And if you've identified who's to blame and it looks like it was deliberate or it's going to be a recurring issue then you can look at reparations or imposing rules to try to stop it happening again at some point. But the important thing whilst the current issue is still ongoing is to sort out the current issue, isn't it? But I agree that many countries responses have been inadequate. They are slow to respond and when they do it's generally insufficient. South Korea is a good example of a country that took it seriously very quickly and look at how good their numbers are in comparison to pretty much everywhere else's. I think China still tops it in the pollution arena, but the US is up there with India as well.
The current issue though is also about a mechanization of those in control, that DON'T want things to be clear about what is going on. The confusion and segue into paranoia, hysteria and conflicting messages works in the establishments favor. It always has. Trump is just a messenger and as much as he is criticized, and same for other world leaders, as long as some message is getting out there, it doesn't matter how it is being delivered and handled. COVID-19, like any other virus, can't and won't be contained. All that is happening, is trying to slow down the spread, but for how long can one keep fighting an invisible enemy?
My bad - I meant pollution per capita. Well I've only caught parts of Trump's "message" today, but mostly it seems to be random thoughts that occur to him about anything and everything and he's just burped them out as they occurred to him. And not a lot to do with the current situation... But yes - the goal should be to try to slow down/minimise the spread.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 2, 2020 3:16:17 GMT
China (that is, it's government) is responsible for covering it up, not locking themselves down for the good of the rest of the world. They could have quarantined themselves to protect other nations. Instead, they had people traveling (3 billion trips according to CNN) so they ensured it would spread.
Their enablers/accomplices in the West--media, finance are also to blame. Just like with Tibet, they made excuses for China behaving like a barbarian.
People getting upset about appearing racist--it's absurd. China is destroying Tibet with absolute no regard for racial harmony.
And we are supposed to tiptoe so as not to hurt China's feelings?
They have been coddled for 20 years, it has not done the world any benefit.
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Post by Aj_June on May 14, 2020 9:02:59 GMT
puvo Admin Toasted Cheese captainbryce , thefleetsin Based on updated information, I realize my mistake in rushing to China's defense. As always, I am willing to own up to my mistakes. It seems to me that Chinese government may have had a bigger role in silencing the issue and thus not giving the world enough info to act more quickly. I will still hold back from saying how much they are responsible but I accept they are responsible for playing part in loss of human lives around the world.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 14, 2020 10:36:58 GMT
puvo Admin Toasted Cheese captainbryce , thefleetsin Based on updated information, I realize my mistake in rushing to China's defense. As always, I am willing to own up to my mistakes. It seems to me that Chinese government may have had a bigger role in silencing the issue and thus not giving the world enough info to act more quickly. I will still hold back from saying how much they are responsible but I accept they are responsible for playing part in loss of human lives around the world. I suspect that, like a good many things in life the issue of China's responsibility for the pandemic is something which is neither black or white. The world-wide consensus among researchers appears to be that the virus was not man-made nor released deliberately from the lab, while China made huge efforts to contain it, and has become better at helping others to tackle it; on the other hand it was slow to recognise the outbreak, is busy hacking others to get ahead in the vaccine race and is using the emergency to extend its soft power, especially given the vacuum shown elsewhere in world leadership.
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