Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2017 18:09:45 GMT
To me, John Starks gets too much blame for the Knicks losing the 1994 NBA Finals to the Rockets. No doubt, he was awful in Game 7 and that certainly hurt the Knicks' chances. But Patrick Ewing, quite frankly, deserves most of the blame. He's the star on the team and primary scoring option, and he shoots a pathetic 36 percent and averages a dreadful .083 points per shot attempt. In New York's wins in Game 2 and Game 4 he shot 7 for 19 and 8 for 28 respectively, so he was getting plenty of help. In all three wins, Starks had double-digit scoring 4th quarters, which was instrumental in those victories. In Game 6, Starks scored 16 of his 27 points in the final quarter while Ewing shot a dismal 6 for 20. If Ewing shoots just a little better, New York would have been leading at the end of Game 6 and wouldn't have needed a last-second three from Starks (that was ultimately blocked by Olajuwon)
Not to mention, Ewing's teammates thoroughly outplayed Hakeem's throughout, so he can't use the "had no help" excuse. Derek Harper dominated Kenny Smith and made him irrelevant. Starks had outplayed Vernon Maxwell up until Game 7. Charles Smith shot 12 percentage points better than Robert Horry. Charles Oakley locked down Otis Thorpe to a single-digit scoring average. So the difference really came down to Hakeem owning Ewing. Starks didn't deserve as much flak as he got.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 26, 2017 18:18:09 GMT
Scott Norwood
Bill Buckner
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Post by wonderburstanger on Apr 26, 2017 18:43:22 GMT
Chris Webber, when he called time out for Michigan in the NCAA Finals. Gets waaaay to much blame for that loss.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 26, 2017 19:00:43 GMT
Chris Webber, when he called time out for Michigan in the NCAA Finals. Gets waaaay to much blame for that loss. And he traveled. Twice. But I agree somewhat. The question no one ever seems to ask. Why was Webber taking the ball down the court? Where was Jalen Rose? I don't want my center driving down the court in the most important play of the season. |
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Post by No_Socks_Here on Apr 26, 2017 21:42:01 GMT
"And he traveled. Twice."
Shameful officiating that neither time was it called.
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Post by weststigersbob on Apr 26, 2017 23:15:11 GMT
This is a very American phenomenon. In Australia, unless it's a total complete blunder that is a once a year occurrence (or worse) in a big game, usually it's the winners that win it, not the losers losing it. Most big game controversy involves refereeing decisions, which is universal. I can't think of a single player in any of the Australian major sports being universally 'targeted' for losing a big game without a "fair" reason.
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Post by xystophoros on Apr 27, 2017 0:16:58 GMT
To me, John Starks gets too much blame for the Knicks losing the 1994 NBA Finals to the Rockets. No doubt, he was awful in Game 7 and that certainly hurt the Knicks' chances. But Patrick Ewing, quite frankly, deserves most of the blame. He's the star on the team and primary scoring option, and he shoots a pathetic 36 percent and averages a dreadful .083 points per shot attempt. In New York's wins in Game 2 and Game 4 he shot 7 for 19 and 8 for 28 respectively, so he was getting plenty of help. In all three wins, Starks had double-digit scoring 4th quarters, which was instrumental in those victories. In Game 6, Starks scored 16 of his 27 points in the final quarter while Ewing shot a dismal 6 for 20. If Ewing shoots just a little better, New York would have been leading at the end of Game 6 and wouldn't have needed a last-second three from Starks (that was ultimately blocked by Olajuwon) Not to mention, Ewing's teammates thoroughly outplayed Hakeem's throughout, so he can't use the "had no help" excuse. Derek Harper dominated Kenny Smith and made him irrelevant. Starks had outplayed Vernon Maxwell up until Game 7. Charles Smith shot 12 percentage points better than Robert Horry. Charles Oakley locked down Otis Thorpe to a single-digit scoring average. So the difference really came down to Hakeem owning Ewing. Starks didn't deserve as much flak as he got. This is so true. That series illustrated in no uncertain terms that Hakeem Olajuwon was better than Ewing in almost every conceivable way. I'm glad you mentioned Derek Harper, since he rarely gets credit as one of the great Knicks of that era. Harper was brutal on defense, a pick-pocket of the highest caliber, a great point guard, and he could score at will when he wanted to. As for Starks, the one thing I would say is that Knicks fans were (and still are) starved for a championship. The team was so close, and that Game 7 loss was so disappointing, that Starks was the natural scapegoat with his 2-18 shooting. Also don't forget that the Rangers won the Stanley Cup that year, so the Knicks would've brought home a second major championship for New York in the same year. Two long-suffering teams raising championship banners in Madison Square Garden...followed by the Yankees emerging as an exceptionally strong team. The Knicks lost, the Yankees never got the chance to win anything because the MLB season and playoffs were canceled due to the strike...and the rest is history. |
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zoilus
Junior Member
@zoilus
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Post by zoilus on Apr 27, 2017 0:25:30 GMT
Dogg McFee
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Apr 27, 2017 0:26:59 GMT
If you effed up, and your team loses, then you deserve to share at least part of the blame.  |
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Post by pk9 on Apr 27, 2017 2:04:32 GMT
Webber shouldn't even be in the discussion. Even had he managed to help the team finish with more points than UNC, the championship would later have been vacated because was ineligible.
Not a player, but I think Steve Bartman got blamed way too much.
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Post by marsexplorer on Apr 27, 2017 3:41:12 GMT
Chris Webber, when he called time out for Michigan in the NCAA Finals. Gets waaaay to much blame for that loss. And he traveled. Twice. But I agree somewhat. The question no one ever seems to ask. Why was Webber taking the ball down the court? Where was Jalen Rose? I don't want my center driving down the court in the most important play of the season. Webber wanted to pass to Rose but he was pinned against the sideline and covered, that is when he hesitated and committed his first traveling violation. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 27, 2017 3:56:13 GMT
And he traveled. Twice. But I agree somewhat. The question no one ever seems to ask. Why was Webber taking the ball down the court? Where was Jalen Rose? I don't want my center driving down the court in the most important play of the season. Webber wanted to pass to Rose but he was pinned against the sideline and covered, that is when he hesitated and committed his first traveling violation. Rose or King should have came up and got the ball from Webber after the rebound. Next time you see the play, watch Webber. He cradles the ball ans looks like he wants to call a TO right there. But he dribbled down court and into the fatal corner. He also picks up his pivot foot. I think Billy Packer even yelled "he traveled". So many goofs, all coming from the facts that Webber shouldn't have been in possession. Wasn't his fault. |
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ctown28
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Post by ctown28 on Apr 27, 2017 4:20:52 GMT
Ernest Byner and "the fumble" he got them back in position to be there
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Post by marsexplorer on Apr 27, 2017 4:27:45 GMT
Webber wanted to pass to Rose but he was pinned against the sideline and covered, that is when he hesitated and committed his first traveling violation. Rose or King should have came up and got the ball from Webber after the rebound. Next time you see the play, watch Webber. He cradles the ball ans looks like he wants to call a TO right there. But he dribbled down court and into the fatal corner. He also picks up his pivot foot. I think Billy Packer even yelled "he traveled". So many goofs, all coming from the facts that Webber shouldn't have been in possession. Wasn't his fault. I'm not sure why everyone sprinted down court when Webber grabbed the rebound. Rose did comeback but was covered. It looks to me like Webber wanted to pass, decided not to, traveled, then started dribbling. You can tell, as a freshman, his inexperience was part of his indecision. linkI agree, it was not Webber's fault, Michigan should of set up an outlet pass to both sides of the court. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 27, 2017 4:52:26 GMT
Rose or King should have came up and got the ball from Webber after the rebound. Next time you see the play, watch Webber. He cradles the ball ans looks like he wants to call a TO right there. But he dribbled down court and into the fatal corner. He also picks up his pivot foot. I think Billy Packer even yelled "he traveled". So many goofs, all coming from the facts that Webber shouldn't have been in possession. Wasn't his fault. I'm not sure why everyone sprinted down court when Webber grabbed the rebound. Rose did comeback but was covered. It looks to me like Webber wanted to pass, decided not to, traveled, then started dribbling. You can tell, as a freshman, his inexperience was part of his indecision. linkI agree, it was not Webber's fault, Michigan should of set up an outlet pass to both sides of the court. A Michigan player was back with Webber. Looks like #3, which was Juwan Howard. You have to look at the camera shot from the baseline to see Webber look like was going to call the timeout there and I can't link to it now. My brother played two years of D1 Basketball and he said it's inexcusable not to know you are out of TO's but he never played in a game like that (he never played much at all). One of the three memorable CBB plays ever, with Lorenzo Charles dunk and Laettner's miracle. |
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Post by marsexplorer on Apr 27, 2017 5:38:50 GMT
A Michigan player was back with Webber. Looks like #3, which was Juwan Howard. You have to look at the camera shot from the baseline to see Webber look like was going to call the timeout there and I can't link to it now. My brother played two years of D1 Basketball and he said it's inexcusable not to know you are out of TO's but he never played in a game like that (he never played much at all). Here's the baseline view you mentioned. linkWebber did start to signal timeout. I remember seeing a video of Michigan's timeout before the free throw. It was chaos, Steve Fischer did yell that they were out of timeouts but for some reason Webber was standing way back in the huddle. I feel bad for the guy, so much pressure for an 18-19 year old. Edit: With 23 pts and 11 rebounds Webber was the only reason Michigan was even that close. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 27, 2017 6:03:40 GMT
I'm not sure why everyone sprinted down court when Webber grabbed the rebound. Rose did comeback but was covered. It looks to me like Webber wanted to pass, decided not to, traveled, then started dribbling. You can tell, as a freshman, his inexperience was part of his indecision. linkI agree, it was not Webber's fault, Michigan should of set up an outlet pass to both sides of the court. A Michigan player was back with Webber. Looks like #3, which was Juwan Howard. You have to look at the camera shot from the baseline to see Webber look like was going to call the timeout there and I can't link to it now. My brother played two years of D1 Basketball and he said it's inexcusable not to know you are out of TO's but he never played in a game like that (he never played much at all). One of the three memorable CBB plays ever, with Lorenzo Charles dunk and Laettner's miracle. ESPN always calls Laettner's shot the most famous shot in CBB history, but I disagree. I think the most famous shot in CBB history was Lorenzo Charles' dunk. And 2nd and 3rd were Kris' Jenkins 25+ feet, buzzer-beating shot to win the national championship in 2016 and Michael Jordan's game-winning shot vs Georgetown in 1982. All 3 of those were game-winning shots in a national championship game. Laettner's shot was only in a regional final. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 27, 2017 6:15:05 GMT
A Michigan player was back with Webber. Looks like #3, which was Juwan Howard. You have to look at the camera shot from the baseline to see Webber look like was going to call the timeout there and I can't link to it now. My brother played two years of D1 Basketball and he said it's inexcusable not to know you are out of TO's but he never played in a game like that (he never played much at all). One of the three memorable CBB plays ever, with Lorenzo Charles dunk and Laettner's miracle. ESPN always calls Laettner's shot the most famous shot in CBB history, but I disagree. I think the most famous shot in CBB history was Lorenzo Charles' dunk. And 2nd and 3rd were Kris' Jenkins 25+ feet, buzzer-beating shot to win the national championship in 2016 and Michael Jordan's game-winning shot vs Georgetown in 1982. All 3 of those were game-winning shots in a national championship game. Laettner's shot was only in a regional final. Laettner was big because it was Duke-Kentucky. Kentucky was such a David v. Goliath . And it was such a great game, from beginning to end. And Jordan's was big, but it wasn't the deciding play. Georgetown had 7 seconds and Patrick Ewing. But Fred Brown threw the ball to James Worthy. Still the highest rated CBB was Bird -Magic in 1979, and it wasn't a very good game. 38 years and counting. |
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Post by marsexplorer on Apr 27, 2017 6:35:03 GMT
ESPN always calls Laettner's shot the most famous shot in CBB history, but I disagree. I think the most famous shot in CBB history was Lorenzo Charles' dunk. And 2nd and 3rd were Kris' Jenkins 25+ feet, buzzer-beating shot to win the national championship in 2016 and Michael Jordan's game-winning shot vs Georgetown in 1982. All 3 of those were game-winning shots in a national championship game. Laettner's shot was only in a regional final. Laettner's shot was by far the most difficult. He caught a 3/4 court pass, faked to the right and nailed 15 foot turnaround jump shot in less than 2 seconds. I agree with TheGoodMan. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 27, 2017 6:42:44 GMT
ESPN always calls Laettner's shot the most famous shot in CBB history, but I disagree. I think the most famous shot in CBB history was Lorenzo Charles' dunk. And 2nd and 3rd were Kris' Jenkins 25+ feet, buzzer-beating shot to win the national championship in 2016 and Michael Jordan's game-winning shot vs Georgetown in 1982. All 3 of those were game-winning shots in a national championship game. Laettner's shot was only in a regional final. Laettner was big because it was Duke-Kentucky. Kentucky was such a David v. Goliath . And it was such a great game, from beginning to end. And Jordan's was big, but it wasn't the deciding play. What makes Jordan's shot so famous is that Jordan was only a freshman at the time playing in his first Final Four so most of the country which don't follow CBB during the regular season and only watch the championship game had never heard of Jordan before or seen Jordan play. Then in a game with several All-Americans (Ewing, Worthy, Perkins, and Floyd), it's an unknown freshman who makes the game-winning shot and that unknown freshman went on to become the greatest player in NBA history. So that shot is so famous because it was the first of many big shots throughout Jordan's legendary career.
BTW, Duke-Kentucky may have been a David vs Goliath matchup, but so was Phi Slamma Jamma vs an NC State team that lost 10 games that season.
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