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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 1, 2020 23:57:07 GMT
My top 5 is on lock, there are probably another 10 who could compete for #6-10.
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Post by millar70 on Apr 2, 2020 0:31:24 GMT
Patrick Roy or Ken Dryden ahead of Martin Brodeur
Larry Robinson ahead of Ray Bourque
Sidney Crosby? Please...... you could easily put guys like Phil Esposito, Stan Mikita, or Cam Neeley above Crosby.
It pains me to put Montreal players ahead of guys like Bourque, but I must be honest about it.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Apr 2, 2020 2:26:59 GMT
I kind of feel that goalies should have a separate list, of which Brodeur would be top 3. But not top 10 on this list. Roy was better in my opinion and Bossy has to be in the top 10.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 2, 2020 15:42:14 GMT
Poll results are hilarious, people clearly troll voting franchises/players they don't like. Either that or they didn't understand the question. Orr, Gretzky, Howe or Lemieux having any votes at all is comical.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 2, 2020 16:00:40 GMT
Poll results are hilarious, people clearly troll voting franchises/players they don't like. Either that or they didn't understand the question. Orr, Gretzky, Howe or Lemieux having any votes at all is comical. Just wait until I do an NFL poll next week. That thing could be flammable.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 2, 2020 16:08:12 GMT
I kind of feel that goalies should have a separate list, of which Brodeur would be top 3. But not top 10 on this list. Roy was better in my opinion and Bossy has to be in the top 10. Roy was in my nearest HM's along with Doug Harvey, Bobby Hull, & Ovechkin. After that come the contemporaries like Yzerman, Sakic, & Jagr.
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Post by OrsonSwelles on Apr 2, 2020 19:52:36 GMT
I think you can replace Richard and Beliveau easily as they benefit from a stacked system in their favour. Ovechkin and Bossy are their replacements. To make a top 10 the equivalent of half a team I'd drop Messier and replace him with a d-man, Robinson or Coffey. I'd also take Hasek over Brodeur.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 2, 2020 19:56:17 GMT
Ever hear of Dominik Hasek?
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Apr 2, 2020 23:32:38 GMT
Ever hear of Dominik Hasek? Yes, he’s the guy #2 behind Roy. |
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 3, 2020 0:05:22 GMT
Ever hear of Dominik Hasek? Yes, he’s the guy #2 behind Roy. He shouldn't be. If Hasek had played on those Canadiens or teams, they never would have allowed a single goal. 81 games, 81 shutouts. Look at the number he put u[ on mediocre Sabres team. Hasek was a more dominant goaltender than Wayne Gretzky was a dominant goalscorer
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Apr 3, 2020 0:20:34 GMT
Yes, he’s the guy #2 behind Roy. He shouldn't be. If Hasek had played on those Canadiens or teams, they never would have allowed a single goal. 81 games, 81 shutouts. Look at the number he put u[ on mediocre Sabres team. Hasek was a more dominant goaltender than Wayne Gretzky was a dominant goalscorer
Hasek played on those Red Wings teams that dominated and he didn't get 81 shutouts then. In no way am I saying Hasek wasn't great or anything, it's pretty prestigious to be #2 all time in something.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 3, 2020 1:46:58 GMT
He shouldn't be. If Hasek had played on those Canadiens or teams, they never would have allowed a single goal. 81 games, 81 shutouts. Look at the number he put u[ on mediocre Sabres team. Hasek was a more dominant goaltender than Wayne Gretzky was a dominant goalscorer
Hasek played on those Red Wings teams that dominated and he didn't get 81 shutouts then. In no way am I saying Hasek wasn't great or anything, it's pretty prestigious to be #2 all time in something. And he was 37 when he joined the Wings. He was the greatest goaltender in history, period. Yeah, I'm a Sabres fan and could be considered biased. Except that I didn't like Hasek that much as a person. He was a petulant asshole here in Buffalo. Feuded with management, took time off for tiny injuries. He coeld have been considered a clubhouse cancer and his antics probably hurt the Sabres. But the asshole was brilliant.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Apr 3, 2020 2:19:07 GMT
Hasek played on those Red Wings teams that dominated and he didn't get 81 shutouts then. In no way am I saying Hasek wasn't great or anything, it's pretty prestigious to be #2 all time in something. And he was 37 when he joined the Wings. He was the greatest goaltender in history, period. Yeah, I'm a Sabres fan and could be considered biased. Except that I didn't like Hasek that much as a person. He was a petulant asshole here in Buffalo. Feuded with management, took time off for tiny injuries. He coeld have been considered a clubhouse cancer and his antics probably hurt the Sabres. But the asshole was brilliant.
Listen, I think the margin between them is paper thin. It’s like Ferrari and Lamborghini, The Beatles and the Stones. I’d say that Hasek probably had the higher peak, but Roy was Joe Montana during the playoffs, won more cups, had a longer peak, was the man. |
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Post by SportsFan19 on Apr 3, 2020 15:33:24 GMT
Hasek played on those Red Wings teams that dominated and he didn't get 81 shutouts then. In no way am I saying Hasek wasn't great or anything, it's pretty prestigious to be #2 all time in something. And he was 37 when he joined the Wings. He was the greatest goaltender in history, period. Yeah, I'm a Sabres fan and could be considered biased. Except that I didn't like Hasek that much as a person. He was a petulant asshole here in Buffalo. Feuded with management, took time off for tiny injuries. He coeld have been considered a clubhouse cancer and his antics probably hurt the Sabres. But the asshole was brilliant.
You successfully argued him down in my eyes.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 3, 2020 16:27:19 GMT
I don't think Hasek makes it - because even during his MVP years, he wasn't considered the clear best ever.
2 Hart trophies for a goalie. I dunno, maybe he was like the Steve Nash of the NHL - no one quite knew how to wrap their brains around them, other than reward them as the best for the time.
Roy-Broduer, I do think Marty was a tad more technically & psychologically sound for his gig. Roy tips a bit more to that big game guy side of the ledger, where Grant Fuhr dominates. Roy could definitely be top 15-20 for me, easily. I just feel like Brodeur's volume of greatness inks it...
3 Cups, 5 Jennings, 4 Vezinas, 1 starting Olympic gold, & they even created the trapezoid rule after him because of his stick work.
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Post by OrsonSwelles on Apr 3, 2020 18:36:51 GMT
I don't think Hasek makes it - because even during his MVP years, he wasn't considered the clear best ever. 2 Hart trophies for a goalie. I dunno, maybe he was like the Steve Nash of the NHL - no one quite knew how to wrap their brains around them, other than reward them as the best for the time. Roy-Broduer, I do think Marty was a tad more technically & psychologically sound for his gig. Roy tips a bit more to that big game guy side of the ledger, where Grant Fuhr dominates. Roy could definitely be top 15-20 for me, easily. I just feel like Brodeur's volume of greatness inks it... 3 Cups, 5 Jennings, 4 Vezinas, 1 starting Olympic gold, & they even created the trapezoid rule after him because of his stick work. Brodeur's volume of greatness facing among the fewest shots/game year after year?
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Apr 3, 2020 20:05:58 GMT
I don't think Hasek makes it - because even during his MVP years, he wasn't considered the clear best ever. 2 Hart trophies for a goalie. I dunno, maybe he was like the Steve Nash of the NHL - no one quite knew how to wrap their brains around them, other than reward them as the best for the time. Roy-Broduer, I do think Marty was a tad more technically & psychologically sound for his gig. Roy tips a bit more to that big game guy side of the ledger, where Grant Fuhr dominates. Roy could definitely be top 15-20 for me, easily. I just feel like Brodeur's volume of greatness inks it... 3 Cups, 5 Jennings, 4 Vezinas, 1 starting Olympic gold, & they even created the trapezoid rule after him because of his stick work. Hasek had baggage. His days in Chicago when he was 2nd string. his shit attitude. The fact that he played in Buffalo and not NYC or Montreal. The fact that he was European and not North American. Once again, those Sabres team weren't all that good but came within one illegal skate from a Cup because of Hasek, pure and simple. The Sabres defense was ramshackle and too dependent on Hasek. He faced a kabillion shots a game and that took a toll as the season wore on. Roy, Brodeur, Parent, Dryden, all played of great teams. I'm not the only one who thinks Hasek was the greatest
Before you post, yes I know there are sites that don't have Hasek as #1. Read the writeups. It all boils down to Roy/Brodeur/parent was better because the won Stanley Cups
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Apr 3, 2020 21:35:12 GMT
I don't think Hasek makes it - because even during his MVP years, he wasn't considered the clear best ever. 2 Hart trophies for a goalie. I dunno, maybe he was like the Steve Nash of the NHL - no one quite knew how to wrap their brains around them, other than reward them as the best for the time. Roy-Broduer, I do think Marty was a tad more technically & psychologically sound for his gig. Roy tips a bit more to that big game guy side of the ledger, where Grant Fuhr dominates. Roy could definitely be top 15-20 for me, easily. I just feel like Brodeur's volume of greatness inks it... 3 Cups, 5 Jennings, 4 Vezinas, 1 starting Olympic gold, & they even created the trapezoid rule after him because of his stick work. Hasek had baggage. His days in Chicago when he was 2nd string. his shit attitude. The fact that he played in Buffalo and not NYC or Montreal. The fact that he was European and not North American. Once again, those Sabres team weren't all that good but came within one illegal skate from a Cup because of Hasek, pure and simple. The Sabres defense was ramshackle and too dependent on Hasek. He faced a kabillion shots a game and that took a toll as the season wore on. Roy, Brodeur, Parent, Dryden, all played of great teams. I'm not the only one who thinks Hasek was the greatest
Before you post, yes I know there are sites that don't have Hasek as #1. Read the writeups. It all boils down to Roy/Brodeur/parent was better because the won Stanley Cups
I mean isn’t that kind of how it works, albeit unfairly? Don’t the legacies of Dan Marino, Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, etc suffer a little bit against those who did win championships? |
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Post by twothousandonemark on Apr 3, 2020 21:56:42 GMT
I don't think Hasek makes it - because even during his MVP years, he wasn't considered the clear best ever. 2 Hart trophies for a goalie. I dunno, maybe he was like the Steve Nash of the NHL - no one quite knew how to wrap their brains around them, other than reward them as the best for the time. Roy-Broduer, I do think Marty was a tad more technically & psychologically sound for his gig. Roy tips a bit more to that big game guy side of the ledger, where Grant Fuhr dominates. Roy could definitely be top 15-20 for me, easily. I just feel like Brodeur's volume of greatness inks it... 3 Cups, 5 Jennings, 4 Vezinas, 1 starting Olympic gold, & they even created the trapezoid rule after him because of his stick work. Brodeur's volume of greatness facing among the fewest shots/game year after year? I don't go there. I don't take away Lou Gehrig's greatness because of Ruth, I don't take away Montana or Rice's greatness because of each other, & I don't take Scotty Bowman's, Vince Lombardi, or Casey Stengal's greatness away because dynastic rosters.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Apr 3, 2020 22:02:56 GMT
Brodeur's volume of greatness facing among the fewest shots/game year after year? I don't go there. I don't take away Lou Gehrig's greatness because of Ruth, I don't take away Montana or Rice's greatness because of each other, & I don't take Scotty Bowman's, Vince Lombardi, or Casey Stengal's greatness away because dynastic rosters. Brodeur was legitimately great, but where would he rank among all time goalies without that Devils system in front of him? |
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