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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2020 1:51:06 GMT
I might be able to put your mind at ease if I knew what I said that made you this way. I'm sure it's just my own frailty. These are tense times for everyone. If you'll accept my sincere apology, I'd like to gratefully move on. Nah, it's my fault. I have a tendency to believe that emoticons aren't always necessary. To make matters even worse, I sometimes forget that I'm the admin here. It's cool, man. I get it. You can stay. I'll leave.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Apr 4, 2020 2:19:47 GMT
“A general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir [derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa].” “In the face, too, of financial operations, the success of which many of their detractors would envy, one fails to understand the agitation which would place the operators in the same category as the half-heathen Native and confine him to Locations, and subject him to the harsher laws by which the Transvaal Kaffir [derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa] is governed.” “So far as the feeling has been expressed, it is to degrade the Indian to the position of the Kaffir [derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa] .” “Ours is one continual struggle against a degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the Europeans, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir [derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa] whose occupation is hunting, and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with and, then, pass his life in indolence and nakedness.” “Your Petitioner has seen the Location intended to be used by the Indians. It would place them, who are undoubtedly infinitely superior to the Kaffirs [derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa], in close proximity to the latter.” “The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs [derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa].” face2faceafrica.com/article/6-quotes-that-will-convince-black-people-not-to-celebrate-gandhiSo would you consider these things Gandhi wrote as racist ? And yes these are actual quotes by Gandhi. You clearly don't understand the context upon which those statements were said, or what the word Kaffir actually means.
By the way, is Kaffir a derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa? I don't think you stressed that enough.
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2020 2:19:55 GMT
Nah, it's my fault. I have a tendency to believe that emoticons aren't always necessary. To make matters even worse, I sometimes forget that I'm the admin here. It's cool, man. I get it. You can stay. I'll leave. If I display visible upset, I'm sure it's because I respect you (due to interractions on the Music board). We're all living through difficult times so I'm surprised you don't jack it all in, as others are doing. I've never been less than unequivocal in my enthusiastic though untechnical support for this site and those running it (I assume voluntarily), as it's a virtual lifeline many of us would rather have than not have. But if it gets closed down, we'll all need to be pragmatic like when imdb closed down, as there are worse things in life (like sudden death).
You mentioned jumping into a thread without knowing anything about the topic. I did the same. I do it a lot, actually. Especially when I want to know more about the subject. In this case, I'm interested in whether or not the, um, k-word was considered a racial slur back when Gandhi said it. If it was, is he considered a racist because he uttered the word, or because of what he was actually saying? And if isn't because he dared to speak the k-word, then why bother highlighting it, complete with its definition in parenthesis for those who don't know what it is? So much potential here. I'd hate to see it go to waste simply because my presence is making you nervous, so I'll be moseying along now...
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Post by ProjectError on Apr 4, 2020 2:37:58 GMT
No. The first quote he was saying kids SHOULDN'T be raised to believe their race is better. He was using Kaffir in the ironic sense to make a point. You have to factor in culture and time period. Silly goose. Would this have been your answer is Gandhi was a white European? I guess so. Depends on context and culture. What difference would that have made here, though? The reason "blacks can say n*gga but white people can't" has nothing to do with their race. It has to do with systemic oppression and de facto white supremacy. Gandhi wasn't a minority. I'd add that Abraham Lincoln may have abolished slavery, but he was not for equal rights of African Americans for what we think equal rights consist of today. He'd be racist certainly by today's standards. If you go back 50 years, every one was homophobic/sexist/racist. Same with Lincoln. It's also why we see old-timers like Bloomberg and Biden get harassment complaints, because back in their youth, there were different rules on how to speak with women. In their day, they were acting appropriately.Was Gandhi racist? By today's standards, possibly, back then, he was a bleeding liberal heart. If you go back far enough, everyone is guilty.
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Post by Sarge on Apr 4, 2020 4:33:17 GMT
Would this have been your answer is Gandhi was a white European? I wasn't asked but my answer is yes. Here's a question for you, do you believe Gandhi was a bad person? If you are looking for an infallible hero, stick with fiction because they don't exist in the real world. Everyone is something, a racist, liar, cheat, sexist, murderer, thief, adulterer, something.
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Post by Sarge on Apr 4, 2020 5:06:48 GMT
It doesn't surprise me that Gandhi was racist. Every culture is racist. Africans are racist, Indians are racist, Asians are racist, Europeans are racist, and slavery was part of all those cultures for centuries. Racism can often be an ideal card to play when selective reasonings and agendas are on the table. It exists, but within whom? Racism is normal to an extent. We are social animals and have the capacity to care for those within our "group" (which is complex in civilized society) and to be wary of the other, those who are different. For example I was raised in a predominately blue collar Irish American community and there were very clear lines between "us" and "them". Us were family, church, school, and community in roughly that order; they were overwhelmly white protestant, mostly Irish, German, French and English (usually mixed). The Other were everyone else. To a person raised in a more cosmopolitan community, like where I now live, "us" includes multiple races. Both my kids have diverse friend groups that include Africans, Indians, Asians, African Americans, and Asian Americans. The worst racism is institutionalized racism that disadvantages groups of people, that is where the focus needs to be. We will never eliminate individual racism because millions of years of evolution have taught us to prefer those most like ourselves. My dog loves us, she loves other dogs, but she visibly becomes more excited around other yellow labs, labs in other colors, and yellow medium dogs in that order.
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2020 5:44:26 GMT
Would this have been your answer is Gandhi was a white European? I wasn't asked but my answer is yes. Here's a question for you, do you believe Gandhi was a bad person? If you are looking for an infallible hero, stick with fiction because they don't exist in the real world. Everyone is something, a racist, liar, cheat, sexist, murderer, thief, adulterer, something. Gandhi was a super calloused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Apr 4, 2020 7:03:36 GMT
If I display visible upset, I'm sure it's because I respect you (due to interractions on the Music board). We're all living through difficult times so I'm surprised you don't jack it all in, as others are doing. I've never been less than unequivocal in my enthusiastic though untechnical support for this site and those running it (I assume voluntarily), as it's a virtual lifeline many of us would rather have than not have. But if it gets closed down, we'll all need to be pragmatic like when imdb closed down, as there are worse things in life (like sudden death).
You mentioned jumping into a thread without knowing anything about the topic. I did the same. I do it a lot, actually. Especially when I want to know more about the subject. In this case, I'm interested in whether or not the, um, k-word was considered a racial slur back when Gandhi said it. If it was, is he considered a racist because he uttered the word, or because of what he was actually saying? And if isn't because he dared to speak the k-word, then why bother highlighting it, complete with its definition in parenthesis for those who don't know what it is? So much potential here. I'd hate to see it go to waste simply because my presence is making you nervous, so I'll be moseying along now... This is from Wikipedia, but probably the best answer anyone in this thread is going to give you: Considering Gandhi literally died four months before Apartheid, I'm guessing it wasn't "the K word" when he said it. I'm also guessing the OP has an agenda here, primarily to excuse white European racism by saying "see look brown peeple racist 2". Unfortunately for white European racists, he sets about this by falsely implying Gandhi was going around dropping a [derogatory term used to describe black people in South Africa] that wasn't derogatory until (ironically) white people started using it after Gandhi was no longer even on this Earth.
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2020 9:57:03 GMT
Gandhi was a super calloused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.Wow Admin! You have cracked the code. I always knew you were a dark horse. That's plagiarism. Who knew Mary Poppins was a thief?
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2020 10:29:15 GMT
That's plagiarism. Who knew Mary Poppins was a thief? I can see a copyright lawsuit coming up. It might be kinda difficult to get Poppins to show up as a witness, so the outcome will more than likely be in your favor. I just hope you haven't created a ripple effect of culture shock with your genius explanation. You have taken the pop out of Poppins and it aint' so magical anymore.... Oops. Let's hope the ripple hits another ripple or two and creates an interference pattern that makes everyone's eyes go all googly so I can slip out the back door.
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Post by kuatorises on Apr 4, 2020 14:07:32 GMT
Would you have said that if a white European had said it ? Would you have made this thread if a white European had said it? Of course he would have. People like this never pass up an opportunity to bash white folk. It's the modern liberal war cry.
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Post by kuatorises on Apr 4, 2020 14:13:14 GMT
Yeah, but who cares? You're talking about someone who DIED 72 years ago. He was born 151 years ago, for Christ's sake. The Civil War ended 4 years before he was born. You can't judge people like that by modern morals and ethics. Would you have said that if a white European had said it ? I think anyone who's ever had an intelligent discussion about our founding fathers, older relatives, or past - and has a modicum of common sense - has done just that.
Seriously, fuck off with your misguided outrage and "gotcha" attempts. I'm glad everyone is giving you shit over it.
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Post by onethreetwo on Apr 4, 2020 14:30:10 GMT
I don't know anything about Gandhi outside of a few quotes I read a long time ago, but he doesn't strike me as a hateful person.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Apr 4, 2020 15:16:20 GMT
Would you have said that if a white European had said it ? I think anyone who's ever had an intelligent discussion about our founding fathers, older relatives, or past - and has a modicum of common sense - has done just that.
Seriously, fuck off with your misguided outrage and "gotcha" attempts. I'm glad everyone is giving you shit over it.
Oh my what a little snowflake Getting offended because i asked a question. Do you want your mommy ?
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Post by kuatorises on Apr 4, 2020 18:22:39 GMT
I think anyone who's ever had an intelligent discussion about our founding fathers, older relatives, or past - and has a modicum of common sense - has done just that.
Seriously, fuck off with your misguided outrage and "gotcha" attempts. I'm glad everyone is giving you shit over it.
Oh my what a little snowflake
Getting offended because i asked a question. Do you want your mommy ? You're so bothered about racial slurs a guy who was born 150 years ago used that you not only made a thread about it, you passively aggressively (didn't even have the balls to outright say it to people) accused 90% of the people who responded racist. You don't get to use words like snowflake and offended.
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Post by Nora on Apr 4, 2020 19:01:56 GMT
Getting offended because of a question, what a bunch of snowflakes you people are well some of you. seriously someone reported it?? I didnt even get a chance to read the whole thing… and now i dont know what all the fuss is about...
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Post by onethreetwo on Apr 4, 2020 19:07:19 GMT
Getting offended because of a question, what a bunch of snowflakes you people are well some of you. seriously someone reported it?? I didnt even get a chance to read the whole thing… and now i dont know what all the fuss is about... Not reported. I don't think anyway. Admin even participated in the discussion a bit. The OP was quoted if you want to see what it was.
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Post by Nora on Apr 4, 2020 19:27:16 GMT
But Gamey, what about the history of US slavery which is still a big issue with many? I believe the U.S. Government owes reparations to the descendants of African-American slaves for allowing U.S. citizens to be enslaved in defiance of the U.S. Bill of Rights. That's a legal issue.However, I don't personally blame anyone who grew up in 18th century for believing slavery was acceptable. It was an established economic practice at the time. I understand you are primarily talking about the US as you are (I presume) an US citizen. But out of curiosity, I wonder - do you believe that to be an US issue only? Or should reparations be given to the descendants of ANY slaves Anywhere, when it means the government allowed enslaving of its nationals/citizens/people who lived/were born there? I mean look at all the countries and the timelines. How would that even work? or just those who were kidnapped/sold from somewhere else? would it have to be a different country or a different town is enough? There is a lot of slavery history all over the world, applying to any/all races and ethnicities at one point or another.
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2020 20:08:06 GMT
Getting offended because of a question, what a bunch of snowflakes you people are well some of you. seriously someone reported it?? I didnt even get a chance to read the whole thing… and now i dont know what all the fuss is about... Nobody reported this thread. Apparently the OP didn’t like something somebody said so he took his ball and went home.
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Post by Admin on Apr 4, 2020 20:21:18 GMT
And the U.S. Constitution enshrined slavery and said blacks were 3/5 of a human being. Are you making shit up again?
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