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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 27, 2017 22:47:22 GMT
As I said, he was a mentor. However, Bruce had three. And he owes pretty much all three of them equally. Ra's for his tactics, Alfred for moral support, and Luscious for his gadgets. Without any of them, Bruce wouldn't be the full fledged Batman he becomes.
Ra's definitely helped give Bruce focus. But that's where it ends. After that, Ra's is forgotten about until the third act. By which point, Bruce has already become his own man with his own philosophy and iconography.
Ra's didn't dominate Bruce's story anymore than Alfred or Luscious did, and they were in the movie far more than he was.
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Stuart "2-D" Pot
Sophomore
Guess who's back?
@startrekkie1202
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Post by Stuart "2-D" Pot on Apr 28, 2017 11:41:16 GMT
It will glorious for me to one day look back and laugh at the passing fad that is the MCU, while looking forward to the new Batman and X-Men movies. Zome comicz fan fat you are colden. Summink must be wrong wiv you if you fink fat MCU is a passing fad.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 28, 2017 11:46:54 GMT
It will glorious for me to one day look back and laugh at the passing fad that is the MCU, while looking forward to the new Batman and X-Men movies. Zome comicz fan fat you are colden. Summink must be wrong wiv you if you fink fat MCU is a passing fad.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 28, 2017 13:52:27 GMT
Like it or not, the MCU's influence on the genre will be here for years to come. People aren't going for that sell-out "grounded" approach anymore.
If anything, Nolan and Singers' way was the fad.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 28, 2017 14:38:50 GMT
Singer was never grounded. Nolan's take was perfect for Batman, it just doesn't work with anyone else. Proof of the success of the MCU isn't only in the box office numbers, but in the fact that everybody is doing shared universes now. DC heroes, Universal classic monster movies, Godzilla/King Kong, that odd collection of 80s toys that are alleged to be in the works as a film series (Visionaries, GoBots, GI Joe, MASK). Every studio wants to recreate Marvel's successful formula now.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 28, 2017 14:45:45 GMT
Singer was never grounded. Nolan's take was perfect for Batman, it just doesn't work with anyone else. Proof of the success of the MCU isn't only in the box office numbers, but in the fact that everybody is doing shared universes now. DC heroes, Universal classic monster movies, Godzilla/King Kong, that odd collection of 80s toys that are alleged to be in the works as a film series (Visionaries, GoBots, GI Joe, MASK). Every studio wants to recreate Marvel's successful formula now. It's because every entry provides variety, but also a consistent product. You know the next film is going to be enjoyable, but instead of being of introducing Doctor Strange, it's going to be about your favorite team the Guardians who are back. And then the next film will be back on Earth to give you more than 5 minutes with Spiderman. And then the next film will be back in space again with an old favorite Thor. And then back to character introduction again with Black Panther. It's always a different experience, while you wait for other things, so it maintains a strong sense of anticipation and satisfaction simultaneously.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 28, 2017 18:16:29 GMT
Singer was never grounded. Nolan's take was perfect for Batman, it just doesn't work with anyone else. Proof of the success of the MCU isn't only in the box office numbers, but in the fact that everybody is doing shared universes now. DC heroes, Universal classic monster movies, Godzilla/King Kong, that odd collection of 80s toys that are alleged to be in the works as a film series (Visionaries, GoBots, GI Joe, MASK). Every studio wants to recreate Marvel's successful formula now. Singer's way is grounded. It's why even after 17 years they still have trouble considering doing a cool space movie with the Shi'Ar and stuff. Singer just dislikes the comic. And Nolan's take worked so well because of the lack of real competition. He basically said "Look everyone, it's okay to be ashamed of comics. Have my stuff instead." and people ate it up. It's why MCU still has a hard time getting accepted and more requests for it being "grounded", because Nolan and Singer left a real scar on the genre.
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Post by brownstones on Apr 28, 2017 18:22:59 GMT
can we delete this thread and reboot it?
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on Apr 28, 2017 18:45:54 GMT
can we delete this thread and reboot it? What for? It would probably end up with the same content from different posters.
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TheHiawatha
Sophomore
@thehiawatha
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Post by TheHiawatha on Apr 28, 2017 21:19:53 GMT
I'll tell you another example.
I grew up in the late 90's with the WWF vs WCW war. Now, WCW was never better and it wasn't close. WWF was always the more polished product and WCW basically bought enough big names who were aging out to maintain viewership. I wanted nothing more than for WCW to just go away because it was an embarrassing show, and the day that Vince McMahon announced the buyout of WCW at the start of Raw is War, was an outstanding FUCK YOU moment to anybody who had ever supported the craptastic WCW. BUT, that's also the day when the WWF began it's nosedive into the obscurity it inhabits again now. It may be wildly popular among it's own fans, but it does not extend beyond that fanbase. Whereas there was a line of universally recognized talent, that has all but gone away. And while DC is likewise the inferior product to Marvel, I do wonder what happens if they shrivel up any further than they have. I'd like to say Marvel is dedicated enough to their product that it really doesn't matter what happens to DC, and they frankly don't care, but then again I thought the same thing about the WWF. And before anybody says the DC is just as good, just look at the laundry list of relevant characters in Marvel who were relevant even before the films, and are wildly popular after. Compare that with Superman, who most find boring. They aren't even advertising for the Wonder Woman film. And if you think Flash is a culturally relevant character, you're kidding yourself. Yes, there's Batman, and basically nothing else. Marvel has built themselves such a large stable that it's almost an embarrassment of riches now, but again, I do wonder what happens if they pushed to overwhelm everything, from video games to animation, and DC had almost no leg to stand on.
A lot of good points there. The DCEU may be making a lot of money for now, but it's hopelessly inferior to the MCU in terms of quality. Batman is really all they have going for them now, just like how X-Men now really only has Deadpool. Superman is still well known, but his heyday is long gone. Personally, I think he's pretty much become DC's version of the Hulk, incredibly well known and a pop culture icon, yet many people just aren't interested in him like they are with Batman, Spider-Man, and now Iron Man (and maybe even Captain America). I could see the day when the DCEU finally folds, the MCU and X-Men/Deadpool start feeling the pinch as well. That said, I think the MCU will fare better than WWF/WWE, at least in terms of pop culture. I see it becoming to superhero movies what James Bond became to spy flicks. Spy movies had been done long before Bond, but Bond perfected the formula and pretty much became synonymous with the genre and almost always delivered what people paid to see. Similarly with Marvel, I see them having high and low points of popularity, but forever becoming a pop culture staple with a sizable cult following and always being relevant.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Apr 28, 2017 21:34:07 GMT
A lot of good points there. The DCEU may be making a lot of money for now, but it's hopelessly inferior to the MCU in terms of quality. Batman is really all they have going for them now, just like how X-Men now really only has Deadpool. Superman is still well known, but his heyday is long gone. Personally, I think he's pretty much become DC's version of the Hulk, incredibly well known and a pop culture icon, yet many people just aren't interested in him like they are with Batman, Spider-Man, and now Iron Man (and maybe even Captain America). I could see the day when the DCEU finally folds, the MCU and X-Men/Deadpool start feeling the pinch as well. That said, I think the MCU will fare better than WWF/WWE, at least in terms of pop culture. I see it becoming to superhero movies what James Bond became to spy flicks. Spy movies had been done long before Bond, but Bond perfected the formula and pretty much became synonymous with the genre and almost always delivered what people paid to see. Similarly with Marvel, I see them having high and low points of popularity, but forever becoming a pop culture staple with a sizable cult following and always being relevant. I'd just like to qualify that in a certain sense DC has made money on their films, but it is far less than they should have. BVS did something like 850 mil, and sure that sounds like a lot, but a film advertising a fight between batman and superman and featuring the debut of wonder woman, and effectively being an obvious justice league prequel, should have easily done 1.2 billion. So it essentially lit nearly $400 million on fire.
Like you said, I think the MCU will fare better than the WWF. I think Marvel is more committed to the authenticity of their product while the WWF was more interested in shock value and instant ratings. One key example of that is Marvel's consistent tone, while the WWF started devaluing their championships by letting basically anybody hold them, and for very short periods of time. They let the act of a title change be the main excitement factor rather than the meaning of the title being rare and extremely valuable.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 28, 2017 22:32:23 GMT
I'll tell you another example.
I grew up in the late 90's with the WWF vs WCW war. Now, WCW was never better and it wasn't close. WWF was always the more polished product and WCW basically bought enough big names who were aging out to maintain viewership. I wanted nothing more than for WCW to just go away because it was an embarrassing show, and the day that Vince McMahon announced the buyout of WCW at the start of Raw is War, was an outstanding FUCK YOU moment to anybody who had ever supported the craptastic WCW. BUT, that's also the day when the WWF began it's nosedive into the obscurity it inhabits again now. It may be wildly popular among it's own fans, but it does not extend beyond that fanbase. Whereas there was a line of universally recognized talent, that has all but gone away. And while DC is likewise the inferior product to Marvel, I do wonder what happens if they shrivel up any further than they have. I'd like to say Marvel is dedicated enough to their product that it really doesn't matter what happens to DC, and they frankly don't care, but then again I thought the same thing about the WWF. And before anybody says the DC is just as good, just look at the laundry list of relevant characters in Marvel who were relevant even before the films, and are wildly popular after. Compare that with Superman, who most find boring. They aren't even advertising for the Wonder Woman film. And if you think Flash is a culturally relevant character, you're kidding yourself. Yes, there's Batman, and basically nothing else. Marvel has built themselves such a large stable that it's almost an embarrassment of riches now, but again, I do wonder what happens if they pushed to overwhelm everything, from video games to animation, and DC had almost no leg to stand on.
A lot of good points there. The DCEU may be making a lot of money for now, but it's hopelessly inferior to the MCU in terms of quality. Batman is really all they have going for them now, just like how X-Men now really only has Deadpool. Superman is still well known, but his heyday is long gone. Personally, I think he's pretty much become DC's version of the Hulk, incredibly well known and a pop culture icon, yet many people just aren't interested in him like they are with Batman, Spider-Man, and now Iron Man (and maybe even Captain America). I could see the day when the DCEU finally folds, the MCU and X-Men/Deadpool start feeling the pinch as well. That said, I think the MCU will fare better than WWF/WWE, at least in terms of pop culture. I see it becoming to superhero movies what James Bond became to spy flicks. Spy movies had been done long before Bond, but Bond perfected the formula and pretty much became synonymous with the genre and almost always delivered what people paid to see. Similarly with Marvel, I see them having high and low points of popularity, but forever becoming a pop culture staple with a sizable cult following and always being relevant. The entire source quote fundamentally misunderstands the comparison between WCW and WWF, as well as the events of the Attitude Era. Weirdly enough I think the comparison is fairly apt, but more so between DC and the NWA and WWF/Marvel.
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Post by merh on May 1, 2017 3:08:39 GMT
Come on. Don't be that guy. You know exactly why. Ahaha, obvs. Hey, man! How are you? You know me. I'm just busting these jagoffs' balls to whip them into an absolute frenzy, and they are eating it up. I mean: THE MCU WILL BE DISCOVERED BY ALIEN ARCHEOLOGISTS DIGGING THROUGH THE RUINS OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION AND REGARDED POORLY!!!!!!1 Why the giant hate for Disney? Disney's wonderful world of color was a big part of my childhood. You one of those guys that will hate Disney forever for buying Pixar?
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Post by merh on May 1, 2017 3:14:30 GMT
Singer was never grounded. Nolan's take was perfect for Batman, it just doesn't work with anyone else. Proof of the success of the MCU isn't only in the box office numbers, but in the fact that everybody is doing shared universes now. DC heroes, Universal classic monster movies, Godzilla/King Kong, that odd collection of 80s toys that are alleged to be in the works as a film series (Visionaries, GoBots, GI Joe, MASK). Every studio wants to recreate Marvel's successful formula now. Nolan worked because Bat fans are obsessed maniacs. The holes in Nolan's Batfilms drive me crazy.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 1, 2017 3:14:48 GMT
Ahaha, obvs. Hey, man! How are you? You know me. I'm just busting these jagoffs' balls to whip them into an absolute frenzy, and they are eating it up. I mean: THE MCU WILL BE DISCOVERED BY ALIEN ARCHEOLOGISTS DIGGING THROUGH THE RUINS OF HUMAN CIVILIZATION AND REGARDED POORLY!!!!!!1 Why the giant hate for Disney? Disney's wonderful world of color was a big part of my childhood. You one of those guys that will hate Disney forever for buying Pixar?Nope. Star Wars.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 1, 2017 3:22:40 GMT
Why the giant hate for Disney? Disney's wonderful world of color was a big part of my childhood. You one of those guys that will hate Disney forever for buying Pixar?Nope. Star Wars. For saving it from the bad taste the Prequels left in everyones' mouths?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 3:27:25 GMT
Nope. Star Wars. For saving it from the bad taste the Prequels left in everyones' mouths? You've never exactly answered why you bother arguing with colden. You know he's biased as hell towards the only Star Wars films he ever got to see in theaters as a child. He must have been very young to fall in love with Jar Jar the way he did.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 1, 2017 3:28:33 GMT
For saving it from the bad taste the Prequels left in everyones' mouths? You've never exactly answered why you bother arguing with colden. You know he's biased as hell towards the only Star Wars films he ever got to see in theaters as a child. He must have been very young to fall in love with Jar Jar the way he did. Eh, same reason I liked driving Wormhole as crazy as he got. Admittedly, I went a tad too far with him. EDIT: I'm a little surprised none of the DC-Nutters have called me out on having a DC Avatar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2017 3:32:19 GMT
You've never exactly answered why you bother arguing with colden. You know he's biased as hell towards the only Star Wars films he ever got to see in theaters as a child. He must have been very young to fall in love with Jar Jar the way he did. Eh, same reason I liked driving Wormhole as crazy as he got. Admittedly, I went a tad too far with him. EDIT: I'm a little surprised none of the DC-Nutters have called me out on having a DC Avatar. Ah, I see. I admit I like poking colden as well. The fact he's never figured out he's the only one getting riled up most of the time is hilarious. I'm still waiting for someone to notice that, too.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 1, 2017 3:48:08 GMT
Eh, same reason I liked driving Wormhole as crazy as he got. Admittedly, I went a tad too far with him. EDIT: I'm a little surprised none of the DC-Nutters have called me out on having a DC Avatar. Ah, I see. I admit I like poking colden as well. The fact he's never figured out he's the only one getting riled up most of the time is hilarious. I'm still waiting for someone to notice that, too. Yeah, the only thing funnier is when AH_Fan starts using the colored text. Gods and Monsters was great, it's what inspired me to do a Marvel version of it.
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