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Post by stargazer1682 on Apr 17, 2020 22:08:43 GMT
If the show really expects us to accept Ben as a permanent character and romance for Ciara, they seriously need to do more work on distancing him from the... what do you call it.... serial killer who strangled people?
It's bad enough when you have people who shouldn't be in the right, like Evan's scumbag lawyer, making perfectly valid points along the lines of how, while Ben might not committed the murder he was nearly executed for, he did commit a few he arguably should have been; or at least spent the rest of his life in prison. It's impossible to escape that fact about him, so long as it still is a fact;and especially when they keep bringing it up at every opportunity when they have him and Ciara talk endlessly about finding a job. Then to compound it you have him fly off the handle and start to strangle Evan and Ciara has to talk him down.
Obviously, a lot of these soap characters tend to have poor anger management skills and frequently do some pretty stupid things, but when you have an allegedly rehabilitated serial killer doing those things, it undermines any pretense that he actually has reformed.
It may be a cheat, but they seriously need to find a way to retcon his character and find out that he somehow never actually committed the murders he and everyone else thinks he's responsible for. They probably wouldn't be able to have it be Clyde, like I once thought they might try to do, but they had the perfect opportunity to pin it all on Jordan at any point before she died, and arguably still could. They could say she snuck into his apartment after each murder and confessed everything to him while he slept and the details seeped into his subconscious or something; and that's why, combined with his other, still actual mental health struggles, he convinced himself and others that he'd actually done it.
I still think another factor they could add in would be the revelation that Jordan was actually his mother after Clyde forced himself on her when she was a teenager. Cylde was her a step father, and we know he was violent with them growing up; it could add some layers to Jordan's background and explain how they mixed up Ben's DNA results for David's. Sure, Jordan and Ben are supposedly half siblings, but the screw up might make a little more sense if it actually turned out that Ben and David shared a mother.
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Post by leafs27 on Apr 20, 2020 15:26:55 GMT
I agree. Are we supposed to believe that Ciara is the only thing stopping Ben from murdering again?
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Post by flyboyla on Apr 21, 2020 15:56:49 GMT
The writers are too lazy to invest time and thought into this one. We’re just supposed to think that Ben and Ciara are this lovey dovey couple that we love watching in bed and taking showers. They are a beautiful couple to watch, but like you stated, they need to retcon this whole Ben as a serial murderer thing.
While they missed the opportunity with Jordan, they could go with a different route with Orpheus and his family. Even though he and Clyde escaped prison together, they could drum up more of a past between them that could have led to Orpheus setting up the entire stage of Ben as a serial killer. It just takes a little time investment and imagination.
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Post by leafs27 on Apr 22, 2020 17:22:43 GMT
I am starting to wonder if their lack of sets is prohibiting creating storytelling.
I was thinking about this the other day - the sets are all small or someone's home/hospital room/hotel room. What happened to Rafe's kitchen?
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Post by stargazer1682 on Apr 22, 2020 18:16:34 GMT
I am starting to wonder if their lack of sets is prohibiting creating storytelling. I was thinking about this the other day - the sets are all small or someone's home/hospital room/hotel room. What happened to Rafe's kitchen? I don't buy that. As a community theatre guy and a would be writer, having limited resources only forces you to get more creative. I've said a few times over the years, and maybe the initial setup and transition would be cost prohibitive, but I think from a set perspective they would tremendously benefit from going the Scrub route for filming production. Admittedly, it would also require them to change from the static three camera filming format and maybe get more creative with that, but overall I think it would work. The way the show Scrubs did it was to use an abandoned hospital, which they used for everything - not only was it their hospital set, they created their apartment sets, a lot of other internal and short sets, their production offices and dressing rooms. Scenes shot in the parking lot were the actual exterior of the building. Imagine if Days did something like that; and then built essentially a garden on the roof to shoot their outdoor park scenes. They could do so much without ever going more than 10 yards from their "studio". And as for the stories themselves, what they've come to now is taking the novel stories of 30-40 years ago and boiled them down to such a condensed, inane and tired consistency, that there's no substance to what's happening. It's like flyboyla said, where all we see Ciara and Ben do is have sex and take showers together. You have all these people sitting around talking endlessly about how strong two peoples love is. You can't even narrow down any one character who's had that conversation or about who, because they've all had it about one another half a dozen times (just this month, probably) I keep coming back to the core failure of the show, which is the fact that they have characters who are doctors and lawyers and police officers and powerful business executives and international spies and mob bosses; and the thing they choose to focus on are baby switches and... I don't know, unemployment sex? I kind of had to wrack my brain what else is actually going on right now. Sure, there are some stories that have potential, like Will and Sonny wanting to have another child or even Stefano extending his life with technology; which I think is an interesting concept and always thought it to be the natural evolution of his experiments with Ralph recreating Gina in Hope. But to do that so he can chase after 72 year old Marlena? Seriously, after 35-40 years and a second life, he can't move on? I mean, she looks good for her age; enough even that I was actually a little surprised that Deidre Hall is in fact over 70, but come on. This is supposed to be "days" of our lives, so for one thing, they need to pick up the fucking pace instead of having days drag on for weeks at a time. Do you remember back when they used to promote the show as "miss a day, miss a lot"? They also have to stop being so myopic and self-interested in their personal lives and balance that out with other thing. Show Rafe, Lani or Eli on a case, have Kayla see a patient - who she isn't fucking related to - who has a challenging illness she has to diagnose and treat; and maybe they recover, maybe they don't. Put John in charge of Salem based ISA team and send them on wild missions; even some of their destinations look suspiciously like the Sony backlot, at least it might be something mildly interesting. The important thing would be to find a balance between the different facets of their lives; because the weight of a tough police case or medical case, especially one that doesn't have a happy ending, effects the protagonists involve and informs their lives outside their job, their personal relationship, finding strength in some, deteriorating others. Look at medical professionals right now, it's a macrocosm of what they do even in the best of times; the commitment required, the time away from their families, the personal risk of potentially being exposed to something that might not only endanger their own health, but potentially their family too. And then there's the family aspect of the show that is so underplayed these days. The relationship drama is entirely who's wants to sleep with; arguably at times less tawdry than that, but still essentially the core premise. We have the Hope and Jennifer cousin dynamic, which is something that grew more out of convenience when they eventually became one of the few adults with Horton ties on the show; and Abigail and JJ had a good sibling bond, but they play so loose with the family connections, which I think would help ground the show and bring it back to its roots. Once upon a time it the show was about Tom and Alice Horton and their family; and for the most part it's okay that's branches out so much, but it's also lost some focus, because now it's now about so many people who are kind of loosely connected; some by blood, some because their families are friends. And of course, everything that happens in town (which varies in size from a quaint, small, small town; to a sprawling metropolitan city, with a horizon of skyscrapers) only happens to these people and caused by these people. The car accident that killed Adrienne wasn't a bad story concept, but it was totally unnecessary to have the person responsible someone we know; whether Will, Maggie or as it'll probably eventually turn out to be, Summer. I mean, what the odds? Just have it be some random person who was either careless or caused the accident through no fault of their own, because they lost control of the car or something. It's same issue I took with Chelsea causing Zack's death, which I still maintain all these years later that they pretty much established within the show that she couldn't have actually done, but never acknowledged; because they said her car was reported to be a mile away from the scene, before it was towed to Max's garage. They showed her stop almost instantly after hitting whatever it was she hit. That's a not insignificant distance travel between point A and point B, even if she was traveling 70 mph. In the town where I live a mile would take you about half way across town. But I digress...
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Post by stargazer1682 on Apr 22, 2020 19:16:09 GMT
Sorry for going on my semi-annual rant about what Days is doing wrong and how they should fix it. It just bugs the hell out of me that there are people getting paid to write this shit, when it should be a writer's dream to get to play in a sandbox this big. I always try to temper what I think I would do if I was in charge of writing the show, with the limitations they would probably say can and can't be done, but I honestly think they could do more than they are with the restrictions they have; they just don't try. The writers are stuck in this mentality of, "this is how a soap is written and we can't deviate from these tired conventions."
I mean, even with an actual runtime of 3-35 minutes without commercials, they're airing 5 days a week; which is at least 2 1/2 hours of content each week. That's more than three times what any conventional hour long drama (which averages 40-45 minutes of run time) gets in a single episode!
Do you know how often Star Trek did "bottle episodes" that took place entirely on their respective ships or utilizes existing sets; so they could save money by not having to build new sets? Or how often they got away with creating generic looking planets on a sound stage, with the right placement of some fake trees, rocks and a painted backdrop? People fawn over how shiny some of the new stuff looks, because they spent a lot more money on it than they used to; and completely ignore the shitty writing they churn out now...
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Post by leafs27 on Apr 22, 2020 19:26:28 GMT
LOl I don't know, I seriously think the lack of sets is prohibitive.
First of all they are SMALL. Like the new DiMera living room, yesterday with Tony, Anna, Gabi, Chad and Abigail in there it was TIGHT! The whole time Gab was blocking someone, and Abigail was standing IN FRONT of Chad, not beside him.
They don't have anywhere for people to go or gather except the hospital, the police station, Julie's Place, or the Pub. And really, how often in real life do you go to a police station or a hospital? NEVER?! Back in the day they had the Pub, the Cheatin' Heart, Chez Rouge, the Penthouse Grille, the Java Cafe, the Blue Note...they had TONS of places for the characters to socialize. Now people just saunter into the Kiriakis Mansion like it's a public park. It's ridiculous. And barely anyone actually has a house anymore! They had the loft, Marlena's penthouse, Roman's house, Abe's house, the Horton house, Jack and Jennifer/Hope's house, the mansions...Sami and Lucas's apartments...they had a lot of places. not everyone was living in a damn hotel room.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Apr 22, 2020 20:20:14 GMT
LOl I don't know, I seriously think the lack of sets is prohibitive. First of all they are SMALL. Like the new DiMera living room, yesterday with Tony, Anna, Gabi, Chad and Abigail in there it was TIGHT! The whole time Gab was blocking someone, and Abigail was standing IN FRONT of Chad, not beside him. They don't have anywhere for people to go or gather except the hospital, the police station, Julie's Place, or the Pub. And really, how often in real life do you go to a police station or a hospital? NEVER?! Back in the day they had the Pub, the Cheatin' Heart, Chez Rouge, the Penthouse Grille, the Java Cafe, the Blue Note...they had TONS of places for the characters to socialize. Now people just saunter into the Kiriakis Mansion like it's a public park. It's ridiculous. And barely anyone actually has a house anymore! They had the loft, Marlena's penthouse, Roman's house, Abe's house, the Horton house, Jack and Jennifer/Hope's house, the mansions...Sami and Lucas's apartments...they had a lot of places. not everyone was living in a damn hotel room. This is where they need to get more creative. I mean, what did they gain by making the primary Dimera mansion space so much shallower than it used to be? Surely they only gained a few feet, which I can't imagine helped them build another space behind that set. Maybe they did and they gained some additional footage somewhere going the other way, but I think more likely it gives them room for the passage way along the back, which they don't need. Even if they kept the current dimensions, said they walled off the "tunnels" and pushed the couch up against the wall, it would have open that space up more. Or they need to work on better blocking, because it's not like there wasn't space in the room for people to occupy; they could have found an excuse for some of the characters to be seated or for someone, like Tony and Anna, to be standing behind the couch and make the movement more dynamic. But I think that's a combination of wanting everyone all in one shot, to use the three camera filming, so they only have to do one take; combined with them not rehearsing anymore, which means they just go for it no matter how clumsy the take turns out to be. I'm ambivalent about whether they need both the Brady Pub and Julie's place. I know the two set different atmospheres and they arguably need more variety, but how do we even need to see these people getting lunch or having a drink? I think the police station and the hospital are key sets that could be worthwhile, if they just told the right stories. There are countless medical dramas and police procedurals that tell the stories of cops solving crimes and seeking justice and medical staff helping patient; and the police stations and hospitals they take place in are key, but the stories have to be written properly. Remember when JJ got promoted for rescuing the girl the girl who had apparently been kidnapped; yet the first time we heard anything about it was after he'd rescued the girl and was receiving his commendation/promotion? Or that time Johnny went missing and they found a body that turned out to be some other child's dead body they found and that was the end of that story. Because it was super important to instead focus on Sami and EJ having grief sex on the Dimera couch in response to that tragedy. They find all of these ridiculous excuses to bring the focus to places like the police station, and completely ignore the legitimate stories that should come out of those places. I may not go down to the police station very often, but with characters like Hope, Rafe, Eli and Lani being cops, they should be there quite often - but not dealing with their own personal drama; they should be there doing their jobs. Even if those stories are the backdrop for the rest of the drama going on in their lives, it balances things out; because without it, it doesn't make sense to visit the station as often. They make way too much use of the park and so-called Horton Square. For a city of indeterminate size, people seem to not only walk places way more than anyone I know, and within the same narrow area of town; they all apparently drive part way through town, only to get out and walk through parts of it. Like Sarah taking off with Mickey/Rebecca. She leaves the Kiriakis mansion by getting in her car, strapping Mickecca into her carseat, drives into town, then gets out at the Horton square, loads the kid up in the stroller, so she can push her through the square and through the park, on their way to the airport or wherever the Kiriakis private jet is. Who would do that? They try to redress certain sets for multiple purposes, which is a noble effort in creativity, but they go about in the laziest way possible. Like the blue room that has serves, among other things, as Hope/Rafe's office at the station. First off, why the hell would you paint that room blue? That space becomes so distinctive that it's obvious when they try to pass it off as some other place. Paint it white; according to some people at least, it might look a little bigger, but at the very least it'll look more generic and brighter. They could get even more creative with a standing multipurpose set. In the theatre we have something called a periactoid; it's three 4'x8' walls joined to form a triangle on wheels. With multiple periactoids we can paint each side for a different scene and for a scene change you just flip it around like old school Vanna White; put them side by side the right way, you can create the interior facade for three different rooms. Granted, for a filmed production like a tv show, this technique would probably need to be tweaked, but they could still build a descent size, multiple standing sets with wall panels you could turn to reconfigure it into looking like different sets, without needing to physically remodel the space. And depending on how accent or dress the walls, you could potentially combine them the different options to get even more locations out of one space. And they could be designed so that the walls could be re-positioned, moving doors or windows to be oriented differently, that would be a very dynamic set.
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