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Post by Arlon10 on May 10, 2020 23:41:31 GMT
When you have any notion near what "evidence" is or how to conduct a survey, I'll let you know. I was in a "forensics" league. I went to college for these things. Meanwhile a disturbing consensus is that there is no cure for your stupidity. But the issue wasn't whether I have any notion near what evidence is, the issue was whether you did, and you're doing your own mental gymnastics to avoid answering a very basic question about that notion. It's nice that you went to college, but I imagine your grades were quite poor if your response to every question was to avoid answering it like you're doing here. Also nice that you were in a forensics league, but don't sell yourself short: you also have a website and have won arguments against dictionaries! No, you are not "asking" a question. You are refusing to accept very good answers. That is very definitely not the same thing. I can't help but notice you still haven't listed any qualifications for "scientists" other than that their "work" is so far over your head.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 10, 2020 23:43:35 GMT
Leadership can be unpopular work, but someone has to do it. Clarity is often a blessing.Something that won't ever be found within the religious, nor political mindset. These are often interchangeable and born from the same wild and rancorous beast. Out of control, but disguised as control. That is not effective leadership. And yet you will know it when you see it.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on May 10, 2020 23:50:14 GMT
Something that won't ever be found within the religious, nor political mindset. These are often interchangeable and born from the same wild and rancorous beast. Out of control, but disguised as control. That is not effective leadership. And yet you will know it when you see it. And not often enough. Does it need deluded, duplicitous and self-serving idealistic notions to be effective?
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Post by clusium on May 10, 2020 23:54:19 GMT
Not necessarily. Religion is as much a culture as nationality, race, etc. People are raised in their religions, just at they are raised in their nationalities, etc. Sure, one may reject or convert to another, as an adult. But, there again, same with nationality. I disagree. Religion is a personal choice even if you are born into it. Nationality is objective not cultural ie where you were born, and culture although pervasive is 'optional', unlike your race which is a mixture of genes (often complex) however it is physical and objective. Both religion & nationality have one thing in common: What is passed down by one's parents. It is the parents choice to remain in one country or migrate to another. Same with religion: The choice to faithfully follow said religion; convert to another one; or none at all. Hence, religion is as much a culture as nationality; race; or even language. People take pride in each & every one of these.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 10, 2020 23:54:27 GMT
But the issue wasn't whether I have any notion near what evidence is, the issue was whether you did, and you're doing your own mental gymnastics to avoid answering a very basic question about that notion. It's nice that you went to college, but I imagine your grades were quite poor if your response to every question was to avoid answering it like you're doing here. Also nice that you were in a forensics league, but don't sell yourself short: you also have a website and have won arguments against dictionaries! No, you are not "asking" a question. You are refusing to accept very good answers. That is very definitely not the same thing. I can't help but notice you still haven't listed any qualifications for "scientists" other than that their "work" is so far over your head. Yes I am asking a question. You may have missed it, but it was the one that ended with that mark that looks like The Riddler's wardrobe. For your convenience, I will repeat the question: "How do you determine what information is relevant to a belief and how it's relevant?" What qualifications was I supposed to list for what scientists?  If you're referring to those polled, the qualification was that they graduated with a PhD in their field. What scientific field did you get your PhD in, Arlon?
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 10, 2020 23:57:24 GMT
I disagree. Religion is a personal choice even if you are born into it. Nationality is objective not cultural ie where you were born, and culture although pervasive is 'optional', unlike your race which is a mixture of genes (often complex) however it is physical and objective. Hence, religion is as much a culture as nationality; race; or even language. People take pride in each & every one of these. I buy that religion is a part of culture, but nationality and race are not cultures. Nationality is either where you're born or where you reside/have citizenship. Those places may have certain cultures, but they're not inextricable from each other (the US, as a nation, has a many different cultures, eg.). Likewise, certain races may tend to have certain cultures merely because they're in close proximity with those of the same race who share a culture, but there is no culture that everyone of the same race shares, so race is not a culture either.
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Post by goz on May 11, 2020 0:01:14 GMT
I disagree. Religion is a personal choice even if you are born into it. Nationality is objective not cultural ie where you were born, and culture although pervasive is 'optional', unlike your race which is a mixture of genes (often complex) however it is physical and objective. Both religion & nationality have one thing in common: What is passed down by one's parents. It is the parents choice to remain in one country or migrate to another. Same with religion: The choice to faithfully follow said religion; convert to another one; or none at all. Hence, religion is as much a culture as nationality; race; or even language. People take pride in each & every one of these. Again, I disagree. You have no choice over your race or nationality at birth, Neither change in your life even if you move. That is not the case with cultural things like adoption of a culture or religion. These are optional and personal choice ( for adults at least)
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Post by clusium on May 11, 2020 0:02:37 GMT
Hence, religion is as much a culture as nationality; race; or even language. People take pride in each & every one of these. I buy that religion is a part of culture, but nationality and race are not cultures. Nationality is either where you're born or where you reside/have citizenship. Those places may have certain cultures, but they're not inextricable from each other (the US, as a nation, has a many different cultures, eg.). Likewise, certain races may tend to have certain cultures merely because they're in close proximity with those of the same race who share a culture, but there is no culture that everyone of the same race shares, so race is not a culture either. Yes, nationality & race are both cultures. There are different types of culture: Religious; national, racial, even language, etc.
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Post by clusium on May 11, 2020 0:03:17 GMT
Both religion & nationality have one thing in common: What is passed down by one's parents. It is the parents choice to remain in one country or migrate to another. Same with religion: The choice to faithfully follow said religion; convert to another one; or none at all. Hence, religion is as much a culture as nationality; race; or even language. People take pride in each & every one of these. Again, I disagree. You have no choice over your race or nationality at birth, Neither change in your life even if you move. That is not the case with cultural things like adoption of a culture or religion. These are optional and personal choice ( for adults at least) Race, you have no choice over. Nationality, you do.
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Post by goz on May 11, 2020 0:05:33 GMT
I buy that religion is a part of culture, but nationality and race are not cultures. Nationality is either where you're born or where you reside/have citizenship. Those places may have certain cultures, but they're not inextricable from each other (the US, as a nation, has a many different cultures, eg.). Likewise, certain races may tend to have certain cultures merely because they're in close proximity with those of the same race who share a culture, but there is no culture that everyone of the same race shares, so race is not a culture either. Yes, nationality & race are both cultures. There are different types of culture: Religious; national, racial, even language, etc. No. That is not correct.
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Post by goz on May 11, 2020 0:07:17 GMT
Again, I disagree. You have no choice over your race or nationality at birth, Neither change in your life even if you move. That is not the case with cultural things like adoption of a culture or religion. These are optional and personal choice ( for adults at least) Race, you have no choice over. Nationality, you do. No. Your nationality is where you were born. You do not have a choice. You can choose to change lit like you choose whether to adopt or continue a religious choice.
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Post by clusium on May 11, 2020 0:13:06 GMT
Race, you have no choice over. Nationality, you do. No. Your nationality is where you were born. You do not have a choice. You can choose to change lit like you choose whether to adopt or continue a religious choice. Yes, nationality is where you are born. However, why are you born where you are born? Because it was the parents' choice to live in the particular country, where they chose to have you. Same with religion. If it is your parents' religion, & they choose to pass it down to you, then you are that religion also, unless you decide against it.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 11, 2020 0:15:40 GMT
I buy that religion is a part of culture, but nationality and race are not cultures. Nationality is either where you're born or where you reside/have citizenship. Those places may have certain cultures, but they're not inextricable from each other (the US, as a nation, has a many different cultures, eg.). Likewise, certain races may tend to have certain cultures merely because they're in close proximity with those of the same race who share a culture, but there is no culture that everyone of the same race shares, so race is not a culture either. Yes, nationality & race are both cultures. There are different types of culture: Religious; national, racial, even language, etc. You saying it's so doesn't make it so. How is nationality and race a culture? What is a culture that all black or white people share? What is a culture that everyone in the US shares?
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Post by clusium on May 11, 2020 0:28:58 GMT
Yes, nationality & race are both cultures. There are different types of culture: Religious; national, racial, even language, etc. You saying it's so doesn't make it so. How is nationality and race a culture? What is a culture that all black or white people share? What is a culture that everyone in the US shares? Culture is civilization. Nationality is civilization by linking people by country; race is civilization by linking people by hereditary colour of skin.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 11, 2020 0:35:00 GMT
You saying it's so doesn't make it so. How is nationality and race a culture? What is a culture that all black or white people share? What is a culture that everyone in the US shares? Culture is civilization. Nationality is civilization by linking people by country; race is civilization by linking people by hereditary colour of skin. No, civilization is a certain stage of social and cultural development, while culture are the values, beliefs, customs, practices, arts, achievements, etc. of any particular group within civilization. The problem is that you can have groups within a nation, or people of any given skin color, with wildly different values, beliefs, customs, practices, arts, achievements, etc. There is no single "white" or "black" culture, just as there is no single "American" culture. These groups are too large to pin a single culture to.
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Post by clusium on May 11, 2020 0:53:11 GMT
Culture is civilization. Nationality is civilization by linking people by country; race is civilization by linking people by hereditary colour of skin. No, civilization is a certain stage of social and cultural development, while culture are the values, beliefs, customs, practices, arts, achievements, etc. of any particular group within civilization. The problem is that you can have groups within a nation, or people of any given skin color, with wildly different values, beliefs, customs, practices, arts, achievements, etc. There is no single "white" or "black" culture, just as there is no single "American" culture. These groups are too large to pin a single culture to. Yes. There is White culture; Black culture; etc. Yes, there is American culture; Canadian culture; etc.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 11, 2020 0:59:36 GMT
No, civilization is a certain stage of social and cultural development, while culture are the values, beliefs, customs, practices, arts, achievements, etc. of any particular group within civilization. The problem is that you can have groups within a nation, or people of any given skin color, with wildly different values, beliefs, customs, practices, arts, achievements, etc. There is no single "white" or "black" culture, just as there is no single "American" culture. These groups are too large to pin a single culture to. Yes. There is White culture; Black culture; etc. Yes, there is American culture; Canadian culture; etc. OK, then what is it? Please, illuminate what culture all black/white people share, or what culture all Americans/Canadians share.
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Post by clusium on May 11, 2020 1:12:35 GMT
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 11, 2020 1:26:52 GMT
You seem to be conflating "cultures that originated with" white/black people or Americans/Candadians with "black/white/American/Canadian" culture. They are not the same thing. Those links are discussing the former, not the latter. Who would deny the former? As an example, you can say jazz originated in American black culture, was mostly popular with American black people; but now, the vast majority of black people (or any people) do not listen to jazz, and jazz is played by people of all colors all over the world. So to say jazz is "American culture" or "black culture" now is pretty silly. Historically it might've been, but, even historically, jazz was not listened to by all black people everywhere, nor by all Americans.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 11, 2020 1:47:18 GMT
No, you are not "asking" a question. You are refusing to accept very good answers. That is very definitely not the same thing. I can't help but notice you still haven't listed any qualifications for "scientists" other than that their "work" is so far over your head. Yes I am asking a question. You may have missed it, but it was the one that ended with that mark that looks like The Riddler's wardrobe. For your convenience, I will repeat the question: "How do you determine what information is relevant to a belief and how it's relevant?" What qualifications was I supposed to list for what scientists? If you're referring to those polled, the qualification was that they graduated with a PhD in their field. What scientific field did you get your PhD in, Arlon? No, that was not listed as a qualification in either survey. Many people especially today work in "science" without a Phd, such as the "medical professionals" (nurses) we're supposed to be thanking so much now. No, it doesn't take a Phd to know we're not supposed to be coughing all over each other or drinking out of the milk carton. I know several people in real life who have jobs where they just read the output of various equipment they had nothing to do with building. There's no shame in it, those are just the jobs that are available. In my own survey I noticed that several people on this board as well as many people in the United States generally often mistake statistical analysis often used in medicine for science ceteris paribus. Some don't admit it anymore after being corrected. By the way, that is another thing you don't need a Phd to understand. The way to determine relevance of information depends entirely on the circumstances. I discussed an example of relevant information in another message that you perhaps have not read. If you have to ask such a question you apparently do not understand the definition of relevance. "The quality or state of being closely connected or appropriate" -- some online dictionary.
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