|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 4:19:00 GMT
1) I just said I didn't think any of the major religions was better than any other. I guess you missed that. 2) I already said religion, faith and beliefs are personal decisions. Did you forget? 3) I also already said (in a post to goz) the intelligent believer knows the difference between faith and knowledge. People believe that which they do not know. And know what they can't believe. 4) Yep. Some irreputable Christian denominations (rather small and fringe) actually believe in prayer over medical science. That is not a accepted belief by the majority of Christians, or the Christian religion in general. It's a lunatic fringe. 1) The issue isn't about "best," the issue about which is one is RIGHT. 2) Of course they're personal decisions. What does that have to do with whether or not they're true, or whether or not there can be a God that rewards unbelief? 3) I don't believe anything which I don't know. In fact, I'm loathe to use the word "know" at all. Instead, I have confidence levels based on the probability of a given proposition, which itself based on numerous evidential factors. Faith, AFAICT, is just when people take something for which they have poor (if any) evidence, and choose to have more confidence in its truthfulness than is warranted by the evidence. This isn't done for robust rational/philosophical/epistemological reasons, but because of various cognitive biases that are more concerned with feeling satisfied with a belief than knowing the truth. 4) I'd argue the "lunatic fringe," in this case, are merely the ones taking The Bible that their religion is based on seriously. 1) Nobody knows which one is "right". Just like the existence of God, there's no way to tell. 2) There is no way to tell. 3) You don't know the definitions of "know" and "believe". We can only know what can be proven. You can't believe what you know. We can only believe that which can't be proven. You can't know that which you believe. That's why intelligent believers say they believe in God. And not they know He exist. 4) Majority says - those who believe "they don't need medical science, just prayer" are part of a small lunatic fringe.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 15, 2020 4:21:46 GMT
Then you would logically have to agree that there is MUCH less to mock! No. There's more. The lack of intelligence, knowledge and depth just for starters. By the way goz, what's happening where you live as far as the Coronavirus? We just finished two months of a state governor imposed "Stay at Home Order". We're entering phase one of a gradual increase in social and business activity. Are you guys social distancing and self isolating? Is there any government request, order, mandate or restriction? Or is it business as usual? Despite in your first sentence calling me for a lack of 'intelligence, knowledge and depth '... I will treat you as the lovely person that you probably are and answer your questions. We are so lucky in Australia that we have been able to almost completely ( nearly as well as New Zealand) and have flattened the curve to almost zero. We had no new cases and then opened thins up a little and now have 8 in my state www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/Unlike other countries we are able to slowly and carefully re-open based on these good figures. Yes we have had 2 months of strict lockdown and yes it was hard, especially as a little like USA Australians are pretty independent. HOWEVER we did it and hopefully will reap the rewards. Because we are a socialist democracy with universal health care and a strong social security...our government just strengthened those areas and gave welfare to the new jobless ofr 3 months and were able to martial our health care system to cope. Our government also got onto it early and at that time had the confidence of the Chinese government so that we were the first to be trusted with the information to find the genome of the Covid-19 virus( things had since gone sour as we have demanded an independent inquiry into the virus) Don't mean to sound smug as I have a daughter in France , and a niece in New York who have survived had the virus and they are now well.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 4:26:14 GMT
No. There's more. The lack of intelligence, knowledge and depth just for starters. By the way goz, what's happening where you live as far as the Coronavirus? We just finished two months of a state governor imposed "Stay at Home Order". We're entering phase one of a gradual increase in social and business activity. Are you guys social distancing and self isolating? Is there any government request, order, mandate or restriction? Or is it business as usual? Despite in your first sentence calling me for a lack of 'intelligence, knowledge and depth '... I will treat you as the lovely person that you probably are and answer your questions. We are so lucky in Australia that we have been able to almost completely ( nearly as well as New Zealand) and have flattened the curve to almost zero. We had no new cases and then opened thins up a little and now have 8 in my state www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/Unlike other countries we are able to slowly and carefully re-open based on these good figures. Yes we have had 2 months of strict lockdown and yes it was hard, especially as a little like USA Australians are pretty independent. HOWEVER we did it and hopefully will reap the rewards. Because we are a socialist democracy with universal health care and a strong social security...our government just strengthened those areas and gave welfare to the new jobless ofr 3 months and were able to martial our health care system to cope. Our government also got onto it early and at that time had the confidence of the Chinese government so that we were the first to be trusted with the information to find the genome of the Covid-19 virus( things had since gone sour as we have demanded an independent inquiry into the virus) Don't mean to sound smug as I have a daughter in France , and a niece in New York who have survived had the virus and they are now well. I'm glad y'all are doing well.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 4:34:06 GMT
No. There's more. The lack of intelligence, knowledge and depth just for starters. By the way goz, what's happening where you live as far as the Coronavirus? We just finished two months of a state governor imposed "Stay at Home Order". We're entering phase one of a gradual increase in social and business activity. Are you guys social distancing and self isolating? Is there any government request, order, mandate or restriction? Or is it business as usual? Despite in your first sentence calling me for a lack of 'intelligence, knowledge and depth '... I will treat you as the lovely person that you probably are and answer your questions. We are so lucky in Australia that we have been able to almost completely ( nearly as well as New Zealand) and have flattened the curve to almost zero. We had no new cases and then opened thins up a little and now have 8 in my state www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/Unlike other countries we are able to slowly and carefully re-open based on these good figures. Yes we have had 2 months of strict lockdown and yes it was hard, especially as a little like USA Australians are pretty independent. HOWEVER we did it and hopefully will reap the rewards. Because we are a socialist democracy with universal health care and a strong social security...our government just strengthened those areas and gave welfare to the new jobless ofr 3 months and were able to martial our health care system to cope. Our government also got onto it early and at that time had the confidence of the Chinese government so that we were the first to be trusted with the information to find the genome of the Covid-19 virus( things had since gone sour as we have demanded an independent inquiry into the virus) Don't mean to sound smug as I have a daughter in France , and a niece in New York who have survived had the virus and they are now well. How did you guys flatten the curve? We did well in Louisiana compared to the rest of the United States. We had a great governor and government response. We have more socialized medicine here than in other states. We loaded up on testing. We've flattened our curve also. But not down to zero. It's just going down and it's way below the medical system's capacity to handle.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 15, 2020 4:34:48 GMT
1) The issue isn't about "best," the issue about which is one is RIGHT. 2) Of course they're personal decisions. What does that have to do with whether or not they're true, or whether or not there can be a God that rewards unbelief? 3) I don't believe anything which I don't know. In fact, I'm loathe to use the word "know" at all. Instead, I have confidence levels based on the probability of a given proposition, which itself based on numerous evidential factors. Faith, AFAICT, is just when people take something for which they have poor (if any) evidence, and choose to have more confidence in its truthfulness than is warranted by the evidence. This isn't done for robust rational/philosophical/epistemological reasons, but because of various cognitive biases that are more concerned with feeling satisfied with a belief than knowing the truth. 4) I'd argue the "lunatic fringe," in this case, are merely the ones taking The Bible that their religion is based on seriously. 1) Nobody knows which one is "right". Just like the existence of God, there's no way to tell. 2) There is no way to tell. 3) You don't know the definitions of "know" and "believe". We can only know what can be proven. You can't believe what you know. We can only believe that which can't be proven. You can't believe what you know. That's why intelligent believers say they believe in God. And not they know He exist. 4) Majority says - those who believe "they don't need medical science, just prayer" are part of a small lunatic fringe. 1) So your approach to epistemology is "nobody knows if any of them is right, or if anyone is right, so I'm just gonna pick this one?" And you claim to have studied philosophy? 2) There is a way to assess the evidence rationally. 3) Considering I've actually read quite a bit of epistemological philosophy I know how to define "know" and "believe" better than most, and you aren't getting close. Knowledge is typically defined as a justified true belief. What counts as "justified" is probably what you define as "proved" (though they are not necessarily the same thing). Though the entire definition, which has stood in some form for centuries, ran into issues in the 20th century in the form of Gettier problems, which are likely insurmountable. I've suggested it's because the inclusion of "truth" creates a Godel-like problem of self-reference that can always be messed with by proposing a god-like view. The best way to overcome this is to ditch "truth" (except colloquially) and just rigorously define "justification," which doesn't necessarily mean "proof," but simply "evidence beyond reasonable doubt," which in itself is determined and modeled ideally by Solomonoff Induction. Of course, having studied philosophy, I'm sure you knew all this already, right? I also don't think there's a fundamental difference between "belief" and "knowledge." If anything, knowledge is just a belief that you have such high confidence in that you'd be shocked to find out is wrong. The only difference between "I believe I have ham in the fridge" and "I know I have ham in the fridge" is the level of confidence I place in the claim. So why not just ditch both terms and talk about confidence levels at all times? 4) The majority are at odds with the Holy Book upon which their religion is based. Which isn't surprising given that religious is primarily cultural.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 4:41:24 GMT
1) Nobody knows which one is "right". Just like the existence of God, there's no way to tell. 2) There is no way to tell. 3) You don't know the definitions of "know" and "believe". We can only know what can be proven. You can't believe what you know. We can only believe that which can't be proven. You can't believe what you know. That's why intelligent believers say they believe in God. And not they know He exist. 4) Majority says - those who believe "they don't need medical science, just prayer" are part of a small lunatic fringe. 1) So your approach to epistemology is "nobody knows if any of them is right, or if anyone is right, so I'm just gonna pick this one?" And you claim to have studied philosophy? 2) There is a way to assess the evidence rationally. 3) Considering I've actually read quite a bit of epistemological philosophy I know how to define "know" and "believe" better than most, and you aren't getting close. Knowledge is typically defined as a justified true belief. What counts as "justified" is probably what you define as "proved" (though they are not necessarily the same thing). Though the entire definition, which has stood in some form for centuries, ran into issues in the 20th century in the form of Gettier problems, which are likely insurmountable. I've suggested it's because the inclusion of "truth" creates a Godel-like problem of self-reference that can always be messed with by proposing a god-like view. The best way to overcome this is to ditch "truth" (except colloquially) and just rigorously define "justification," which doesn't necessarily mean "proof," but simply "evidence beyond reasonable doubt," which in itself is determined and modeled ideally by Solomonoff Induction. Of course, having studied philosophy, I'm sure you knew all this already, right? I also don't think there's a fundamental difference between "belief" and "knowledge." If anything, knowledge is just a belief that you have such high confidence in that you'd be shocked to find out is wrong. The only difference between "I believe I have ham in the fridge" and "I know I have ham in the fridge" is the level of confidence I place in the claim. So why not just ditch both terms and talk about confidence levels at all times? 4) The majority are at odds with the Holy Book upon which their religion is based. Which isn't surprising given that religious is primarily cultural. 1) I was raised in a Christian denomination. That's what I know best. That's the best choice for me. Neither is better. I know good Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists. It's not the religion. It's the interpretation and application. 2) Yes, and I have. 3) You're wrong. "Knowing and believing are different words that are often used in religious teachings across the world. 'Knowing' means that you possess knowledge, are shrewd, suggestive or deliberate. On the other hand, 'believing' means that you have accepted something to be true, or you are confident and have trust in something."www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-knowing-and-believing/
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 15, 2020 4:43:00 GMT
Despite in your first sentence calling me for a lack of 'intelligence, knowledge and depth '... I will treat you as the lovely person that you probably are and answer your questions. We are so lucky in Australia that we have been able to almost completely ( nearly as well as New Zealand) and have flattened the curve to almost zero. We had no new cases and then opened thins up a little and now have 8 in my state www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/australia/Unlike other countries we are able to slowly and carefully re-open based on these good figures. Yes we have had 2 months of strict lockdown and yes it was hard, especially as a little like USA Australians are pretty independent. HOWEVER we did it and hopefully will reap the rewards. Because we are a socialist democracy with universal health care and a strong social security...our government just strengthened those areas and gave welfare to the new jobless ofr 3 months and were able to martial our health care system to cope. Our government also got onto it early and at that time had the confidence of the Chinese government so that we were the first to be trusted with the information to find the genome of the Covid-19 virus( things had since gone sour as we have demanded an independent inquiry into the virus) Don't mean to sound smug as I have a daughter in France , and a niece in New York who have survived had the virus and they are now well. How did you guys flatten the curve? We did well in Louisiana compared to the rest of the United States. We had a great governor and government response. We have more socialized medicine here than in other states. We loaded up on testing. We've flattened our curve also. But not down to zero. It's just going down and it's way below the medical system's capacity to handle. It is partly due to our geography being remote from the rest of the world though not entirely as we have a huge and welcome Chinese population here. As I said, our government got onto it early as the Chines scientists trust our scientists with information possibly even before the WHO ( even though the letter in the Lancet is pretty much at the same time...I know this as my sis is a DNA scientist) AND our government was pretty clear and coherent in telling everyone what the fact were. Our biggest problem was the cruise ships ( they are called Covid-19 petri dishes) that docked here and let people out into the community. ( and back to overseas destination including USA) Without them we would have had about one third the exposure. ALSO the big thing which you can do with manageable numbers, is contact tracing and testing. The other BIG community affected was the nursing homes. Sadly...where it only takes one contact to go through most of the old people evne and especially if it is staff.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 15, 2020 4:58:15 GMT
1) So your approach to epistemology is "nobody knows if any of them is right, or if anyone is right, so I'm just gonna pick this one?" And you claim to have studied philosophy? 2) There is a way to assess the evidence rationally. 3) Considering I've actually read quite a bit of epistemological philosophy I know how to define "know" and "believe" better than most, and you aren't getting close. Knowledge is typically defined as a justified true belief. What counts as "justified" is probably what you define as "proved" (though they are not necessarily the same thing). Though the entire definition, which has stood in some form for centuries, ran into issues in the 20th century in the form of Gettier problems, which are likely insurmountable. I've suggested it's because the inclusion of "truth" creates a Godel-like problem of self-reference that can always be messed with by proposing a god-like view. The best way to overcome this is to ditch "truth" (except colloquially) and just rigorously define "justification," which doesn't necessarily mean "proof," but simply "evidence beyond reasonable doubt," which in itself is determined and modeled ideally by Solomonoff Induction. Of course, having studied philosophy, I'm sure you knew all this already, right? I also don't think there's a fundamental difference between "belief" and "knowledge." If anything, knowledge is just a belief that you have such high confidence in that you'd be shocked to find out is wrong. The only difference between "I believe I have ham in the fridge" and "I know I have ham in the fridge" is the level of confidence I place in the claim. So why not just ditch both terms and talk about confidence levels at all times? 4) The majority are at odds with the Holy Book upon which their religion is based. Which isn't surprising given that religious is primarily cultural. 1) I was raised in a Christian denomination. That's what I know best. That's the best choice for me. Neither is better. I know good Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists. It's not the religion. It's the interpretation and application. 2) Yes, and I have. 3) You're wrong. "Knowing and believing are different words that are often used in religious teachings across the world. 'Knowing' means that you possess knowledge, are shrewd, suggestive or deliberate. On the other hand, 'believing' means that you have accepted something to be true, or you are confident and have trust in something."www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-knowing-and-believing/1) Yes, you've said that before, and again you seem to be ignoring what I said/asked to simply repeat yourself. 2) Then why don't you share with the class how you've done so. 3) "You're wrong" is not an argument. You post a quote from a random website from a random author. How about checking out the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-analysis/At this point I'm calling bullshit on you actually knowing any philosophy. Nobody even with a passing knowledge of the subject would say "I'm wrong" for repeating both the most common definition of knowledge in philosophy, as well as the current problems with the definition. Hell, your link doesn't even really address what I said: "knowing means you possess knowledge?" Well way to be redundantly redundant. And how do you distinguish "possessing knowledge" of something, from "believing" that something, from "believing you possess knowledge of that something?"
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 5:05:41 GMT
How did you guys flatten the curve? We did well in Louisiana compared to the rest of the United States. We had a great governor and government response. We have more socialized medicine here than in other states. We loaded up on testing. We've flattened our curve also. But not down to zero. It's just going down and it's way below the medical system's capacity to handle. It is partly due to our geography being remote from the rest of the world though not entirely as we have a huge and welcome Chinese population here. As I said, our government got onto it early as the Chines scientists trust our scientists with information possibly even before the WHO ( even though the letter in the Lancet is pretty much at the same time...I know this as my sis is a DNA scientist) AND our government was pretty clear and coherent in telling everyone what the fact were. Our biggest problem was the cruise ships ( they are called Covid-19 petri dishes) that docked here and let people out into the community. ( and back to overseas destination including USA) Without them we would have had about one third the exposure. ALSO the big thing which you can do with manageable numbers, is contact tracing and testing. The other BIG community affected was the nursing homes. Sadly...where it only takes one contact to go through most of the old people evne and especially if it is staff. I agree about those cruise ships. We have a cruise ship port here in New Orleans. We were having illnesses spreading through cruise ships before the Coronavirus pandemic. We just went through Mardi Gras. We had a big initial outbreak. But we got it under control quickly. We have a big medical industry here in New Orleans. The governor, the mayor and the parish presidents worked together and shut everything down. We also have an efficient unemployment office that effectively got money to those locked out of their jobs.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 15, 2020 5:14:44 GMT
It is partly due to our geography being remote from the rest of the world though not entirely as we have a huge and welcome Chinese population here. As I said, our government got onto it early as the Chines scientists trust our scientists with information possibly even before the WHO ( even though the letter in the Lancet is pretty much at the same time...I know this as my sis is a DNA scientist) AND our government was pretty clear and coherent in telling everyone what the fact were. Our biggest problem was the cruise ships ( they are called Covid-19 petri dishes) that docked here and let people out into the community. ( and back to overseas destination including USA) Without them we would have had about one third the exposure. ALSO the big thing which you can do with manageable numbers, is contact tracing and testing. The other BIG community affected was the nursing homes. Sadly...where it only takes one contact to go through most of the old people evne and especially if it is staff. I agree about those cruise ships. We have a cruise ship port here in New Orleans. We were having illnesses spreading through cruise ships before the Coronavirus pandemic. We just went through Mardi Gras. We had a big initial outbreak. But we got it under control quickly. We have a big medical industry here in New Orleans. The governor, the mayor and the parish presidents worked together and shut everything down. We also have an efficient unemployment office that effectively got money to those locked out of their jobs. I hope you will take this in the spirit that it is meant, however I wish that USA had a leader who was as competent as many of the State Governors have proven.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 5:18:56 GMT
1) I was raised in a Christian denomination. That's what I know best. That's the best choice for me. Neither is better. I know good Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists. It's not the religion. It's the interpretation and application. 2) Yes, and I have. 3) You're wrong. "Knowing and believing are different words that are often used in religious teachings across the world. 'Knowing' means that you possess knowledge, are shrewd, suggestive or deliberate. On the other hand, 'believing' means that you have accepted something to be true, or you are confident and have trust in something."www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-knowing-and-believing/1) Yes, you've said that before, and again you seem to be ignoring what I said/asked to simply repeat yourself. 2) Then why don't you share with the class how you've done so. 3) "You're wrong" is not an argument. You post a quote from a random website from a random author. How about checking out the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-analysis/At this point I'm calling bullshit on you actually knowing any philosophy. Nobody even with a passing knowledge of the subject would say "I'm wrong" for repeating both the most common definition of knowledge in philosophy, as well as the current problems with the definition. Hell, your link doesn't even really address what I said: "knowing means you possess knowledge?" Well way to be redundantly redundant. And how do you distinguish "possessing knowledge" of something, from "believing" that something, from "believing you possess knowledge of that something?" 2) I studied religion. I was a believer, an Atheist and an agnostic. Being a believer worked best for me. Like I said, it's a personal decision everyone should make for themselves. I respect your decision to be an Atheist if that's your decision.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 15, 2020 5:23:08 GMT
1) Yes, you've said that before, and again you seem to be ignoring what I said/asked to simply repeat yourself. 2) Then why don't you share with the class how you've done so. 3) "You're wrong" is not an argument. You post a quote from a random website from a random author. How about checking out the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-analysis/At this point I'm calling bullshit on you actually knowing any philosophy. Nobody even with a passing knowledge of the subject would say "I'm wrong" for repeating both the most common definition of knowledge in philosophy, as well as the current problems with the definition. Hell, your link doesn't even really address what I said: "knowing means you possess knowledge?" Well way to be redundantly redundant. And how do you distinguish "possessing knowledge" of something, from "believing" that something, from "believing you possess knowledge of that something?" 2) I studied religion. I was a believer, an Atheist and an agnostic. Being a believer worked best for me. Like I said, it's a personal decision everyone should make for themselves. I respect your decision to be an Atheist if that's your decision.  believer lite
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 5:29:21 GMT
I agree about those cruise ships. We have a cruise ship port here in New Orleans. We were having illnesses spreading through cruise ships before the Coronavirus pandemic. We just went through Mardi Gras. We had a big initial outbreak. But we got it under control quickly. We have a big medical industry here in New Orleans. The governor, the mayor and the parish presidents worked together and shut everything down. We also have an efficient unemployment office that effectively got money to those locked out of their jobs. I hope you will take this in the spirit that it is meant, however I wish that USA had a leader who was as competent as many of the State Governors have proven. I agree. He's a moron. He is reluctantly suggesting everyone wear a mask. Everyone in DC and the whitehouse is wearing a mask. But he won't. He's supposed to be a leader who sets an example. You can see his medical advisors cringe everytime he speaks. He's trying to appease his "basket of deplorables" base. Those are the ones refusing to wear masks, and protesting the lockdown --- with guns.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 15, 2020 5:31:58 GMT
1) Yes, you've said that before, and again you seem to be ignoring what I said/asked to simply repeat yourself. 2) Then why don't you share with the class how you've done so. 3) "You're wrong" is not an argument. You post a quote from a random website from a random author. How about checking out the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy: plato.stanford.edu/entries/knowledge-analysis/At this point I'm calling bullshit on you actually knowing any philosophy. Nobody even with a passing knowledge of the subject would say "I'm wrong" for repeating both the most common definition of knowledge in philosophy, as well as the current problems with the definition. Hell, your link doesn't even really address what I said: "knowing means you possess knowledge?" Well way to be redundantly redundant. And how do you distinguish "possessing knowledge" of something, from "believing" that something, from "believing you possess knowledge of that something?" 2) I studied religion. I was a believer, an Atheist and an agnostic. Being a believer worked best for me. Like I said, it's a personal decision everyone should make for themselves. I respect your decision to be an Atheist if that's your decision. Again, fine for you, but saying you "studied religion" and found being a believer worked best for you isn't showing how you rationally assessed the evidence. It's nice that you respect my decision to be an atheist, but right now you're on a forum for discussing religion and religious beliefs, and you're not adding much to the discussion by simply repeating "I chose this, it works best for me."
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 5:33:49 GMT
2) I studied religion. I was a believer, an Atheist and an agnostic. Being a believer worked best for me. Like I said, it's a personal decision everyone should make for themselves. I respect your decision to be an Atheist if that's your decision.  believer lite What about you? I'm assuming you're an Atheist. What do you believe?
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 5:39:04 GMT
2) I studied religion. I was a believer, an Atheist and an agnostic. Being a believer worked best for me. Like I said, it's a personal decision everyone should make for themselves. I respect your decision to be an Atheist if that's your decision. Again, fine for you, but saying you "studied religion" and found being a believer worked best for you isn't showing how you rationally assessed the evidence. It's nice that you respect my decision to be an atheist, but right now you're on a forum for discussing religion and religious beliefs, and you're not adding much to the discussion by simply repeating "I chose this, it works best for me." What is more rational than trying three things and choosing what's best? Just studying all religions and philosophy is not necessarily the best way. Real experience is often better than just books.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 15, 2020 5:42:25 GMT
 believer lite What about you? I'm assuming you're an Atheist. What do you believe? If I need to categorise my belief in the terms acceptable on here I am an agnostic atheist with a respect for Buddhist philosophy owing to their sense of personal responsibility in this life, rather than a dependence on the will of any god.
|
|
|
|
Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 15, 2020 5:44:32 GMT
Again, fine for you, but saying you "studied religion" and found being a believer worked best for you isn't showing how you rationally assessed the evidence. It's nice that you respect my decision to be an atheist, but right now you're on a forum for discussing religion and religious beliefs, and you're not adding much to the discussion by simply repeating "I chose this, it works best for me." What is more rational than trying three things and choosing what's best? Just studying all religions and philosophy is not necessarily the best way. Real experience is often better than just books. What makes you think what seemed best to you is rationally determined at all? Human brains are a bundle of biases and heuristics that make choices based not on reasoning most of the time but feelings and intuitions, neither of which produce reliable truths. My mom smokes because it feels "best" to her, it temporarily relieves pain and anxiety; but science, actual facts and reason, shows that smoking harms your health and has far worse long-term consequences than whatever brief relief it might also provide. So saying you "tried" these things and chose what was "best" isn't really saying much. It's just the expression of a feeling. There's nothing rational about it. EDIT: I'll add that your own religious upbringing had already biased you towards believing that already. You had no good reasons or evidence to believe, but indoctrination is a powerful thing and can do for some what no amount of facts and reasoning can undo.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 5:45:52 GMT
What about you? I'm assuming you're an Atheist. What do you believe? If I need to categorise my belief in the terms acceptable on here I am an agnostic atheist with a respect for Buddhist philosophy owing to their sense of personal responsibility in this life, rather than a dependence on the will of any god. That's fine. I used to be that, sans the Buddhism. Then I grew up. But, I'm probably a lot older than you are.
|
|
|
|
Post by movieliker on May 15, 2020 5:48:44 GMT
What is more rational than trying three things and choosing what's best? Just studying all religions and philosophy is not necessarily the best way. Real experience is often better than just books. What makes you think what seemed best to you is rationally determined at all? Human brains are a bundle of biases and heuristics that make choices based not on reasoning most of the time but feelings and intuitions, neither of which produce reliable truths. My mom smokes because it feels "best" to her, it temporarily relieves pain and anxiety; but science, actual facts and reason, shows that smoking harms your health and has far worse long-term consequences than whatever brief relief it might also provide. So saying you "tried" these things and chose what was "best" isn't really saying much. It's just the expression of a feeling. There's nothing rational about it. EDIT: I'll add that your own religious upbringing had already biased you towards believing that already. You had no good reasons or evidence to believe, but indoctrination is a powerful thing and can do for some what no amount of facts and reasoning can undo. I believe the number one goal is the maximum attainment of happiness. And the maximum avoidance of unhappiness. Believing in God makes me happy. Not believing doesn't work as well. Seems logical to me.
|
|