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Post by Salzmank on Apr 29, 2017 2:35:06 GMT
Just had an idea for something of a game in which some of the folks here may be interested. Basically, the concept is "recasting the classics," as the subject line says. You pick any movie in which you think some other actor or actress could have done the role better and then put down the actor you'd like in the part and the actor who was actually in the part (or the other way around). It has be someone who could have actually taken the part--i.e., no "Brad Pitt in Gone with the Wind" kind of scenario, breaking the temporal barrier. Besides that, I'm fairly lax with the rules. Someone else told me this hypothetical recasting choice, so it's nothing clever on my part (indeed, it's what gave me the idea for this game): The great Edward Everett Horton instead of Ernest Truex
 as Roy V. Bensinger in Howard Hawks's otherwise perfect (IMO) His Girl Friday. (Horton had played the role in the earlier adaptation, Lewis Milestone's The Front Page.) OK, who wants to keep this going?
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Post by mikef6 on Apr 29, 2017 4:44:02 GMT
I’m going to have to think about your unique criterea for a little bit. Until then, here is something to think about:
In the distant past, on the old boards there were some similar - but not the same – kind of challenges. At least 12-15 years ago we had a regular on the Classic Board who would ask “What if some modern films had actually been made during the period in which it was set. For example, what if “Gosford Park” (2001) had been made in 1932, the year of its setting? Here was my response:
Upstairs Dame May Whitty as Constance, Countess of Trentham (Maggie Smith) Lionel Barrymore as Sir William McCordle (Michael Gambon) Norma Shearer as Lady Sylvia McCordle (Kristin Scott Thomas) Reginald Owen as Raymond, Baron Stockbridge (Charles Dance) Ivor Norvello as Himself (Jeremy Northham) Fredric March as Morris Weissman (Bob Balaban) Ray Milland as Freddie Nesbitt (James Wilby) Else Lanchester as Mabel Nesbitt (Claudie Blakely) James Cagney as Henry Denton (Ryan Phillippe) Charles Laughton as Inspector T----- (Stephen Fry)
Downstairs Maureen O'Sullivan as Mary Maceachran (Kelly Macdonald) Robert Donat as Robert Parks (Clive Owen) Ethel Barrymore as Jane Wilson (Helen Mirren) Edna May Oliver as Lizzie Croft (Eileen Atkins) Jean Harlow as Elsie (Emily Watson) Boris Karloff as Mr. Jennings (Alan Bates) Edmund Gwenn as Mr. Probert (Derek Jacobi) Basil Rathbone as George (Richard E. Grant)
Another thread asked: what if “The Godfather” had been made in the ‘50s? My contribution was:
Vito……………………… Robert Mitchum / Humphrey Bogart Michael………………….Montgomery Clift Sonny…………………....Robert Ryan Fredo…………………….Tony Curtis Kay……………..…..……Ava Gardner Hagen……………………Edmund O’Brien Clemenza...............Rod Steiger Capt. McCluskey…….…Karl Malden Jack Woltz……………...Ray Milland Carlo……………………Lloyd Bridges Connie…………………. Rita Moreno Tessio…………………. Millard Mitchell Sollozzo………………..Richard Widmark
Those were fun and your challenge should be, too. I love any recasting game. I will give it some Deep Thought and get back to you tomorrow.
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Post by mattgarth on Apr 29, 2017 5:51:11 GMT
Taking a cue from Mikef6 -- ________________________
LA CONFIDENTIAL made by Columbia Pictures in 1953 (directed by Sam Fuller):
***********************************************************************
Bud White (Russell Crowe) -- Glenn Ford Ed Exley (Guy Pearce) -- William Holden (borrowing eyeglasses worn in BORN YESTERDAY) Jack Vincennes (Kevin Spacey) -- Dick Powell Dudley Smith (James Cromwell) -- Broderick Crawford Lynn Bracken (Kim Basinger) -- Rita Hayworth (cut to look like ... never mind)
Sid Hudgens (Danny DeVito) -- David Wayne Pierce Patchett (David Strathairn) -- George Macready D.A. Ellis Loew (Ron Rifkin) -- Jose Ferrer 'Badge of Honor' star Brett Chase (Matt McCoy) -- Jack Webb (a no brainer) Johnny Stampanato (Paolo Seganti) -- Lee Marvin
Dick Stensland (Graham Beckel) -- Aldo Ray Susan Lefferts (Amber Smith) -- Gloria Grahame Matt Reynolds (Simon Baker) -- John Derek Mrs. Lefferts (Gwenda Deacon) -- Thelma Ritter Buzz Meeks (Darrell Sandeen) -- Charles McGraw
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Post by teleadm on Apr 29, 2017 13:18:30 GMT
Maybe not a classic Jamaica Inn 1939 by Daphne De Maurier, it should have been in the style of Wuthering Hights 1939, or Great Expecations 1946. With lots of hunging dark clouds over the moors.
Charles Laughton's character is not a crook in the real novel, so Leslie Banks (or in a modern version maybe William Hurt)
Maureen O'Hara, one can't change perfection.
Robert Newton, seeing him as a hero was odd, weatherbitten but strong, Colin Farrell.
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 29, 2017 13:23:56 GMT
Excellent choice, teleadm , but Colin Farrell is a modern actor, is he not? Yes, "classic" is a fairly nebulous term... How about we use "movie that would air on TCM"? And even that's vague--TCM has made some strange decisions about what to air in the past--but I'm loath to use "old movie," because what does old mean? Depends on each person, no?
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 29, 2017 14:51:36 GMT
Excellent choice, teleadm , but Colin Farrell is a modern actor, is he not? Yes, "classic" is a fairly nebulous term... How about we use "movie that would air on TCM"? And even that's vague--TCM has made some strange decisions about what to air in the past--but I'm loath to use "old movie," because what does old mean? Depends on each person, no? Actually, what I wrote there reminds me of the great opening lines to one of the great Robert Benchley's great articles (yes, too many greats in that sentence--I think Benchley's great):
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 29, 2017 15:48:30 GMT
mikef6 and mattgarth , thanks for letting me know about similar games on the IMDb Boards--and let me tell you how grateful I am that they're only similar, because, not having had much time on the old boards, I didn't want to be like Chesterton's sailor (who, having left England, landed on a remote island and planted the British flag, claiming it for king and country--just to find out that his ship had blown off course and he'd landed back in England!). By the way, mikef6 , as you're our resident Bogie expert, do you know how he got his famous lisp? I ask because I've vacationed in Portsmouth, NH, many a time, and up there they claim that he got it as a guard while transporting a prisoner to the Portsmouth Naval Prison near the Isles of Shoals--but the Wikipedia page says the story is unconfirmed.
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Post by mikef6 on Apr 29, 2017 18:03:50 GMT
mikef6 and mattgarth , thanks for letting me know about similar games on the IMDb Boards--and let me tell you how grateful I am that they're only similar, because, not having had much time on the old boards, I didn't want to be like Chesterton's sailor (who, having left England, landed on a remote island and planted the British flag, claiming it for king and country--just to find out that his ship had blown off course and he'd landed back in England!). By the way, mikef6 , as you're our resident Bogie expert, do you know how he got his famous lisp? I ask because I've vacationed in Portsmouth, NH, many a time, and up there they claim that he got it as a guard while transporting a prisoner to the Portsmouth Naval Prison near the Isles of Shoals--but the Wikipedia page says the story is unconfirmed. The definitive and exhaustively researched biography of Humphrey Bogart is “Bogart” (great title!). It was begun by A.M. Sperber and, after her death, completed by Eric Lax. It was published in 1997. The authors recount several stories about how Bogie got the scar and slight lisp. One says that his father inflicted it during his childhood, another that he was struck by a flying object during an explosion on board ship during his stint in the Navy. The one about transporting a prisoner they call “the most colorful account” and say that it “was spun by Bogart’s brother-in-law, Stuart Rose.” When Bogart was discharged in 1919, he was given a very thorough physical that identified all his scars, moles, and pockmarks: “his upper lip was unblemished” writes Lax. 5 years later, he was acting as a juvenile lead on Broadway – and drinking and partying hard - when he met Louise Brooks. Brooks later mentioned that she noticed the scar on that occasion but everybody assumed he had been punched in the mouth in some speakeasy fight. Personally, I believe that is the only story that sounds plausible. As for recastings, between Bogart’s screen triumph in “The Petrified Forest” (1934) and about 1941/42, he toiled in the Warner studio system as a contract player and had to take any part assigned. Although he did get some lead roles (Black Legion, Marked Woman), he was usually 3rd or 4th in line for top billing behind Cagney, Eddie G. Robinson, George Raft, and Pat O’Brien. He many times was cast as the second or third billed male in movies starring these other guys. I would recast Humphrey DeForest Bogart in any lead roles he lost to either Raft or O’Brien.
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 29, 2017 18:09:22 GMT
The definitive and exhaustively researched biography of Humphrey Bogart is “Bogart” (great title!). It was begun by A.M. Sperber and, after her death, completed by Eric Lax. It was published in 1997. The authors recount several stories about how Bogie got the scar and slight lisp. One says that his father inflicted it during his childhood, another that he was struck by a flying object during an explosion on board ship during his stint in the Navy. The one about transporting a prisoner they call “the most colorful account” and say that it “was spun by Bogart’s brother-in-law, Stuart Rose.” When Bogart was discharged in 1919, he was given a very thorough physical that identified all his scars, moles, and pockmarks: “his upper lip was unblemished” writes Lax. 5 years later, he was acting as a juvenile lead on Broadway – and drinking and partying hard - when he met Louise Brooks. Brooks later mentioned that she noticed the scar on that occasion but everybody assumed he had been punched in the mouth in some speakeasy fight. Personally, I believe that is the only story that sounds plausible. Interesting! I don't think I'll tell the fishing boat captains in Portsmouth that, though. They love telling the story to tourists. "Ignorance is bliss," as they say. Any specific example, by any chance?
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Post by mikef6 on Apr 29, 2017 18:51:36 GMT
Any specific example, by any chance? I was afraid you were going to ask that, but a little cogitating brings these examples to mind: Pat O’Brien is romancing Ann Sheridan when he gets the job as Yard Boss at the eponymous California penal institution in “San Quentin” (1937). Bogart is Sheridan’s criminal brother who is confined at that same location. Bogart could have easily handled the lead role, even with his limited range George Raft could have played the brother, and Pat O’Brien could have been shopped to another studio. “They Drive By Night” (1940) could have been improved if Raft and Bogie had switched roles or, better yet, Raft had been left off the film altogether.
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 29, 2017 18:58:47 GMT
Any specific example, by any chance? I was afraid you were going to ask that, but a little cogitating brings these examples to mind: Pat O’Brien is romancing Ann Sheridan when he get the job as Yard Boss at the eponymous California penal institution in “San Quentin” (1937). Bogart is Sheridan’s criminal brother who is confined at that same location. Bogart could have easily handled the lead role, even with his limited range George Raft could have played the brother, and Pat O’Brien could have been shopped to another studio. “They Drive By Night” (1940) could have been improved if Raft and Bogie had switched roles or, better yet, Raft had been left off the film altogether.Haven't seen San Quentin, but I have seen They Drive by Night, and you're right about that. Curious about Raft, though--he was my grandfather's favorite actor (and my grandfather was the one who introduced me to both Bogie and Laurel and Hardy!).
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Post by marianne48 on Apr 29, 2017 21:46:17 GMT
Every time I see a scene from Gone With the Wind featuring Vivien Leigh simpering her way through her role as Scarlett O'Hara, I can't help but think of at least two actresses who could have played the part much better:
1. Ida Lupino--only about 20 when the film was being made, but then Scarlett was very young at the beginning of the story, too. Lupino had such an intense movie persona that she could make men's flesh creep, even while attracting them at the same time. She might have frightened General Sherman on his way through Atlanta. It would be easy to see her stealing her sister's beau, as Scarlett does in the film, with her mixture of appeal and that sinister undertone of "better-do-as-I-say-or-else" quality that she had. She also had the teeny-tiny waist that Scarlett did, too.
2. Hedy Lamarr--at the time, probably the most beautiful woman in Hollywood, and possibly at the top of the all-time list, too (maybe Elizabeth Taylor would be her only competition). She might have had to work on her accent a little, but she could certainly have handled the intensity of the role. If Scarlett is supposed to have men all over the South drooling after her, it would help if her looks were a little more striking than those of the other actresses that appear in the film; Leigh doesn't really stand out from the others.
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Post by london777 on Apr 29, 2017 21:52:44 GMT
or, better yet, Raft had been left off the film altogether
Oi! Less of that! George Raft was nearly my mum's lover. He made moves on her in the restaurant at Wembley Stadium during a greyhound racing meeting. He paid her in advance with a signed five-pound note but she lost him and kept the note. (That was her story, anyway).
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Post by marianne48 on Apr 30, 2017 1:53:14 GMT
Robert Mitchum in the John Wayne role in The Quiet Man.
Dan Duryea as Johnny Nolan in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. He fit the description of the father in the novel--just the right look of haggard boyishness, plus his knack for playing charming weaklings.
A young Clint Eastwood reportedly begged for the role of Charles Lindbergh in The Spirit of St. Louis, but apparently the studio felt that he wasn't a big enough name for the starring role. So they went with a more established actor, James Stewart; they solved the problem of his being too old for the part by gluing a blond forelock to his receding hairline. In retrospect, it might have been a breakout role for Eastwood.
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 30, 2017 2:00:23 GMT
Robert Mitchum in the John Wayne role in The Quiet Man.Dan Duryea as Johnny Nolan in A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. He fit the description of the father in the novel--just the right look of haggard boyishness, plus his knack for playing charming weaklings. A young Clint Eastwood reportedly begged for the role of Charles Lindbergh in The Spirit of St. Louis, but apparently the studio felt that he wasn't a big enough name for the starring role. So they went with a more established actor, James Stewart; they solved the problem of his being too old for the part by gluing a blond forelock to his receding hairline. In retrospect, it might have been a breakout role for Eastwood. Oh, Lord. The other two I can see, as much as Jimmy Stewart is my favorite actor, but Robert Mitchum in The Quiet Man? Well, I'm of the opinion the picture is perfect as-is, but so be it!  Thanks for your answers, Marianne! By the way, while I like Vivian Leigh in Gone with the Wind more than you, I like your alternative picks. Very clever.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Apr 30, 2017 18:06:24 GMT
Anyone else want to have a go at it? I haven't much facility for this sort of thing, but there was a time when I thought William Holden would have been an improvement over Gary Merrill as Bill Sampson in All About Eve. Not only did I feel Merrill was one of the weaker cast members, but imagine: playing opposite four of the five actresses nominated for best performance in a single year. I've come to reevaluate Merrill's work more favorably of late. It's only in a couple of scenes - the "Listen, Junior, and learn. Do you want to know what the theatre is?" speech, for instance - or with dialogue like "the barroom, Benzedrine standards of this megalomaniac society" that he seems overemphatic or out of his depth. Overall, though, it's really rather a nice performance. So...never mind.
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Post by mattgarth on Apr 30, 2017 18:18:49 GMT
And that would have been another take at being a stage director for Holden -- in addition to THE COUNTRY GIRL.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Apr 30, 2017 18:31:54 GMT
And that would have been another take at being a stage director for Holden -- in addition to THE COUNTRY GIRL. Indeed. He did play screenwriters twice ( Sunset Blvd, Paris When It Sizzles). And I think Davis played no fewer than four actresses (two stage and two screen: Dangerous, AAE, The Star, Whatever Happened To Baby Jane).
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Post by Salzmank on Apr 30, 2017 19:39:58 GMT
I've got another one, if no one minds: William Powell instead of Melvyn Douglas  in Lubitsch's Ninotchka. (Perhaps that would make me like the picture more; as much as Lubitsch is my favorite director--well, along with the diametrically different Hawks-- Ninotchka has never been a favorite of mine, unfortunately, though I recognize many good elements in it, particularly Garbo.)
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Post by neurosturgeon on May 1, 2017 2:21:13 GMT
I had a discussion yesterday with my housemate about the 1931 version of "The Maltese Falcon," a story that had to be remade two more times before they got it right.
The biggest problem was the casting of Ricardo Cortez as Sam Spade. My thought was William Powell would have been a better choice, while he suggested that Warren William, who did the part in the 1937 "Satan Met a Lady," would have been available then.
GWTW has fairly perfect casting, but there has always been some concern about Leslie Howard being too old for the part of Ashley Wilkes. I have several suggestions:
1. Arthur Kennedy: May not have been on the Hollywood radar quite yet, but he could have been interesting.
2. Alan Marshal: I think he even did some of the screen tests as Selznick had used him in "Garden of Allah."
3. Tyrone Power: Just watch "The Mark of Zorro" and think about it.
4. Laurence Olivier: Was he even considered?
5. Richard Greene: Was quite good in "The Little Princess" that year.
One film I have thought of recasting many time is "Kings Row," but it just wears me out thinking about it.
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