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Post by lowtacks86 on May 17, 2020 0:48:19 GMT
I actually dunno a whole lot about him, so I'm curious on your guy's thoughts
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 17, 2020 1:58:40 GMT
A crazy genius. Some try to walk the line between those two states, but he straddled it fearlessly like a titanic demi god. His writing is extremely compelling even when you find yourself disagreeing with him. Probably could've developed a cult of personality if he'd taken to politics rather than philosophy. Perhaps more than any great philosopher, Nietzsche has found his way into the popular cultural consciousness, often without many even knowing the ideas originated with him (though some ideas weren't necessarily originally his, per say, he was the one that popularized them). If you've read ideas about the death of God, of facing down nihilism with self-determination, of transcending cultural norms to be kind of superhuman, of truth being largely relative, etc. it's probably due to Nietzsche. Everyone with even a passing interest in philosophy should at least read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, which is probably his most substantial work. Actually, right now you can get most of Nietzsche's writings on Kindle for $8 in two volumes: HERE and HERE. At $2 the Portable Nietzsche is a steal and contains TSZ. |
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on May 17, 2020 2:39:19 GMT
He’s pretty much predicted the 20th century.
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Post by You_Got_A_Stew_Goin_Baby on May 17, 2020 2:54:10 GMT
Probably the most readable philosopher out there. Most of those guys can't write for shit, but Nietzche had knack for writing prose, probably from his study of Greek myth.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 17, 2020 3:07:47 GMT
Probably the most readable philosopher out there. Most of those guys can't write for shit, but Nietzche had knack for writing prose, probably from his study of Greek myth. Yeah, he was extremely literary, though sometimes he can still be pretty dense like a lot of complex literature can. For readability I don't think it gets much clearer than Bertrand Russell, but he didn't have Nietzsche's literary sensibility either.
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Post by The Lost One on May 18, 2020 22:31:50 GMT
For readability I don't think it gets much clearer than Bertrand Russell, but he didn't have Nietzsche's literary sensibility either. And of course he absolutely despised Nietzsche and blamed him (and ultimately Rousseau) for Nazism. Russell considered any philosopher with a shred of romanticism dangerous. |
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 18, 2020 22:43:30 GMT
For readability I don't think it gets much clearer than Bertrand Russell, but he didn't have Nietzsche's literary sensibility either. And of course he absolutely despised Nietzsche and blamed him (and ultimately Rousseau) for Nazism. Russell considered any philosopher with a shred of romanticism dangerous. As I understand it, Nietzsche's alleged proto-Naziism was mostly due to his sister's deceptive editing in which she intentionally suppressed statements about how Nietzsche was firmly anti-nationalist and anti anti-semitism (weird double-negative there). Almost opposite of what happened with Wagner, where the Nazis embraced him even before his explicit anti-semitism came to light. Yeah, Russell seemed to hate idealism and what would become continental philosophy, and I sympathize with his position somewhat, though the poet/artist/aesthete in me has a secret crush on some of them. 
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Post by The Lost One on May 19, 2020 7:38:05 GMT
Yeah, Russell seemed to hate idealism and what would become continental philosophy Hatred is one thing, but he gives any philosopher way too much credit in thinking that it was their musings that gave rise to fascism etc. He also ignores the more unpleasant aspects of his so-called Lockean tradition (eg Locke's apologia for genocide of native Americans or Hume's white supremacism) because they interfere with his narrative of Enlightened Lockeans vs Romantic Rousseauians. |
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Post by Arlon10 on May 19, 2020 8:44:47 GMT
A crazy genius. Some try to walk the line between those two states, but he straddled it fearlessly like a titanic demi god. His writing is extremely compelling even when you find yourself disagreeing with him. Probably could've developed a cult of personality if he'd taken to politics rather than philosophy. Perhaps more than any great philosopher, Nietzsche has found his way into the popular cultural consciousness, often without many even knowing the ideas originated with him (though some ideas weren't necessarily originally his, per say, he was the one that popularized them). If you've read ideas about the death of God, of facing down nihilism with self-determination, of transcending cultural norms to be kind of superhuman, of truth being largely relative, etc. it's probably due to Nietzsche. Everyone with even a passing interest in philosophy should at least read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, which is probably his most substantial work. Actually, right now you can get most of Nietzsche's writings on Kindle for $8 in two volumes: HERE and HERE. At $2 the Portable Nietzsche is a steal and contains TSZ. Walt Whitman said that to have great poets there must be great audiences. Nietzsche had an awful lot of poor audiences. I too don't know much about him, but I suspect that was partly his fault. I'm guessing he was wrong and fired people up about wrong. His "success" might be the result of having much learning and ease of language. Perhaps he made dummies feel smart. Remember Newt Gingrich? Many people thought he was especially intelligent. He did in fact have a large vocabulary and used it with ease. His ideas were not however all that special.
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Post by progressiveelement on May 19, 2020 11:50:50 GMT
There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach 'ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.
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Post by drystyx on May 19, 2020 12:21:10 GMT
I read Nietzche about 30 years ago, so this is on memory.
He whines horribly, if that's any help. You can't read him without picturing someone whining about other people not being perfect. He sounds like a spoiled six year old kid. He offers absolutely nothing, intellectually. Just whining and pouting.
That's about it. Guess there'll always be whiners who like someone else whining with them. Only way to explain his popularity.
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Post by Aj_June on May 19, 2020 12:26:25 GMT
I read Nietzche about 30 years ago, so this is on memory. He whines horribly, if that's any help. You can't read him without picturing someone whining about other people not being perfect. He sounds like a spoiled six year old kid. He offers absolutely nothing, intellectually. Just whining and pouting. That's about it. Guess there'll always be whiners who like someone else whining with them. Only way to explain his popularity. Ser Drystyx for president. 
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Post by thefleetsin on May 19, 2020 17:08:15 GMT
the escalade that jesus cruised around golgotha in.
right around the time
christ became
god
all whitey
but not too far into
the reign
of ronald raygun
here
in the united states of hysteria
we developed
a
love affair
with all things nuclear glare.
as it
was determined
that our
fear-inducing stare
was the
more powerful gospel
than any other
who might possibly
dare
come before us.
for
when one backs up the hallelujah chorus
with
enough flagellated forces
to
choke any manner of four horses
apocalypses
come as side dishes
to the main courses
you've
been spoon fed
all along.
sjw 05/19/2020 inspired at this very moment in time by the grind between the gears.
from the 'blitzkrieg series' of poems
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on May 19, 2020 18:45:29 GMT
And of course he absolutely despised Nietzsche and blamed him (and ultimately Rousseau) for Nazism. Russell considered any philosopher with a shred of romanticism dangerous. As I understand it, Nietzsche's alleged proto-Naziism was mostly due to his sister's deceptive editing in which she intentionally suppressed statements about how Nietzsche was firmly anti-nationalist and anti anti-semitism (weird double-negative there). Almost opposite of what happened with Wagner, where the Nazis embraced him even before his explicit anti-semitism came to light. Yeah, Russell seemed to hate idealism and what would become continental philosophy, and I sympathize with his position somewhat, though the poet/artist/aesthete in me has a secret crush on some of them. I can’t remember in which book, but he is very critical of the German Purity/White Supremacy movement of the 19th century. But his racist sister definitely pushed him around, especially after his syphilis kicked into third stage. By the end of his life, he’s was pretty much gone mentally, but she would bring the proto-Nazis to the hospital to meet him. Very sad ending for a brilliant and unique mind. Any Rand stole a lot of Nietzsche's ideas and perverted them for her Objectivism philosophy.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on May 19, 2020 18:49:33 GMT
I read Nietzche about 30 years ago, so this is on memory. He whines horribly, if that's any help. You can't read him without picturing someone whining about other people not being perfect. He sounds like a spoiled six year old kid. He offers absolutely nothing, intellectually. Just whining and pouting. That's about it. Guess there'll always be whiners who like someone else whining with them. Only way to explain his popularity.
This is true and why so many teenage boys glom onto him. He’s the inspiration for Holden Caulfield.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on May 19, 2020 19:05:45 GMT
A crazy genius. Some try to walk the line between those two states, but he straddled it fearlessly like a titanic demi god. His writing is extremely compelling even when you find yourself disagreeing with him. Probably could've developed a cult of personality if he'd taken to politics rather than philosophy. Perhaps more than any great philosopher, Nietzsche has found his way into the popular cultural consciousness, often without many even knowing the ideas originated with him (though some ideas weren't necessarily originally his, per say, he was the one that popularized them). If you've read ideas about the death of God, of facing down nihilism with self-determination, of transcending cultural norms to be kind of superhuman, of truth being largely relative, etc. it's probably due to Nietzsche. Everyone with even a passing interest in philosophy should at least read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, which is probably his most substantial work. Actually, right now you can get most of Nietzsche's writings on Kindle for $8 in two volumes: HERE and HERE. At $2 the Portable Nietzsche is a steal and contains TSZ. Walt Whitman said that to have great poets there must be great audiences. Nietzsche had an awful lot of poor audiences. I too don't know much about him, but I suspect that was partly his fault. I'm guessing he was wrong and fired people up about wrong. His "success" might be the result of having much learning and ease of language. Perhaps he made dummies feel smart. Remember Newt Gingrich? Many people thought he was especially intelligent. He did in fact have a large vocabulary and used it with ease. His ideas were not however all that special. You’ve never read much Nietzsche, “don’t know much about him,” and yet did you know you would not have the great philosophy of the New Republican Party found in such popular right wing books like Atlas Shrugged without him? If you want a crash course into Nietzsche, read Beyond Good and Evil. And along with Freud and Marx, he was one of the Masters of Suspicion. You like suspecting things of not really being what they are because you have a unique vision, so I think the philosophy of the New Morality would interest you. What have you got to lose?
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Post by general313 on May 19, 2020 20:30:44 GMT
I read Nietzche about 30 years ago, so this is on memory. He whines horribly, if that's any help. You can't read him without picturing someone whining about other people not being perfect. He sounds like a spoiled six year old kid. He offers absolutely nothing, intellectually. Just whining and pouting. That's about it. Guess there'll always be whiners who like someone else whining with them. Only way to explain his popularity.
This is true and why so many teenage boys glom onto him. He’s the inspiration for Holden Caulfield. No one can whine quite like Ayn Rand, also a favorite with certain teenage boys.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 20, 2020 0:14:19 GMT
A crazy genius. Some try to walk the line between those two states, but he straddled it fearlessly like a titanic demi god. His writing is extremely compelling even when you find yourself disagreeing with him. Probably could've developed a cult of personality if he'd taken to politics rather than philosophy. Perhaps more than any great philosopher, Nietzsche has found his way into the popular cultural consciousness, often without many even knowing the ideas originated with him (though some ideas weren't necessarily originally his, per say, he was the one that popularized them). If you've read ideas about the death of God, of facing down nihilism with self-determination, of transcending cultural norms to be kind of superhuman, of truth being largely relative, etc. it's probably due to Nietzsche. Everyone with even a passing interest in philosophy should at least read Thus Spoke Zarathustra, which is probably his most substantial work. Actually, right now you can get most of Nietzsche's writings on Kindle for $8 in two volumes: HERE and HERE. At $2 the Portable Nietzsche is a steal and contains TSZ. I too don't know much about him, but I suspect that was partly his fault. Of course you do.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 20, 2020 0:20:50 GMT
Walt Whitman said that to have great poets there must be great audiences. Nietzsche had an awful lot of poor audiences. I too don't know much about him, but I suspect that was partly his fault. I'm guessing he was wrong and fired people up about wrong. His "success" might be the result of having much learning and ease of language. Perhaps he made dummies feel smart. Remember Newt Gingrich? Many people thought he was especially intelligent. He did in fact have a large vocabulary and used it with ease. His ideas were not however all that special. You’ve never read much Nietzsche, “don’t know much about him,” and yet did you know you would not have the great philosophy of the New Republican Party found in such popular right wing books like Atlas Shrugged without him? If you want a crash course into Nietzsche, read Beyond Good and Evil. And along with Freud and Marx, he was one of the Masters of Suspicion. You like suspecting things of not really being what they are because you have a unique vision, so I think the philosophy of the New Morality would interest you. What have you got to lose? I've read Atlas Shrugged and it does not represent capitalist, conservative or any right wing ideals well. It is more of an unfair "caricature" of them.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 20, 2020 0:21:33 GMT
Yeah, Russell seemed to hate idealism and what would become continental philosophy Hatred is one thing, but he gives any philosopher way too much credit in thinking that it was their musings that gave rise to fascism etc. He also ignores the more unpleasant aspects of his so-called Lockean tradition (eg Locke's apologia for genocide of native Americans or Hume's white supremacism) because they interfere with his narrative of Enlightened Lockeans vs Romantic Rousseauians. TBH, I don't remember Russell arguing this, but I would certainly agree with you. Nationalism and anti-semitism was just part of the cultural zeitgeist in 19th century Germany and it continued into the 20th century. It was simply ripe for someone like the Nazis to come along and capitalize on those feelings. It would've happened with or without Neitzsche, or Wagner, or any other individual.
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