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Post by thisguy4000 on May 31, 2020 12:05:57 GMT
What? You’re the one who brought up Blade Runner, and now you’re claiming that I’m the one arguing for it? Also, if you’re really going to insist on grilling me on this idiotic question of yours, then fine. Ever heard of the Star Wars? You know how George Lucas famously kept altering the original trilogy over the years? Well, his altered versions of those movies are currently regarded as the “official” versions of them. Once again, stuff like that isn’t uncommon. That’s exactly what Marvel did with Thanos. This what Thanos looked like in The Avengers. If you’re seriously trying to argue that Zack Snyder chose that scene with Steppenwolf in BvS as a silly little non canon moment, then you have no clue what you’re talking about. That scene was there specifically to set up JL. Snyder just didn’t have the final design in place yet. And no, it wasn’t slapped together for the extended cut. It was supposed to be part of the movie, before WB made Snyder cut the movie down so that it wouldn’t be three hours long. You think the scenes from the extended cut were stuff they slapped together after they already finished the theatrical cut?
Comic book nerd pretension? I’m not being a comic book nerd. I’m pointing out that Darkseid was not written as an antagonist to Superman. The New Gods were conceived as a stand-alone comic book series that wasn’t even meant to be part of the main DCU. I wasn’t trying to prove how “knowledgable” I am about comic books. I’m the first person to admit that I’m not the biggest expert on the planet when it comes to comic book lore. I was simply pointing out that your argument about Superman villains getting neglected doesn’t technically apply to Darkseid, unless you want to argue that Steppenwolf is also a Superman villain... Also, you are aware that the Superman comic you’re referring to only had the character in a cameo, and that he didn’t fight Superman in that comic, right? That comic book you’re referring to was part of the Jimmy Olsen comic book series. Those comics were not about Superman. They were silly little side stories about the adventures of Jimmy Olsen, and Darkseid’s cameo wasn’t even important. Seriously, this argument has gone completely off the rails. All I was ever trying to get at was that retconning Lex Sr. into a hypothetical new Superman film would be a dumb idea. They should either stick with the hole they dug, or they should just ignore everything altogether, but they shouldn’t have it both ways, which is what your Lex Sr. suggestion would amount to. By the way, Thanos debuted in an Iron Man comic, so by your logic, I guess that makes him an Iron Man villain. And no, I’m not saying that as part of my “comic book nerd pretension”, because I’m not even super well versed in Thanos, and I had to use Wikipedia for that one. I didn't say you brought up Blade Runner. I said it's the only thing you've argued. Somehow, I ended up being the only one using examples when you're the one who definitively said Lex Sr can't appear because the Extended Cut says so. I say Extended Cuts aren't always definitive. This argument went off the rails the second you tried to dispute that simple fact. What in the Star Wars sequel trilogy works exclusively as a reference to the Special Editions? In fact, it seemed like they went out of their way not to show Hayden Christensen when Anakin's force ghost has every reason to appear. And before you mention his short voice cameo in TRoS, because trying to nitpick every little detail of my argument to distract from the overarching point is the only trick up your sleeve, they also used Ewan McGreger for Obi-Wan. Re: Steppenwolf - It's a deleted scene reinserted for a home release they know less people are going to see than the theatrical version with an unfinished design. If you want to treat that as canon, that's your prerogative. TIL Jimmy Olson isn't a Superman character. And you're saying Thanos first appeared in the comic of the guy who ends up defeating him in the movies? What a knockout argument, well done. As long as you're checking out wikipedia, read the second paragraph of Darkseid's page. I didn’t say Lex Sr. can’t appear in a movie. I said it would be stupid if he did, and part of the reason for that is because the character is supposed to be dead. Obviously, if they want to do something like that, they’re free to so. I’m just saying that it would be stupid if they did that. For one, the special edition of TESB has Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine. You specifically worded your argument in a way that implied that the scene with Steppenwolf was somehow slapped together after the theatrical cut was already finished. I was simply pointing out how that’s a load of BS. Never said Jimmy Olsen isn’t a Superman character. I’m saying that Darkseid wasn’t introduced as an antagonist to Superman. And if you want to argue that he’s a Superman villain, then that would mean that Steppenwolf is a Superman villain as well, because last I checked, Steppenwolf is a supporting character to the New Gods. Also, are you serious with the Iron Man argument? You think because Iron Man defeated Thanos in a movie, that makes Thanos an Iron Man villain? Are you this dense? In that case, I guess Darkseid must also be a Batman villain...
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Post by thisguy4000 on May 31, 2020 15:46:08 GMT
I’m just going to say one last thing. Another key reason that the Lex Sr. idea would be dumb is because it goes against WB’s current philosophy when it comes to these movies. WB’s current philosophy seems to be to ignore the stuff that didn’t work about the Snyderverse, while keeping the stuff that did, without calling attention to it. If they were to go with the Lex Sr. idea, they would be explicitly acknowledging BvS in a way that would essentially amount to them saying “No, we didn’t mess up! Eisenberg was never the real Lex Luthor!” It would essentially be an odd situation where they would both acknowledge the criticisms of BvS, while also trying to retroactively pretend that people didn’t see the real Lex Luthor in that movie. If they want to ignore Eisenberg, they should either not use Lex Luthor anymore, or do a full on reboot. They shouldn’t try to have it both ways.
Anyway, I’m out. I don’t want to keep wasting energy on this “discussion.”
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Post by Skaathar on May 31, 2020 19:58:47 GMT
I hope they recast Lois Lane and Lex Luthor but bring back Faora.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 4, 2020 9:06:18 GMT
I didn’t say Lex Sr. can’t appear in a movie. I said it would be stupid if he did, and part of the reason for that is because the character is supposed to be dead. Obviously, if they want to do something like that, they’re free to so. I’m just saying that it would be stupid if they did that. For one, the special edition of TESB has Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine. You specifically worded your argument in a way that implied that the scene with Steppenwolf was somehow slapped together after the theatrical cut was already finished. I was simply pointing out how that’s a load of BS. Never said Jimmy Olsen isn’t a Superman character. I’m saying that Darkseid wasn’t introduced as an antagonist to Superman. And if you want to argue that he’s a Superman villain, then that would mean that Steppenwolf is a Superman villain as well, because last I checked, Steppenwolf is a supporting character to the New Gods. Also, are you serious with the Iron Man argument? You think because Iron Man defeated Thanos in a movie, that makes Thanos an Iron Man villain? Are you this dense? In that case, I guess Darkseid must also be a Batman villain... And every cut has Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine, so what does that prove? My specific wording was "they just slapped together an unfinished design for the Extended Cut/youtube promotion that was never gonna be the final design." Now, if I wasn't as dense as I am, I'd think I was just talking about the design. Sorry if my idiotic arguments are too complicated for you. Let me address that last paragraph as simply as I can: 1. Nothing about Steppenwolf in Justice League shows they were confident with the character. In fact, them distancing him from Darkseid and cutting the latter out completely is what we were talking about in the first place. 2. Thanos isn't solely an Iron Man villain, but he is AN Iron Man villain. What, are they buds? And I'm sure the poignancy of the guy who's comic he first appeared in being the one to kill him wasn't lost on the filmmakers, that was my point. You can bet if they ever DID do a JL movie with Darkseifd, Superman would be the one to beat him. 3. Wikipedia didn't refer to Darkseid as a staple Batman villain. Keep dancing around that point. And rewriting Eisenberg's Lex Luther into a more serious (ie completely different) character doesn't do ANY of that. I look forward to you not replying.
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Post by dazz on Jun 4, 2020 11:28:26 GMT
Eh at this point I don't care if they recast everyone for MOS 2 except for Martha, otherwise meh, same cast, new cast I don't really care I just want a MOS2 with Cavil as Superman.
But really comes down to the direction of a MOS2 is it going to follow the same vein as MOS 1 and BVS with Snyder's style? if so then don't recast, but if they want to make a more light and bright Superman movie going forward then yeah recast the lot of them.
In either case recast Lex for the love of god Eisenberg was an atrocious Lex imo.
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Post by politicidal on Jun 5, 2020 14:22:52 GMT
Eh at this point I don't care if they recast everyone for MOS 2 except for Martha, otherwise meh, same cast, new cast I don't really care I just want a MOS2 with Cavil as Superman. But really comes down to the direction of a MOS2 is it going to follow the same vein as MOS 1 and BVS with Snyder's style? if so then don't recast, but if they want to make a more light and bright Superman movie going forward then yeah recast the lot of them. In either case recast Lex for the love of god Eisenberg was an atrocious Lex imo. Maybe they could do what Marvel did with The Incredible Hulk (2008). Recast if necessary but keep the backstory kind of the same.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 6, 2020 2:35:25 GMT
I didn’t say Lex Sr. can’t appear in a movie. I said it would be stupid if he did, and part of the reason for that is because the character is supposed to be dead. Obviously, if they want to do something like that, they’re free to so. I’m just saying that it would be stupid if they did that. For one, the special edition of TESB has Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine. You specifically worded your argument in a way that implied that the scene with Steppenwolf was somehow slapped together after the theatrical cut was already finished. I was simply pointing out how that’s a load of BS. Never said Jimmy Olsen isn’t a Superman character. I’m saying that Darkseid wasn’t introduced as an antagonist to Superman. And if you want to argue that he’s a Superman villain, then that would mean that Steppenwolf is a Superman villain as well, because last I checked, Steppenwolf is a supporting character to the New Gods. Also, are you serious with the Iron Man argument? You think because Iron Man defeated Thanos in a movie, that makes Thanos an Iron Man villain? Are you this dense? In that case, I guess Darkseid must also be a Batman villain... And every cut has Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine, so what does that prove? My specific wording was "they just slapped together an unfinished design for the Extended Cut/youtube promotion that was never gonna be the final design." Now, if I wasn't as dense as I am, I'd think I was just talking about the design. Sorry if my idiotic arguments are too complicated for you. Let me address that last paragraph as simply as I can: 1. Nothing about Steppenwolf in Justice League shows they were confident with the character. In fact, them distancing him from Darkseid and cutting the latter out completely is what we were talking about in the first place. 2. Thanos isn't solely an Iron Man villain, but he is AN Iron Man villain. What, are they buds? And I'm sure the poignancy of the guy who's comic he first appeared in being the one to kill him wasn't lost on the filmmakers, that was my point. You can bet if they ever DID do a JL movie with Darkseifd, Superman would be the one to beat him. 3. Wikipedia didn't refer to Darkseid as a staple Batman villain. Keep dancing around that point. I guess I’ll break my promise and address a few things about your belated post, with a belated post of my own. 1. My point was that Ian McDiarmid wasn't originally Palpatine. Palpatine looked and sounded completely different when he originally appeared in TESB. Lucas digitally inserted Ian McDiarmid in later editions in order to maintain consistency. 2. My point was that the scene wasn’t slapped together specifically so it could be cut from the theatrical release. The extended cut of the movie predates the theatrical cut, meaning that when they put that scene together, they were most likely expecting it to be in the finished movie. 3. As I said earlier, the reason they cut Darkseid out of the movie was because they no longer wanted to follow through on Snyder’s plans. Snyder’s plans called for Darkseid to be the main antagonist of JL2 and JL3. Since WB was no longer making those movies, they chose to cut him from the movie, so that JL could serve as a “conclusion” of sorts. 4. I’m pretty sure Iron Man was the one who beat Thanos in the movies because he’s the flagship hero of the MCU, and they wanted to give the character a heroic sacrifice. I highly doubt they did that because of a bit of trivia that the general public wouldn’t even be aware of. Also, I’m pretty sure Batman was supposed to be the one to defeat Darkseid in Snyder’s original plans. 5. I wasn’t referring to Wikipedia. I brought that up because Batman actually did defeat Darkseid in Final Crisis.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 6, 2020 5:19:38 GMT
And every cut has Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine, so what does that prove? My specific wording was "they just slapped together an unfinished design for the Extended Cut/youtube promotion that was never gonna be the final design." Now, if I wasn't as dense as I am, I'd think I was just talking about the design. Sorry if my idiotic arguments are too complicated for you. Let me address that last paragraph as simply as I can: 1. Nothing about Steppenwolf in Justice League shows they were confident with the character. In fact, them distancing him from Darkseid and cutting the latter out completely is what we were talking about in the first place. 2. Thanos isn't solely an Iron Man villain, but he is AN Iron Man villain. What, are they buds? And I'm sure the poignancy of the guy who's comic he first appeared in being the one to kill him wasn't lost on the filmmakers, that was my point. You can bet if they ever DID do a JL movie with Darkseifd, Superman would be the one to beat him. 3. Wikipedia didn't refer to Darkseid as a staple Batman villain. Keep dancing around that point. I guess I’ll break my promise and address a few things about your belated post, with a belated post of my own. 1. My point was that Ian McDiarmid wasn't originally Palpatine. Palpatine looked and sounded completely different when he originally appeared in TESB. Lucas digitally inserted Ian McDiarmid in later editions in order to maintain consistency. 2. My point was that the scene wasn’t slapped together specifically so it could be cut from the theatrical release. The extended cut of the movie predates the theatrical cut, meaning that when they put that scene together, they were most likely expecting it to be in the finished movie. 3. As I said earlier, the reason they cut Darkseid out of the movie was because they no longer wanted to follow through on Snyder’s plans. Snyder’s plans called for Darkseid to be the main antagonist of JL2 and JL3. Since WB was no longer making those movies, they chose to cut him from the movie, so that JL could serve as a “conclusion” of sorts. 4. I’m pretty sure Iron Man was the one who beat Thanos in the movies because he’s the flagship hero of the MCU, and they wanted to give the character a heroic sacrifice. I highly doubt they did that because of a bit of trivia that the general public wouldn’t even be aware of. Also, I’m pretty sure Batman was supposed to be the one to defeat Darkseid in Snyder’s original plans. 5. I wasn’t referring to Wikipedia. I brought that up because Batman actually did defeat Darkseid in Final Crisis. I knew you wouldn't be able to help yourself. 1. Yes, but I asked you for something referenced in the sequels that can *only* be to the SE. Ian McDiarmid in ESB is not it because he appeared in ROTJ theatrical. If they showed a flashback to that scene and had the McDiarmid version, you'd have something, but I don't recall that. Not to argue your own point for you, but if Morrison comes back as Boba Fett in The Mandalorian you'd have a better argument (however a. right now it's unconfirmed who he's playing and b. it was retconned in the SE in service of a movie already made - AotC - so a bit of a grey area). Again, I think it's a huge point against the SE that they never bring in Hayden Christensen as Anakin's force ghost in the ST. Either way, you have an ambiguous example at best. It's seeming like either sequels will outright ignore alternate cuts (as is the case for Alien which you never responded to), or play it safe and leave it ambiguous (mainly when it's controversial, like BR and SW OT). And in the case of BvS, we're probably the only two people in the world getting heated over which cut is canon so I doubt WB would or should worry too much about pissing anyone off. 2. I didn't say the scene was slapped together. Again, the *design*. On the subject of poor wording, them putting an unfinished design in a scene they deleted and then readded to a home release less people will see certainly makes it sound a certain way. Why would any director knowingly put an unfinished design into a finished movie? It's not like Joss Whedon knew in 2012 Thanos would end up a shade lighter in 2019. JL was basically already in production. Nothing about what you're saying here makes sense. Furthermore, I'm doing my own research and finding Snyder did like that design but WB was gonna make him change it before firing him altogether. Certainly lends credence to the Extended Cut not being canon. 3. And yet they put a cliffhanger of Lex setting up an Injustice League. That's my point. Every Superman movie always reverts back to Lex and Zod. They had Steppenwolf and a setup for Darkseid, and treated Steppenwolf like an embarrassment while axing Darkseid altogether. 4 and 5. I feel like the MCU kind of steered to Cap as the flagship hero, especially with how Iron Man would come to be somewhat villainized in Age of Ultron and Civil War. And I'd think Batman killing Darkseid would be a deliberate subversion because we're expecting it to be Superman. But whatever. I never said Darkseid is ONLY an enemy of Superman, but he is AN enemy of Superman. Surely we can at least agree on that.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 6, 2020 13:41:49 GMT
I guess I’ll break my promise and address a few things about your belated post, with a belated post of my own. 1. My point was that Ian McDiarmid wasn't originally Palpatine. Palpatine looked and sounded completely different when he originally appeared in TESB. Lucas digitally inserted Ian McDiarmid in later editions in order to maintain consistency. 2. My point was that the scene wasn’t slapped together specifically so it could be cut from the theatrical release. The extended cut of the movie predates the theatrical cut, meaning that when they put that scene together, they were most likely expecting it to be in the finished movie. 3. As I said earlier, the reason they cut Darkseid out of the movie was because they no longer wanted to follow through on Snyder’s plans. Snyder’s plans called for Darkseid to be the main antagonist of JL2 and JL3. Since WB was no longer making those movies, they chose to cut him from the movie, so that JL could serve as a “conclusion” of sorts. 4. I’m pretty sure Iron Man was the one who beat Thanos in the movies because he’s the flagship hero of the MCU, and they wanted to give the character a heroic sacrifice. I highly doubt they did that because of a bit of trivia that the general public wouldn’t even be aware of. Also, I’m pretty sure Batman was supposed to be the one to defeat Darkseid in Snyder’s original plans. 5. I wasn’t referring to Wikipedia. I brought that up because Batman actually did defeat Darkseid in Final Crisis. I knew you wouldn't be able to help yourself. 1. Yes, but I asked you for something referenced in the sequels that can *only* be to the SE. Ian McDiarmid in ESB is not it because he appeared in ROTJ theatrical. If they showed a flashback to that scene and had the McDiarmid version, you'd have something, but I don't recall that. Not to argue your own point for you, but if Morrison comes back as Boba Fett in The Mandalorian you'd have a better argument (however a. right now it's unconfirmed who he's playing and b. it was retconned in the SE in service of a movie already made - AotC - so a bit of a grey area). Again, I think it's a huge point against the SE that they never bring in Hayden Christensen as Anakin's force ghost in the ST. Either way, you have an ambiguous example at best. It's seeming like either sequels will outright ignore alternate cuts (as is the case for Alien which you never responded to), or play it safe and leave it ambiguous (mainly when it's controversial, like BR and SW OT). And in the case of BvS, we're probably the only two people in the world getting heated over which cut is canon so I doubt WB would or should worry too much about pissing anyone off. 2. I didn't say the scene was slapped together. Again, the *design*. On the subject of poor wording, them putting an unfinished design in a scene they deleted and then readded to a home release less people will see certainly makes it sound a certain way. Why would any director knowingly put an unfinished design into a finished movie? It's not like Joss Whedon knew in 2012 Thanos would end up a shade lighter in 2019. JL was basically already in production. Nothing about what you're saying here makes sense. Furthermore, I'm doing my own research and finding Snyder did like that design but WB was gonna make him change it before firing him altogether. Certainly lends credence to the Extended Cut not being canon. 3. And yet they put a cliffhanger of Lex setting up an Injustice League. That's my point. Every Superman movie always reverts back to Lex and Zod. They had Steppenwolf and a setup for Darkseid, and treated Steppenwolf like an embarrassment while axing Darkseid altogether. 4 and 5. I feel like the MCU kind of steered to Cap as the flagship hero, especially with how Iron Man would come to be somewhat villainized in Age of Ultron and Civil War. And I'd think Batman killing Darkseid would be a deliberate subversion because we're expecting it to be Superman. But whatever. I never said Darkseid is ONLY an enemy of Superman, but he is AN enemy of Superman. Surely we can at least agree on that. It’s not about “helping myself.” For whatever reason, you waited several days before responding to me. If you had responded to me sooner, I would’ve been less inclined to respond back, but for whatever reason, you chose to wait several days after the fact, by which point, I had completely forgotten about the conversation. I never said that WB would be concerned about “pissing anyone off.” Once again, I’m merely saying that it would be dumb if they tried to retcon Eisenberg into not being the “real” Lex. Hell, forget what I even said about the extended cut, because the movie in general made it obvious that Eisenberg was the “real” Lex. It would be such a blatant indication of how reactionary they are. Thanos wasn’t just “a shade lighter” in IW. His design in general looked pretty different. He wasn’t even CG when he appeared in the first Avengers movie, and he was played by a completely different actor. You know why they did that? It’s because they didn’t have a final look in place for Thanos. Also, I’ve already established that WB made Snyder change the design because they were worried about the character looking too “scary”, so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. All I’m getting at is that Steppenwolf was always going to look different in JL. Just look at the concept art for the movie. The difference is that the scene at the end with Lex Luthor wasn’t tied to the main story. It was just a stinger that could easily be ignored, if need be. On the other hand, if they kept the Darkseid scenes, that would mean that the main story of the movie would’ve been left unresolved. Again, WB wanted JL to resolve itself by the end, because they didn’t want to follow up on Snyder’s plans, especially since they weren’t even confident that the movie would do well at the box office (which it didn’t). Also, you are aware that there is supposed to be a New Gods movie, with Darkseid in it, right? Nope, Iron Man is definitely the most recognizable hero in the MCU. He’s the one who started it all, and he’s the one who people most associate with the franchise. Captain America is certainly a significant character as well, but he’s not the “face” of the franchise, Iron Man is. There’s a reason RDJ gets top billing in the Avengers movies.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 11, 2020 9:27:03 GMT
I knew you wouldn't be able to help yourself. 1. Yes, but I asked you for something referenced in the sequels that can *only* be to the SE. Ian McDiarmid in ESB is not it because he appeared in ROTJ theatrical. If they showed a flashback to that scene and had the McDiarmid version, you'd have something, but I don't recall that. Not to argue your own point for you, but if Morrison comes back as Boba Fett in The Mandalorian you'd have a better argument (however a. right now it's unconfirmed who he's playing and b. it was retconned in the SE in service of a movie already made - AotC - so a bit of a grey area). Again, I think it's a huge point against the SE that they never bring in Hayden Christensen as Anakin's force ghost in the ST. Either way, you have an ambiguous example at best. It's seeming like either sequels will outright ignore alternate cuts (as is the case for Alien which you never responded to), or play it safe and leave it ambiguous (mainly when it's controversial, like BR and SW OT). And in the case of BvS, we're probably the only two people in the world getting heated over which cut is canon so I doubt WB would or should worry too much about pissing anyone off. 2. I didn't say the scene was slapped together. Again, the *design*. On the subject of poor wording, them putting an unfinished design in a scene they deleted and then readded to a home release less people will see certainly makes it sound a certain way. Why would any director knowingly put an unfinished design into a finished movie? It's not like Joss Whedon knew in 2012 Thanos would end up a shade lighter in 2019. JL was basically already in production. Nothing about what you're saying here makes sense. Furthermore, I'm doing my own research and finding Snyder did like that design but WB was gonna make him change it before firing him altogether. Certainly lends credence to the Extended Cut not being canon. 3. And yet they put a cliffhanger of Lex setting up an Injustice League. That's my point. Every Superman movie always reverts back to Lex and Zod. They had Steppenwolf and a setup for Darkseid, and treated Steppenwolf like an embarrassment while axing Darkseid altogether. 4 and 5. I feel like the MCU kind of steered to Cap as the flagship hero, especially with how Iron Man would come to be somewhat villainized in Age of Ultron and Civil War. And I'd think Batman killing Darkseid would be a deliberate subversion because we're expecting it to be Superman. But whatever. I never said Darkseid is ONLY an enemy of Superman, but he is AN enemy of Superman. Surely we can at least agree on that. It’s not about “helping myself.” For whatever reason, you waited several days before responding to me. If you had responded to me sooner, I would’ve been less inclined to respond back, but for whatever reason, you chose to wait several days after the fact, by which point, I had completely forgotten about the conversation. I never said that WB would be concerned about “pissing anyone off.” Once again, I’m merely saying that it would be dumb if they tried to retcon Eisenberg into not being the “real” Lex. Hell, forget what I even said about the extended cut, because the movie in general made it obvious that Eisenberg was the “real” Lex. It would be such a blatant indication of how reactionary they are. Thanos wasn’t just “a shade lighter” in IW. His design in general looked pretty different. He wasn’t even CG when he appeared in the first Avengers movie, and he was played by a completely different actor. You know why they did that? It’s because they didn’t have a final look in place for Thanos. Also, I’ve already established that WB made Snyder change the design because they were worried about the character looking too “scary”, so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. All I’m getting at is that Steppenwolf was always going to look different in JL. Just look at the concept art for the movie. The difference is that the scene at the end with Lex Luthor wasn’t tied to the main story. It was just a stinger that could easily be ignored, if need be. On the other hand, if they kept the Darkseid scenes, that would mean that the main story of the movie would’ve been left unresolved. Again, WB wanted JL to resolve itself by the end, because they didn’t want to follow up on Snyder’s plans, especially since they weren’t even confident that the movie would do well at the box office (which it didn’t). Also, you are aware that there is supposed to be a New Gods movie, with Darkseid in it, right? Nope, Iron Man is definitely the most recognizable hero in the MCU. He’s the one who started it all, and he’s the one who people most associate with the franchise. Captain America is certainly a significant character as well, but he’s not the “face” of the franchise, Iron Man is. There’s a reason RDJ gets top billing in the Avengers movies. If you're comparing Extended Cuts to stinger scenes, and stinger scenes can easily be ignored, then logically so can Extended Cuts. You just compromised your entire Thanos argument. I am aware of the New Gods movie. I am not aware of Superman being in it, however. I loved when Iron Man finally said "Avengers assemble" in Endgame as he lead everyone into the final battle. And how it all ended on a shot of him and not Captain America. Really cemented his alpha status. It's also really nice that Ben Affleck let Henry Cavill get top billing in all the DCEU movies despite being a bigger name. I mean, it started with Man of Steel, so Superman is the main character and gets top billing. That's how that works. Waited a couple days to make you super-duper-extra inclined to responded. See you soon.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jun 11, 2020 17:22:54 GMT
It’s not about “helping myself.” For whatever reason, you waited several days before responding to me. If you had responded to me sooner, I would’ve been less inclined to respond back, but for whatever reason, you chose to wait several days after the fact, by which point, I had completely forgotten about the conversation. I never said that WB would be concerned about “pissing anyone off.” Once again, I’m merely saying that it would be dumb if they tried to retcon Eisenberg into not being the “real” Lex. Hell, forget what I even said about the extended cut, because the movie in general made it obvious that Eisenberg was the “real” Lex. It would be such a blatant indication of how reactionary they are. Thanos wasn’t just “a shade lighter” in IW. His design in general looked pretty different. He wasn’t even CG when he appeared in the first Avengers movie, and he was played by a completely different actor. You know why they did that? It’s because they didn’t have a final look in place for Thanos. Also, I’ve already established that WB made Snyder change the design because they were worried about the character looking too “scary”, so I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. All I’m getting at is that Steppenwolf was always going to look different in JL. Just look at the concept art for the movie. The difference is that the scene at the end with Lex Luthor wasn’t tied to the main story. It was just a stinger that could easily be ignored, if need be. On the other hand, if they kept the Darkseid scenes, that would mean that the main story of the movie would’ve been left unresolved. Again, WB wanted JL to resolve itself by the end, because they didn’t want to follow up on Snyder’s plans, especially since they weren’t even confident that the movie would do well at the box office (which it didn’t). Also, you are aware that there is supposed to be a New Gods movie, with Darkseid in it, right? Nope, Iron Man is definitely the most recognizable hero in the MCU. He’s the one who started it all, and he’s the one who people most associate with the franchise. Captain America is certainly a significant character as well, but he’s not the “face” of the franchise, Iron Man is. There’s a reason RDJ gets top billing in the Avengers movies. If you're comparing Extended Cuts to stinger scenes, and stinger scenes can easily be ignored, then logically so can Extended Cuts. You just compromised your entire Thanos argument. I am aware of the New Gods movie. I am not aware of Superman being in it, however. I loved when Iron Man finally said "Avengers assemble" in Endgame as he lead everyone into the final battle. And how it all ended on a shot of him and not Captain America. Really cemented his alpha status. It's also really nice that Ben Affleck let Henry Cavill get top billing in all the DCEU movies despite being a bigger name. I mean, it started with Man of Steel, so Superman is the main character and gets top billing. That's how that works. Waited a couple days to make you super-duper-extra inclined to responded. See you soon. The key difference between the Thanos scene and the Lex Luthor scene is that the Thanos scene actually was tied to the plot of the movie. Thanos was the one who gave Loki his army. Meanwhile, the Lex Luthor scene was completely irrelevant to the rest of the movie. Also, just for the record, I specifically acknowledged that Captain America is indeed a significant character in the MCU. In fact, an argument could be made that he’s the central character of the story. I’m simply saying that in terms of which character is the face of the franchise, that would clearly be Iron Man. Keep in mind, Iron Man was also the one who stopped the Chitauri invasion. Edit: Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to bring up. A while ago when you asked me to give examples of movies that are sequels to extended cuts, does the Aquaman movie count? According to James Wan, the movie specifically picks up where the Snyder Cut of JL left off. screenrant.com/aquaman-justice-league-sequel-zack-snyder-cut-whedon/Anyway, see you in a few days, I guess.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jun 12, 2020 3:21:07 GMT
If you're comparing Extended Cuts to stinger scenes, and stinger scenes can easily be ignored, then logically so can Extended Cuts. You just compromised your entire Thanos argument. I am aware of the New Gods movie. I am not aware of Superman being in it, however. I loved when Iron Man finally said "Avengers assemble" in Endgame as he lead everyone into the final battle. And how it all ended on a shot of him and not Captain America. Really cemented his alpha status. It's also really nice that Ben Affleck let Henry Cavill get top billing in all the DCEU movies despite being a bigger name. I mean, it started with Man of Steel, so Superman is the main character and gets top billing. That's how that works. Waited a couple days to make you super-duper-extra inclined to responded. See you soon. The key difference between the Thanos scene and the Lex Luthor scene is that the Thanos scene actually was tied to the plot of the movie. Thanos was the one who gave Loki his army. Meanwhile, the Lex Luthor scene was completely irrelevant to the rest of the movie. Also, just for the record, I specifically acknowledged that Captain America is indeed a significant character in the MCU. In fact, an argument could be made that he’s the central character of the story. I’m simply saying that in terms of which character is the face of the franchise, that would clearly be Iron Man. Keep in mind, Iron Man was also the one who stopped the Chitauri invasion. Edit: Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to bring up. A while ago when you asked me to give examples of movies that are sequels to extended cuts, does the Aquaman movie count? According to James Wan, the movie specifically picks up where the Snyder Cut of JL left off. screenrant.com/aquaman-justice-league-sequel-zack-snyder-cut-whedon/Anyway, see you in a few days, I guess. I mean, we'll have to take his word for it since I don't remember anything specifically tailored to the Snyder Cut. "Face of the franchise", "central character of the story", I think we're officially splitting hairs. But back to the main point, I saw you saw that WB has no confidence in a solo Superman outing. More credence to the lack of confidence in new Superman villains. And I wasn't referring to the JL stinger when I said you nuked your Thanos argument. All this time, you've been backing up them not caring about being true to Steppenwolf's design in the Extended Cut of BvS because of Thanos in Avengers 2012 (who I had no idea wasn't Josh Brolin or CGI, but that's another story), and now you've conceded that stinger scenes can "easily" be ignored. If they don't care about stinger scenes, then they definitely don't care about Extended Cuts. Thus anything in the Extended Cut is a fair game to ignore, including Lex Sr's whereabouts. Got back sooner today. Maybe that means you don't need to respond. Or something.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 25, 2022 15:37:25 GMT
Any suggestions?
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