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Post by Karl Aksel on Jun 30, 2020 14:47:12 GMT
"Human-like behaviour" assumes our behaviour is unique. It isn't, really. Humans have nature-like behaviour. Success in an evolutionary sense must necessarily be dog-eat-dog. Yes, we co-operate, but only to out-compete other species and other groups of humans who also co-operate. Intelligent aliens would by necessity have had to have reached their level of enlightenment by the same path as we have: by becoming top dog through a long and arduous evolutionary process. And a species that takes to the stars is a species which has exhausted - or is fast exhausting - its options back home. And a sense of curiosity is of no benefit to a species which does not use it for its own selfish interest. War and conquest would certainly not be foreign to them. "Oh, this planet's already taken. I guess we'll have to go elsewhere, then." That would be an extremely wasteful attitude, and to their detriment. It is inconceivable that such a self-less instinct - even towards species not its own - should ever be selected for. Fair enough about human like behavior but I disagree with you on the rest. It implies that evolution on this planet happened similar on other planets. I mean theoretically life on some planets might not even be carbon based. Competition might not been selected by nature on other planets. Some aliens might even be immortal thus they might not even have the concept of death. No matter how life formed or evolved, whether carbon based, silicon based or whatever, it had to start simple - simple organisms simply devouring resources wherever they came across them. Then they'd evolve to be more specialised, and then you'd have more and more organisms competing for the same resources. Soon enough predators would evolve, as other organisms would be easier pickings than the base resources consumed by them. It would not be dissimilar from how life evolved on Earth, even if not carbon based. Life forms would look completely different, but the basic principles would still apply. As for immortal beings, this is a theoretical possibility for plants or plant-like organisms, but with more complex life forms - animals or animal-like life forms - the laws of thermodynamics would get in the way. And even if a being was immortal, it would still be very familiar with death, as it could still be killed. And given enough time, this is a statistical certainty. Tribalism is a natural next step from socialisation. This is because we do not only compete against other species for our very presence on this planet, but we also compete against others of our kind, for the same resources. In fact, we owe practically all of our advances to this. Which would be very bad news for us. The more different aliens would be from us, the less they would be able to empathise with us, and the less likely they would be to want to be friends with us. They would see us either as a valuable resource to use for their own purposes, or they would see us as a threat. Either way, we would not stand to gain from meeting a civilisation more advanced than ourselves. Like Plato said, an alliance with the powerful is never to be trusted.
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Post by Winter_King on Jun 30, 2020 14:54:13 GMT
Fair enough about human like behavior but I disagree with you on the rest. It implies that evolution on this planet happened similar on other planets. I mean theoretically life on some planets might not even be carbon based. Competition might not been selected by nature on other planets. Some aliens might even be immortal thus they might not even have the concept of death. No matter how life formed or evolved, whether carbon based, silicon based or whatever, it had to start simple - simple organisms simply devouring resources wherever they came across them. Then they'd evolve to be more specialised, and then you'd have more and more organisms competing for the same resources. Soon enough predators would evolve, as other organisms would be easier pickings than the base resources consumed by them. It would not be dissimilar from how life evolved on Earth, even if not carbon based. Life forms would look completely different, but the basic principles would still apply. As for immortal beings, this is a theoretical possibility for plants or plant-like organisms, but with more complex life forms - animals or animal-like life forms - the laws of thermodynamics would get in the way. And even if a being was immortal, it would still be very familiar with death, as it could still be killed. And given enough time, this is a statistical certainty. Tribalism is a natural next step from socialisation. This is because we do not only compete against other species for our very presence on this planet, but we also compete against others of our kind, for the same resources. In fact, we owe practically all of our advances to this. Which would be very bad news for us. The more different aliens would be from us, the less they would be able to empathise with us, and the less likely they would be to want to be friends with us. They would see us either as a valuable resource to use for their own purposes, or they would see us as a threat. Either way, we would not stand to gain from meeting a civilisation more advanced than ourselves. Like Plato said, an alliance with the powerful is never to be trusted. If they see us like ants, we might not be important enough to kill. We can kill ants but there is no attempt from humans to try and exterminate all of them.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 30, 2020 15:52:42 GMT
If they are aliens, two questions come to mind: 1) Of all the millions and millions of planets, why would they be interested in this one? 2) After taking such a strong interest in this planet, why did they leave? 1) Why not? 2) What makes you think they have? You're questioning my questions. Can't you answer my questions, or at least suggest something plausible instead?
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Post by Jonesy1 on Jun 30, 2020 19:29:48 GMT
1) Why not? 2) What makes you think they have? You're questioning my questions. Can't you answer my questions, or at least suggest something plausible instead? Yes I am. Are you going to pretend you've never done the same?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 30, 2020 19:42:56 GMT
You're questioning my questions. Can't you answer my questions, or at least suggest something plausible instead? Yes I am. Are you going to pretend you've never done the same? I was just hoping for something more. Even something about the "Galactic Federation of Light" would be better than nothing.
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Post by Jonesy1 on Jun 30, 2020 19:55:52 GMT
Yes I am. Are you going to pretend you've never done the same? I was just hoping for something more. Even something about the "Galactic Federation of Light" would be better than nothing. Never heard of them. If you want something well here goes 1) There may be millions and millions of planets but only a fraction support life, or more to the point likely to support, and if life on this planet is different than life on another planet then I'm sure that any visitors from that planet would find us interesting from an exploration point of view. I don't believe that aliens would visit us with hostile intent or any plan to invade because quite simply the logistics would likely be impossible. 2) Can't really give you a better answer.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jun 30, 2020 20:01:23 GMT
I was just hoping for something more. Even something about the "Galactic Federation of Light" would be better than nothing. Never heard of them. If you want something well here goes 1) There may be millions and millions of planets but only a fraction support life, or more to the point likely to support, and if life on this planet is different than life on another planet then I'm sure that any visitors from that planet would find us interesting from an exploration point of view. I don't believe that aliens would visit us with hostile intent or any plan to invade because quite simply the logistics would likely be impossible. 2) Can't really give you a better answer. Thank you. I would like to point out that for a very long time the logistics of Europe invading and colonizing the greater parts of four other continents was impossible, but with advances in technology it became possible (and profitable).
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Post by Jonesy1 on Jul 1, 2020 12:34:58 GMT
Never heard of them. If you want something well here goes 1) There may be millions and millions of planets but only a fraction support life, or more to the point likely to support, and if life on this planet is different than life on another planet then I'm sure that any visitors from that planet would find us interesting from an exploration point of view. I don't believe that aliens would visit us with hostile intent or any plan to invade because quite simply the logistics would likely be impossible. 2) Can't really give you a better answer. Thank you. I would like to point out that for a very long time the logistics of Europe invading and colonizing the greater parts of four other continents was impossible, but with advances in technology it became possible (and profitable). Good point, but keep in mind there is a vast difference between moving from one part the planet to another part of the same planet and traveling not just from one planet to another but from one solar system to another.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Jul 1, 2020 12:43:05 GMT
Did you know that a normal plane can be a UFO
If you see a plane in the sky but you can`t identify it as a plane because lets say its to far away and all you see is a dot, than the plane becomes a UFO
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Post by Karl Aksel on Jul 1, 2020 16:11:29 GMT
No matter how life formed or evolved, whether carbon based, silicon based or whatever, it had to start simple - simple organisms simply devouring resources wherever they came across them. Then they'd evolve to be more specialised, and then you'd have more and more organisms competing for the same resources. Soon enough predators would evolve, as other organisms would be easier pickings than the base resources consumed by them. It would not be dissimilar from how life evolved on Earth, even if not carbon based. Life forms would look completely different, but the basic principles would still apply. As for immortal beings, this is a theoretical possibility for plants or plant-like organisms, but with more complex life forms - animals or animal-like life forms - the laws of thermodynamics would get in the way. And even if a being was immortal, it would still be very familiar with death, as it could still be killed. And given enough time, this is a statistical certainty. Tribalism is a natural next step from socialisation. This is because we do not only compete against other species for our very presence on this planet, but we also compete against others of our kind, for the same resources. In fact, we owe practically all of our advances to this. Which would be very bad news for us. The more different aliens would be from us, the less they would be able to empathise with us, and the less likely they would be to want to be friends with us. They would see us either as a valuable resource to use for their own purposes, or they would see us as a threat. Either way, we would not stand to gain from meeting a civilisation more advanced than ourselves. Like Plato said, an alliance with the powerful is never to be trusted. If they see us like ants, we might not be important enough to kill. We can kill ants but there is no attempt from humans to try and exterminate all of them. If they visit us, that means they are a space-exploring civilisation. If they are space explorers, then they are naturally interested in the study of alien life forms. Which means that they would study us, invariably for their own purposes. Which in turn means that they will either find us a valuable resource to exploit, or they'd be interested in the natural resources of earth - in which case we would be a threat to them, being competitors for the same resources and all. Let's face it, to any alien civilisation interested in the same resources we're interested in, the human race would look like parasites.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 1, 2020 17:28:14 GMT
Thank you. I would like to point out that for a very long time the logistics of Europe invading and colonizing the greater parts of four other continents was impossible, but with advances in technology it became possible (and profitable). Good point, but keep in mind there is a vast difference between moving from one part the planet to another part of the same planet and traveling not just from one planet to another but from one solar system to another. And that is one of the reasons why I tend to think they are not from out there. I think they are from here, and they have duped most of humanity into thinking they are from out there. However, the standard explanation is that they are so freaking advanced that traveling from one star to another is simple for them.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 1, 2020 17:43:19 GMT
I do not doubt aliens are real but I think the term 'UFO' needs to be accepted(by the masses) as an umbrella acronym, in that it can mean much more than extraterrestrial visitors.
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Post by MCDemuth on Jul 1, 2020 18:17:33 GMT
Did you know that a normal plane can be a UFO If you see a plane in the sky but you can`t identify it as a plane because lets say its to far away and all you see is a dot, than the plane becomes a UFO Thanks for stating the obvious... That's not what we are talking about... You seem to be forgetting that many experts have stated that 'many' UFOs are NOT anything like what is known to be available to the aerospace industry... Top Secret aircraft? Perhaps... But they seem to be so far advanced, that one has to wonder, where we got the ideas to create these 'UFOs'... Seriously... Think about this: What we have flying around today, still doesn't come close to what was being reported back in the 1950s... When will those aircraft be available to the public?... And what are they working on, NOW, and when will those be made available to the public? Why is it taking SO long for these advanced aircraft to be made known?Don't you think the designers might get pissed off that they'll spend all their lives working on them, only to die, before they become known? Could it really be, that they are not "Ours"? No one around the world, that we know of, seems to have any aircraft like some of these 'UFOs"... These craft have to belong to somebody... And if these craft don't belong to the United States, Russians, China, ETC... Then whose 'UFOs' are they? No clear UFO photos?Could it also be, that they have some kind of stealth technology, that fucks with light, that makes it impossible for cameras to work correctly? UFOs are "Helicopters"?Still waiting for someone to show me a "Noiseless" Helicopter... Before I can believe that! Weather Balloons?Who the hell has even seen a Weather Balloon? Because it sure seems to be a lot of them around, being mistaken for UFOs... And I've never seen one!
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Post by Winter_King on Jul 2, 2020 9:08:31 GMT
I do not doubt aliens are real but I think the term 'UFO' needs to be accepted(by the masses) as an umbrella acronym, in that it can mean much more than extraterrestrial visitors. I've been saying that for years. Most of the times I see people identifying UFO's as alien spacecraft. Either they are unidentified or they are alien spacecraft. They can't be both.
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