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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 20:32:35 GMT
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Post by stickman38 on Jun 11, 2020 20:46:40 GMT
Has to be NFL QB. Just about every game rests in their hands.
Sure, MLB pitcher is about as important but each of them will only play in about, 25-35 games in a season.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 20:49:33 GMT
Has to be NFL QB. Just about every game rests in their hands. Sure, MLB pitcher is about as important but each of them will only play in about, 25-35 games in a season. I voted for NHL Goalie.
Maybe some of the hardcore hockey fanatics here can school me - when was the last time we saw an 'Average Joe' win the Stanley Cup?
We've seen the Nick Foles of the world win the Super Bowl.
My 2nd pick would be NBA PG......
3rd Pitcher - I mean - you could have an explosive offense bail out a team and win a big game like 9-8, no? (I get this same argument can be made against an NHL goalie to an extent - but in the NHL the goalie is expected to win that series)
4th - QB
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 11, 2020 21:02:50 GMT
NFL QB is more important than all the others put together. Nick Foles and Jeff Hostetler were flukes. Unless you have the 85 Bears defense or the Ravens or Seahawks defenses you need the stud QB.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:08:34 GMT
NFL QB is more important than all the others put together. Nick Foles and Jeff Hostetler were flukes. Unless you have the 85 Bears defense or the Ravens or Seahawks defenses you need the stud QB. Exactly.
This is my point.
You can be a 'fluke' and still win the Super Bowl.
Can the same be said about the Stanley Cup?
Hence IMO - a top of the line goalie is much more important than a top of the line QB.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 11, 2020 21:15:19 GMT
NFL QB is more important than all the others put together. Nick Foles and Jeff Hostetler were flukes. Unless you have the 85 Bears defense or the Ravens or Seahawks defenses you need the stud QB. Exactly.
This is my point.
You can be a 'fluke' and still win the Super Bowl.
Can the same be said about the Stanley Cup?
Hence IMO - a top of the line goalie is much more important than a top of the line QB.
Would Grant Fuhr have been a hall of famer if he was on the Flyers? Or did Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Coffey, and Anderson carry him? Was his successor Andy Moog all that great? And pitchers? Sure, they’re important. But Dallas Braden and Philip Humber threw perfect games. The 2008 Phillies rotation win rings but the four aces won shit. QB is so by far the most important position in sports.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jun 11, 2020 21:15:42 GMT
The answer is NFL QB. 2 flukes don't make the rule that shitty QBs can win, whereas mediocre/middling NHL goalies playing behind stout defensive teams win cups all the time.
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Post by Rufus-T on Jun 11, 2020 21:19:13 GMT
Of the 4 sports, I watched NFL the least. I can't deny that the QB is the most influential position in any of the four sport. Just look at the Superbowl MVP, most of them are QB.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:20:07 GMT
Exactly.
This is my point.
You can be a 'fluke' and still win the Super Bowl.
Can the same be said about the Stanley Cup?
Hence IMO - a top of the line goalie is much more important than a top of the line QB.
Would Grant Fuhr have been a hall of famer if he was on the Flyers? Or did Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Coffey, and Anderson carry him? Was his successor Andy Moog all that great? And pitchers? Sure, they’re important. But Dallas Braden and Philip Humber threw perfect games. The 2008 Phillies rotation win rings but the four aces won shit. QB is so by far the most important position in sports. Grant Fuhr was awesome.
Didn't he meet those Flyers in the Stanley Cup - so yes - I'd argue he would be in the HOF if he were on those Flyers teams.
Yes Gretzky & Co. were elite - however IMO so was Fuhr. Who knows if they would have won the Cup without him - one may argue Yes - they were so good you could have put any ham & egger in there - but I'd argue Fuhr was great.
And this is why I argued Pitchers were 3rd. I agree.
But QB - I mean - it's not just Folesy and The Hoss - Eli, Plunkett, Dilfer, McMahon, Doug Williams.....
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:22:23 GMT
It looks like I'm the lone voice of reason yet again folks
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:23:55 GMT
The answer is NFL QB. 2 flukes don't make the rule that shitty QBs can win, whereas mediocre/middling NHL goalies playing behind stout defensive teams win cups all the time. I forgot Mark Rypien too....
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:24:31 GMT
And Brad Johnson....
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jun 11, 2020 21:24:39 GMT
Would Grant Fuhr have been a hall of famer if he was on the Flyers? Or did Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Coffey, and Anderson carry him? Was his successor Andy Moog all that great? And pitchers? Sure, they’re important. But Dallas Braden and Philip Humber threw perfect games. The 2008 Phillies rotation win rings but the four aces won shit. QB is so by far the most important position in sports. Grant Fuhr was awesome.
Didn't he meet those Flyers in the Stanley Cup - so yes - I'd argue he would be in the HOF if he were on those Flyers teams.
Yes Gretzky & Co. were elite - however IMO so was Fuhr. Who knows if they would have won the Cup without him - one may argue Yes - they were so good you could have put any ham & egger in there - but I'd argue Fuhr was great.
And this is why I argued Pitchers were 3rd. I agree.
But QB - I mean - it's not just Folesy and The Hoss - Eli, Plunkett, Dilfer, McMahon, Doug Williams.....
Dilfer is a good example, but that Bucs team was one of the best defensive teams of the decade. They basically told Dilfer - just don't turn the ball over. Go 3 and out if you have to, just don't fuck this up. Disagree on Eli. He ain't perfect, but he was awesome during their playoff runs (and not so awesome other times). I don't know enough about McMahon and Doug Williams offhand to really comment.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jun 11, 2020 21:25:39 GMT
The answer is NFL QB. 2 flukes don't make the rule that shitty QBs can win, whereas mediocre/middling NHL goalies playing behind stout defensive teams win cups all the time. I forgot Mark Rypien too.... Wasn't he one of the best QBs in the league the year they won?
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:25:56 GMT
Simms and Theisman aren't HOFers either....
And I'd argue Bradshaw was above average but surrounded by elite talent
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:27:11 GMT
Grant Fuhr was awesome.
Didn't he meet those Flyers in the Stanley Cup - so yes - I'd argue he would be in the HOF if he were on those Flyers teams.
Yes Gretzky & Co. were elite - however IMO so was Fuhr. Who knows if they would have won the Cup without him - one may argue Yes - they were so good you could have put any ham & egger in there - but I'd argue Fuhr was great.
And this is why I argued Pitchers were 3rd. I agree.
But QB - I mean - it's not just Folesy and The Hoss - Eli, Plunkett, Dilfer, McMahon, Doug Williams.....
Dilfer is a good example, but that Bucs team was one of the best defensive teams of the decade. They basically told Dilfer - just don't turn the ball over. Go 3 and out if you have to, just don't fuck this up. Disagree on Eli. He ain't perfect, but he was awesome during their playoff runs (and not so awesome other times). I don't know enough about McMahon and Doug Williams offhand to really comment. Agreed.
Dilfer is a great example.
Could have thrown any ham & egger in there.
Not so sure about any ham & egger as a goalie though winning 4 games in a Stanley Cup series.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:27:58 GMT
I forgot Mark Rypien too.... Wasn't he one of the best QBs in the league the year they won? I don't have the slightest idea - I'm just pulling names out of my butt at this point.
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Post by millar70 on Jun 11, 2020 21:29:03 GMT
It looks like I'm the lone voice of reason yet again folks They'll never understand, will they? The truly great ones never get respect until after they're gone.
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Post by FrankSobotka1514 on Jun 11, 2020 21:29:27 GMT
Simms and Theisman aren't HOFers either.... And I'd argue Bradshaw was above average but surrounded by elite talent For every Dilfer and Johnson you quote me I can quote you Brett Myers and Joe Blanton.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 11, 2020 21:32:32 GMT
Simms and Theisman aren't HOFers either.... And I'd argue Bradshaw was above average but surrounded by elite talent For every Dilfer and Johnson you quote me I can quote you Brett Myers and Joe Blanton. Yes - but if we're going to argue the definitive #3 (pitcher) and #4 (QB) on the list -
I'd argue the MLB season is 162 games and these guys have to be a horse throughout the season (9 times out of 10 - sure you'll find some examples of a Pedro on the Phils in 2010 out there)
These Mamas Boy QBS play 16 games a year and a postseason - sissies can't even get touched nowadays.
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