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Post by klawrencio79 on Jun 13, 2020 17:22:48 GMT
Are you trying to say that Hall of Famer and, what, 10-time Pro Bowler, Bob Griese is a scrub? The fact that you think Griese was "bad" in that game doesn't really support your argument - which has gone from "what is the most important position in sports" to "see, he sucked in this game and they still won, that renders him meaningless." Do they even make the SB if Griese was so bad? They do not. Plus, you seem to take it that we're saying that NHL goalies aren't important at all, which nobody is saying. Obviously, goalies are important. I'm stating that the QB position is not the most important position in all of sports.
That the NHL goaltender is.
By pointing out that a HOFer and Pro Bowler on one of the best teams ever assembled had a “bad” game (which wasn’t a bad game)?
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:23:05 GMT
What about all the other examples I've given When are you and northern going to respond to my post about the draft? When you can come up with an argument? Why are QBs taken #1 overall on a regular basis while a goalie was taken #1 only twice in the last 20 years? If the position is so vital, surely they would be coveted above all other positions?
You're just being yourself but the other guy legitimately thinks a great goalie has won the cup every season for the last 40 years. (His words).
Because NFL teams value the QB as the most important position in their sport - personally I value Offensive Lineman.
However - just because it may be the most important position in football (according to most) - it does not make it the most important position in all of sport where a team/sport relies so heavily on a position - such as the NHL and goalie.
The most important position in all of sports - is the NHL Goalie.
Just like one may argue the pitcher is the most important position in MLB, one may argue the PG is most important position in the NBA - the QB can be argued as the most important position in the NFL; however the NHL Goalie trumps all.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 13, 2020 17:24:34 GMT
Ok then, that's your answer. Every goalie who's won a cup in the last 40 years is great. With such a low bar, it's no wonder you think they're the most important player.
Feel free to answer my question anytime. How many teams are built around the goaltender compared to the QB.
Nice strawman there. Goalies play defence, QBs play offence so the two positions have different goals. To win a title in hockey it takes 16 wins, cant say the same for football so to even make a final youre goalie must stand out and perform. A goalie's job is reactionary. A QB has to go out and execute a game plan every week for his team to be competitive. A title takes 16 wins, but you can shit the bed 3 times out of 7 for four consecutive rounds and still win the title. Can't say that for football. When are you going to acknowledge the winning goalie is the Finals last year was absolutely terrible in games 3 and 6 and the Blues won anyway? Go look up the game summaries if you have to.
I'll ask you since frogs won't answer. Why are QBs consistently taken first in their respective drafts while goalies have been taken #1 only twice in the last 20 years? What do you know about hockey that every NHL GM doesn't?
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:26:54 GMT
I'm stating that the QB position is not the most important position in all of sports.
That the NHL goaltender is.
By pointing out that a HOFer and Pro Bowler on one of the best teams ever assembled had a “bad” game (which wasn’t a bad game)? No - my point is a HOF or Pro Bowl QB can have poor games and still win the Super Bowl - hence the position itself is really not important in the grand scheme of things.
However you must be an elite goaltender and be on top of your game - the position is a must to be elite in - to carry your team to 4 (not 1) victories in a Finals matchup.
Hence the NHL goaltender being the most important position in sport.
I know it's hard to follow as we're comparing apples and oranges (i.e. multiple different sports) - however IMO a team cannot win a Cup without a goalie having an elite year/series. A football team can win the SB with a QB having a subpar performance - making the position not all that important when comparing the 2 sports.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 13, 2020 17:27:46 GMT
When are you and northern going to respond to my post about the draft? When you can come up with an argument? Why are QBs taken #1 overall on a regular basis while a goalie was taken #1 only twice in the last 20 years? If the position is so vital, surely they would be coveted above all other positions?
You're just being yourself but the other guy legitimately thinks a great goalie has won the cup every season for the last 40 years. (His words).
Because NFL teams value the QB as the most important position in their sport - personally I value Offensive Lineman.
However - just because it may be the most important position in football (according to most) - it does not make it the most important position in all of sport where a team/sport relies so heavily on a position - such as the NHL and goalie.
The most important position in all of sports - is the NHL Goalie.
Just like one may argue the pitcher is the most important position in MLB, one may argue the PG is most important position in the NBA - the QB can be argued as the most important position in the NFL; however the NHL Goalie trumps all.
That doesn't answer the question. Why aren't goalies drafted #1 if they're so important?
And lol to your logic here. "QBs aren't important, the guy who protects the unimportant player, they're the most important ones."
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:28:28 GMT
Nice strawman there. Goalies play defence, QBs play offence so the two positions have different goals. To win a title in hockey it takes 16 wins, cant say the same for football so to even make a final youre goalie must stand out and perform. A goalie's job is reactionary. A QB has to go out and execute a game plan every week for his team to be competitive. A title takes 16 wins, but you can shit the bed 3 times out of 7 for four consecutive rounds and still win the title. Can't say that for football. When are you going to acknowledge the winning goalie is the Finals last year was absolutely terrible in games 3 and 6 and the Blues won anyway? Go look up the game summaries if you have to.
I'll ask you since frogs won't answer. Why are QBs consistently taken first in their respective drafts while goalies have been taken #1 only twice in the last 20 years? What do you know about hockey that every NHL GM doesn't?
I did answer.
It's on the other page
It's because in the NFL that position is regarded as the most valuable to most.
However that does not make it the most important position in all of sports.
Which is what the question asks.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:29:35 GMT
Because NFL teams value the QB as the most important position in their sport - personally I value Offensive Lineman.
However - just because it may be the most important position in football (according to most) - it does not make it the most important position in all of sport where a team/sport relies so heavily on a position - such as the NHL and goalie.
The most important position in all of sports - is the NHL Goalie.
Just like one may argue the pitcher is the most important position in MLB, one may argue the PG is most important position in the NBA - the QB can be argued as the most important position in the NFL; however the NHL Goalie trumps all.
That doesn't answer the question. Why aren't goalies drafted #1 if they're so important?
And lol to your logic here. "QBs aren't important, the guy who protects the unimportant player, they're the most important ones."
Tisk Tisk
Offensive lineman also open up gaps for the RB and give the QB time to hit WRS
To me - they're the most important players in football.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 13, 2020 17:32:21 GMT
By pointing out that a HOFer and Pro Bowler on one of the best teams ever assembled had a “bad” game (which wasn’t a bad game)? No - my point is a HOF or Pro Bowl QB can have poor games and still win the Super Bowl - hence the position itself is really not important in the grand scheme of things.
However you must be an elite goaltender to and be on top of your game - the position is a must to be elite in - to carry your team to 4 (not 1) victories in a Finals matchup.
Hence the NHL goaltender being the most important position in sport.
I know it's hard to follow as we're comparing apples and oranges (i.e. multiple different sports) - however IMO a team cannot win a Cup without an goalie haven't an elite year/series. A football team can win the SB with a QB having a subpar performance - making the position not all that important when comparing the 2 sports.
NFL teams don't get to the Super Bowl if the QB plays terribly, that's what you're (intentionally) forgetting.
So you think Binnington had an elite series last year? You think losing 3 of 7 games and looking awful in two of those losses is an elite performance?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 13, 2020 17:33:41 GMT
A goalie's job is reactionary. A QB has to go out and execute a game plan every week for his team to be competitive. A title takes 16 wins, but you can shit the bed 3 times out of 7 for four consecutive rounds and still win the title. Can't say that for football. When are you going to acknowledge the winning goalie is the Finals last year was absolutely terrible in games 3 and 6 and the Blues won anyway? Go look up the game summaries if you have to.
I'll ask you since frogs won't answer. Why are QBs consistently taken first in their respective drafts while goalies have been taken #1 only twice in the last 20 years? What do you know about hockey that every NHL GM doesn't?
I did answer.
It's on the other page
It's because in the NFL that position is regarded as the most valuable to most.
However that does not make it the most important position in all of sports.
Which is what the question asks.
Why aren't goalies taken #1 on a consistent basis? Twice in the last 20 years for the most important position in their sport, in all of sports?
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:35:27 GMT
I did answer.
It's on the other page
It's because in the NFL that position is regarded as the most valuable to most.
However that does not make it the most important position in all of sports.
Which is what the question asks.
Why aren't goalies taken #1 on a consistent basis? Twice in the last 20 years for the most important position in their sport, in all of sports? They don't grow on trees like QBs.
You'd have to look at the rosters
Perhaps the teams are comfortable with their goalies.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:36:45 GMT
No - my point is a HOF or Pro Bowl QB can have poor games and still win the Super Bowl - hence the position itself is really not important in the grand scheme of things.
However you must be an elite goaltender to and be on top of your game - the position is a must to be elite in - to carry your team to 4 (not 1) victories in a Finals matchup.
Hence the NHL goaltender being the most important position in sport.
I know it's hard to follow as we're comparing apples and oranges (i.e. multiple different sports) - however IMO a team cannot win a Cup without an goalie haven't an elite year/series. A football team can win the SB with a QB having a subpar performance - making the position not all that important when comparing the 2 sports.
NFL teams don't get to the Super Bowl if the QB plays terribly, that's what you're (intentionally) forgetting.
So you think Binnington had an elite series last year? You think losing 3 of 7 games and looking awful in two of those losses is an elite performance?
No - but I think winning 4 games against another elite team is 'Elite'
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 13, 2020 17:42:24 GMT
Why aren't goalies taken #1 on a consistent basis? Twice in the last 20 years for the most important position in their sport, in all of sports? They don't grow on trees like QBs.
You'd have to look at the rosters
Perhaps the teams are comfortable with their goalies.
QBs don't grow on trees, either. A lot of those #1 picks didn't amount to shit. Still, teams took them over every other player because they're the most important position in their sport.
Goalies don't grow on trees? Surely they must, northern said every champion in the last 40 years has had elite goalie play. You guys need to talk some stuff out.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:42:37 GMT
I'm learning an awful lot catching up on Super Bowls and just how important the QB position is! Bob Griese does it again! Gotta love this guy folks. He makes our list for the 2nd time. This time - Super Bowl VII - What an epic performance - 8 of 11 with an INT! Would be hard to get another warm body in there to pull that feat off and win a Super Bowl eh folks?
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 17:45:25 GMT
They don't grow on trees like QBs.
You'd have to look at the rosters
Perhaps the teams are comfortable with their goalies.
QBs don't grow on trees, either. A lot of those #1 picks didn't amount to shit. Still, teams took them over every other player because they're the most important position in their sport.
Goalies don't grow on trees? Surely they must, northern said every champion in the last 40 years has had elite goalie play. You guys need to talk some stuff out.
Sure they do - look at all the DI, DII and DIII colleges out there that produce QBs.
Same can't be said about goalies.
Much more schools have football programs as opposed to hockey.
Universities pump more money into football than hockey.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jun 13, 2020 17:52:36 GMT
NFL teams don't get to the Super Bowl if the QB plays terribly, that's what you're (intentionally) forgetting.
So you think Binnington had an elite series last year? You think losing 3 of 7 games and looking awful in two of those losses is an elite performance?
No - but I think winning 4 games against another elite team is 'Elite' So your answer is literally, "No, but yes." I love it. Frogs, you're the best. I guess that's where we'll have to leave it. I know you're fucking around anyway, but the other guy's honest argument flies in the face of both sports' team building philosophies. I hope the ridiculousness of your argument has convinced him of the truth better than the rest of us using common sense ever could.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 18:00:56 GMT
No - but I think winning 4 games against another elite team is 'Elite' So your answer is literally, "No, but yes." I love it. Frogs, you're the best. I guess that's where we'll have to leave it. I know you're fucking around anyway, but the other guy's honest argument flies in the face of both sports' team building philosophies. I hope the ridiculousness of your argument has convinced him of the truth better than the rest of us using common sense ever could.
So winning 4 games in a Stanley Cup Playoff against another elite team (arguably the 2nd best team in the league that year) does not impress you?
I'd argue if he was an average goalie - he wouldn't be able to come up with that feat.
So he must be pretty important to pull off 4 victories, no?
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Post by hi224 on Jun 13, 2020 18:02:11 GMT
Easily QB next question.
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Post by screamingtreefrogs on Jun 13, 2020 18:03:20 GMT
There you go Rey, Frank and Klaw - You've got hi224 on your side - make you feel better now?
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Post by hi224 on Jun 13, 2020 18:05:40 GMT
There you go Rey, Frank and Klaw - You've got hi224 on your side - make you feel better now? You love stirring that pot all day.
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Post by klawrencio79 on Jun 13, 2020 18:11:22 GMT
There you go Rey, Frank and Klaw - You've got hi224 on your side - make you feel better now? He kinda cancels out northern, who is among the most minimally exceptional of us all.
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