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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 10, 2020 12:00:11 GMT
... infants were excluded from automobile travel whenever possible before restraints were available and died less as a result. What utter nonsense ! Do you imagine that they were left home to fend for themselves when the rest of the family went somewhere in a car ?
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 10, 2020 12:46:19 GMT
You know that that, and the reference to Trump's similar logic, was intended as a joke, right? Apologies: there's a missing word here it should have read 'a car which is safe is not as likely to cause death or injury than one isn't' Please quote me where I say that. But you won't be able to. No one is disputing the variance between states, the likely reasons for much of which I gave last time. But that does not mean that driving an unsafe vehicle leads to the same risk as driving a safe one, whether for children or adults. Which is, still, the point.
First thing to say is that correlation is not the same as causation. Second, that actually the overall totals for road mortalities increased or remained more or less the same, right up to 1989. Since then, yes, the number of deaths, and deaths relative to the total US population, has declined over most of the previous two decades; but even then the trend reversed in 2015 and continued to move upward in 2016. The falls in deaths, it is arguable, is partly due to cars being built to safer standards, while the notion that it might be due to testing standards being relaxed is counter intuitive and still remains to be demonstated. But bottom line: there has been no consistent fall since your moment of 1976, with peaks and troughs instead. Sorry about that. I hope that helps. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year#:~:text=For%202016%20specifically%2C%20National%20Highway,killing%2032%2C999%2C%20and%20injuring%202%2C239%2C000. So when we talk about infant deaths, the overall death rate is down, but when we talk about safety inspections it's up? Did you want to pick one today? Is there some resolution to the obvious conflict you can expound?
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 10, 2020 12:48:43 GMT
... infants were excluded from automobile travel whenever possible before restraints were available and died less as a result. What utter nonsense ! Do you imagine that they were left home to fend for themselves when the rest of the family went somewhere in a car ? Babysitting. Perhaps you've heard of it.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 10, 2020 12:50:30 GMT
What utter nonsense ! Do you imagine that they were left home to fend for themselves when the rest of the family went somewhere in a car ? Exactly. I grew up in the era before seatbelts. I remember riding standing up in the front bench-seat with my hands on the dashboard. College kids.
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Post by kls on Jul 10, 2020 12:59:14 GMT
What utter nonsense ! Do you imagine that they were left home to fend for themselves when the rest of the family went somewhere in a car ? Exactly. I grew up in the era before seatbelts. I remember riding standing up in the front bench-seat with my hands on the dashboard. I was born in 68. I believe that's right around when they became mandatory, is that correct?
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 10, 2020 13:56:30 GMT
What utter nonsense ! Do you imagine that they were left home to fend for themselves when the rest of the family went somewhere in a car ? Babysitting. Perhaps you've heard of it. You are being ridiculous ... but you know that !
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jul 10, 2020 13:57:52 GMT
What utter nonsense ! Do you imagine that they were left home to fend for themselves when the rest of the family went somewhere in a car ? Exactly. I grew up in the era before seatbelts. I remember riding standing up in the front bench-seat with my hands on the dashboard. and the kids seats that were hooked over the front seat and had a little steering wheel so junior could "drive".
Me thinks the OP lives under a bridge maybe.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 10, 2020 18:43:13 GMT
You know that that, and the reference to Trump's similar logic, was intended as a joke, right? Apologies: there's a missing word here it should have read 'a car which is safe is not as likely to cause death or injury than one isn't' Please quote me where I say that. But you won't be able to. No one is disputing the variance between states, the likely reasons for much of which I gave last time. But that does not mean that driving an unsafe vehicle leads to the same risk as driving a safe one, whether for children or adults. Which is, still, the point.
First thing to say is that correlation is not the same as causation. Second, that actually the overall totals for road mortalities increased or remained more or less the same, right up to 1989. Since then, yes, the number of deaths, and deaths relative to the total US population, has declined over most of the previous two decades; but even then the trend reversed in 2015 and continued to move upward in 2016. The falls in deaths, it is arguable, is partly due to cars being built to safer standards, while the notion that it might be due to testing standards being relaxed is counter intuitive and still remains to be demonstrated. But bottom line: there has been no consistent fall since your moment of 1976, with peaks and troughs instead. Sorry about that. I hope that helps. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in_U.S._by_year#:~:text=For%202016%20specifically%2C%20National%20Highway,killing%2032%2C999%2C%20and%20injuring%202%2C239%2C000. So when we talk about infant deaths, the overall death rate is down, but when we talk about safety inspections it's up? Did you want to pick one today? Is there some resolution to the obvious conflict you can expound? I have not claimed that in the US inspections are up, saying instead that "no one is disputing the variance between states". In the case of overall US death rates I said, again just last time, that "there has been no consistent fall since your moment of 1976, with peaks and troughs instead." Maybe you need to polish up your advanced reading skills? Since you have substantiated barely a single one of your claims while I have done, in virtually every instance, and also you agreed earlier with the statement that "child restraints are a vital passive safety system and their effect cannot be underestimated", I feel my points have now been made. Sorry the thread didn't work out for you. Again. You also did not answer whether, if you had a child in the car, would you strap it in - or leave it just laying or sitting loose in the back? A simple yes or no will do. Evasion noted.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jul 11, 2020 2:15:44 GMT
So when we talk about infant deaths, the overall death rate is down, but when we talk about safety inspections it's up? Did you want to pick one today? Is there some resolution to the obvious conflict you can expound? I have not claimed that in the US inspections are up, saying instead that "no one is disputing the variance between states". In the case of overall US death rates I said, again just last time, that "there has been no consistent fall since your moment of 1976, with peaks and troughs instead." Maybe you need to polish up your advanced reading skills? Since you have substantiated barely a single one of your claims while I have done, in virtually every instance, and also you agreed earlier with the statement that "child restraints are a vital passive safety system and their effect cannot be underestimated", I feel my points have now been made. Sorry the thread didn't work out for you. Again. You also did not answer whether, if you had a child in the car, would you strap it in - or leave it just laying or sitting loose in the back? A simple yes or no will do. Evasion noted. It's obvious you would not admit it if you made a mistake. It is also obvious that you miss the point of personal responsibility being a key factor in the effectiveness of any imposed regulations. You are not being effective in making people more responsible because all you accomplish is having them turn over responsibility to people who can't be there.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 11, 2020 18:55:38 GMT
I have not claimed that in the US inspections are up, saying instead that "no one is disputing the variance between states". In the case of overall US death rates I said, again just last time, that "there has been no consistent fall since your moment of 1976, with peaks and troughs instead." Maybe you need to polish up your advanced reading skills? Since you have substantiated barely a single one of your claims while I have done, in virtually every instance, and also you agreed earlier with the statement that "child restraints are a vital passive safety system and their effect cannot be underestimated", I feel my points have now been made. Sorry the thread didn't work out for you. Again. You also did not answer whether, if you had a child in the car, would you strap it in - or leave it just laying or sitting loose in the back? A simple yes or no will do. Evasion noted. It's obvious you would not admit it if you made a mistake. It is also obvious that you miss the point of personal responsibility being a key factor in the effectiveness of any imposed regulations. You are not being effective in making people more responsible because all you accomplish is having them turn over responsibility to people who can't be there. Another evasion, and non-sequitur noted to boot.
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