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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Jul 11, 2020 18:31:47 GMT
Yesterday I was thinking that, while it was still an immature and slightly underdeveloped character, the main traits of Ash were already on there anyway, in the first Evil Dead movie.
He already "interacted" with the Deadites like they would be human beings (unprecedented aspect for an horror movie IMHO)... talking with them in a serious way. He was brave enough to fight Evil Linda, Evil Cheryl and Evil Scott. Granted, he wasn't still the character we loved in ED2, Army and AvED... but the core within him was still intact and recognizable.
If you pretend that ED2 and the sequels were never made, and Ash was just the lead character of a standalone horror movie like "The Evil Dead", do you think the character would have become "cultish" or at least well-known the same? |
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 11, 2020 19:17:55 GMT
Most likely not.
At best he would be in the Johnny category.
"They're coming to get you Barbara."
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Jul 11, 2020 19:56:50 GMT
Most likely not. At best he would be in the Johnny category. "They're coming to get you Barbara." Johnny? He didn't fight any zombie/Living Dead. ED1 Ash is like Ben. |
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 11, 2020 20:05:45 GMT
Johnny? He didn't fight any zombie/Living Dead. ED1 Ash is like Ben. I mean with the quips etc. Ben didn't have any memorable humor lines while Johnny had the ones people often quote.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jul 11, 2020 20:30:54 GMT
Yesterday I was thinking that, while it was still an immature and slightly underdeveloped character, the main traits of Ash were already on there anyway, in the first Evil Dead movie.
He already "interacted" with the Deadites like they would be human beings (unprecedented aspect for an horror movie IMHO)... talking with them in a serious way. He was brave enough to fight Evil Linda, Evil Cheryl and Evil Scott. Granted, he wasn't still the character we loved in ED2, Army and AvED... but the core within him was still intact and recognizable.
If you pretend that ED2 and the sequels were never made, and Ash was just the lead character of a standalone horror movie like "The Evil Dead", do you think the character would have become "cultish" or at least well-known the same? No. I think maybe Bruce Campbell and Sam Raimi might have gone on to make some other memorable stuff in a more comedic style if they hadn't made Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness, so Bruce Campbell might have had some status anyway, but I don't think he's especially memorable as an actor or a character in the first movie. |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jul 11, 2020 20:47:16 GMT
Asking if Ash would have become a cult icon without the sequels is like asking if Freddy would have become a cult icon if Craven just made a movie about a local child killer in a boiler room.
The chainsaw hand, oneliners, and playing into Bruce's personality are what made Ash so memorable. Ash basically had the traditional final girl role in the first ED only gender swapped. I think at best he'd be looked at like an Alice Hardy.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Jul 11, 2020 21:07:35 GMT
Asking if Ash would have become a cult icon without the sequels is like asking if Freddy would have become a cult icon if Craven just made a movie about a local child killer in a boiler room. The chainsaw hand, oneliners, and playing into Bruce's personality are what made Ash so memorable. Ash basically had the traditional final girl role in the first ED only gender swapped. I think at best he'd be looked at like an Alice Hardy. I think Freddy Krueger still could have to some degree without sequels. He's the colorful villain character in what still might have been a classic horror movie. Nobody cares about the Texas Chainsaw sequels but Leatherface still looms large, for instance. |
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Jul 11, 2020 21:10:00 GMT
Asking if Ash would have become a cult icon without the sequels is like asking if Freddy would have become a cult icon if Craven just made a movie about a local child killer in a boiler room. The chainsaw hand, oneliners, and playing into Bruce's personality are what made Ash so memorable. Ash basically had the traditional final girl role in the first ED only gender swapped. I think at best he'd be looked at like an Alice Hardy. I kinda agree, but Bruce's actor performance was 100% excellent and intense anyway, and Ash already had some "unusual quality", in the way the character gradually evolved from the beginning of the movie until the end. He also stole the lead character's "crown" from Scott, and that was another unprecedented aspect in "The Evil Dead". |
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Jul 11, 2020 21:20:30 GMT
Asking if Ash would have become a cult icon without the sequels is like asking if Freddy would have become a cult icon if Craven just made a movie about a local child killer in a boiler room. The chainsaw hand, oneliners, and playing into Bruce's personality are what made Ash so memorable. Ash basically had the traditional final girl role in the first ED only gender swapped. I think at best he'd be looked at like an Alice Hardy. I think Freddy Krueger still could have to some degree without sequels. He's the colorful villain character in what still might have been a classic horror movie. Nobody cares about the Texas Chainsaw sequels but Leatherface still looms large, for instance. No no, I meant if Wes only told the story of *before" Freddy got burned and became a dream ghost. Ie, it was just Bob Englund stabbing 5 year olds in a factory for 90 minutes. |
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Post by James on Jul 12, 2020 0:11:33 GMT
Most likely not. The reason Ash became famous in the horror world is because of his quirks in the sequels. Him in the original kinda seemed like any ordinary final girl/guy, even if his overall personality isn’t technically changed. Everyone knows him as the guy with the chainsaw for a hand as well, which is a contributing factor to his cult status.
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Jul 13, 2020 8:16:58 GMT
Asking if Ash would have become a cult icon without the sequels is like asking if Freddy would have become a cult icon if Craven just made a movie about a local child killer in a boiler room. The chainsaw hand, oneliners, and playing into Bruce's personality are what made Ash so memorable. Ash basically had the traditional final girl role in the first ED only gender swapped. I think at best he'd be looked at like an Alice Hardy. Very true and well put. Personally, I'm a bigger fan of The Evil Dead than its sequel, but I can't deny that Evil Dead II is the film that gives us Ash the horror icon, without whom there could be no Army of Darkness or Ash Vs Evil Dead. |
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Post by darkreviewer2013 on Jul 22, 2020 7:59:11 GMT
Yesterday I was thinking that, while it was still an immature and slightly underdeveloped character, the main traits of Ash were already on there anyway, in the first Evil Dead movie.
He already "interacted" with the Deadites like they would be human beings (unprecedented aspect for an horror movie IMHO)... talking with them in a serious way. He was brave enough to fight Evil Linda, Evil Cheryl and Evil Scott. Granted, he wasn't still the character we loved in ED2, Army and AvED... but the core within him was still intact and recognizable.
If you pretend that ED2 and the sequels were never made, and Ash was just the lead character of a standalone horror movie like "The Evil Dead", do you think the character would have become "cultish" or at least well-known the same? Not a chance. While it's true that his core traits were already on display in the first movie (albeit in a highly toned down manner), the character wasn't really played for laughs and the film focused heavily on the gore and violence that he was being subjected to. He was basically just a Final Guy. Sure, he had a bit of spunk, but lacked the charisma of his later incarnations. |
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Post by Martin Brundle - Martinfly on Nov 22, 2020 14:08:31 GMT
I DISAGREE on some aspects.
I think Ash(ley) was innovative for two main reasons:
1- It was the very first time in horror movies where a "normal" guy - with no magic powers or a role related to the world of the occult - was pitted against a DEMON.
2- There was no horror movie before where they switch to a new lead character halfway of it, and make the victim/weaker character the new hero of the story.
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