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Post by Salzmank on Sept 5, 2017 0:38:35 GMT
Sad to see that @eriknight ("Morpheus") is gone; he and I exchanged a number of comments both about the lovely Miss Francis here and about Hitchcock on the "survivor game" thread. spiderwortJust wondering: have you been deleting some old posts? I'm going through some old threads, and I see a number of your posts are missing. No problem, just wondering. |
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Post by spiderwort on Sept 5, 2017 1:42:07 GMT
spiderwort Just wondering: have you been deleting some old posts? I'm going through some old threads, and I see a number of your posts are missing. No problem, just wondering. Yes and no. Because so many posts are quoted in the responses, I've been deleting a lot of my original posts, thinking it would streamline the thread and make it easier to read. Going through some old threads, I'd see one of my responses, then find a reply to it a page or two later that quoted my OP. I found it annoying, so I went back and deleted the original post. Maybe my thought about that isn't a good one. I haven't looked back to see. I'll take a look and see how I feel about it. Honestly, I was just trying to streamline things. |
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Post by Salzmank on Sept 5, 2017 1:44:16 GMT
spiderwortOK, that's what I thought, Spider--just wondering, and I didn't want your always-helpful contributions minimized. Thanks for letting me know.
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Post by petrolino on Sept 12, 2017 22:11:46 GMT
Great director.
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Post by Salzmank on Sept 12, 2017 23:11:55 GMT
You can say that again!  Do you have any favorites, by any chance? |
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Post by louise on Sept 14, 2017 17:46:10 GMT
Trouble In paradise is my favourite of his films by far, and in fact is probably my all time
Ninotchka is very funny at first, but gets too serious once she goes all soft.
Shop Around the Corner is fun, though again it gets a bit too sentimental for my taste towards the end.
cluny Brown is another one i like, very amusing.
One hour With You is a quite amusing musical.
Trouble In paradise though is a long long way ahead of all the others for me.
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Post by Salzmank on Sept 14, 2017 21:21:07 GMT
louiseTrouble in Paradise is my favorite Lubitsch film as well, though there are some other strong contenders for me. I still have never warmed up to Ninotchka, unfortunately. I think Shop Around the Corner holds the place for me that Ninotchka holds for many: I don't see it as too sentimental, in a way, as I find the emotions very, very real even in spite of the comic artificiality of the dialogue (which is not a bad thing--comedy is artificial by its very nature!). Have you seen Heaven Can Wait or Design for Living, by any chance? The latter in particular greatly divides audiences, often because it is so different from Coward's play, but I feel that Lubitsch and Hecht actually (remarkably) improve on Coward here.
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Post by petrolino on Sept 16, 2017 1:33:06 GMT
You can say that again! Do you have any favorites, by any chance? Hi Salzmank. I think I'd go with these as my favourites, but there's many more I'd to see ... Madame DuBarry (1919) The Smiling Lieutenant (1931) Design For Living (1933) Bluebeard's 8th Wife (1938) Ninotchka (1939) The Shop Around The Corner (1940) Heaven Can Wait (1943) |
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Post by teleadm on Sept 16, 2017 18:28:10 GMT
After watching Heaven Can Wait, one of the most charming american movies made.  He is not sick, he's drunk! scene. Louis Calhearn is so funny, saying whenever there is trouble, keep a stiff upper lip, as if that would solve everything. |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jun 29, 2021 3:51:59 GMT
spiderwort Just wondering: have you been deleting some old posts? I'm going through some old threads, and I see a number of your posts are missing. No problem, just wondering. Yes and no. Because so many posts are quoted in the responses, I've been deleting a lot of my original posts, thinking it would streamline the thread and make it easier to read. Going through some old threads, I'd see one of my responses, then find a reply to it a page or two later that quoted my OP. I found it annoying, so I went back and deleted the original post. Maybe my thought about that isn't a good one. I haven't looked back to see. I'll take a look and see how I feel about it. Honestly, I was just trying to streamline things. Surprise! It's a thread from 2017, risen from the dead. No, let's say roused from slumber instead; sounds nicer. I recently had occasion to go hunting for something on an old thread, and became caught up in re-reading so many lively and informative exchanges on that and other threads from yore. And I noticed the same thing Salzmank did nearly four years ago: quoted excerpts from spiderwort posts, but not the posts themselves. If you're still engaged in a program of streamlining, I entreat thee, in the gentlest possible terms: knock it off, willya? I ask not only for the sake of preserving a complete record, and that of the progression of discussions (as Waldo Lydecker described it, a sense of the fitness of things), but because I, for one (and I'm sure I have plenty of company), enjoy reading every word you write, and hate to lose any of 'em. If I had a banner to unfurl at the head of a sea of CFB demonstrators marching down a boulevard, it would read: Save The Words Of Spiderwort! I thank you.
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Post by louise on Jun 29, 2021 6:56:29 GMT
louise Trouble in Paradise is my favorite Lubitsch film as well, though there are some other strong contenders for me. I still have never warmed up to Ninotchka, unfortunately. I think Shop Around the Corner holds the place for me that Ninotchka holds for many: I don't see it as too sentimental, in a way, as I find the emotions very, very real even in spite of the comic artificiality of the dialogue (which is not a bad thing--comedy is artificial by its very nature!). Have you seen Heaven Can Wait or Design for Living, by any chance? The latter in particular greatly divides audiences, often because it is so different from Coward's play, but I feel that Lubitsch and Hecht actually (remarkably) improve on Coward here. Only just seen this! I did quite like Design for Living, though not much of Noel Coward is left in it. Private Lives, with Robert Montgomery and Norma Shearer, is a much better film of a Coward play, keeping mostly to his dialogue. Heaven Can Wait again has some amusing moments but gets a bit too sentimental for my personal taste.
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Post by marshamae on Jun 29, 2021 15:45:27 GMT
I may actually prefer Mamoulian's musical remake, Silk Stockings. ("What? Blasphemy!")
Whew. I have always preferred Silk Stocking Cyd Charisse is amazingly good as the icy NINOTCHKA. It may be blasphemy to say she was better than Garbo. Then Silk stockings was lighter in tone and they threw out all that tangled junk about the father. Finally replacing the countess with Janet Paige worked better. Her coarse sexuality is so unappealing to me but it was the contrats the film needed. Then the musical numbers brightened it up . Finally Fred Astaire was such a light touch compared to Melvin DOUGLAS.
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Post by marshamae on Jun 29, 2021 15:58:06 GMT
SHOP AROUND THE CORNER is probably my favorite Lubitsch. It is unquestionably the best version of this story. The dark story arc of MR Matusceck give the film gravitas and reminds us we are dealing with real people. . Every re telling that erases this element does the story a disservice.
It is funny to me that Jimmy Stewart , always and forever a Hoosier, seems perfectly at home at Matusceck and company with so many different accents and styles. It underscores the multinational character of Central Europe. In another of my favorites, Jimmy Stewart stands out like a sore thumb, his Hoosier- ness undercutting his fine performance. I can only think that it is Lubitsch who makes the difference, somehow blending all those distinctive types and allowing them to speak as themselves and still seem to be part of the same whole.
Other Lubitsch favorites?
Too many I have not seen, but I love TO BE OR NOT TO BE, NINOTCHKA,
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 29, 2021 19:16:31 GMT
I may actually prefer Mamoulian's musical remake, Silk Stockings. ("What? Blasphemy!") Whew. I have always preferred Silk Stocking Cyd Charisse is amazingly good as the icy NINOTCHKA. It may be blasphemy to say she was better than Garbo. Then Silk stockings was lighter in tone and they threw out all that tangled junk about the father. Finally replacing the countess with Janet Paige worked better. Her coarse sexuality is so unappealing to me but it was the contrats the film needed. Then the musical numbers brightened it up . Finally Fred Astaire was such a light touch compared to Melvin DOUGLAS. Heh, funnily enough I’m not sure I agree with myself anymore!  Or, at least, Ninotchka and Silk Stockings now come off as about even to me. Like you, I’m just not that wild about Garbo’s performance… Every time I see it I wonder why Melvyn Douglas (who I think is pretty darn good in a role that seems to have been—and reportedly was—written for William Powell) falls for her. The weird thing about Ninotchka for me is that I feel like I should love it—Lubitsch directing, a Wilder and Brackett script, fun storyline—but it just never takes off for me. Like you, I prefer Charisse in the Ninotchka role. And Astaire’s as good as always. But so much of the movie seems so stagey to me now, and with a few exceptions (“All of You,” some lyrics in “It’s a Chemical Reaction, That’s All”), the score sounds to me like late, tired Porter. “Stereophonic Sound” seems particularly pointless to me and goes on forever. Maybe one day I’ll get Ninotchka. Maybe one day…
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 29, 2021 19:39:00 GMT
Since I posted in this thread in 2017, I’ve rewatched Cluny Brown and fallen under its spell. Jennifer Jones is adorable and Helen Walker very beautiful in it. And that dialogue! In addition to “squirrels to the nuts” and others, there’s this gem of an exchange:
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Post by timshelboy on Jun 30, 2021 15:25:56 GMT
NINOTCHKA is the one I rated highest but unseen for 40 years...
YAY to TROUBLE IN PARADISE, TO BE OR NOT TO BE and CLUNY BROWN
Quite liked BLUEBEARDS EIGHT WIFE - better than rep
Not quite to DESIGN FOR LIVING and HEAVEN CAN WAIT or THE SHOP AROUND THE CORNER and A ROYAL SCANDAL and BROKEN LULLABY and THE SMILING LIEUTENANT
NO to LADY WINDERMERES FAN and SO THIS IS PARIS and THE LOVE PARADE and THE LADY IN ERMINE and THAT UNCERTAIN FEELING
and Yes another JEWEL ROBBERY fanboy!
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jun 30, 2021 17:28:07 GMT
I may actually prefer Mamoulian's musical remake, Silk Stockings. ("What? Blasphemy!") Whew. I have always preferred Silk Stocking Cyd Charisse is amazingly good as the icy NINOTCHKA. It may be blasphemy to say she was better than Garbo. Then Silk stockings was lighter in tone and they threw out all that tangled junk about the father. Finally replacing the countess with Janet Paige worked better. Her coarse sexuality is so unappealing to me but it was the contrats the film needed. Then the musical numbers brightened it up . Finally Fred Astaire was such a light touch compared to Melvin DOUGLAS. Heh, funnily enough I’m not sure I agree with myself anymore! Or, at least, Ninotchka and Silk Stockings now come off as about even to me. Like you, I’m just not that wild about Garbo’s performance… Every time I see it I wonder why Melvyn Douglas (who I think is pretty darn good in a role that seems to have been—and reportedly was—written for William Powell) falls for her. The weird thing about Ninotchka for me is that I feel like I should love it—Lubitsch directing, a Wilder and Brackett script, fun storyline—but it just never takes off for me. Like you, I prefer Charisse in the Ninotchka role. And Astaire’s as good as always. But so much of the movie seems so stagey to me now, and with a few exceptions (“All of You,” some lyrics in “It’s a Chemical Reaction, That’s All”), the score sounds to me like late, tired Porter. “Stereophonic Sound” seems particularly pointless to me and goes on forever. Maybe one day I’ll get Ninotchka. Maybe one day… I think it's no more complicated than their being avatars for (or should that be "of") the clash of cultures. He's carefree, frivolous, hedonistic; she's disciplined, rigid, unemotional. To him, she represents an irresistible challenge, so sure is he of the humanity he senses lurking beneath her, shall we say, iron curtain. It's for this reason that Douglas works so well for me as Leon. In his own refined, mid-Atlantic way, Powell embodied self confidence onscreen that was the match of Gable's. Douglas, in his puppy-ish manner, simply has to work harder, and it becomes a real contest of wills.
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 30, 2021 18:00:47 GMT
I think it's no more complicated than their being avatars for (or should that be "of") the clash of cultures. He's carefree, frivolous, hedonistic; she's disciplined, rigid, unemotional. To him, she represents an irresistible challenge, so sure is he of the humanity he senses lurking beneath her, shall we say, iron curtain. It's for this reason that Douglas works so well for me as Leon. In his own refined, mid-Atlantic way, Powell embodied self confidence onscreen that was the match of Gable's. Douglas, in his puppy-ish manner, simply has to work harder, and it becomes a real contest of wills. You may well be right: Leon may see Ninotchka more as a challenge than as a potential lover. And that may be one reason for my coolness to the movie: For years I heard it was the great Lubitsch romantic comedy, and it’s less romantic than most Lubitsch works. I can buy Alfred Kralik and Klara Novak much more as romantic partners—even though Shop Around the Corner ends before they’re really together—than I can Leon and Ninotchka. Fair point on Douglas vs. Powell, though there’s a touch of a less-self-confident Powell about his performances in Private Detective 62, I Love You Again, and Love Crazy. Still, I agree that Douglas works well for the film.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jun 30, 2021 19:02:36 GMT
I think it's no more complicated than their being avatars for (or should that be "of") the clash of cultures. He's carefree, frivolous, hedonistic; she's disciplined, rigid, unemotional. To him, she represents an irresistible challenge, so sure is he of the humanity he senses lurking beneath her, shall we say, iron curtain. It's for this reason that Douglas works so well for me as Leon. In his own refined, mid-Atlantic way, Powell embodied self confidence onscreen that was the match of Gable's. Douglas, in his puppy-ish manner, simply has to work harder, and it becomes a real contest of wills. You may well be right: Leon may see Ninotchka more as a challenge than as a potential lover. And that may be one reason for my coolness to the movie: For years I heard it was the great Lubitsch romantic comedy, and it’s less romantic than most Lubitsch works. I can buy Alfred Kralik and Klara Novak much more as romantic partners—even though Shop Around the Corner ends before they’re really together—than I can Leon and Ninotchka. It's interesting the way thematic threads run through given film makers' work. With Alfred and Klara, he, too, uncovers her hidden dimensions, but it's quite by accident in that case. And going back to Ninotchka, the thing that first attracts Leon's attention - her incongruity in the milieu with which he's familiar - is explicitly articulated by Monroe in Wilder's later The Seven Year Itch, when she describes attraction to a theoretical guy in the corner that she notices because "he's kind of nervous and shy" amidst the "I'm-so-handsome-you-can't-resist-me" men to which she's accustomed. Indeed, Powell did display his less-confident moments. I don't remember Private Detective 62 well enough, but I do recall I Love You Again and Love Crazy (and I'd add Double Wedding), in which he reaches states of what might be called goofy desperation. That's a quality he shared with Cary Grant: equally comfortable with self-assuredness or absolute clownishness. Ya think?
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Or, at least, Ninotchka and Silk Stockings now come off as about even to me. 
