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Post by moviemouth on Jul 25, 2020 2:49:12 GMT
Night of the Living Dead has no cgi. They did make-up. You are comparing apples to oranges. That is a bad argument. You are saying that it must be the best it could have been for the time because it was the first to do it. That holds no water.
Just look up all CGI fire characters from 1994 and get back to me. I'll wait, because you won't find much if anything. There was very little need for cgi fire in those days.
You are done. There is no point in talking to you anymore because you are being extremely dishonest now.
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Post by dazz on Jul 25, 2020 2:58:32 GMT
My guess is it's another contractual thing, they couldn't just openly make a bullshit movie no one could see and let Marvel know thats what they were doing, if they could every studio that owned Marvel IP rights would be making a $2m pile of schlock every 5 years as a TV movie just to appease their contracts and keep the films in house but they didn't, most probably due to Marvel being more on the ball after the Fantastic Four incident. But also lots of stuff gets marketing and never materialises, I mean Friday The 13th had print advertising before they even had a movie, Sean Cunningham just thought the name worked and could sell so he took out ads for a movie he didn't even have a script for yet. Question is how much advertising did they have? they could have blown $500k on advertising just to sell the ruse that they were trying to make a real film, if they spent $2m on the film and $500k on fake ads they would be in the money once Fox picked up the rights to make and distribute the films. It's no more odd than when people option the rights to a book, TV show, foreign film, video game or even just normal scripts and what have you, then still don't do anything with them and let their option run out, so then the IP or script can be optioned to someone else by the rights hold. Strange means something out of the ordinary. So it fits imo. As I said, this is the only case I have ever seen of a movie that was never meant to be released having a trailer on theatrically released films. That is the only point I am making. Sure, there is print marketing for movies that never materialize, but that isn't the same as having theatrical trailers. When I say strange, I mean strange to me btw. Isn't that what everyone means when they say strange. Someone says they think a foot fetish is strange they are saying it sounds not normal. They have no stats on it and don't claim to. I now know something I didn't before and is a little less strange to me now. That's fair, I guess I never found it strange due to knowing it was only made to keep the IP before I found out that it was made without any intentions of it ever being seen, also I am probably thinking about it more with my current understanding of things rather than how I thought about it when I first heard about all of this years ago. Plus I guess I am just used to Hollywood being strange, out of the ordinary is the ordinary for those yahoo's, I mean they made an Emoji movie and had Patrick Stewart voice the poop emoji.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 25, 2020 3:12:04 GMT
You are done. There is no point in talking to you anymore because you are being extremely dishonest now. lol how am I dishonest? There was no human torch like cgi done then. I am not saying the cgi is wonderful-just that it isn't bargain basement for 1994. If they wanted to be bargain basement-why hire Optic Nerve (I am sure they were cheaper than some others but still)?
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 25, 2020 3:15:27 GMT
Strange means something out of the ordinary. So it fits imo. As I said, this is the only case I have ever seen of a movie that was never meant to be released having a trailer on theatrically released films. That is the only point I am making. Sure, there is print marketing for movies that never materialize, but that isn't the same as having theatrical trailers. When I say strange, I mean strange to me btw. Isn't that what everyone means when they say strange. Someone says they think a foot fetish is strange they are saying it sounds not normal. They have no stats on it and don't claim to. I now know something I didn't before and is a little less strange to me now. That's fair, I guess I never found it strange due to knowing it was only made to keep the IP before I found out that it was made without any intentions of it ever being seen, also I am probably thinking about it more with my current understanding of things rather than how I thought about it when I first heard about all of this years ago. Plus I guess I am just used to Hollywood being strange, out of the ordinary is the ordinary for those yahoo's, I mean they made an Emoji movie and had Patrick Stewart voice the poop emoji. Oh, I am aware of Hollywood being strange but in the ways I am aware of. I understand where you are coming from. You still haven't addressed the theatrical trailer aspect though, which is my entire stance on why it is strange. That is most definitely not something that is normal. When is the last movie that had a theatrical trailer for a movie that was never released? I am sure there are examples, but it is not the typical practice in Hollywood.
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 25, 2020 3:22:02 GMT
You are done. There is no point in talking to you anymore because you are being extremely dishonest now. lol how am I dishonest? There was no human torch like cgi done then. I am not saying the cgi is wonderful-just that it isn't bargain basement for 1994. If they wanted to be bargain basement-why hire Optic Nerve (I am sure they were cheaper than some others but still)?
I spoke too soon while watching the documentary. The first cgi guy was fired and then they got a much better cgi guy, but then the money ran out and the couldn't enhance the cgi to their liking. That still doesn't change anything about how crappy the cgi is (it more explains why the cgi is so crappy) and it doesn't change your dishonest response.
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Post by dazz on Jul 25, 2020 3:26:34 GMT
That's fair, I guess I never found it strange due to knowing it was only made to keep the IP before I found out that it was made without any intentions of it ever being seen, also I am probably thinking about it more with my current understanding of things rather than how I thought about it when I first heard about all of this years ago. Plus I guess I am just used to Hollywood being strange, out of the ordinary is the ordinary for those yahoo's, I mean they made an Emoji movie and had Patrick Stewart voice the poop emoji. Oh, I am aware of Hollywood being strange but in the ways I am aware of. I understand where you are coming from. You still haven't addressed the theatrical trailer aspect though, which is my entire stance on why it is strange. That is most definitely not something that is normal. When is the last movie that had a theatrical trailer for a movie that was never released? I am sure there are examples, but it is not the typical practice in Hollywood. I kind of did, I don't know how big a theatrical trailer push it got or how much it cost, my guess it's a legal thing to skate around their licensing deal with Marvel, you think the guy who owns the rights to Superman's origin makes like $20m anytime a movie uses that in their Superman story, so imagine how much someone can charge for the full rights to the F4 films, or could before they had struck out 3 times, so if they spent $500k-1m putting out a bunch of movie trailers for it they would have prob made their money back and a load of profit just off of the first movie Fox made. But there probably are a lot of these that maybe happened locally, or were for original IP's which when they didn't come out no one ever thought about, Fantastic Four people rememeber because of the existing IP and the later movies, sort of like how people know and care about the whole mess about the Superman Live movie in the 90's, countless movies are in development and fall apart all the time, but that was a Superman movie with Nic Cage so people remember it years later, thousands of other movies that went the same way no one knew or cared about.
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Post by dazz on Jul 25, 2020 3:34:36 GMT
According to wikipedia the movie was actually meant to be released but Avi Arad when he heard about the low budget movie coming out brought the rights to the film from the company to prevent it being released, he brought it for $2m doubling the amount they paid to make the movie, so that's interesting.
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 25, 2020 3:34:37 GMT
Oh, I am aware of Hollywood being strange but in the ways I am aware of. I understand where you are coming from. You still haven't addressed the theatrical trailer aspect though, which is my entire stance on why it is strange. That is most definitely not something that is normal. When is the last movie that had a theatrical trailer for a movie that was never released? I am sure there are examples, but it is not the typical practice in Hollywood. I kind of did, I don't know how big a theatrical trailer push it got or how much it cost, my guess it's a legal thing to skate around their licensing deal with Marvel, you think the guy who owns the rights to Superman's origin makes like $20m anytime a movie uses that in their Superman story, so imagine how much someone can charge for the full rights to the F4 films, or could before they had struck out 3 times, so if they spent $500k-1m putting out a bunch of movie trailers for it they would have prob made their money back and a load of profit just off of the first movie Fox made. But there probably are a lot of these that maybe happened locally, or were for original IP's which when they didn't come out no one ever thought about, Fantastic Four people rememeber because of the existing IP and the later movies, sort of like how people know and care about the whole mess about the Superman Live movie in the 90's, countless movies are in development and fall apart all the time, but that was a Superman movie with Nic Cage so people remember it years later, thousands of other movies that went the same way no one knew or cared about. I must have missed you talking about it. I guess what you say makes sense, though I still don't completely understand your point. I do remember the Nic Cage Superman logos though and that movies was meant to be made as far as I'm aware and then everything just fell apart. I would remember F4 even if it wasn't for the other F4 movies, because I was really excited for the movie when I saw the trailer back in 1994. Maybe there is some cognitive dissonance on my part because of that.
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 25, 2020 3:37:00 GMT
According to wikipedia the movie was actually meant to be released but Avi Arad when he heard about the low budget movie coming out brought the rights to the film from the company to prevent it being released, he brought it for $2m doubling the amount they paid to make the movie, so that's interesting. Interesting, because I read something different. I read that certain people were fooled into thinking it was meant to be released, but Roger Corman said he knew it was never going to be released. This could be me not remembering correctly though. I still have half the documentary left, so maybe it will get into that. I'll get back to you. I bet the actors and people who made the movie are happy that the bootleg is available to everybody now. The actor who plays Doctor Doom said he is still annoyed by the unfinished audio on the bootleg version though and hopes that maybe they can find a way to fix it.
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Post by dazz on Jul 25, 2020 3:42:22 GMT
I kind of did, I don't know how big a theatrical trailer push it got or how much it cost, my guess it's a legal thing to skate around their licensing deal with Marvel, you think the guy who owns the rights to Superman's origin makes like $20m anytime a movie uses that in their Superman story, so imagine how much someone can charge for the full rights to the F4 films, or could before they had struck out 3 times, so if they spent $500k-1m putting out a bunch of movie trailers for it they would have prob made their money back and a load of profit just off of the first movie Fox made. But there probably are a lot of these that maybe happened locally, or were for original IP's which when they didn't come out no one ever thought about, Fantastic Four people rememeber because of the existing IP and the later movies, sort of like how people know and care about the whole mess about the Superman Live movie in the 90's, countless movies are in development and fall apart all the time, but that was a Superman movie with Nic Cage so people remember it years later, thousands of other movies that went the same way no one knew or cared about. I must have missed you talking about it. I guess what you say makes sense, though I still don't completely understand your point. I do remember the Nic Cage Superman logos though and that movies was meant to be made as far as I'm aware and then everything just fell apart. I would remember F4 even if it wasn't for the other F4 movies, because I was really excited for the movie when I saw the trailer back in 1994. Maybe there is some cognitive dissonance on my part because of that. No that was my point, people remember the Fantastic Four not coming out because people cared about the Fantastic four coming out, but if this had been another cheap low budget Corman movie, Carnasaur 4 Back 4 More or some other thing and no one heard anything about it again after the release date came and went no one would care, let alone remember decades later, we remember Fantastic Four 94 not happening or are aware of it because we are aware of the Fantastic Four beyond just this movie, same with Superman Lives, but it's like how many Halloween fans are aware of the various lost Halloween proposed films there have been or Jason Vorhees movies or Freddy and so on. Fantastic Four 94 is remembered only because of the Fantastic Four lineage leading up to it and the Fantastic Four lineage that came about after it, if it wasn't for that and the fandom built around the Fantastic Four before and since this film probably wouldn't be remembered at all.
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 25, 2020 3:48:35 GMT
I must have missed you talking about it. I guess what you say makes sense, though I still don't completely understand your point. I do remember the Nic Cage Superman logos though and that movies was meant to be made as far as I'm aware and then everything just fell apart. I would remember F4 even if it wasn't for the other F4 movies, because I was really excited for the movie when I saw the trailer back in 1994. Maybe there is some cognitive dissonance on my part because of that. No that was my point, people remember the Fantastic Four not coming out because people cared about the Fantastic four coming out, but if this had been another cheap low budget Corman movie, Carnasaur 4 Back 4 More or some other thing and no one heard anything about it again after the release date came and went no one would care, let alone remember decades later, we remember Fantastic Four 94 not happening or are aware of it because we are aware of the Fantastic Four beyond just this movie, same with Superman Lives, but it's like how many Halloween fans are aware of the various lost Halloween proposed films there have been or Jason Vorhees movies or Freddy and so on. Fantastic Four 94 is remembered only because of the Fantastic Four lineage leading up to it and the Fantastic Four lineage that came about after it, if it wasn't for that and the fandom built around the Fantastic Four before and since this film probably wouldn't be remembered at all. Got it. Yeah, that all makes sense. I bet horror fans are aware of every proposed Holloween and Friday the 13th sequel though, just not the average person. Same with F4. I wonder how many non-comic book fans remember this movie? Probably not many. I actually am only aware of it's existence because of the trailer back in 1993. I don't remember any other marketing. I think Superman was talked about in like entertainment magazines, like People and Entertainment Weekly. I remember how terrible I thought the casting of Nicolas Cage was for the role.
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 25, 2020 4:28:51 GMT
I must have missed you talking about it. I guess what you say makes sense, though I still don't completely understand your point. I do remember the Nic Cage Superman logos though and that movies was meant to be made as far as I'm aware and then everything just fell apart. I would remember F4 even if it wasn't for the other F4 movies, because I was really excited for the movie when I saw the trailer back in 1994. Maybe there is some cognitive dissonance on my part because of that. No that was my point, people remember the Fantastic Four not coming out because people cared about the Fantastic four coming out, but if this had been another cheap low budget Corman movie, Carnasaur 4 Back 4 More or some other thing and no one heard anything about it again after the release date came and went no one would care, let alone remember decades later, we remember Fantastic Four 94 not happening or are aware of it because we are aware of the Fantastic Four beyond just this movie, same with Superman Lives, but it's like how many Halloween fans are aware of the various lost Halloween proposed films there have been or Jason Vorhees movies or Freddy and so on. Fantastic Four 94 is remembered only because of the Fantastic Four lineage leading up to it and the Fantastic Four lineage that came about after it, if it wasn't for that and the fandom built around the Fantastic Four before and since this film probably wouldn't be remembered at all. The documentary is somewhat messy in the way it explains it, because each person explains it a bit differently. From what I gather the movie was intended to be released and marketed very much (conventions and stuff like that), but then some powerful people in Hollywood got wind of it and that changed the game. Chris Columbus showed interest in making a F4 movie and then Fox then bought off Roger Corman for the rights with a huge paycheck and that was that. Then the story was told that it was never intended to be released, but that was a lie. Then there is this stuff about Avi Arad knowing the entire time that he wasn't going to let the movie ever be released and it was some kind of business power play that I don't really understand. Why he would let them make the movie knowing that he was never going to let it be released just doesn't make sense to me.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 25, 2020 6:10:39 GMT
I spoke too soon while watching the documentary. The first cgi guy was fired and then they got a much better cgi guy, but then the money ran out and the couldn't enhance the cgi to their liking. That still doesn't change anything about how crappy the cgi is (it more explains why the cgi is so crappy) and it doesn't change your dishonest response. lol I said it was probably hi tech for the time
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 26, 2020 0:04:02 GMT
I recommend people to watch the documentary first and then the movie.
I had a terrific time last night watching them back to back. Fantastic Four is a fun and surprisingly charming bad movie. It has more heart than any of the Fantastic Four movies that follow.
Here is a hilarious video of 4 guys comparing bad Superhero movies and they compliment Fantastic Four in the same way I do. That the 1 million dollar Fantastic Four movie starring no known actors is a better movie than the 35 million dollar Supergirl movie starring Peter O'Toole and Faye Dunaway.
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Post by politicidal on Jul 26, 2020 0:11:33 GMT
It's ironic and sad that from what clips I've seen, this remains the best film version of the characters to date. I do wish Marvel would just hire someone like Brad Bird or Justin Lin to direct a new movie. I think the material still has potential and like hell they're not gonna use Doctor Doom at some point in the future once the pandemic subsides.
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Post by moviemouth on Jul 26, 2020 0:20:31 GMT
It's ironic and sad that from what clips I've seen, this remains the best film version of the characters to date. I do wish Marvel would just hire someone like Brad Bird or Justin Lin to direct a new movie. I think the material still has potential and like hell they're not gonna use Doctor Doom at some point in the future once the pandemic subsides. Yes, which is proof that making a good high budget Fantastic Four movie shouldn't be difficult at all. The 1994 version is the closest to the comics in fact.
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