|
Post by darkpast on Jul 27, 2020 0:35:35 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Vassaggo on Jul 27, 2020 3:21:55 GMT
Makes sense. Jeph Loeb, who oversees Marvel Television and the television properties of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, still reported to Perlmutter up until 2019. Daredevil would've been under Loeb's and Perlmutter's purview. And we all know Ike's (and apparently Loeb's) views on race
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jul 27, 2020 13:03:04 GMT
Makes sense. Jeph Loeb, who oversees Marvel Television and the television properties of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, still reported to Perlmutter up until 2019. Daredevil would've been under Loeb's and Perlmutter's purview. And we all know Ike's (and apparently Loeb's) views on race Totally explains why Iron Fist sucked. Glad those guys are gone.
|
|
|
Post by politicidal on Jul 27, 2020 13:53:43 GMT
Makes sense. Jeph Loeb, who oversees Marvel Television and the television properties of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, still reported to Perlmutter up until 2019. Daredevil would've been under Loeb's and Perlmutter's purview. And we all know Ike's (and apparently Loeb's) views on race Totally explains why Iron Fist sucked.Β Glad those guys are gone. Β Β Could had been worse. Perlmutter got Marvel before corporate raider and future Trump stooge Carl Icahn could back in the day. Interesting read about that here. www.google.com/amp/s/www.denofgeek.com/movies/how-marvel-went-from-bankruptcy-to-billions/%3famp?client=safari
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jul 27, 2020 14:23:51 GMT
Great read, thanks for posting. There were other reasons for the crisis in comics back in the mid 90s. The storytelling went to hell (literally in some cases) as everyone was looking to write the next Watchmen or The Dark Knight Returns. Those titles are great because they're outliers, you can't base an historically kid-centric industry on that kind of storytelling. 'Grimdark' storylines turned off long time readers (like me) and didn't pull in new readers the way comics always had. They mention the collecting boom, but they neglect to mention one of the key problems with that business model; older comics were worth more because they were rare. You can't flood the market with #1 issues that everyone under the sun has ten copies of and expect them to gain value over time. It was a perfect storm of circumstances that led to the near collapse of Marvel and comics in general. In the end I'd say it all worked out for Marvel, as you said it could be a hell of a lot worse.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 27, 2020 16:47:01 GMT
Not surprised, but truly disgusted.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 27, 2020 16:52:56 GMT
Great read, thanks for posting. There were other reasons for the crisis in comics back in the mid 90s. The storytelling went to hell (literally in some cases) as everyone was looking to write the next Watchmen or The Dark Knight Returns. Those titles are great because they're outliers, you can't base an historically kid-centric industry on that kind of storytelling. 'Grimdark' storylines turned off long time readers (like me) and didn't pull in new readers the way comics always had. They mention the collecting boom, but they neglect to mention one of the key problems with that business model; older comics were worth more because they were rare. You can't flood the market with #1 issues that everyone under the sun has ten copies of and expect them to gain value over time. It was a perfect storm of circumstances that led to the near collapse of Marvel and comics in general. In the end I'd say it all worked out for Marvel, as you said it could be a hell of a lot worse. Let's not forget that the cult of the artist really came into its own back then as well. Many top-tier artists drove sales on popular books, and as a result, they felt that they were entitled to also plot and write the stories. What you got in most cases were hilariously grimdark characters and stories that were driven by nothing more than the juvenile urge to draw 'kewl' panels.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jul 27, 2020 17:03:34 GMT
Great read, thanks for posting. There were other reasons for the crisis in comics back in the mid 90s. The storytelling went to hell (literally in some cases) as everyone was looking to write the next Watchmen or The Dark Knight Returns. Those titles are great because they're outliers, you can't base an historically kid-centric industry on that kind of storytelling. 'Grimdark' storylines turned off long time readers (like me) and didn't pull in new readers the way comics always had. They mention the collecting boom, but they neglect to mention one of the key problems with that business model; older comics were worth more because they were rare. You can't flood the market with #1 issues that everyone under the sun has ten copies of and expect them to gain value over time. It was a perfect storm of circumstances that led to the near collapse of Marvel and comics in general. In the end I'd say it all worked out for Marvel, as you said it could be a hell of a lot worse. Let's not forget that the cult of the artist really came into its own back then as well. Many top-tier artists drove sales on popular books, and as a result, they felt that they were entitled to also plot and write the stories. What you got in most cases were hilariously grimdark characters and stories that were driven by nothing more than the juvenile urge to draw 'kewl' panels. And the art sucked, for that matter. I never could figure out the hype behind guys like 'I can't draw feet' Liefeld and 'Everyone squats with their knees filed into points' McFarlane. It was truly an insane time in comic book history.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Jul 27, 2020 20:26:07 GMT
Great read, thanks for posting. There were other reasons for the crisis in comics back in the mid 90s. The storytelling went to hell (literally in some cases) as everyone was looking to write the next Watchmen or The Dark Knight Returns. Those titles are great because they're outliers, you can't base an historically kid-centric industry on that kind of storytelling. 'Grimdark' storylines turned off long time readers (like me) and didn't pull in new readers the way comics always had. They mention the collecting boom, but they neglect to mention one of the key problems with that business model; older comics were worth more because they were rare. You can't flood the market with #1 issues that everyone under the sun has ten copies of and expect them to gain value over time. It was a perfect storm of circumstances that led to the near collapse of Marvel and comics in general. In the end I'd say it all worked out for Marvel, as you said it could be a hell of a lot worse. Let's not forget that the cult of the artist really came into its own back then as well. Many top-tier artists drove sales on popular books, and as a result, they felt that they were entitled to also plot and write the stories. What you got in most cases were hilariously grimdark characters and stories that were driven by nothing more than the juvenile urge to draw 'kewl' panels. You gotta admit, though, that Stan Lee is savage as hell in that vid.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 28, 2020 2:08:27 GMT
Let's not forget that the cult of the artist really came into its own back then as well. Many top-tier artists drove sales on popular books, and as a result, they felt that they were entitled to also plot and write the stories. What you got in most cases were hilariously grimdark characters and stories that were driven by nothing more than the juvenile urge to draw 'kewl' panels. And the art sucked, for that matter. I never could figure out the hype behind guys like 'I can't draw feet' Liefeld and 'Everyone squats with their knees filed into points' McFarlane. It was truly an insane time in comic book history. They were a blight on the medium for a long time. In all fairness, writers showed only slightly more restraint when they got their comeuppance in the early 2000s. Behold how the mighty have fallen.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 28, 2020 2:09:49 GMT
Let's not forget that the cult of the artist really came into its own back then as well. Many top-tier artists drove sales on popular books, and as a result, they felt that they were entitled to also plot and write the stories. What you got in most cases were hilariously grimdark characters and stories that were driven by nothing more than the juvenile urge to draw 'kewl' panels. You gotta admit, though, that Stan Lee is savage as hell in that vid. Oh, without a doubt. I don't think Todd or Erik really knew what hit them.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 28, 2020 3:33:29 GMT
Watched the opening...
Todd --- staring out at sun-kissed vistas intently.
Todd --- gloves on, hitting the heavy bag.
Todd --- defiant in the face of people who won't let him break free of the panel.
This revisionist history is laughable and groan-inducing.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Jul 28, 2020 20:56:34 GMT
Watched the opening... Todd --- staring out at sun-kissed vistas intently. Todd --- gloves on, hitting the heavy bag. Todd --- defiant in the face of people who won't let him break free of the panel. This revisionist history is laughable and groan-inducing. Imagine if Stan Lee made Fantastic Four and lived off of that forever. That's Todd with Spawn.
|
|
|
Post by Lord Death Man on Jul 29, 2020 15:51:34 GMT
Watched the opening... Todd --- staring out at sun-kissed vistas intently. Todd --- gloves on, hitting the heavy bag. Todd --- defiant in the face of people who won't let him break free of the panel. This revisionist history is laughable and groan-inducing. Imagine if Stan Lee made Fantastic Four and lived off of that forever. That's Todd with Spawn. Spawn was an excuse for Todd to draw another one of his beloved, flowy capes. The character design obviously came before the story or settings. That's not unusual or a crime in and of itself, but it's all so lazy it's damn near-offensive.
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Jul 29, 2020 19:48:31 GMT
Given the Mandarin and Tilda Swinton, I doubt he got much kickback for it.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Jul 30, 2020 19:14:42 GMT
Given the Mandarin and Tilda Swinton, I doubt he got much kickback for it. Don't think he had anything to do with those characters.
|
|
|
Post by moviebuffbrad on Jul 30, 2020 19:19:27 GMT
Given the Mandarin and Tilda Swinton, I doubt he got much kickback for it. Don't think he had anything to do with those characters. Don't think I said he did.
|
|
|
Post by Rey Kahuka on Jul 31, 2020 14:13:38 GMT
Given the Mandarin and Tilda Swinton, I doubt he got much kickback for it. Both examples of trying to avoid Asian stereotypes and instead getting accused of whitewashing. It's a lose/lose in those situations.
|
|
thenolan
Sophomore
@thenolan
Posts: 778
Likes: 162
|
Post by thenolan on Jul 31, 2020 14:32:32 GMT
I wonder if this also explains some of the poor production choices of black panther. nobody gives a shit about minorities so they subject minority movies and characters to poor produced things but at the same time push race in the spotlight to deflect from any true criticism.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on Jul 31, 2020 16:09:11 GMT
Don't think he had anything to do with those characters. Don't think I said he did. Who's the he in the kickback situation?
|
|