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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 1, 2020 2:09:05 GMT
One of De Palma's best, one of the best cinematic takes on the conflict in Vietnam, and a harrowing portrayal of a true" incident that involved 5 US soldiers serving in Vietnam in 1966. It is difficult to watch this film without feeling uncomfortable and distressed. The disgust and anger I feel at the actions of these soldiers, all bar one— played with maximum appeal by Michael J. Fox—makes for an entirely disturbing, but also moving experience. Fox is the heart and soul of the film and anchors it without resorting to any manipulative histrionics or undulated mannerisms. He is just a little guy with a charismatic and soft kind face, yet he makes the most of his role and is very believable. He gave a comedic Oscar worthy turn in Back To The Future - 85' and here he turns in a dramatic one. There is apparently an extended edition of this film with two extra scenes of Fox being interrogated by agents and lawyers which I would like to see. Sean Penn and his cohorts are loathsome, but within the context and theme of the film, not to mention the backdrop of the amoral mess these soldiers were forced into, they were also casualties of this dirty, unethical and insidious conflict. How can something appear so wrong, when rightness is literally absent? As in all war, it becomes about a game of survival, not so much about fighting the "purported" enemy. The enemy rage is the instigator of this film's scenario, yet for what reason are the VC really the enemy? In her only film, Thy Thu Le is absolutely heartbreaking. She doesn't speak a word of English and her performance as the kidnapped, tortured and raped young Vietnamese girl seems to transcend generic and traditional screen acting. This is almost the real thing we are witnessing and what a brave and courageous rendition she illustrates. She is absolutely devastating. De Palma fully understands the visual medium of cinema and it is to his credit also, that he shows restraint and knows what to present and what to hold back on. The film is moderately graphic and even if MPAA rating issues at the time were a reason as to what could be shown, the less is more approach works wonders here, both in the combat and sexually violent sequences. We see what needs to be seen and he is also a master of building tension which is the gripping part of this films presentation. Even with Oanh, when any sense of hope or reason is all but relinquished and all that she is left clinging onto is sheer futile desperation when closure is existentially imminent, (also depicted earlier involving Brownie's fate and even the distressed fish out of water cherry later on in the film) De Palma shocks us, without slamming us. He also had a visually stunning backdrop for a canvas with which to paint his fine honed technical skills on as a director. The film was a fizzer box office wise and I'd say much of that was due to the subject matter. It is a shame, because I find it one of the best releases of 89' and the Vietnam themed film that got most of the hype was Oliver Stone's Born On The Fourth Of July - 89' with Tom Cruise. I don't find Stone's film quite has the same emotional impact, or is as compelling, regardless of the austere and well-meaning approach. It's a bit bombastic. For those interested, here is some more detail about the charges and outcomes of the convicted soldiers involved: Incident On Hill 192 |
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Post by petrolino on Aug 2, 2020 2:48:40 GMT
I like 'Casualties Of War'. It's melodrama which Brian De Palma excels at in any genre or milieu, just as Oliver Stone excels at bombastic political polemic (I love their uinon on 'Scarface' which combines the best of both - "say hello to my little friend"). It's in my top 10 Vietnam movies.
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 2, 2020 6:02:49 GMT
I like 'Casualties Of War'. It's melodrama which Brian De Palma excels at in any genre or milieu, just as Oliver Stone excels at bombastic political polemic (I love their uinon on 'Scarface' which combines the best of both - "say hello to my little friend"). It's in my top 10 Vietnam movies. The tale this film had to represent, was a perfect fit for De Palma's style of storytelling. While it has melodramatic elements, because it is true, it doesn't come across as one bit contrived. It had to be carefully represented and with Morricone's provocative and reverential choral score to help set the tone and feeling, the elements worked wonders. This film didn't have to work hard at being disturbing and shocking, as in many of De Palma's stylized works.
Stone wants to rage, which isn't a bad thing, De Palma observed here without pointing any fingers and lets the viewer decide.
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Post by petrolino on Aug 2, 2020 6:05:57 GMT
I like 'Casualties Of War'. It's melodrama which Brian De Palma excels at in any genre or milieu, just as Oliver Stone excels at bombastic political polemic (I love their uinon on 'Scarface' which combines the best of both - "say hello to my little friend"). It's in my top 10 Vietnam movies. The tale this film had to represent, was a perfect fit for De Palma's style of storytelling. While it has melodramatic elements, because it is true, it doesn't come across as one bit contrived. It had to be carefully represented and with Morricone's provocative and reverential choral score to help set the tone and feeling, the elements worked wonders. This film didn't have to work hard at being disturbing and shocking, as in many of De Palma's stylized works.
Stone wants to rage, which isn't a bad thing, De Palma observed here without pointing any fingers and lets the viewer decide.
I remember some critics savaging it. |
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Post by petrolino on Aug 2, 2020 6:07:05 GMT
The tale this film had to represent, was a perfect fit for De Palma's style of storytelling. While it has melodramatic elements, because it is true, it doesn't come across as one bit contrived. It had to be carefully represented and with Morricone's provocative and reverential choral score to help set the tone and feeling, the elements worked wonders. This film didn't have to work hard at being disturbing and shocking, as in many of De Palma's stylized works.
Stone wants to rage, which isn't a bad thing, De Palma observed here without pointing any fingers and lets the viewer decide.
I remember some critics savaging it. Of course, they savaged much of Brian De Palma and Oliver Stone's work. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 2, 2020 6:16:55 GMT
I remember some critics savaging it. Of course, they savaged much of Brian De Palma and Oliver Stone's work. Pre-internet, popular media critics were a law unto themselves and could really make or break a film. They have lost much of their power now. I don't think people seek them out as much as they used too, or pay much heed. Every man and his dog is their own armchair critic now.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Aug 2, 2020 9:41:50 GMT
As far as i remember its a good movie.
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Post by Morgana on Aug 2, 2020 10:20:11 GMT
One of De Palma's best, one of the best cinematic takes on the conflict in Vietnam, and a harrowing portrayal of an extremely disturbing "true" incident that involved 5 US soldiers serving in Vietnam in 1966. It is difficult to watch this film without feeling uncomfortable and distressed. The disgust and anger I feel at the actions of these soldiers, all bar one— played with maximum appeal by Michael J. Fox—makes for an entirely disturbing, but also moving experience. Fox is the heart and soul of the film and anchors it without resorting to any manipulative histrionics or undulated mannerisms. He is just a little guy with a charismatic and soft kind face, yet he makes the most of his role and is very believable. He gave a comedic Oscar worthy turn in Back To The Future - 85' and here he turns in a dramatic one. There is apparently an extended edition of this film with two extra scenes of Fox being interrogated by agents and lawyers which I would like to see. Sean Penn and his cohorts are loathsome, but within the context and theme of the film, not to mention the backdrop of the amoral mess these soldiers were forced into, they were also casualties of this dirty, unethical and insidious conflict. How can something appear so wrong, when rightness is literally absent? As in all war, it becomes about a game of survival, not so much about fighting the "purported" enemy. The enemy rage is the instigator of this film's scenario, yet for what reason are the VC really the enemy? In her only film, Thy Thu Le is absolutely heartbreaking. She doesn't speak a word of English and her performance as the kidnapped, tortured and raped young Vietnamese girl seems to transcend generic and traditional screen acting. This is almost the real thing we are witnessing and what a brave and courageous rendition she illustrates. She is absolutely devastating. De Palma fully understands the visual medium of cinema and it is to his credit also, that he shows restraint and knows what to show and what to hold back on. The film is moderately graphic and even if MPAA rating issues at the time were a reason as to what can be shown, the less is more approach works exceptionally well here, both in the combat and sexually violent sequences. We see what needs to be seen and he is also a master of building tension which is the gripping part of this films presentation. Even with Oanh, when any sense of hope or reason is all but relinquished and all that she is left clinging onto is sheer futile desperation when closure is nothing but imminent, (also depicted earlier involving Brownie's fate and even the distressed fish out of water cherry later on in the film) De Palma shocks us, without slamming us. He also had a visually stunning backdrop for a canvas with which to paint his fine honed technical skills on as a director. The film was a fizzer box office wise and I'd say much of that was due to the subject matter. It is a shame, because I find it one of the best releases of 89' and the Vietnam themed film that got most of the hype was Oliver Stone's Born On The Fourth Of July - 89' with Tom Cruise. I don't find Stone's film quite has the same emotional impact, or is as compelling, regardless of the austere and well-meaning approach. It's a bit bombastic. For those interested, here is some more detail about the charges and outcomes of the convicted soldiers involved: Incident On Hill 192 I kind of wish you hadn't posted the link because I opened it and was disgusted by how lenient the sentencing was to those b*****ds. They should have spent the rest of their lives in jail. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 2, 2020 10:44:49 GMT
One of De Palma's best, one of the best cinematic takes on the conflict in Vietnam, and a harrowing portrayal of an extremely disturbing "true" incident that involved 5 US soldiers serving in Vietnam in 1966. It is difficult to watch this film without feeling uncomfortable and distressed. The disgust and anger I feel at the actions of these soldiers, all bar one— played with maximum appeal by Michael J. Fox—makes for an entirely disturbing, but also moving experience. Fox is the heart and soul of the film and anchors it without resorting to any manipulative histrionics or undulated mannerisms. He is just a little guy with a charismatic and soft kind face, yet he makes the most of his role and is very believable. He gave a comedic Oscar worthy turn in Back To The Future - 85' and here he turns in a dramatic one. There is apparently an extended edition of this film with two extra scenes of Fox being interrogated by agents and lawyers which I would like to see. Sean Penn and his cohorts are loathsome, but within the context and theme of the film, not to mention the backdrop of the amoral mess these soldiers were forced into, they were also casualties of this dirty, unethical and insidious conflict. How can something appear so wrong, when rightness is literally absent? As in all war, it becomes about a game of survival, not so much about fighting the "purported" enemy. The enemy rage is the instigator of this film's scenario, yet for what reason are the VC really the enemy? In her only film, Thy Thu Le is absolutely heartbreaking. She doesn't speak a word of English and her performance as the kidnapped, tortured and raped young Vietnamese girl seems to transcend generic and traditional screen acting. This is almost the real thing we are witnessing and what a brave and courageous rendition she illustrates. She is absolutely devastating. De Palma fully understands the visual medium of cinema and it is to his credit also, that he shows restraint and knows what to show and what to hold back on. The film is moderately graphic and even if MPAA rating issues at the time were a reason as to what can be shown, the less is more approach works exceptionally well here, both in the combat and sexually violent sequences. We see what needs to be seen and he is also a master of building tension which is the gripping part of this films presentation. Even with Oanh, when any sense of hope or reason is all but relinquished and all that she is left clinging onto is sheer futile desperation when closure is nothing but imminent, (also depicted earlier involving Brownie's fate and even the distressed fish out of water cherry later on in the film) De Palma shocks us, without slamming us. He also had a visually stunning backdrop for a canvas with which to paint his fine honed technical skills on as a director. The film was a fizzer box office wise and I'd say much of that was due to the subject matter. It is a shame, because I find it one of the best releases of 89' and the Vietnam themed film that got most of the hype was Oliver Stone's Born On The Fourth Of July - 89' with Tom Cruise. I don't find Stone's film quite has the same emotional impact, or is as compelling, regardless of the austere and well-meaning approach. It's a bit bombastic. For those interested, here is some more detail about the charges and outcomes of the convicted soldiers involved: Incident On Hill 192I kind of wish you hadn't posted the link because I opened it and was disgusted by how lenient the sentencing was to those b*****ds. They should have spent the rest of their lives in jail. I was intrigued by the charges at the end of the film. Sean Penn's character who was the Sergeant and ring leader wasn't charged with rape, only unpremeditated murder and initially got 10yrs. The film depicted him as raping Oanh first.
Yes, it appears unfortunate, but as also thematically stated in the film, this was a wartime scenario and that they wouldn't end up serving anything too harsh. There would have been many many disgusting and unfathomable crimes committed towards the Vietnamese people that went officially unaccounted for. Oliver Stone briefly depicted the abduction and attempted rape of 2 young girls in Platoon - 86', only for the assailants to get accosted by Charlie Sheen's character before they went too far. Of course these sociopathic animals, which is an insult to beasts to place them in the same category, referred to him as a f@@@@t.
The whole thing was one big f<>king crime scene with legal license given to act like psychopathic pigs. These vet criminals though, have had to live with themselves and would that be easy?
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Post by Morgana on Aug 2, 2020 10:56:49 GMT
I kind of wish you hadn't posted the link because I opened it and was disgusted by how lenient the sentencing was to those b*****ds. They should have spent the rest of their lives in jail. I was intrigued by the charges at the end of the film. Sean Penn's character who was the Sergeant and ring leader wasn't charged with rape, only unpremeditated murder and initially got 10yrs. The film depicted him as raping Oanh first.
Yes, it appears unfortunate, but as also thematically stated in the film, this was a wartime scenario and that they wouldn't end up serving anything too harsh. There would have been many many disgusting and unfathomable crimes committed towards the Vietnamese people that went officially unaccounted for. Oliver Stone briefly depicted the abduction and attempted rape of 2 young girls in Platoon - 86', only for the assailants to get accosted by Charlie Sheen's character before they went too far. Of course these sociopathic animals, which is an insult to beasts to place them in the same category, referred to him as a f@@@@t.
The whole thing was one big f<>king crime scene with legal license given to act like psychopathic pigs. These vet criminals though, have had to live with themselves and would that be easy?
There are people that have zero ability to feel empathy for anyone, so in answer to your rhetorical question, yes, I think it would be easy for them to move on with their lives. Platoon is one of my favourite war films, and I remember that scene. Atrocities get brushed over in war. Those in charge tend to look the other way. As Shakespeare put it: |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 2, 2020 11:24:59 GMT
I was intrigued by the charges at the end of the film. Sean Penn's character who was the Sergeant and ring leader wasn't charged with rape, only unpremeditated murder and initially got 10yrs. The film depicted him as raping Oanh first.
Yes, it appears unfortunate, but as also thematically stated in the film, this was a wartime scenario and that they wouldn't end up serving anything too harsh. There would have been many many disgusting and unfathomable crimes committed towards the Vietnamese people that went officially unaccounted for. Oliver Stone briefly depicted the abduction and attempted rape of 2 young girls in Platoon - 86', only for the assailants to get accosted by Charlie Sheen's character before they went too far. Of course these sociopathic animals, which is an insult to beasts to place them in the same category, referred to him as a f@@@@t.
The whole thing was one big f<>king crime scene with legal license given to act like psychopathic pigs. These vet criminals though, have had to live with themselves and would that be easy?
There are people that have zero ability to feel empathy for anyone, so in answer to your rhetorical question, yes, I think it would be easy for them to move on with their lives. Platoon is one of my favourite war films, and I remember that scene. Atrocities get brushed over in war. Those in charge tend to look the other way. As Shakespeare put it: A war like that, pandered to many dense and sociopathic mentalities who were fighting for a fabricated nationalistic pride. Yes, unfortunately these guys would have seen so much bloodshed and created so much of it themselves, it would all just meld into another aspect of what was once known as the Vietnam War. Thing is, we have no way of knowing. In the film, one of the guys told Fox he would have his back and then reneged. I bet he wished he hadn't, but that was so the others could have his back too, as it was a game of survival. He feared being fragged by them. |
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Post by avocadojoe on Aug 2, 2020 21:29:34 GMT
One of De Palma's best, one of the best cinematic takes on the conflict in Vietnam, and a harrowing portrayal of an extremely disturbing "true" incident that involved 5 US soldiers serving in Vietnam in 1966. It is difficult to watch this film without feeling uncomfortable and distressed. The disgust and anger I feel at the actions of these soldiers, all bar one— played with maximum appeal by Michael J. Fox—makes for an entirely disturbing, but also moving experience. Fox is the heart and soul of the film and anchors it without resorting to any manipulative histrionics or undulated mannerisms. He is just a little guy with a charismatic and soft kind face, yet he makes the most of his role and is very believable. He gave a comedic Oscar worthy turn in Back To The Future - 85' and here he turns in a dramatic one. There is apparently an extended edition of this film with two extra scenes of Fox being interrogated by agents and lawyers which I would like to see. Sean Penn and his cohorts are loathsome, but within the context and theme of the film, not to mention the backdrop of the amoral mess these soldiers were forced into, they were also casualties of this dirty, unethical and insidious conflict. How can something appear so wrong, when rightness is literally absent? As in all war, it becomes about a game of survival, not so much about fighting the "purported" enemy. The enemy rage is the instigator of this film's scenario, yet for what reason are the VC really the enemy? In her only film, Thy Thu Le is absolutely heartbreaking. She doesn't speak a word of English and her performance as the kidnapped, tortured and raped young Vietnamese girl seems to transcend generic and traditional screen acting. This is almost the real thing we are witnessing and what a brave and courageous rendition she illustrates. She is absolutely devastating. De Palma fully understands the visual medium of cinema and it is to his credit also, that he shows restraint and knows what to show and what to hold back on. The film is moderately graphic and even if MPAA rating issues at the time were a reason as to what can be shown, the less is more approach works exceptionally well here, both in the combat and sexually violent sequences. We see what needs to be seen and he is also a master of building tension which is the gripping part of this films presentation. Even with Oanh, when any sense of hope or reason is all but relinquished and all that she is left clinging onto is sheer futile desperation when closure is nothing but imminent, (also depicted earlier involving Brownie's fate and even the distressed fish out of water cherry later on in the film) De Palma shocks us, without slamming us. He also had a visually stunning backdrop for a canvas with which to paint his fine honed technical skills on as a director. The film was a fizzer box office wise and I'd say much of that was due to the subject matter. It is a shame, because I find it one of the best releases of 89' and the Vietnam themed film that got most of the hype was Oliver Stone's Born On The Fourth Of July - 89' with Tom Cruise. I don't find Stone's film quite has the same emotional impact, or is as compelling, regardless of the austere and well-meaning approach. It's a bit bombastic. For those interested, here is some more detail about the charges and outcomes of the convicted soldiers involved: Incident On Hill 192 I've never seen the movie. Of course, I would likely be moved by it as it has an excellent director going for it. I'm sure it's super intense. Pauline Kael gave it an excellent review. I didn't know much about what happened. I read from the link you provided. Thank you for that! |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Aug 8, 2020 4:56:54 GMT
One of De Palma's best, one of the best cinematic takes on the conflict in Vietnam, and a harrowing portrayal of an extremely disturbing "true" incident that involved 5 US soldiers serving in Vietnam in 1966. It is difficult to watch this film without feeling uncomfortable and distressed. The disgust and anger I feel at the actions of these soldiers, all bar one— played with maximum appeal by Michael J. Fox—makes for an entirely disturbing, but also moving experience. Fox is the heart and soul of the film and anchors it without resorting to any manipulative histrionics or undulated mannerisms. He is just a little guy with a charismatic and soft kind face, yet he makes the most of his role and is very believable. He gave a comedic Oscar worthy turn in Back To The Future - 85' and here he turns in a dramatic one. There is apparently an extended edition of this film with two extra scenes of Fox being interrogated by agents and lawyers which I would like to see. Sean Penn and his cohorts are loathsome, but within the context and theme of the film, not to mention the backdrop of the amoral mess these soldiers were forced into, they were also casualties of this dirty, unethical and insidious conflict. How can something appear so wrong, when rightness is literally absent? As in all war, it becomes about a game of survival, not so much about fighting the "purported" enemy. The enemy rage is the instigator of this film's scenario, yet for what reason are the VC really the enemy? In her only film, Thy Thu Le is absolutely heartbreaking. She doesn't speak a word of English and her performance as the kidnapped, tortured and raped young Vietnamese girl seems to transcend generic and traditional screen acting. This is almost the real thing we are witnessing and what a brave and courageous rendition she illustrates. She is absolutely devastating. De Palma fully understands the visual medium of cinema and it is to his credit also, that he shows restraint and knows what to show and what to hold back on. The film is moderately graphic and even if MPAA rating issues at the time were a reason as to what can be shown, the less is more approach works exceptionally well here, both in the combat and sexually violent sequences. We see what needs to be seen and he is also a master of building tension which is the gripping part of this films presentation. Even with Oanh, when any sense of hope or reason is all but relinquished and all that she is left clinging onto is sheer futile desperation when closure is nothing but imminent, (also depicted earlier involving Brownie's fate and even the distressed fish out of water cherry later on in the film) De Palma shocks us, without slamming us. He also had a visually stunning backdrop for a canvas with which to paint his fine honed technical skills on as a director. The film was a fizzer box office wise and I'd say much of that was due to the subject matter. It is a shame, because I find it one of the best releases of 89' and the Vietnam themed film that got most of the hype was Oliver Stone's Born On The Fourth Of July - 89' with Tom Cruise. I don't find Stone's film quite has the same emotional impact, or is as compelling, regardless of the austere and well-meaning approach. It's a bit bombastic. For those interested, here is some more detail about the charges and outcomes of the convicted soldiers involved: Incident On Hill 192 I've never seen the movie. Of course, I would likely be moved by it as it has an excellent director going for it. I'm sure it's super intense. Pauline Kael gave it an excellent review. I didn't know much about what happened. I read from the link you provided. Thank you for that! It is one of De Palma's I tend to forget. More interested in his earlier works, but he did end the 80's on a very powerful note. it is not really a film one would want to remember in terms of the incident portrayed.
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