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Post by DC-Fan on May 7, 2017 20:21:54 GMT
Yes, it's still 100% true and will always be 100% true. The Star Wars and Star Trek movies should never rely on the audience having read any novels or watched any animated series. And MCU shouldn't rely on the audience having outside information either. A movie franchise must be self-contained and be able to stand on its own. All those franchises are self-contained. Anything you get extra is just that, extra. All the books give you extra backstory on characters, objects and places. You don't need to read or watch any of it to get what is going on in the movie you are watching. But watching BvS, can you tell me what the Omega symbol on the ground means? Who were the flying demons in Batman's dream? Who was that guy in the red that was talking to Bruce through the portal? Why was that one pod open in Man of Steel? Why did I have to read a comic to know Kara Zor-El was in it? In BvS, who's suit was that in the case with the spray paint on it? Who put the spray paint on it? These aren't things that background easter eggs because they are points of focus. None of these things are touched upon in the movie they are shown in. Will they be touched on later? Nobody knows. But it shows that those movies aren't self-contained. The movies are self-contained. The things you're referring to are just easter eggs. Easter eggs are good for fans who are familiar with the characters and have seen or read outside material on those characters. But for casual viewers who haven't seen or read outside material, easter eggs aren't central to the plot of the movie and don't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
For example, in Star Trek Generations, there was a scene in which Data was laughing hysterically and reminded Geordi of a joke that was made during the mission to Farpoint Station and Geordi said "Farpoint was 7 years ago and Data said "I know. I just got it." For fans who watched the TV series and know what Data was referring to, that was a nice easter egg. But for casual viewers who didn't watch the TV series, that wasn't central to the plot of the movie and doesn't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
Another example, in Star Trek: First Contact, when the Borg went aboard the Enterprise and Dr. Crusher had to evacuate sick bay, she activated the Emergency Medical Hologram program and the Doctor for Voyager appeared. Fans who watched the TV series got a laugh from that easter egg. But for casual viewers who didn't watch the TV series, that wasn't central to the plot of the movie and doesn't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
Now for something like the Fantastic Four's origin, that's central to a Fantastic Four movie so they can't rely on casual viewers knowing the Fantastic Four's origin, especially since the Fantastic Four's origin isn't as well known to most people as Batman's origin is.
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zoilus
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Post by zoilus on May 7, 2017 20:23:44 GMT
The movies are self-contained. The things you're referring to are just easter eggs. Easter eggs are good for fans who are familiar with the characters and have seen or read outside material on those characters. But for casual viewers who haven't seen or read outside material, easter eggs aren't central to the plot of the movie and don't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
For example, in Star Trek Generations, there was a scene in which Data was laughing hysterically and reminded Geordi of a joke that was made during the mission to Farpoint Station and Geordi said "Farpoint was 7 years ago and Data said "I know. I just got it." For fans who watched the TV series and know what Data was referring to, that was a nice easter egg. But for casual viewers who didn't watch the TV series, that wasn't central to the plot of the movie and doesn't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
Now for something like the Fantastic Four's origin, that's central to a Fantastic Four movie so they can't rely on casual viewers knowing the Fantastic Four's origin, especially since the Fantastic Four's origin isn't as well known to most people as Batman's origin is.
I didn't think it was possible but you just got even nerdier and even more pathetic. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 20:50:15 GMT
A movie should never rely on the audience having outside information about its characters. Never. Is this still 100% true in the age of the mega-franchise? I ask respectfully. Guide my saber from the great beyond. Yes, I believe it is. I think a lot of the current Hollywood franchises suffer from this very problem. Especially the remakes. Studios believe a name alone will sell tickets... And they're right about that. But a name alone doesn't make a good movie. |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on May 7, 2017 22:22:00 GMT
Why the **** does everyone want a younger cast and the **** negative zone? That sounds like SHIT4STIC!
Look, at this point EVERYONE knows their origin story. They should make a movie with the rise of Doom into power and maybe some flashback on how his face was disfigured when he worked with Reed in the past. And stop casting 20 or early 30 somethings for Reed and Susan.
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agentblue
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Post by agentblue on May 7, 2017 22:24:58 GMT
Why the **** does everyone want a younger cast and the **** negative zone? That sounds like SHIT4STIC! Look, at this point EVERYONE knows their origin story. They should make a movie with the rise of Doom into power and maybe some flashback on how his face was disfigured when he worked with Reed in the past. And stop casting 20 or early 30 somethings for Reed and Susan. Well if you cast anyone over 40 they wont be able to lead a franchise for much longer. Yes I know Downey was in his 40s when he started and he is still going strong but they need younger actors IMO. |
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 22:37:01 GMT
Look, at this point EVERYONE knows their origin story. You're missing the point of origin stories. It's not solely to show how they got their powers. It's to introduce the characters before they get them, set up a story arc, tie their powers into that story arc and allow a chance to ground both the characters and the story for the first movie and for all the sequels to come. Iron Man and Cap would never have worked as well as they do without their respective origin stories. The movies are still building off of their original story arcs and will continue to do so even in Avengers 3-4. |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on May 7, 2017 22:43:09 GMT
Why the **** does everyone want a younger cast and the **** negative zone? That sounds like SHIT4STIC! Look, at this point EVERYONE knows their origin story. They should make a movie with the rise of Doom into power and maybe some flashback on how his face was disfigured when he worked with Reed in the past. And stop casting 20 or early 30 somethings for Reed and Susan. Well if you cast anyone over 40 they wont be able to lead a franchise for much longer. Yes I know Downey was in his 40s when he started and he is still going strong but they need younger actors IMO. But NOT people that look like teenagers, tho. Who the **** was the genius that saw "Project X" and said: "You know? That guy would make a great Reed Richards..." And Andrew Garfield? WT F ? Ruining ONE Marvel character is not enough? You need actors that convey the characters in a believable way, and IF the actor is appropriate I'd choose "younger" people like: Reed Richards - Kit Harington Sue Storm - Alice Eve Johnny Storm - KJ Apa Ben Grimm - Luke Evans (and I'm not a an of his) Victor Von Doom - Nikolaj Coster-Waldau Just a thought. |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on May 7, 2017 22:45:14 GMT
Look, at this point EVERYONE knows their origin story. You're missing the point of origin stories. It's not solely to show how they got their powers. It's to introduce the characters before they get them, set up a story arc, tie their powers into that story arc and allow a chance to ground both the characters and the story for the first movie and for all the sequels to come. Iron Man and Cap would never have worked as well as they do without their respective origin stories. The movies are still building off of their original story arcs and will continue to do so even in Avengers 3-4. True, yet the new Spider-Man is not having an Origin story. We have had in less than 12 tears TWO F4 origin stories, and both movies sucked *** |
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Post by DC-Fan on May 7, 2017 22:59:02 GMT
You're missing the point of origin stories. It's not solely to show how they got their powers. It's to introduce the characters before they get them, set up a story arc, tie their powers into that story arc and allow a chance to ground both the characters and the story for the first movie and for all the sequels to come. Iron Man and Cap would never have worked as well as they do without their respective origin stories. The movies are still building off of their original story arcs and will continue to do so even in Avengers 3-4. True, yet the new Spider-Man is not having an Origin story. We have had in less than 12 tears TWO F4 origin stories, and both movies sucked *** The 2005 Fantastic Four movie was good and definitely much better than any of the crap put out by MCU. |
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Post by DC-Fan on May 7, 2017 23:00:53 GMT
Well if you cast anyone over 40 they wont be able to lead a franchise for much longer. Yes I know Downey was in his 40s when he started and he is still going strong but they need younger actors IMO. But NOT people that look like teenagers, tho. Like Tom Holland? Agreed. Teenagers as superheroes. That's already been done with Sky High, Kick-Ass, and Power Rangers.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2017 23:48:11 GMT
You're missing the point of origin stories. It's not solely to show how they got their powers. It's to introduce the characters before they get them, set up a story arc, tie their powers into that story arc and allow a chance to ground both the characters and the story for the first movie and for all the sequels to come. Iron Man and Cap would never have worked as well as they do without their respective origin stories. The movies are still building off of their original story arcs and will continue to do so even in Avengers 3-4. True, yet the new Spider-Man is not having an Origin story. We have had in less than 12 tears TWO F4 origin stories, and both movies sucked *** I'll withhold judgement on the new Spidey until after I see it. But SpiderMan's origin story is not only important to show the physical transformation but vitally important to the character's moral compass. I just don't see how it can work as well without it. But we will see... |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 8, 2017 0:04:09 GMT
You're missing the point of origin stories. It's not solely to show how they got their powers. It's to introduce the characters before they get them, set up a story arc, tie their powers into that story arc and allow a chance to ground both the characters and the story for the first movie and for all the sequels to come. Iron Man and Cap would never have worked as well as they do without their respective origin stories. The movies are still building off of their original story arcs and will continue to do so even in Avengers 3-4. True, yet the new Spider-Man is not having an Origin story. We have had in less than 12 tears TWO F4 origin stories, and both movies sucked *** But that wasn't the fault with the origin story. That was more the fault of the person making the movie. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 8, 2017 0:04:55 GMT
But NOT people that look like teenagers, tho. Like Tom Holland? Agreed. Teenagers as superheroes. That's already been done with Sky High, Kick-Ass, and Power Rangers.
Spider-man is a teenage character. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 8, 2017 0:06:54 GMT
True, yet the new Spider-Man is not having an Origin story. We have had in less than 12 tears TWO F4 origin stories, and both movies sucked *** The 2005 Fantastic Four movie was good and definitely much better than any of the crap put out by MCU. Want some fries to go with that salt? |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 8, 2017 0:10:32 GMT
Well if you cast anyone over 40 they wont be able to lead a franchise for much longer. Yes I know Downey was in his 40s when he started and he is still going strong but they need younger actors IMO. But NOT people that look like teenagers, tho. Who the **** was the genius that saw "Project X" and said: "You know? That guy would make a great Reed Richards..." And Andrew Garfield? WT F? Ruining ONE Marvel character is not enough? You need actors that convey the characters in a believable way, and IF the actor is appropriate I'd choose "younger" people like: Reed Richards - Kit Harington Sue Storm - Alice Eve Johnny Storm - KJ Apa Ben Grimm - Luke Evans (and I'm not a an of his) Victor Von Doom - Nikolaj Coster-Waldau Just a thought. Garfield's Spider-man (character) was better than Tobey's. The second movie might not have been good, but that would be the fault of Sony and, probably, Webb over extending themselves. And Kit Harrington? That guy is more wooden than Keanu Reeves. |
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Post by DC-Fan on May 8, 2017 0:35:00 GMT
Like Tom Holland? Agreed. Teenagers as superheroes. That's already been done with Sky High, Kick-Ass, and Power Rangers.
Spider-man is a teenage character. So were Scott Summers, Jean Grey, Warren Worthington III, and Hank McCoy in the comics. But Fox didn't use teenagers for X-Men: The Movie. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 8, 2017 0:45:49 GMT
All those franchises are self-contained. Anything you get extra is just that, extra. All the books give you extra backstory on characters, objects and places. You don't need to read or watch any of it to get what is going on in the movie you are watching. But watching BvS, can you tell me what the Omega symbol on the ground means? Who were the flying demons in Batman's dream? Who was that guy in the red that was talking to Bruce through the portal? Why was that one pod open in Man of Steel? Why did I have to read a comic to know Kara Zor-El was in it? In BvS, who's suit was that in the case with the spray paint on it? Who put the spray paint on it? These aren't things that background easter eggs because they are points of focus. None of these things are touched upon in the movie they are shown in. Will they be touched on later? Nobody knows. But it shows that those movies aren't self-contained. The movies are self-contained. The things you're referring to are just easter eggs. Easter eggs are good for fans who are familiar with the characters and have seen or read outside material on those characters. But for casual viewers who haven't seen or read outside material, easter eggs aren't central to the plot of the movie and don't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
For example, in Star Trek Generations, there was a scene in which Data was laughing hysterically and reminded Geordi of a joke that was made during the mission to Farpoint Station and Geordi said "Farpoint was 7 years ago and Data said "I know. I just got it." For fans who watched the TV series and know what Data was referring to, that was a nice easter egg. But for casual viewers who didn't watch the TV series, that wasn't central to the plot of the movie and doesn't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
Another example, same movie. When the Borg went aboard the Enterprise and Dr. Crusher had to evacuate sick bay, she activated the Emergency Medical Hologram program and the Doctor for Voyager appeared. Fans who watched the TV series got a laugh from that easter egg. But for casual viewers who didn't watch the TV series, that wasn't central to the plot of the movie and doesn't detract from a casual viewer watching the movie.
Now for something like the Fantastic Four's origin, that's central to a Fantastic Four movie so they can't rely on casual viewers knowing the Fantastic Four's origin, especially since the Fantastic Four's origin isn't as well known to most people as Batman's origin is.
Do you know what an Easter egg is? It's something hidden in the background that a fan would pick up. It's not something that you focus on. Bruce Wayne stood in front of the Robin suit case. He didn't walk by it for a quick glimpse. Diana pulled up video of the people they'll go look for for the Justice League. An Easter egg would be the folders having the symbols of the future Justice League members off to the side on her computer screen. Hell, her part of the movie was dedicated to that information that had nothing to do with the movie at all. And the open pod was not an Easter egg. It was just an open pod in the movie. They gave a reason for it in a side comic you only got when you saw the movie in some theaters. Most of the stuff in the TNG movies were callbacks to stuff from the shows. First Contact had a lot since it was based on when Picard became a Borg. Then you have him mentioning Warf being on DS9. I wouldn't count what happened in those movies as Easter eggs because those movies were just big screen extensions of the show. Like Firefly/Serenity. Um, did you read the post where I gave an example of how they can do a F4 origin in the MCU? Did you see how I made them SHIELD agents and scientists that steal a quinjet to go off into space? One of the problems with some people not wanting an origin is that Fox keeps rebooting them (they'll do it again as a rights grab if they don't come to an agreement with MS). Another problem is that people want them to be the 1st superheroes in the MCU. So they want them already around. |
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Post by ThatGuy on May 8, 2017 0:47:09 GMT
Spider-man is a teenage character. So were Scott Summers, Jean Grey, Warren Worthington III, and Hank McCoy in the comics. But Fox didn't use teenagers for X-Men: The Movie. And they crapped on the X-men, also. Adults and teenagers. So that didn't matter. |
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Post by gomezaddams666 on May 8, 2017 1:02:38 GMT
The 2005 Fantastic Four movie was good and definitely much better than any of the crap put out by MCU. Want some fries to go with that salt?  |
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 8, 2017 1:06:21 GMT
The 2005 Fantastic Four movie was good and definitely much better than any of the crap put out by MCU. Want some fries to go with that salt? He'd probably prefer a more concentrated salt lick.   |
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? Ruining ONE Marvel character is not enough?
