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Post by sostie on Aug 28, 2020 14:09:24 GMT
The only thing different is that they're kowtowing to SJW's this time around. How exactly?
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DarkManX
Junior Member
@shadowrun
Posts: 2,266
Likes: 1,100
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Post by DarkManX on Aug 28, 2020 15:30:02 GMT
The only thing different is that they're kowtowing to SJW's this time around. How exactly? Gordon and Catwoman are black. Or did you not notice?
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Post by sostie on Aug 28, 2020 15:38:50 GMT
Gordon and Catwoman are black. Or did you not notice? Meh. Catwoman was black in the 60s and 00s. Care as much about Gordon being black as I did Dent being black in he 80s. No big deal
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thenolan
Sophomore
@thenolan
Posts: 778
Likes: 162
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Post by thenolan on Aug 28, 2020 16:20:19 GMT
Gordon and Catwoman are black. Or did you not notice? Catwoman can be black and white. that is not surprising. Batman always pushing story telling limits.
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Post by dazz on Aug 28, 2020 19:07:15 GMT
Gordon and Catwoman are black. Or did you not notice? Catwoman can be black and white. that is not surprising. Batman always pushing story telling limits. How exactly is making a criminal character black pushing storytelling limits? Race swapping isn't pushing limits if their race doesn't alter their character at their core, the defining parts of Gordon and Catwoman isn't tied to their race so it literally is just a palette swap, now if they made Batman black that would be something, same as if they made Superman black, changing their race alters their stories significantly, Bruce Wayne a man who grew up in high society a primarily white environment now is a minority character, Superman the alien growing up in middle America now is a minority character, growing up black would alter their personalities and experiences significantly, Selena is a crook who grew up in the shit, a different skin tone won't alter her too much, Gordon still can carry that same ideal and drive, to clean up the corruption of the system that is broken, all being black would do here is add a additional reason for that, the interesting part will be if they use Batgirl down the road and if/how they utilise the race thing in that character.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 30, 2020 16:55:25 GMT
Batman looks like typical Batman. They're even using the Riddler again. The only thing different is that they're kowtowing to SJW's this time around. That was 25 years ago to be fair, I think a reuse once every quarter century is fair don't you? When you have a rogues gallery as rich as Batman's, I do think it's a bit unimaginative to reuse the Penguin. I much preferred their original plan to go with Deathstroke.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 30, 2020 21:04:53 GMT
Catwoman can be black and white. that is not surprising. Batman always pushing story telling limits. How exactly is making a criminal character black pushing storytelling limits? Race swapping isn't pushing limits if their race doesn't alter their character at their core, the defining parts of Gordon and Catwoman isn't tied to their race so it literally is just a palette swap, now if they made Batman black that would be something, same as if they made Superman black, changing their race alters their stories significantly, Bruce Wayne a man who grew up in high society a primarily white environment now is a minority character, Superman the alien growing up in middle America now is a minority character, growing up black would alter their personalities and experiences significantly, Selena is a crook who grew up in the shit, a different skin tone won't alter her too much, Gordon still can carry that same ideal and drive, to clean up the corruption of the system that is broken, all being black would do here is add a additional reason for that, the interesting part will be if they use Batgirl down the road and if/how they utilise the race thing in that character. Funny part is that Zoe Kravitz looks like she could be Jeffrey Wright's daughter and could have been Batgirl.
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Post by dazz on Aug 30, 2020 22:57:14 GMT
That was 25 years ago to be fair, I think a reuse once every quarter century is fair don't you? When you have a rogues gallery as rich as Batman's, I do think it's a bit unimaginative to reuse the Penguin. I much preferred their original plan to go with Deathstroke. Depends on they why though, and how they use the character, like we moan that oh they just keep using Joker but when you look at the 4 different live action Joker's we have had in the movies they are all very different, it wasn't unimaginitive for Nolan to use Joker given how vastly different to the Jack Napier Joker that we got. Plus it's DC look at the depth of characters in general they have and yet look how unimaginitive they are in needing to constantly revolve everything around Batman related property, despite holy shit look the biggest DC movie ever was Aquaman, DC is stuck in it's ways and will bleed Batman and his related most well known enemies dry until no one ever wants to see them again, it's their way.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 30, 2020 23:14:00 GMT
At this point, there have been a total of at least six shows and movies where Catwoman has been black (assuming we’re counting Halle Berry’s version). It’s not really anything special by now.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 31, 2020 2:27:43 GMT
When you have a rogues gallery as rich as Batman's, I do think it's a bit unimaginative to reuse the Penguin. I much preferred their original plan to go with Deathstroke. Depends on they why though, and how they use the character, like we moan that oh they just keep using Joker but when you look at the 4 different live action Joker's we have had in the movies they are all very different, it wasn't unimaginitive for Nolan to use Joker given how vastly different to the Jack Napier Joker that we got. Plus it's DC look at the depth of characters in general they have and yet look how unimaginitive they are in needing to constantly revolve everything around Batman related property, despite holy shit look the biggest DC movie ever was Aquaman, DC is stuck in it's ways and will bleed Batman and his related most well known enemies dry until no one ever wants to see them again, it's their way. Fear of the unknown. Fall back on something you know that people like. They even fear the idea of a Nightwing movie because he's Robin and "people think Robin is stupid."
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 31, 2020 18:37:34 GMT
When you have a rogues gallery as rich as Batman's, I do think it's a bit unimaginative to reuse the Penguin. I much preferred their original plan to go with Deathstroke. Depends on they why though, and how they use the character, like we moan that oh they just keep using Joker but when you look at the 4 different live action Joker's we have had in the movies they are all very different, it wasn't unimaginitive for Nolan to use Joker given how vastly different to the Jack Napier Joker that we got. Plus it's DC look at the depth of characters in general they have and yet look how unimaginitive they are in needing to constantly revolve everything around Batman related property, despite holy shit look the biggest DC movie ever was Aquaman, DC is stuck in it's ways and will bleed Batman and his related most well known enemies dry until no one ever wants to see them again, it's their way. You know as a kid, Batman was one of my favorite superheroes (despite the fact that I preferred more Marvel comics to DC). But DC had this habit of putting him front and center in everything, overpowering him and shoving him in your face that I eventually got tired of him. Marvel almost did the same thing with Wolverine but that didn't happen till later on and not quite to the extent of Batman. Looks like DC still hasn't changed in these past few years.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 31, 2020 19:24:14 GMT
Depends on they why though, and how they use the character, like we moan that oh they just keep using Joker but when you look at the 4 different live action Joker's we have had in the movies they are all very different, it wasn't unimaginitive for Nolan to use Joker given how vastly different to the Jack Napier Joker that we got. Plus it's DC look at the depth of characters in general they have and yet look how unimaginitive they are in needing to constantly revolve everything around Batman related property, despite holy shit look the biggest DC movie ever was Aquaman, DC is stuck in it's ways and will bleed Batman and his related most well known enemies dry until no one ever wants to see them again, it's their way. You know as a kid, Batman was one of my favorite superheroes (despite the fact that I preferred more Marvel comics to DC). But DC had this habit of putting him front and center in everything, overpowering him and shoving him in your face that I eventually got tired of him. Marvel almost did the same thing with Wolverine but that didn't happen till later on and not quite to the extent of Batman. Looks like DC still hasn't changed in these past few years. They’ve gotten a little better about it in recent years. Batman still receives more attention than the other characters, but we’re starting to see more attention being given to characters like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. I just wish they would stop with the evil Superman stories.
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Post by dazz on Aug 31, 2020 19:43:36 GMT
You know as a kid, Batman was one of my favorite superheroes (despite the fact that I preferred more Marvel comics to DC). But DC had this habit of putting him front and center in everything, overpowering him and shoving him in your face that I eventually got tired of him. Marvel almost did the same thing with Wolverine but that didn't happen till later on and not quite to the extent of Batman. Looks like DC still hasn't changed in these past few years. They’ve gotten a little better about it in recent years. Batman still receives more attention than the other characters, but we’re starting to see more attention being given to characters like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. I just wish they would stop with the evil Superman stories. Not really, just because they greenlit sequels doesn't mean they aren't still as focused on Batman, just means those other films are doing as well or better than Batman...hmm maybe there is a correlation? We still have what 4 Batman related TV shows, a 5th on it's way, Batman was the overwhelming constant in the DC animated movie universe, he's still the primary guy in the films, he features prominently in Young Justice and has a new movie coming out whilst his bat related posse have had 2 feature films about them in the last year...Robin said it best in Titans.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 31, 2020 20:00:51 GMT
They’ve gotten a little better about it in recent years. Batman still receives more attention than the other characters, but we’re starting to see more attention being given to characters like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. I just wish they would stop with the evil Superman stories. Not really, just because they greenlit sequels doesn't mean they aren't still as focused on Batman, just means those other films are doing as well or better than Batman...hmm maybe there is a correlation? We still have what 4 Batman related TV shows, a 5th on it's way, Batman was the overwhelming constant in the DC animated movie universe, he's still the primary guy in the films, he features prominently in Young Justice and has a new movie coming out whilst his bat related posse have had 2 feature films about them in the last year...Robin said it best in Titans. I specifically stated that Batman still receives more attention than the other characters. I’m simply saying that some of the other characters are starting to receive more attention compared to how things were five years ago. Also, four Batman shows? Pretty sure that’s not the case.
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Post by politicidal on Sept 1, 2020 0:06:57 GMT
That was 25 years ago to be fair, I think a reuse once every quarter century is fair don't you? When you have a rogues gallery as rich as Batman's, I do think it's a bit unimaginative to reuse the Penguin. I much preferred their original plan to go with Deathstroke. What was the plot that made him become involved anyway?
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Post by dazz on Sept 1, 2020 0:44:41 GMT
Not really, just because they greenlit sequels doesn't mean they aren't still as focused on Batman, just means those other films are doing as well or better than Batman...hmm maybe there is a correlation? We still have what 4 Batman related TV shows, a 5th on it's way, Batman was the overwhelming constant in the DC animated movie universe, he's still the primary guy in the films, he features prominently in Young Justice and has a new movie coming out whilst his bat related posse have had 2 feature films about them in the last year...Robin said it best in Titans. I specifically stated that Batman still receives more attention than the other characters. I’m simply saying that some of the other characters are starting to receive more attention compared to how things were five years ago. Also, four Batman shows? Pretty sure that’s not the case. What I meant was that has always been the case, they pepper in other properties around the Batman ones but still Batman is the one they focus on, only difference is these other films are now doing as well or better than Batman movies, where as in the past the non-Batman movies didn't do so hot, or atleast were perceived that way, Superman Returns actually was a higher grossing movie than Batman Begins, and both lost a shit ton at the theatres, but DC decided to carry on with Batman and start from scratch with Superman. As for the shows, no seriously, Pennyworth, Batwoman, Titans, Harley Quinn with Gotham PD or whatever it's going to be called coming out in the next year or two and Gotham literally only ended last year as well, I count Titans due to them actually using Batman/Bruce in S1 and S2 as well as including Jason Todd and most of the story kind of being Dick's story mostly stemming from his time with Batman so his finger prints are all over that show so far, I dunno how Teen Titan's Go utilises the character so I didn't count it, Young Justice is spread out enough that I don't count it as a Batman related show though he does feature in it in a prominent from time to time.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 1, 2020 1:04:13 GMT
I specifically stated that Batman still receives more attention than the other characters. I’m simply saying that some of the other characters are starting to receive more attention compared to how things were five years ago. Also, four Batman shows? Pretty sure that’s not the case. What I meant was that has always been the case, they pepper in other properties around the Batman ones but still Batman is the one they focus on, only difference is these other films are now doing as well or better than Batman movies, where as in the past the non-Batman movies didn't do so hot, or atleast were perceived that way, Superman Returns actually was a higher grossing movie than Batman Begins, and both lost a shit ton at the theatres, but DC decided to carry on with Batman and start from scratch with Superman. As for the shows, no seriously, Pennyworth, Batwoman, Titans, Harley Quinn with Gotham PD or whatever it's going to be called coming out in the next year or two and Gotham literally only ended last year as well, I count Titans due to them actually using Batman/Bruce in S1 and S2 as well as including Jason Todd and most of the story kind of being Dick's story mostly stemming from his time with Batman so his finger prints are all over that show so far, I dunno how Teen Titan's Go utilises the character so I didn't count it, Young Justice is spread out enough that I don't count it as a Batman related show though he does feature in it in a prominent from time to time. They made a sequel to Batman Begins because that film had a significantly lower budget than Superman Returns, and it actually had strong audience reception. SR was just seen as a bore that banked too hard on people’s nostalgia for the first two Christopher Reeve movies. Admittedly, I completely forgot about Pennyworth, so I guess that’s fair enough.
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Post by dazz on Sept 1, 2020 2:21:22 GMT
What I meant was that has always been the case, they pepper in other properties around the Batman ones but still Batman is the one they focus on, only difference is these other films are now doing as well or better than Batman movies, where as in the past the non-Batman movies didn't do so hot, or atleast were perceived that way, Superman Returns actually was a higher grossing movie than Batman Begins, and both lost a shit ton at the theatres, but DC decided to carry on with Batman and start from scratch with Superman. As for the shows, no seriously, Pennyworth, Batwoman, Titans, Harley Quinn with Gotham PD or whatever it's going to be called coming out in the next year or two and Gotham literally only ended last year as well, I count Titans due to them actually using Batman/Bruce in S1 and S2 as well as including Jason Todd and most of the story kind of being Dick's story mostly stemming from his time with Batman so his finger prints are all over that show so far, I dunno how Teen Titan's Go utilises the character so I didn't count it, Young Justice is spread out enough that I don't count it as a Batman related show though he does feature in it in a prominent from time to time. They made a sequel to Batman Begins because that film had a significantly lower budget than Superman Returns, and it actually had strong audience reception. SR was just seen as a bore that banked too hard on people’s nostalgia for the first two Christopher Reeve movies. Admittedly, I completely forgot about Pennyworth, so I guess that’s fair enough. Yeah but DC then upped the budget of TDK close to the cost of Returns, despite Begins not even making enough to cover it's own cost at the box office, TDK only got greenlit after Begins made like $150m in DVD sales, Returns also did insanely well in the home media markets also, DC wanted to make more Batman is all it was so they found the excuse to do so, then spent more on the sequel than they did on Begins even though the only greenlit the movie after it barely made a profit on the DVD's. DC just thinks Batman is the only thing that sells, so they primarily sell Batman, then when only Batman has huge numbers they think it's a sign that they are right...otherwise where is our Wonder woman or Aquaman TV shows? why did we get a Harley Quinn TV show despite Suicide Squad where Harley is just one of the leads did significantly less business than either Wonder Woman or Aquaman? She's a Batman related character and they can add Batman to the series is my guess.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 1, 2020 2:24:33 GMT
They made a sequel to Batman Begins because that film had a significantly lower budget than Superman Returns, and it actually had strong audience reception. SR was just seen as a bore that banked too hard on people’s nostalgia for the first two Christopher Reeve movies. Admittedly, I completely forgot about Pennyworth, so I guess that’s fair enough. Yeah but DC then upped the budget of TDK close to the cost of Returns, despite Begins not even making enough to cover it's own cost at the box office, TDK only got greenlit after Begins made like $150m in DVD sales, Returns also did insanely well in the home media markets also, DC wanted to make more Batman is all it was so they found the excuse to do so, then spent more on the sequel than they did on Begins even though the only greenlit the movie after it barely made a profit on the DVD's. DC just thinks Batman is the only thing that sells, so they primarily sell Batman, then when only Batman has huge numbers they think it's a sign that they are right...otherwise where is our Wonder woman or Aquaman TV shows? why did we get a Harley Quinn TV show despite Suicide Squad where Harley is just one of the leads did significantly less business than either Wonder Woman or Aquaman? She's a Batman related character and they can add Batman to the series is my guess. I'm still completely baffled and irked on how they made a Harley Quinn movie before making a MoS2.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 1, 2020 2:31:23 GMT
They made a sequel to Batman Begins because that film had a significantly lower budget than Superman Returns, and it actually had strong audience reception. SR was just seen as a bore that banked too hard on people’s nostalgia for the first two Christopher Reeve movies. Admittedly, I completely forgot about Pennyworth, so I guess that’s fair enough. Yeah but DC then upped the budget of TDK close to the cost of Returns, despite Begins not even making enough to cover it's own cost at the box office, TDK only got greenlit after Begins made like $150m in DVD sales, Returns also did insanely well in the home media markets also, DC wanted to make more Batman is all it was so they found the excuse to do so, then spent more on the sequel than they did on Begins even though the only greenlit the movie after it barely made a profit on the DVD's. DC just thinks Batman is the only thing that sells, so they primarily sell Batman, then when only Batman has huge numbers they think it's a sign that they are right...otherwise where is our Wonder woman or Aquaman TV shows? why did we get a Harley Quinn TV show despite Suicide Squad where Harley is just one of the leads did significantly less business than either Wonder Woman or Aquaman? She's a Batman related character and they can add Batman to the series is my guess. Harley Quinn sells a lot of merch, and is essentially a female Deadpool, which means that it’s easy to make a raunchy adult cartoon about her, and those are really popular right now. She was even one of the most popular Halloween costumes of 2016. That’s why she has her own cartoon. I say this as someone who hates Harley Quinn in all her incarnations, but WB’s fondness for her at this point doesn’t have much to do with Batman. She’s basically branched out into her own brand at this point. Also, they could easily include Batman in a Wonder Woman or Aquaman show. They don’t base who gets their own show purely on box office numbers for a single movie. If they did, Green Arrow and the Flash would never have gotten their own shows. Also, a SR sequel would’ve been riskier than a BB sequel. Besides, WB still made a new Superman movie not too long after SR. It just wasn’t a sequel.
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