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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2020 21:47:25 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] < clips >
- Yes I have [seen a heart transplant]. So can everyone else.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kriob0nAuyU - Is every belief really as (ir)rational as another? Is 'faith' the same for everything everywhere? To avoid being inconsistent Arlon would have to accept that the earth is both flat and round, his website is both ...
- where there is evidence there is no need for faith.
- I see you found a "video" that doesn't show even one disconnection from the old heart or even one connection being made to the new heart. The video conveniently skips that. Cameras too big? Did you do that on purpose to honor me, or can you really not find a more convincing video? That one looks like props from the new television show Transplant.
- As usual you are distracted by what you believe I said. I did not say everything is equally believable. I said that no evidence of one preposterous idea is equal to no evidence of a similar one. You suffer from the delusion that your specific beliefs here are somehow not preposterous. By the way you failed to show any criteria for rating beliefs, not that it matters here.
- Where there is no religious faith, there is no need for evidence.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2020 21:52:54 GMT
As I expected you were not able to pay attention. We are going to let that slide today. Please try not to get me in trouble in getting in any trouble yourself. So far you have failed to describe an ad hominem coherently yourself and should avoid challenging other descriptions. Please notice that you have the parties involved all mixed up. The argument is "religion" whether Trump makes any "argument" or not. He is topical only because he attempts to represent religion. Of course any attempt to "represent" religion might be loosely defined as an "argument" but you are too oblivious to follow these things. Have you tried bird watching? You didn't say what Trump's argument was, just something general you feel fit to 'loosely define'. Evasion noted. The expression is argumentum ad hominem not argumentum ab hominem.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2020 21:56:47 GMT
So far you have failed to describe an ad hominem coherently yourself and should avoid challenging other descriptions. Please notice that you have the parties involved all mixed up. He described what an ad hominem was adequately enough that a person of average intelligence who wasn't a mindless troll could easily grasp the concept. He showed what the children who run the internet will accept as an explanation despite it being insane.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2020 22:05:09 GMT
Have you witnessed a heart transplant? No? Do you believe in them? See the double standard? Are you claiming they don't happen unless you 'believe' in them? What total crapola beeswax! You are insane. Do you mean like believing in extraterrestrials? No, I do not believe in extraterrestrials and will not without seeing very convincing and unassailable evidence myself.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 11, 2020 22:36:49 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] < clips >
- Yes I have [seen a heart transplant]. So can everyone else.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kriob0nAuyU - Is every belief really as (ir)rational as another? Is 'faith' the same for everything everywhere? To avoid being inconsistent Arlon would have to accept that the earth is both flat and round, his website is both ...
- where there is evidence there is no need for faith.
- I see you found a "video" that doesn't show even one disconnection from the old heart or even one connection being made to the new heart. The video conveniently skips that. Cameras too big? Did you do that on purpose to honor me, or can you really not find a more convincing video? That one looks like props from the new television show Transplant.
- As usual you are distracted by what you believe I said. I did not say everything is equally believable. I said that no evidence of one preposterous idea is equal to no evidence of a similar one. You suffer from the delusion that your specific beliefs here are somehow not preposterous. By the way you failed to show any criteria for rating beliefs, not that it matters here.
- Where there is no religious faith, there is no need for evidence.
A. You didn't specify exactly what you were looking for, but there are other videos easily to be found on YouTube which may suit you better. However there comes a point when one feels you are rejecting what is provided for reasons other than what is clearly being exampled. B. What you actually said was " faith in science was just as bad as faith in religion." where my point was, and still is, that faith is simply not of the same type for everything. For instance the faith that heart transplants occur is not the same as the faith that a virgin was magically impregnated by a deity, or that Covid can best be cured by a vaccine rather than dunking your head in holy water. We, including you, do not give everything in life equal weight, but use reason to distinguish matters - both points you didn't deny. So why aren't you here? As for the rating of our beliefs, evidence and proof help out. For most of us anyway. Those without such just end up being credulous about any old thing, which really can be preposterous. Of course blind faith in anything can be dangerous. But that is not what is being distinguished here. C. Thank you for another non sequitur.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 11, 2020 22:46:11 GMT
Are you claiming they don't happen unless you 'believe' in them? What total crapola beeswax! You are insane. Do you mean like believing in extraterrestrials? No, I do not believe in extraterrestrials and will not without seeing very convincing and unassailable evidence myself. A shame you don't hold the purported deliberate supernatural to the same strict test before attributing anything to it for certain. And at least we know that in nature life exists.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2020 23:03:23 GMT
FilmFlaneur said: [ full text here] - I see you found a "video" that doesn't show even one disconnection from the old heart or even one connection being made to the new heart. The video conveniently skips that. Cameras too big? Did you do that on purpose to honor me, or can you really not find a more convincing video? That one looks like props from the new television show Transplant.
- As usual you are distracted by what you believe I said. I did not say everything is equally believable. I said that no evidence of one preposterous idea is equal to no evidence of a similar one. You suffer from the delusion that your specific beliefs here are somehow not preposterous. By the way you failed to show any criteria for rating beliefs, not that it matters here.
- Where there is no religious faith, there is no need for evidence.
A. You didn't specify exactly what you were looking for, but there are other videos easily to be found on YouTube which may suit you better. However there comes a point when one feels you are rejecting what is provided for reasons other than what is clearly being exampled. B. What you actually said was " faith in science was just as bad as faith in religion." where my point was, and still is, that faith is simply not of the same type for everything. For instance the faith that heart transplants occur is not the same as the faith that a virgin was magically impregnated by a deity. We, including you, do not give everything in life equal weight, but use reason to distinguish matters - both points you didn't deny. So why aren't you here? As for the rating of our beliefs, evidence and proof help out. For most of us anyway. Those without such just end up being credulous about any old thing, which really can be preposterous. C. Thank you for another non sequitur. That means on the whole, not in every little example detail. People who believe in science believe in some more and some less believable things. People who believe in religion believe in some more and some less believable things. The people who believe in science believe just as unbelievable things just as often. That's what I meant and exactly what those words say. Actually faith in science is often worse. Where did you get the idea every instance of belief in science or religion is equal? I told you before, but you don't like to discuss that.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 11, 2020 23:19:57 GMT
A. You didn't specify exactly what you were looking for, but there are other videos easily to be found on YouTube which may suit you better. However there comes a point when one feels you are rejecting what is provided for reasons other than what is clearly being exampled. B. What you actually said was " faith in science was just as bad as faith in religion." where my point was, and still is, that faith is simply not of the same type for everything. For instance the faith that heart transplants occur is not the same as the faith that a virgin was magically impregnated by a deity. We, including you, do not give everything in life equal weight, but use reason to distinguish matters - both points you didn't deny. So why aren't you here? As for the rating of our beliefs, evidence and proof help out. For most of us anyway. Those without such just end up being credulous about any old thing, which really can be preposterous. C. Thank you for another non sequitur. That means on the whole, not in every little example detail. People who believe in science believe in some more and some less believable things. People who believe in religion believe in some more and some less believable things. The people who believe in science believe far more often in things far less believable. That's what I meant and exactly what my words say. Where did you get the idea every instance of belief in science or religion is equal? I told you before, but you don't like to discuss that. Whether or not those who follow science believe far more often in things 'far less believable' is a different matter than comparing the perils of faith more generally and just another one of your sweeping unsubstantiated opinions to boot. I have already made clear, and you have not disputed the fact, that everyone uses reason to distinguish between different beliefs (and in fact with your last sentence you have done just that). But is it really far less reasonable to believe more in something which is by practice evidenced or proved, or theorised from such evidence or proof? As for the idea that instances of belief (or faith) in science or religion are supposedly equal in worthlessness you have very kindly coloured in your relevant words above as a help. But now with "faith in science is often worse" you have changed your claim again, still without substantiation. Maybe you really would take a bucket of holy water over essential heart surgery you have never seen. But whatever, make yer mind up,
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 11, 2020 23:31:54 GMT
That means on the whole, not in every little example detail. People who believe in science believe in some more and some less believable things. People who believe in religion believe in some more and some less believable things. The people who believe in science believe far more often in things far less believable. That's what I meant and exactly what my words say. Where did you get the idea every instance of belief in science or religion is equal? I told you before, but you don't like to discuss that. Whether or not those who follow science believe far more often in things 'far less believable' is a different matter and just another one of your sweeping opinions. I have already made clear, and you have not disputed the fact, that everyone uses reason to distinguish between different beliefs (and in fact with your last sentence you have done just that!) Is it really far less believable or reasonable to believe more in something which is by practice evidenced or proved, or theorised from such evidence or proof? As for the idea that instances of belief (or faith) in science or religion are equal, you have very kindly coloured in your relevant words above as a help. It has never been quantified with the precision required exactly what various people believe in various things in order to use the word "equal." I did not use that word. You merely imagined it because you imagined some scenario where every little belief was equal or summed up equal. You are filling in details that make no sense. "Just as bad" might indeed be exactly the case at one time or another, but with normal changes it cannot be tracked exactly how equal. Again, it is more often the case that science appears worse. You got all excited about not failing when indeed you did fail. It is often because your concept of precision is so very unrealistic and annoying. Another mentally retarded person here reads surveys as if they are high precision exercises. He also has an unrealistic concept of precision. You expect all "science" to have the precision of science ceteris paribus. I explained how statistical analysis usually cannot even come close to such precision.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 11, 2020 23:51:54 GMT
Whether or not those who follow science believe far more often in things 'far less believable' is a different matter and just another one of your sweeping opinions. I have already made clear, and you have not disputed the fact, that everyone uses reason to distinguish between different beliefs (and in fact with your last sentence you have done just that!) Is it really far less believable or reasonable to believe more in something which is by practice evidenced or proved, or theorised from such evidence or proof? As for the idea that instances of belief (or faith) in science or religion are equal, you have very kindly coloured in your relevant words above as a help. It has never been quantified with the precision required exactly what various people believe in various things in order to use the word "equal." I did not use that word. You merely imagined it because you imagined some scenario where every little belief was equal or summed up equal. You are filling in details that make no sense. "Just as bad" might indeed be exactly the case at one time or another, but with normal changes it cannot be tracked exactly how equal. Again, it is more often the case that science appears worse. You got all excited about not failing when indeed you did fail. It is often because your concept of precision is so very unrealistic and annoying. The bottom line here is, still, that everyone distinguishes between different beliefs by use of reason, which you yourself have done here, so that not every article of faith is equal- whether you originally meant that with "faith in science [is] just as bad as faith in religion" or not. Some beliefs are inherently worse than others, which is true. But those are most likely to be those predicated around a lack of evidence or proof. I hope that helps. I did enjoy the inevitable rowing back, and your weasley words that things are "not quantified" and that science now only " appears worse" btw LOL But now as you are starting off once again with deeply personal insults instead of argument, I will leave you to it as it brings that familiar sense that you have nothing else left to offer. Have a nice day.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 12, 2020 0:06:08 GMT
It has never been quantified with the precision required exactly what various people believe in various things in order to use the word "equal." I did not use that word. You merely imagined it because you imagined some scenario where every little belief was equal or summed up equal. You are filling in details that make no sense. "Just as bad" might indeed be exactly the case at one time or another, but with normal changes it cannot be tracked exactly how equal. Again, it is more often the case that science appears worse. You got all excited about not failing when indeed you did fail. It is often because your concept of precision is so very unrealistic and annoying. The bottom line here is, still, that everyone distinguishes between different beliefs by use of reason, which you yourself have done here, so that not every article of faith is equal- whether you originally meant that with "faith in science [is] just as bad as faith in religion" or not. Some beliefs are inherently worse than others, which is true. But those are most likely to be those predicated around a lack of evidence or proof. I hope that helps. I did enjoy the inevitable rowing back, and your weasley words that things are "not quantified" and that science now only " appears worse" btw LOL But now as you are starting off once again with deeply personal insults instead of argument I will leave you to it as it brings with it a sense that you have nothing else left. Have a nice day. The bottom line here is that "equality" is not relevant to this discussion as I explained, whatever you imagine I meant. "Equality" might be meaningful in science ceteris paribus, which you incorrectly think you can use all the time. Attempting to be more precise than is realistically possible does not make you seem more intelligent. You cannot know the age of the Earth to within two percent. Are infinite expanses of space different than infinite expanses of time? Certainly. What does that have to do with the discussion of first causes? Nothing. Notice the patterns.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 12, 2020 18:49:22 GMT
The bottom line here is that "equality" is not relevant to this discussion Notice the patterns. Pattern of contradiction noted. Thank you. See you on the next thread.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 12, 2020 20:07:12 GMT
The bottom line here is that "equality" is not relevant to this discussion Notice the patterns. Pattern of contradiction noted. Thank you. See you on the next thread. Apples are just as bad as oranges? There is nothing wrong with the sentence. Notice however it is comparing different things. The notion of "equality" doesn't apply. It means in a certain context they are "just" as bad. Their "equality" is just the random meanderings of your never present mind. One of your many failures is noticing context. Have you seen those websites that list "hundreds" of "contradictions" in the Bible? It is like the people who sponsor those websites never heard of context. Those are not really contradictions, not even one of them. One reason you try to ignore context, or argue it down, is your tragically simple mind. You want simple sentences that apply to everything no matter the context. If a book of the Bible says it is "to the Philippians" it might have lessons that can be extracted for Americans or Russians, but perhaps not exactly. They are not Philippians. Notice you quote me out of context. Where is that context? Of course the websites with the "hundreds" of "contradictions" in the Bible are still there. That's because the people who sponsor them are very severely mentally retarded, almost as bad as you. Somewhere along the line you must have crossed up some really evil people. Maybe you got too close to the girlfriend of a Satanist. I don't know what drugs or chemicals or injuries they inflicted on you, but it was really bad. You never got over the childish notion that definitions exist outside anyone using them. They do not. You keep insisting on what "words" mean instead of what "people" mean when they use them. Again, you have utterly no sense of context. That is very rude and annoying, but I doubt you can help yourself. You simply have no sense of surroundings. Many people today think that if anyone is "religious" it means they failed science. The opposite is usually the case. People who consider themselves "scientific" in all things failed everything else including much science.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Sept 13, 2020 3:53:40 GMT
Are you claiming they don't happen unless you 'believe' in them? What total crapola beeswax! You are insane. Do you mean like believing in extraterrestrials? No, I do not believe in extraterrestrials and will not without seeing very convincing and unassailable evidence myself. What are the things you do believe in where you do not require "very convincing and unassailable evidence?"
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Sept 13, 2020 3:59:31 GMT
The bottom line here is that "equality" is not relevant to this discussion Notice the patterns. Pattern of contradiction noted. Thank you. See you on the next thread. People should not have faith in science. However, since I'm not a scientist, I have to expend some trust that science will provide answers to the questions posed it, because I understand its methods and ethics. I am skeptical of pseudoscience and faith-based claims as they have proven time and again to be untrustworthy.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 13, 2020 5:49:59 GMT
Do you mean like believing in extraterrestrials? No, I do not believe in extraterrestrials and will not without seeing very convincing and unassailable evidence myself. What are the things you do believe in where you do not require "very convincing and unassailable evidence?" I think you'll find my list of beliefs is rather short compared to quite most other people. I believe in the findings of science ceteris paribus. That does not include quite many things other people believe science has "found." I believe that "revelations" are possible and a valid way of knowing things, for the people who have them if not others. Some Hindu disciplines hold that revelation is the only way to know things. I have not had any "revelations" myself. That is, unless you count the strong feeling I have that I am a spirit different from and perhaps existing beyond my body.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Sept 13, 2020 5:58:13 GMT
What are the things you do believe in where you do not require "very convincing and unassailable evidence?" I think you'll find my list of beliefs is rather short compared to quite most other people. I believe in the findings of science ceteris paribus. That does not include quite many things other people believe science has "found." I believe that "revelations" are possible and a valid way of knowing things, for the people who have them if not others. Some Hindu disciplines hold that revelation is the only way to know things. I have not had any "revelations" myself. That is, unless you count the strong feeling I have that I am a spirit different from and perhaps existing beyond my body. And what advice do you have for a person who does not "know things" with their intuition? Should I just trust those who say they do know, no questions asked, or should I be skeptical of them? And I have no idea what exists beyond the body, but here yet again, you twist what people write into something else. If I say you seem like a spiritual person, why would you think I have a strong feeling you are a spirit existing beyond your body? Please connect the dots on that.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 13, 2020 6:11:24 GMT
I think you'll find my list of beliefs is rather short compared to quite most other people. I believe in the findings of science ceteris paribus. That does not include quite many things other people believe science has "found." I believe that "revelations" are possible and a valid way of knowing things, for the people who have them if not others. Some Hindu disciplines hold that revelation is the only way to know things. I have not had any "revelations" myself. That is, unless you count the strong feeling I have that I am a spirit different from and perhaps existing beyond my body. And what advice do you have for a person who does not "know things" with their intuition? Should I just trust those who say they do know, no questions asked, or should I be skeptical of them? And I have no idea what exists beyond the body, but here yet again, you twist what people write into something else. If I say you seem like a spiritual person, why would you think I have a strong feeling you are a spirit existing beyond your body? Please connect the dots on that. I don't know and did not think that. I'm sorry the answers to your other questions have not been revealed to me.
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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Sept 13, 2020 6:12:46 GMT
And what advice do you have for a person who does not "know things" with their intuition? Should I just trust those who say they do know, no questions asked, or should I be skeptical of them? And I have no idea what exists beyond the body, but here yet again, you twist what people write into something else. If I say you seem like a spiritual person, why would you think I have a strong feeling you are a spirit existing beyond your body? Please connect the dots on that. I don't know and did not think that. I'm sorry the answers to your other questions have not been revealed to me. That is, unless you count the strong feeling I have that I am a spirit different from and perhaps existing beyond my body.Then please explain what this sentence means.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 13, 2020 6:18:06 GMT
I don't know and did not think that. I'm sorry the answers to your other questions have not been revealed to me. That is, unless you count the strong feeling I have that I am a spirit different from and perhaps existing beyond my body.Then please explain what this sentence means. I do not count it as a "revelation." I have no idea what any other people count as revelations, including you.
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