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Post by darkpast on Sept 3, 2020 3:31:35 GMT
Boyega still had time spent on him too. So what? I think Han and Leia did a little more than scream "LUKE!" Did Han fight the big villain Vader in the OT? No. Finn took on Kylo Ren and lasted a few mins against him. Of course his character went downhill after that.
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Post by dazz on Sept 3, 2020 4:36:22 GMT
I think Han and Leia did a little more than scream "LUKE!" Did Han fight the big villain Vader in the OT? No. Finn took on Kylo Ren and lasted a few mins against him. Of course his character went downhill after that. Vader was a feared and merciless killer who struck fear into people and only got bested outright by the hero one time in the finale of the trilogy, Kylo was an emo bitch throwing hissy fits and getting his arse handed to him every movie, Han is also just a smuggler where as Fin is a child soldier trained from adolescence. Also Han technically defeated Vader in ANH when he sneak attacked him during the trench run, after which Han showed character growth and whilst funny retained a level of seriousness, Finn got put into a leaking water suit and regressed as a character making his arc in TFA pointless, Han evolved through the series by all accounts Finn does not he just regresses between movies and takes the same journey over and over again.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Sept 3, 2020 4:52:09 GMT
Did Han fight the big villain Vader in the OT? No. Finn took on Kylo Ren and lasted a few mins against him. Of course his character went downhill after that. Vader was a feared and merciless killer who struck fear into people and only got bested outright by the hero one time in the finale of the trilogy, Kylo was an emo bitch throwing hissy fits and getting his arse handed to him every movie, Han is also just a smuggler where as Fin is a child soldier trained from adolescence. Also Han technically defeated Vader in ANH when he sneak attacked him during the trench run, after which Han showed character growth and whilst funny retained a level of seriousness, Finn got put into a leaking water suit and regressed as a character making his arc in TFA pointless, Han evolved through the series by all accounts Finn does not he just regresses between movies and takes the same journey over and over again. No way, mang! Finn learned to take down a Star Destroyer fleet with space horses! From janitor to space calvalry leader! Dude had a mad journey, yo!
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 3, 2020 5:00:53 GMT
Did Han fight the big villain Vader in the OT? No. Finn took on Kylo Ren and lasted a few mins against him. Of course his character went downhill after that. Vader was a feared and merciless killer who struck fear into people and only got bested outright by the hero one time in the finale of the trilogy, Kylo was an emo bitch throwing hissy fits and getting his arse handed to him every movie, Han is also just a smuggler where as Fin is a child soldier trained from adolescence. Also Han technically defeated Vader in ANH when he sneak attacked him during the trench run, after which Han showed character growth and whilst funny retained a level of seriousness, Finn got put into a leaking water suit and regressed as a character making his arc in TFA pointless, Han evolved through the series by all accounts Finn does not he just regresses between movies and takes the same journey over and over again. He also shot at Vader in Empire. Not that anyone - Boyega included - is really complaining Finn didn't get enough showdowns with the bad guy. The original Episode 9 would have an interesting role for him, one where his stormtrooper experience actually paid off in the narrative. Too bad.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Sept 3, 2020 9:18:07 GMT
The guy's an idiot with this retrospective complaining to fit his current agenda.
We know that he has a problem with losing scripts but does he also struggle to read them in the first place?! If he was genuine in his belief that a black actor should not be in a movie unless they have a part equal in standing to any white actor's, then the bit in script where it read:-
"Finn pushes aside the other animals to make space at the water trough to drink"
really should have been his point to go "thanks but no thanks, I don't want to be a part of this"! He read that, he read the rest of the script - so it was no surprise to HIM that Finn wasn't the Jedi, as per the marketing. If he didn't like it and genuinely believed the part would be insulting to take as black actor, then he should have said no there and then.
It's exactly the same as why I never really got onboard with Mark Hamill moping about TFA / TLJ. You read you weren't in it until the final 10 seconds! You read the space cow breast milking scene in the script!
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Post by Vits on Sept 3, 2020 9:46:13 GMT
He was part of the main trio of protagonists. Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Why didn't the virtue signaling Karens at Disney keep Finn prominent on the China Force Awakens poster? This was a missed opportunity to lecture that country about diversity! Do they not actually care? Ummm... How, exactly? You can't force people from other countries to change their marketing, even if it's from the same company. Hell, they removed a lesbian kiss from the actual movie. How do you stop that? what a whiner , he got paid Translation: "Employees shouldn't speak up about their dissatisfaction with the workplace as long as they get their salary, because they're inferior human beings." he isn't exactly putting in great work elsewhere. Pacific Rim uprising , lol I imagine that being in a franchise like this hasn't given him enough free time to be in more projects. Not to mention that you won't get cast if you don't prove you have talent, and you can't prove you have talent if the script doesn't give you the opportunity, which is what John is talking about now.
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Post by Vits on Sept 3, 2020 9:49:55 GMT
If he was genuine in his belief that a black actor should not be in a movie unless they have a part equal in standing to any white actor's, then the bit in script where it read:- "Finn pushes aside the other animals to make space at the water trough to drink" really should have been his point to go "thanks but no thanks, I don't want to be a part of this"! He read that, he read the rest of the script - so it was no surprise to HIM that Finn wasn't the Jedi, as per the marketing. If he didn't like it and genuinely believed the part would be insulting to take as black actor, then he should have said no there and then. It's exactly the same as why I never really got onboard with Mark Hamill moping about TFA / TLJ. You read you weren't in it until the final 10 seconds! You read the space cow breast milking scene in the script! Actors are told to sign a contract to appear in 3 movies, even before the scripts for the sequels have been finished. By the time John and Mark read everything you pointed out, they were legally obliged to film it. Also, John didn't say he wanted Finn to be the protagonist. He thought the character would have as much importance as Han or Leia had in the O.T. despite it being Luke's story. And why wouldn't he. The entire beginning of THE FORCE AWAKENS was shown from his point of view.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 3, 2020 9:51:48 GMT
He's not wrong. Hell his character was far more interesting than Rey. But I guess Disney was scared that a Star Wars film wouldn't be successful without a White lead.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Sept 3, 2020 10:49:59 GMT
If he was genuine in his belief that a black actor should not be in a movie unless they have a part equal in standing to any white actor's, then the bit in script where it read:- "Finn pushes aside the other animals to make space at the water trough to drink" really should have been his point to go "thanks but no thanks, I don't want to be a part of this"! He read that, he read the rest of the script - so it was no surprise to HIM that Finn wasn't the Jedi, as per the marketing. If he didn't like it and genuinely believed the part would be insulting to take as black actor, then he should have said no there and then. It's exactly the same as why I never really got onboard with Mark Hamill moping about TFA / TLJ. You read you weren't in it until the final 10 seconds! You read the space cow breast milking scene in the script! Actors are told to sign a contract to appear in 3 movies, even before the scripts for the sequels have been finished. By the time John and Mark read everything you pointed out, they were legally obliged to film it. Also, John didn't say he wanted Finn to be the protagonist. He thought the character would have as much importance as Han or Leia had in the O.T. despite it being Luke's story. And why wouldn't he. The entire beginning of THE FORCE AWAKENS was shown from his point of view. It doesn't matter how the beginning of TFA was shown! That's our thing to pick up on as the audience if we didn't like how it panned out for Finn, not John Boyega's - like I said, he's read the whole script, he knows exactly how it's going to turn out for Finn. And at the time he was more than happy:- www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-force-awakens-script-826738"When I read the script I cried... Finn is dope ... His story is so epic. It's a story that's never been seen before, but it also mirrors the stories of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. And he's quirky and charismatic and funny. For me, he was the best character in the script." I've talked about that picture contract thing re Hamill on other threads on here before but in short I still believe the massive hand he had - especially by the time of TLJ - meant that if he really believed so strongly about the character he could have held out. What could Disney have done - sued Mark Hamill for his personal wealth and be stuck with a middle film in a trilogy it couldn't move forward with?
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Post by Vits on Sept 3, 2020 11:26:19 GMT
It doesn't matter how the beginning of TFA was shown! That's our thing to pick up on as the audience if we didn't like how it panned out for Finn, not John Boyega's - like I said, he's read the whole script, he knows exactly how it's going to turn out for Finn. And at the time he was more than happy:- www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-force-awakens-script-826738"When I read the script I cried... Finn is dope ... His story is so epic. It's a story that's never been seen before, but it also mirrors the stories of Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. And he's quirky and charismatic and funny. For me, he was the best character in the script." No, I meant that he was contractually obligated when he read the scripts for EPISODES VIII & IX, so if he didn't like them, he couldn't do anything about it.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Sept 3, 2020 12:45:09 GMT
Yeah, maybe, who knows - however he'd have to have a pretty poor agent to have him contractually obligate himself to anything before seeing the initial script without having some kind of get-out clause. I mean, can a studio really get an actor to blindly sign up for anything without some kind of cover in the event that the project would cause personal humiliation? And, even if they could, in some ways he would have had more power than Hamill - yes, he hadn't filmed anything at that point but a black lead in Disney's new multi billion Star Wars enterprise threatens to walk with complaints about racist character treatment, would they be happy to let that fly with the threat of suing Boyega for his few bucks? I wouldn't have thought so...
That aside, the link and quotes I provide show exactly how he felt about things at the time. He would have been under no obligation re saying all that. It's absolutely absurd to consider he read TFA script yet years later complains his character wasn't treated like say Daisy Ridley. All the information was there from the start.
What wasn't there from the start was the online post TFA's release criticism of the character's act for him to realign himself with. Something he shouldn't have needed if he wasn't happy just swallowing the big paycheck / career boost at the time...
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 3, 2020 13:32:00 GMT
The guy's an idiot with this retrospective complaining to fit his current agenda. We know that he has a problem with losing scripts but does he also struggle to read them in the first place?! If he was genuine in his belief that a black actor should not be in a movie unless they have a part equal in standing to any white actor's, then the bit in script where it read:- "Finn pushes aside the other animals to make space at the water trough to drink" really should have been his point to go "thanks but no thanks, I don't want to be a part of this"! He read that, he read the rest of the script - so it was no surprise to HIM that Finn wasn't the Jedi, as per the marketing. If he didn't like it and genuinely believed the part would be insulting to take as black actor, then he should have said no there and then. It's exactly the same as why I never really got onboard with Mark Hamill moping about TFA / TLJ. You read you weren't in it until the final 10 seconds! You read the space cow breast milking scene in the script! When did he say that black actors must have parts in equal standing to white actors? He said that Disney shouldn’t have made Finn out to be more important than he actually was.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Sept 3, 2020 13:44:13 GMT
The guy's an idiot with this retrospective complaining to fit his current agenda. We know that he has a problem with losing scripts but does he also struggle to read them in the first place?! If he was genuine in his belief that a black actor should not be in a movie unless they have a part equal in standing to any white actor's, then the bit in script where it read:- "Finn pushes aside the other animals to make space at the water trough to drink" really should have been his point to go "thanks but no thanks, I don't want to be a part of this"! He read that, he read the rest of the script - so it was no surprise to HIM that Finn wasn't the Jedi, as per the marketing. If he didn't like it and genuinely believed the part would be insulting to take as black actor, then he should have said no there and then. It's exactly the same as why I never really got onboard with Mark Hamill moping about TFA / TLJ. You read you weren't in it until the final 10 seconds! You read the space cow breast milking scene in the script! When did he say that black actors must have parts in equal standing to white actors? He said that Disney shouldn’t have made Finn out to be more important than he actually was. Finn was only made out like that in the marketing for TFA. Never in the film itself. Since he'd read the actual script, he had no reason to have those high expectations. Plus, he lead the spacehorse charge, yo! That's hardcore!
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 3, 2020 14:06:39 GMT
When did he say that black actors must have parts in equal standing to white actors? He said that Disney shouldn’t have made Finn out to be more important than he actually was. Finn was only made out like that in the marketing for TFA. Never in the film itself. Since he'd read the actual script, he had no reason to have those high expectations. Plus, he lead the spacehorse charge, yo! That's hardcore! I’m pretty sure part of his grievance is with how Disney was dishonest to their audience, rather than to him. Besides, even outside of the marketing, Finn was more important in TFA than he was in the rest of the trilogy.
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Post by Vits on Sept 3, 2020 14:13:31 GMT
Yeah, maybe, who knows - however he'd have to have a pretty poor agent to have him contractually obligate himself to anything before seeing the initial script without having some kind of get-out clause. I mean, can a studio really get an actor to blindly sign up for anything without some kind of cover in the event that the project would cause personal humiliation? And, even if they could, in some ways he would have had more power than Hamill - yes, he hadn't filmed anything at that point but a black lead in Disney's new multi billion Star Wars enterprise threatens to walk with complaints about racist character treatment, would they be happy to let that fly with the threat of suing Boyega for his few bucks? Again: He liked the script for THE FORCE AWAKENS and he signed a contract for all 3 movies, before the scripts for the sequels had even been written. While it would be unfair to say studios don't care about actors at all, these contracts have clauses like that because studios do what's more convenient for them. And maybe Disney thought that people wouldn't pay much attention to a non-famous actor (I know John was in ATTACK THE BLOCK, but he wasn't a megastar), especially without evidence. I mean, we're all discussing this subject based on what we saw on the screen. And of course a huge company wouldn't be afraid of a lawsuit like that: "Oh, he's not a celebrity, so he probably can't afford a lawyer as good as ours. And even if he wins, we'll only lose a fraction of our fortune." Finn was only made out like that in the marketing for TFA. Never in the film itself. He was the focus of the entire beginning of the movie. He joined forces with the protagonist before she even met any villain and they went on a mission together, with hints of a romance.
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Post by Jan El Señor on Sept 3, 2020 14:42:29 GMT
Finn was only made out like that in the marketing for TFA. Never in the film itself. Since he'd read the actual script, he had no reason to have those high expectations. Plus, he lead the spacehorse charge, yo! That's hardcore! I’m pretty sure part of his grievance is with how Disney was dishonest to their audience, rather than to him. Besides, even outside of the marketing, Finn was more important in TFA than he was in the rest of the trilogy. At the end of the day, I'd say all the actors in the sequels have legitimate reasons to be upset about the way their characters were handled. So I'm hesitant to go with his claim that he was sidelined because of racism.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 3, 2020 15:03:00 GMT
I’m pretty sure part of his grievance is with how Disney was dishonest to their audience, rather than to him. Besides, even outside of the marketing, Finn was more important in TFA than he was in the rest of the trilogy. At the end of the day, I'd say all the actors in the sequels have legitimate reasons to be upset about the way their characters were handled. So I'm hesitant to go with his claim that he was sidelined because of racism. I don’t necessarily think he was sidelined because of racism, but he certainly was sidelined.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Sept 3, 2020 15:16:40 GMT
At the end of the day, I'd say all the actors in the sequels have legitimate reasons to be upset about the way their characters were handled. So I'm hesitant to go with his claim that he was sidelined because of racism. I don’t necessarily think he was sidelined because of racism, but he certainly was sidelined. I think the only one who can be somewhat satisfied with their character throughout the trilogy is Adam Driver. And, coincidentally, he had less screentime in ROS than Boyega.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Sept 3, 2020 15:46:42 GMT
The guy's an idiot with this retrospective complaining to fit his current agenda. We know that he has a problem with losing scripts but does he also struggle to read them in the first place?! If he was genuine in his belief that a black actor should not be in a movie unless they have a part equal in standing to any white actor's, then the bit in script where it read:- "Finn pushes aside the other animals to make space at the water trough to drink" really should have been his point to go "thanks but no thanks, I don't want to be a part of this"! He read that, he read the rest of the script - so it was no surprise to HIM that Finn wasn't the Jedi, as per the marketing. If he didn't like it and genuinely believed the part would be insulting to take as black actor, then he should have said no there and then. It's exactly the same as why I never really got onboard with Mark Hamill moping about TFA / TLJ. You read you weren't in it until the final 10 seconds! You read the space cow breast milking scene in the script! When did he say that black actors must have parts in equal standing to white actors? He said that Disney shouldn’t have made Finn out to be more important than he actually was. Re-read the original post. He's not just talking about marketing. He talks about the nuances of how the actor's characters were handled, putting himself alongside Kelly Marie Tran.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Sept 3, 2020 15:57:52 GMT
Actually the worst thing in all this is to consider John Boyega's comments not in terms of going back to TFA but to TLJ.
There's absolutely no excuse at that point - there was plenty of internet coverage of how Finn was essentially the Jar Jar Binks / the joke of the TFA and it was disgraceful treatment of the first lead black Star Wars character. We talked about it at length back on the old imdb TFA board.
He clearly doesn't live in away from online stuff in any kind of a bubble, so he'd have been more than aware of what was being said across the internet. He then gets TLJ script and the very first thing he reads is:-
"Finn comes running in to the room - water tubes flailing wildly around him - and slips over on the high polished surface, crashing on his ass, much to the amusement of everyone assembled in the room watching him".
And you could go on and on with that script as well. At ANY point he could have said - No, this is totally unacceptable and humiliating to portray a black hero in this way. I'm not going to do it. And again, what's Disney going to do? Risk losing one of the leads and facing a court case wherein they'd be labelled as being racist? No way...
Trouble is his high morals simply did not exist then.
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