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Post by movieliker on Sept 4, 2020 18:08:46 GMT
To me it's undoubtedly the writing.
If you have good writing, and everything else is just okay, the movie can be interesting.
(When I say writing, I mean plot and dialogue.)
Then maybe the production values --- bad camera work, bad editing, bad sound, bad music, etc.
The thing that seems to affect the entertainment value of a movie the least is the acting. Sure terrible acting would stand out like a sore thumb. But good writing, good production values and average acting to me would go farther than any other combination (short of great everything).
How does one tell if the acting is bad, and it's not just bad dialogue? The actors have to read their lines.
Most of the time when a movie is not good, to me it's bad writing.
What do you think?
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 4, 2020 18:11:53 GMT
Nah, from my understanding scripts go through changes all the time. I've heard many complaints from Hollywood screenwriters about how their works often get butchered. Film is a visual medium, so I would make the argument that the director and editor can be the biggest potential killer of a movie.
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Post by movielover on Sept 4, 2020 18:13:59 GMT
Poor direction. To me, the director is the most important person in filmmaking, even more than the screenwriter or actors.
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Post by movieliker on Sept 4, 2020 18:21:40 GMT
Nah, from my understanding scripts go through changes all the time. I've heard many complaints from Hollywood screenwriters about how their works often get butchered. Film is a visual argument, so I would make the argument that the director and editor can be the biggest potential killer of a movie. I could see others butchering the writing. But regardless of who responsible, it's still the writing.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 4, 2020 18:26:10 GMT
Nah, from my understanding scripts go through changes all the time. I've heard many complaints from Hollywood screenwriters about how their works often get butchered. Film is a visual argument, so I would make the argument that the director and editor can be the biggest potential killer of a movie. I could see others butchering the writing. But regardless of who responsible, it's still the writing. Yeah but even then directors and actors don't always follow the script 100%. A weak script can be remedied with the right director and actors. Remember this scene from the Godfather? It wasn't actually in the script (the actor playing Luca was so nervous about acting with Brando that he messed up his lines), but Coppolla liked it so much he left it in:
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Post by movieliker on Sept 4, 2020 18:27:22 GMT
I could see others butchering the writing. But regardless of who responsible, it's still the writing. Yeah but even then directors and actors don't always follow the script 100%. Remember this scene from the Godfather? It wasn't actually in the script (the actor playing Lucca was so nervous about acting with Brando that he messed up his line), but Coppolla liked it so much he left it in: That sounds more like an exception, than the rule.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 4, 2020 18:35:44 GMT
I could see others butchering the writing. But regardless of who responsible, it's still the writing. Yeah but even then directors and actors don't always follow the script 100%. A weak script can be remedied with the right director and actors. Remember this scene from the Godfather? It wasn't actually in the script (the actor playing Luca was so nervous about acting with Brando that he messed up his lines), but Coppolla liked it so much he left it in: Coppola left the cat that Brando was playing with in the opening scene. Fantastic touch, the big bad Mafioso playing with a kitty cat. It never get enough love for a great opening scene, odd for a movie of that magnitude. The dark room, Bonasera's nervous speech, Brando playing with the cat.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 4, 2020 19:10:58 GMT
In this order.
Bad directing. Bad acting. Bad writing. Bad cinematography.
Of course these can vary based on how bad. I'll take mediocre acting over terrible writing, but I'll take good acting over mediocre writing.
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Post by politicidal on Sept 4, 2020 19:26:13 GMT
Bad directors. If they can’t make all the different pieces work in sync, it’s just a shapeless mess.
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Post by Vits on Sept 4, 2020 19:26:42 GMT
A movie is a building and the script is the foundation. If you remove that piece, everything falls apart. How does one tell if the acting is bad, and it's not just bad dialogue? The actors have to read their lines. If they break the illusion and you don't see characters but rather actors playing the characters.
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Post by movieliker on Sept 4, 2020 21:37:02 GMT
I think it's the same thing with TV shows. Good writing (plot and dialogue) is the most important thing determining entertainment value.
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Post by theravenking on Sept 4, 2020 22:11:16 GMT
I would say it might depend on the genre.
Horror is very much a director's genre. Few horror movies have great scripts, but great cinematography, editing, set-design, music, sound effects and general direction can elevate an average plot into something truly unnerving.
With comedy it's a combination of good writing and the actor's talent for good comic timing. I would argue in comedy the stars and the script are more important than the director.
With a murder mystery you really need a good script, in a whodunit everything needs to add up in the end.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 4, 2020 22:57:47 GMT
I think it's the same thing with TV shows. Good writing (plot and dialogue) is the most important thing determining entertainment value. The acting in Lost, Game of Thrones, Dexter was good from beginning to end. But the writing, directing and the overall course of the show pulled them all down. Much more likely to happen in a TV series than a movie.
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Post by movieliker on Sept 4, 2020 23:16:35 GMT
Poor direction. To me, the director is the most important person in filmmaking, even more than the screenwriter or actors. When you look at all the bad movies you've seen, more suffered from bad writing (plot, dialogue)? Or more suffered from bad direction?
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Post by movieliker on Sept 4, 2020 23:18:11 GMT
I could see others butchering the writing. But regardless of who responsible, it's still the writing. Yeah but even then directors and actors don't always follow the script 100%. A weak script can be remedied with the right director and actors. Remember this scene from the Godfather? It wasn't actually in the script (the actor playing Luca was so nervous about acting with Brando that he messed up his lines), but Coppolla liked it so much he left it in: Certainly there are exceptions. But I still think the number one reason movies suck is bad writing (plot, dialogue).
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Post by movieliker on Sept 4, 2020 23:20:10 GMT
In this order. Bad directing. Bad acting. Bad writing. Bad cinematography. Of course these can vary based on how bad. I'll take mediocre acting over terrible writing, but I'll take good acting over mediocre writing. Certainly there are examples of all. But I still think bad writing (plot, dialogue) is the number one cause of bad movies.
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Post by movielover on Sept 4, 2020 23:25:45 GMT
Poor direction. To me, the director is the most important person in filmmaking, even more than the screenwriter or actors. When you look at all the bad movies you've seen, more suffered from bad writing (plot, dialogue)? Or more suffered from bad direction? Bad direction.
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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 4, 2020 23:26:05 GMT
A bad story is number one, but I would say other factors that can kill a movie are:
Bad casting--if you don't think the actor is right for the role, or not interesting to watch, doesn't matter how good the writing is Bad score--can be really distracting Bad sound--sound is actually more important than great picture quality IMO. Bad editing--bad pacing etc
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 4, 2020 23:29:01 GMT
In this order. Bad directing. Bad acting. Bad writing. Bad cinematography. Of course these can vary based on how bad. I'll take mediocre acting over terrible writing, but I'll take good acting over mediocre writing. Certainly there are examples of all. But I still think bad writing (plot, dialogue) is the number one cause of bad movies. I'd say bad directing is the number one cause, because good directing can mask bad writing. Bad directing can only ruin good writing. Imagine Ed Wood directing the script for The Godfather for example or Michael Bay directing citizen Kane.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Sept 4, 2020 23:29:39 GMT
A bad story is number one, but I would say other factors that can kill a movie are: Bad casting--if you don't think the actor is right for the role, or not interesting to watch, doesn't matter how good the writing is Bad score--can be really distracting Bad sound--sound is actually more important than great picture quality IMO. Bad editing--bad pacing etc Pacing can be a killer. Can keep a good movie from being a great movie. IMHO, the wedding scene from The Deer Hunter is overlong and pulls a potentially great movie down to good. I kept saying "get on with it, get on with it". That and the epic error of NOT filming the hunting scenes in the area where the movie takes place.
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