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Post by Nora on Sept 10, 2020 23:24:30 GMT
I don't want to compare the two in quality of the source material and filmmaking, since Scorsese's masterful adaptation of an intellectually stimulating novel by Kazantzakis is a truly unique masterpiece, BUT, i want to compare it in the outrage it causes.
Have you seen Cuties/ Mignonnes on Netflix? The outrage is about the movie showing 11 year old girls dancing provocatively and twerking. Which they do in the movie, yes, thats true. But the movie is about so much more and the scenes (2 to be precise) where the girls do dress up sexy and twerk and act overly sexualized on camera are in the movie for a reason, and without these scenes the impact would hardly be the way it is.
It doesn't show anything pornographic, there is no nudity beyond tank tops and shorts, plus the movie CLEARLY is AGAINST the sexualization of children. How can anyone interpret it otherwise is beyond me. I think it just poked in the sore spot of those who are not willing to think about it deeper once disturbed by something, but that looking back once the craze dies down people will see it was a valuable contribution to cinematography. The repulsive moments were there for a reason and were supposed to make you feel repulsed/cringe (if you are not a deviant I would say) and then it was supposed to make you go talk to your kids if you have any, and be more mindful of what we produce and and support in both media and technology for our children to consume. But it was also about so much more than that. The clash of cultures, the coming of age, the teenage rebellion, the seldom portrayed female violence, the bond between mother and daughter etc etc. But no part of it felt cheap or unsubstantiated. I really hope the director withstands the pressure and doesn't end up apologizing for it.
The trailer is somewhat misleading. but trust me, this movie is good.
Anybody has seen it? What did you think?
8/10 from me. It was beautifully shot, very powerful, and so soulful and touching. Made me cry a lot.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Sept 10, 2020 23:40:14 GMT
People get outraged over the stupidest of things these days. I’m not surprised to find out it’s against the sexualization of children. Since you gave it an 8/10 I might watch it.
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Post by darkpast on Sept 11, 2020 4:28:17 GMT
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Post by Winter_King on Sept 11, 2020 9:13:26 GMT
Haven't seen it. It doesn't look interesting.
Last Temptation of Christ is great. Probably my favorite film about Jesus.
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Post by SuperDevilDoctor on Sept 11, 2020 12:09:46 GMT
When THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST premiered on HBO, the local cable TV company in my small Tennessee town -- which had a complete monopoly -- blacked out the screen to its paying customers. (I was one of them.)
IIRC, the owner of the company had stated, "Nobody should be allowed to see that movie."
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Post by Nora on Sept 11, 2020 14:32:52 GMT
When THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST premiered on HBO, the local cable TV company in my small Tennessee town -- which had a complete monopoly -- blacked out the screen to its paying customers. (I was one of them.) IIRC, the owner of the company had stated, "Nobody should be allowed to see that movie." very similar things are people saying now...
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Post by Nora on Sept 11, 2020 14:40:33 GMT
Haven't seen it. It doesn't look interesting. Last Temptation of Christ is great. Probably my favorite film about Jesus. mine too. Btw cuties didnt look interesting to me too. Even half an hour in I was like “hmm,.. lets see”. but it really does develop into a beautiful intricate and powerful story. maybe more for women than men, but still.
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Post by Nora on Sept 11, 2020 14:41:26 GMT
last time i have seen a movie score so diff by critics and audiance is with Uncut Gems. And I also Loved that movie
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Post by theravenking on Sept 11, 2020 14:59:43 GMT
We did watch The Last Temptation Of Christ in religion class at school in the late 90's. At that time I wasn't aware that it had caused such a stir in the US.
I haven't seen Cuties and I've no idea what "twerking" means, I'm unfamiliar with this expression. But from what I could gather people who boycotted/ protested the movie seem to have a problem with Netflix's general politics, their support of wokeness and diversity and they seemed to have just been waiting for something like this, so they would have an opportunity to attack the company. Many of these haters admit that they have only seen the trailer, so the outrage seems a bit phony.
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Post by Nora on Sept 11, 2020 15:35:57 GMT
We did watch The Last Temptation Of Christ in religion class at school in the late 90's. At that time I wasn't aware that it had caused such a stir in the US. I haven't seen Cuties and I've no idea what "twerking" means, I'm unfamiliar with this expression. But from what I could gather people who boycotted/ protested the movie seem to have a problem with Netflix's general politics, their support of wokeness and diversity and they seemed to have just been waiting for something like this, so they would have an opportunity to attack the company. Many of these haters admit that they have only seen the trailer, so the outrage seems a bit phony. The movie is not woke that way, its not empowering the kids to do those things, its actually a strong cautionary tale against it. i really dont get how it could have been so misunderstood. twerking is a seductive dancing where you shake your ass - and someone else might be either watching from close or slapping it etc. Think Nicky Minaj, Miley Cyrus etc. It is inappropriate behavior in public for 11 year olds, yes. Yes, the outrage does seem phony from all the people that either saw the trailer only, or fast forwarded through the movie to the problematic scenes. The movie tells a beautifully crafted difficult and personal story, and perfectly highlights the dangers and temptations children are under these days and how not enough / the wrong kind of parental attention can contribute to them going down the wrong path.
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bd74
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Post by bd74 on Sept 11, 2020 16:53:02 GMT
I don't think it's comparable, as there was no internet back when The Last Temptation of Christ was released. So, the controversy surrounding that movie was all over the print media and the television media. In fact, I think the movie was even prevented from being shown in some theaters. In the case of Cuties however, I haven't heard about the controversy on any place other than on social media. I watched the tv news yesterday and today, and I certainly didn't see any mention of it. The controversy over Last Temptation was much more widespread, whereas the Cuties controversy seems to be more of an internet/social media thing.
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Post by Nora on Sept 11, 2020 18:54:39 GMT
I don't think it's comparable, as there was no internet back when The Last Temptation of Christ was released. So, the controversy surrounding that movie was all over the print media and the television media. In fact, I think the movie was even prevented from being shown in some theaters. In the case of Cuties however, I haven't heard about the controversy on any place other than on social media. I watched the tv news yesterday and today, and I certainly didn't see any mention of it. The controversy over Last Temptation was much more widespread, whereas the Cuties controversy seems to be more of an internet/social media thing. true - so far. lets see where it goes though. i am wondering if netflix will be bullied into pulling it or the director into re-editing it.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 11, 2020 21:16:59 GMT
I have no interest in watching the movie, but if it’s as you describe, then I suppose it would be no worse than something like Taxi Driver. Still, assuming that the movie is how you described it (I’ll take your word for it), then it sounds like Netflix massively dropped the ball with the marketing. The question is, did they intentionally market the film as something it isn’t, in order to get people talking about it (“there’s no such thing as bad publicity”), or were they genuinely too stupid to realize how controversial their marketing was going to be?
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Post by hi224 on Sept 11, 2020 21:37:52 GMT
I don't want to compare the two in quality of the source material and filmmaking, since Scorsese's masterful adaptation of an oldintellectually stimulating novel by Kazantzakis is a truly unique masterpiece, BUT, i want to compare it in the outrage it causes. Have you seen Cuties/ Mignonnes on Netflix? The outrage is about the movie showing 11 year old girls dancing provocatively and twerking. Which they do in the movie, yes, thats true. But the movie is about so much more and the scenes (2 to be precise) where the girls do dress up sexy and twerk and act overly sexualized on camera are in the movie for a reason, and without these scenes the impact would hardly be the way it is. It doesn't show anything pornographic, there is no nudity beyond tank tops and shorts, plus the movie CLEARLY is AGAINST the sexualization of children. How can anyone interpret it otherwise is beyond me. I think it just poked in the sore spot of those who are not willing to think about it deeper once disturbed by something, but that looking back once the craze dies down people will see it was a valuable contribution to cinematography. The repulsive moments were there for a reason and were supposed to make you feel repulsed/cringe (if you are not a deviant I would say) and then it was supposed to make you go talk to your kids if you have any, and be more mindful of what we produce and and support in both media and technology for our children to consume. But it was also about so much more than that. The clash of cultures, the coming of age, the teenage rebellion, the seldom portrayed female violence, the bond between mother and daughter etc etc. But no part of it felt cheap or unsubstantiated. I really hope the director withstands the pressure and doesn't end up apologizing for it. The trailer is somewhat misleading. but trust me, this movie is good. Anybody has seen it? What did you think? 8/10 from me. It was beautifully shot, very powerful, and so soulful and touching. Made me cry a lot. Honestly the only screwup by Netflix is how they advertised it. It's a solid enough movie, although Girlhood was preferable.
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Post by Nora on Sept 11, 2020 21:41:24 GMT
I have no interest in watching the movie, but if it’s as you describe, then I suppose it would be no worse than something like Taxi Driver. Still, assuming that the movie is how you described it (I’ll take your word for it), then it sounds like Netflix massively dropped the ball with the marketing. The question is, did they intentionally market the film as something it isn’t, in order to get people talking about it (“there’s no such thing as bad publicity”), or were they genuinely too stupid to realize how controversial their marketing was going to be? I agree and dont know myself. Would love to know of course, which one it was. The movie is presented as some sort of child dance competition movie of a young girl grappling with her budding sexuality, while in reality, the movie is about a young girl dealing with family problems and wanting to fit in and get recognition of her peers and realizing by observing the world as it is today, that acting sexual is one of the fastest way to get recognition. There is no desire of hers that would be shown, that she is feeling sexual herself toward anyone, its purely driven by her being an immigrant in a new country and not being sure how to fit in or get people to like her and being stuck between two cultures that each tell her very different things about what it is, being a woman. I think it communicates a very powerful msg on what young kids are dealing with these days, where they see Everywhere online, that sexuality and sexual behavior is rewarded, by likes, by money, by admiration, by friends, by connects, by popularity. I don't know if you use social networks, but I am appalled at what some of the kids post there themselves, similarly young, and even more at what some of their parents seem to ok on their behalf. A 10 year old girl with makeup puckering her lips seductively into the camera is just the beginning. The movie shows the end result of this culture, but from my perspective still does it well within acceptable means, as the problematic scenes are only a few minutes of the overall 90 minute runtime and as the main msg of the movie is clearly against condoning such behavior. And in my eyes it is no way its promoting CP or trying to normalize it. The scenes that are uncomfortable/repulsive to watch are meant to be that way, its not a scene that was meant to please the audience. That would be a very different story. It irks me that a lot of the people that complain about it show they have not even seen it.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Sept 12, 2020 5:01:56 GMT
If there's one type of movie I hate, it's moral panic "kids these days" flicks that will wag their finger with one hand and fap with the other. At the forefront of this is Larry Clark, a guy who can slap a tagline like "It's 4 AM... Do you know where your kids are?" on a movie with gratuitous close-ups of labias leaking out of the jean shorts of unconsenting actresses. From your review and looking at footage in a video made by PayMoneyWubby, that's exactly what this is, complete with the crotch closeups. You stress these scenes are a small part of the film, but there is no duration of time that demands you do zoomed in, Male Gaze-y shots of spread eagle 11 year olds to convey a message.
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Post by Nora on Sept 12, 2020 9:56:21 GMT
If there's one type of movie I hate, it's moral panic "kids these days" flicks that will wag their finger with one hand and fap with the other. At the forefront of this is Larry Clark, a guy who can slap a tagline like "It's 4 AM... Do you know where your kids are?" on a movie with gratuitous close-ups of labias leaking out of the jean shorts of unconsenting actresses. From your review and looking at footage in a video made by PayMoneyWubby, that's exactly what this is, complete with the crotch closeups. You stress these scenes are a small part of the film, but there is no duration of time that demands you do zoomed in, Male Gaze-y shots of spread eagle 11 year olds to convey a message. i understand what you are saying but please knoq this story is anything but a “moral panic” kids these days. if anything, moral panic better describes the response to this soulful and deep movie.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Sept 12, 2020 15:36:36 GMT
Based on what I’m hearing about the movie upon looking more into it, it sounds like it may have had good intentions, but that the director dropped the ball big time when it comes to execution. I think they might’ve been better off if they aged the girls up a bit, and had young adult actors to portray them. That way, the movie could still get its message across, without being accused of exploiting actual children.
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Post by Nora on Sept 12, 2020 16:57:50 GMT
Based on what I’m hearing about the movie upon looking more into it, it sounds like it may have had good intentions, but that the director dropped the ball big time when it comes to execution. I think they might’ve been better off if they aged the girls up a bit, and had young adult actors to portray them. That way, the movie could still get its message across, without being accused of exploiting actual children. I was thinking about this a lot. I am convinced the director had best of intention and I am not sure she dropped the ball big time. Hear me out: the movies msg is "look at what our children are facing, look what absent parenting may result in, look how cultures are clashing, look what oppression (of any kind) can result in, look at the tragic role models our kids have/are flooded with, look what they learn about being rewarded for as women by observing culture and popularity mechanics around them." Would the message be As powerful if these were not actual children or if the most repulsive/cringe scenes were not in the movie? I honestly don't think so. having older teenagers who actually have womens bodies and movements do the moves wouldn't look and feel that inappropriate, it would just look like Kiley Jenner/early Ariana/Selena/Cardi B video and I don't think it would hit home so close or be so heartbreaking - which was the point. The society is raging against sexualization children now. Thats a good result. They should be less hypocritical and all those that rage against this movie should also rage and demand cancelling of Leon, Lolita, Taxi Driver, Kick Ass, Salo, Honey Boy and many many other movies that had children in roles that could be seen as inappropriate for them. In case of Leon for example its even worse as the 12 yo girl actively is asking the 50 yo guy to take her virginity and is trying to seduce him and kiss him and talks about having sex with him to others, AND YET the viewer is supposed to take the movie as pure entertainment. Cuties is very different. It's a cautionary tale that should serve as a wake up call. too bad that the society only panic-rages on a very shallow level "cANCle NEdfliX" but doesn't want to open a serious debate about what can be done in respect of very young girls/women taking sexy photos of themselves for likes, making videoclips where they simulate sex barely dressed and present themselves as nothing else as sex symbol and are rewarded with wealth and popularity, and the system of social networks where two things sell the most: Sex and Conflict. So until we look at things in a much broader way and start looking for actual solutions to the toxic environment and offer/reward system, yelling at people that produce movies that highlight this danger is not the things that will solve anything. Also, by doing all this the people are putting extreme stress onto the young girls themselves and probably harming them much more than a movie made in a friendly environment with the presence of a child physiologist and a female director that explained why they are making the movie etc. I was thinking of doing a re-edit of the movie and showing it to some people who have not seen the original or heard about it, and gauge their reaction and see how strong it is, and see if they are as repulsed/agitated, but it would be hard to find such people by now…. I would encourage people to watch the movie in its entirety also before passing judgment. the way its presented on line is very off from what it actually is.
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Post by Nora on Sept 13, 2020 5:16:43 GMT
Film sounds like frivolous preaching and who exactly is this film supposed to reach? Children today are just living in the example of what their parents teach them, set for them and understand themselves, which isn’t much, and live by image of self which is constantly pounded onto them via advertising and social media. They all appear to be a lost cause to me. its not preachy at all. its such a delicately woven and soulful story. Didnt feel preachy one bit. About islam, about youth, about values or femininity. It just felt genuine and genuinely scary. It is not looking down on the kids and it doesnt pass the cautionary msg from an ivory tower. it feels raw and poignant and whatever the opposite of preachy is to me the dictionary says its “tolerant”. hmm you know what felt preachy to me? Ladybird. Or the latest adaptation of the Little Women story. But not this. Also - I remain optimistic and think todays youth can still make it
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