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Post by Skaathar on Sept 20, 2020 1:46:26 GMT
Just finished watching S3 of Westworld and the way the female lead was depicted made me think of how I'd like a Black Widow movie to handle the character.
Cold, professional, badass, almost terminator-like at times, uses her sexuality to spy and infiltrate, uses a lot of cool gadgets and technology, yet still manages to be a very caring and sympathetic character.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 20, 2020 12:27:00 GMT
Many fans want to see Black Widow embrace the archetypal traits associated with the typical "Hollywood" spy. Your list pretty much covers the gamut of those expectations. I'm not against any of it per se (with the notable exception of using her sexuality as a primary part of her tradecraft).
I hope this solo movie will flesh out her motivations beyond what's already been hinted at in the MCU.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 20, 2020 15:36:04 GMT
Many fans want to see Black Widow embrace the archetypal traits associated with the typical "Hollywood" spy. Your list pretty much covers the gamut of those expectations. I'm not against any of it per se (with the notable exception of using her sexuality as a primary part of her tradecraft). I hope this solo movie will flesh out her motivations beyond what's already been hinted at in the MCU. Personally, I want an archetypical female Hollywod spy but fleshed out. I feel like we've never had a movie that handled that well but we've had lots of movies that did it well for the male counterpart. |
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 20, 2020 17:29:37 GMT
Many fans want to see Black Widow embrace the archetypal traits associated with the typical "Hollywood" spy. Your list pretty much covers the gamut of those expectations. I'm not against any of it per se (with the notable exception of using her sexuality as a primary part of her tradecraft). I hope this solo movie will flesh out her motivations beyond what's already been hinted at in the MCU. Personally, I want an archetypical female Hollywod spy but fleshed out. I feel like we've never had a movie that handled that well but we've had lots of movies that did it well for the male counterpart. Fair enough. I think it will be easy enough for the film to portray Black Widow as a "boss" concerning her moves, tactics, and disposition. What's slightly more important to me is the "why" of it all. Why does Nat do what she does? She's not actually a spy unless you're thinking of a spy in the way that James Bond is a superhero spy. Nothing she does is a secret anymore, and everyone knows who she is. She's a soldier and an adventurer who occasionally engages in black ops. Winter Soldier explored her fluid morality and ethics systems. That Black Widow seemed more interested in her own precision. She is concerned with how tough, smart, and effective she can be. She is not the type of operator who is interested in nations or causes. I'd like them to drill down into that aspect of the character.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 22, 2020 23:22:20 GMT
Personally, I want an archetypical female Hollywod spy but fleshed out. I feel like we've never had a movie that handled that well but we've had lots of movies that did it well for the male counterpart. Fair enough. I think it will be easy enough for the film to portray Black Widow as a "boss" concerning her moves, tactics, and disposition. What's slightly more important to me is the "why" of it all. Why does Nat do what she does? She's not actually a spy unless you're thinking of a spy in the way that James Bond is a superhero spy. Nothing she does is a secret anymore, and everyone knows who she is. She's a soldier and an adventurer who occasionally engages in black ops. Winter Soldier explored her fluid morality and ethics systems. That Black Widow seemed more interested in her own precision. She is concerned with how tough, smart, and effective she can be. She is not the type of operator who is interested in nations or causes. I'd like them to drill down into that aspect of the character. I'm not exactly looking for her to be more "badass", as I never felt that she was lacking on that account. What I really want is for the MCU to portray Black Widow as more of a spy. She doesn't feel like a spy, doesn't act like a spy, and hasn't done anything spy-like since she pulled an interview with Loki. She doesn't need her identity to be secret in order to showcase her skills as a spy. She basically feels like a generic action-chick, so I'm hoping this is addressed better in her movie.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 23, 2020 0:36:18 GMT
Fair enough. I think it will be easy enough for the film to portray Black Widow as a "boss" concerning her moves, tactics, and disposition. What's slightly more important to me is the "why" of it all. Why does Nat do what she does? She's not actually a spy unless you're thinking of a spy in the way that James Bond is a superhero spy. Nothing she does is a secret anymore, and everyone knows who she is. She's a soldier and an adventurer who occasionally engages in black ops. Winter Soldier explored her fluid morality and ethics systems. That Black Widow seemed more interested in her own precision. She is concerned with how tough, smart, and effective she can be. She is not the type of operator who is interested in nations or causes. I'd like them to drill down into that aspect of the character. I'm not exactly looking for her to be more "badass", as I never felt that she was lacking on that account. What I really want is for the MCU to portray Black Widow as more of a spy. She doesn't feel like a spy, doesn't act like a spy, and hasn't done anything spy-like since she pulled an interview with Loki. She doesn't need her identity to be secret in order to showcase her skills as a spy. She basically feels like a generic action-chick, so I'm hoping this is addressed better in her movie. What is your definition of "spy?" During her interview with Loki, she supposedly got him to reveal his plans. Whether she actually did this or not is still hotly debated by some fans. Even if you think she did, it really didn't stop Loki's plan from playing out (outside of the Helicarrier not crashing). She used deception to get Loki to reveal his hand, but that doesn't feel overly spy-like to me.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 23, 2020 19:01:31 GMT
I'm not exactly looking for her to be more "badass", as I never felt that she was lacking on that account. What I really want is for the MCU to portray Black Widow as more of a spy. She doesn't feel like a spy, doesn't act like a spy, and hasn't done anything spy-like since she pulled an interview with Loki. She doesn't need her identity to be secret in order to showcase her skills as a spy. She basically feels like a generic action-chick, so I'm hoping this is addressed better in her movie. What is your definition of "spy?" During her interview with Loki, she supposedly got him to reveal his plans. Whether she actually did this or not is still hotly debated by some fans. Even if you think she did, it really didn't stop Loki's plan from playing out (outside of the Helicarrier not crashing). She used deception to get Loki to reveal his hand, but that doesn't feel overly spy-like to me. "Spy" can be defined in many ways, but I'm mostly going with how Black Widow was portrayed in comics, even in animation. She's normally mysterious, with her intentions never quite easy to read. You're never sure if she's friend or foe. Her emotions are usually held behind a controlled mask. This does not mean she's unemotional, it just means she has a firm control on them (more T'Challa and less Nebula). She uses subterfuge, misdirection and manipulation as part of her skillset. Above all, without needing to display any fighting skills, she already feels dangerous and capable. As what you'd expect from someone who's been trained to assassinate at such a young age, there's a certain coldness and hardness to her that should easily be felt or seen. Then of course there's the fact that she's a very skilled fighter and uses both advanced technology and her own womanly charms to get the job done. Some of these boxes MCU's Black Widow ticks, some of them she doesn't. All I'm saying is, I watched S3 of West World and almost all these things were displayed by the lead character. And not shallowly either. It was a well fleshed-out character.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Sept 26, 2020 20:23:02 GMT
What is your definition of "spy?" During her interview with Loki, she supposedly got him to reveal his plans. Whether she actually did this or not is still hotly debated by some fans. Even if you think she did, it really didn't stop Loki's plan from playing out (outside of the Helicarrier not crashing). She used deception to get Loki to reveal his hand, but that doesn't feel overly spy-like to me. "Spy" can be defined in many ways, but I'm mostly going with how Black Widow was portrayed in comics, even in animation. She's normally mysterious, with her intentions never quite easy to read. You're never sure if she's friend or foe. Her emotions are usually held behind a controlled mask. This does not mean she's unemotional, it just means she has a firm control on them (more T'Challa and less Nebula). She uses subterfuge, misdirection and manipulation as part of her skillset. Above all, without needing to display any fighting skills, she already feels dangerous and capable. As what you'd expect from someone who's been trained to assassinate at such a young age, there's a certain coldness and hardness to her that should easily be felt or seen. Then of course there's the fact that she's a very skilled fighter and uses both advanced technology and her own womanly charms to get the job done. Some of these boxes MCU's Black Widow ticks, some of them she doesn't. All I'm saying is, I watched S3 of West World and almost all these things were displayed by the lead character. And not shallowly either. It was a well fleshed-out character. Interesting... I'm really more interested in seeing her interact with the MCU intelligence community more substantially. It would also be nice to see more glimpses of the past that earned her the reputation she's been heavily leaning on in the MCU. What leads her to work for S.H.E.I.L.D.? It's also been hinted that she was some type of enforcer for Fury at some point. I wonder what the relationship is there.
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