|
Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 20, 2020 11:20:57 GMT
The ungodly have two possible responses:
1) It isn't going to happen.
2) It's going to happen but it isn't a bad thing.
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 20, 2020 12:11:46 GMT
Why does a response to monetary issues dictate how godly one is?
|
|
|
Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 20, 2020 12:15:56 GMT
Why does a response to monetary issues dictate how godly one is? More like the other way around. Second of the two choices for you?
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 20, 2020 12:21:18 GMT
Why does a response to monetary issues dictate how godly one is? More like the other way around. Well then: why does how godly you are dictate your views on monetary policy? I haven't really thought about it to be frank, other to note the gradual decline of cash helped along by the virus. Presumably good news for some, bad for others, largely of indifference to many.
|
|
|
Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 20, 2020 12:24:43 GMT
More like the other way around. Well then: why does how godly you are dictate your views on monetary policy? I haven't really thought about it to be frank, other to note the gradually decline of cash. Presusumably good for some, bad for others, of indifference to many. Because it's not godly to take away people's ability to pay for what they need in life, and that is what will happen if a completely cashless monetary system is enforced.
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 20, 2020 12:37:51 GMT
Well then: why does how godly you are dictate your views on monetary policy? I haven't really thought about it to be frank, other to note the gradually decline of cash. Presusumably good for some, bad for others, of indifference to many. Because it's not godly to take away people's ability to pay for what they need in life, and that is what will happen if a completely cashless monetary system is enforced. Who is suggesting an enforced cashless society?
|
|
|
Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 20, 2020 12:47:40 GMT
Because it's not godly to take away people's ability to pay for what they need in life, and that is what will happen if a completely cashless monetary system is enforced. Who is suggesting an enforced cashless society? It isn't being suggested. It's being implemented gradually as time goes by. Any more silly questions?
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 20, 2020 12:54:09 GMT
Who is suggesting an enforced cashless society? It isn't being suggested. It's being implemented gradually as time goes by. Any more silly questions? No questions, only the observation that it is you who are doing the suggesting.
|
|
|
Post by The Herald Erjen on Sept 20, 2020 12:58:03 GMT
It isn't being suggested. It's being implemented gradually as time goes by. Any more silly questions? No questions, only the observation that it is you who are doing the suggesting. So the first choice then? It isn't going to happen? Remember, when it does happen you can always shift to the second choice. The same tack works with mandatory Covid vaccinations too, as you're no doubt aware.
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Sept 20, 2020 13:08:27 GMT
No questions, only the observation that it is you who are doing the suggesting. So the first choice then? It isn't going to happen? If you look back you will see that I said that I hadn't really thought about it enough to have strong opinions. Also you have given a false range of choices. For instance you have not included the possibility that a cashless society will happen and be a bad thing. Thank you for your advice. I doubt though that I will in the event need to be mandated to have vaccinations.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 20, 2020 15:37:17 GMT
We're already a largely cashless society, pretty sure most transaction are done with credit cards, debit cards, online orders, checks, etc. Being a purely cashless society at this point would just require a small push in the right direction. Sweden is already basically a cashless society, only about 1% of transactions there are cash. I personally don't even like carrying cash (don't have to worry about losing my wallet or getting robbed). Also a cashless society would make it harder to do illegal transactions that are typically done with cash (drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.). It would cut down on robberies/muggings (no tangible money to steal). Also a cashless society would probably cut down on disease (money is passed around by lots of people and acquires lots ofgerms because of it). In fact right now a lot of stores refuse to even take cash because of Covid.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 20, 2020 16:09:59 GMT
We're already a largely cashless society, pretty sure most transaction are done with credit cards, debit cards, online orders, checks, etc. Being a purely cashless society at this point would just require a small push in the right direction. I personally don't even like carrying cash (don't have to worry about losing my wallet or getting robbed). Also a cashless society would make it harder to do illegal transactions that are typically done with cash (drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc.). It would cut down on robberies/muggings (no tangible money to steal). Also a cashless society would probably cut down on disease (money is passed around by lots of people and acquires lots ofgerms because of it). In fact right now a lot of stores refuse to even take cash because of Covid. In other words, it allows the government to better monitor and control all our actions. So no, such centralized control of the economy down to a 5 dollar purchase at the market is not a good thing. I don't know if it's the mark of the beast or not. But it's not in the interest of freedom. Seeing how most people have bank accounts, they already can monitor and control our actions (and they already do), so that's a rather moot point.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 20, 2020 16:52:35 GMT
Seeing how most people have bank accounts, they already can monitor and control our actions (and they already do), so that's a rather moot point. Yeah, a bank account and a debit card. That IS THE POINT. Everything is monitored. Everything already is essentially monitored (bank accounts, Facebook, Patriot Act, cameras on every street corner, cell phones that can be tracked by the government). Privacy has been obsolescent for quite some time. I don't understand what point you're trying make.
|
|
|
Post by MCDemuth on Sept 20, 2020 17:17:20 GMT
Being cashless during a natural disaster is going to kill people...
Well, I am not sure how checks would work these days, since so many places don't want to take those as a form of payment, due to frequent check fraud... But...
Everything else on that list requires electricity in order to be used...
None of those other options will help you pay for things, if a hurricane comes through, and destroys the power grid in your neighborhood for several weeks!
Banks, ATMs, Computers, Internet... all that won't be functional, if there is no power to run it all!
Credit Cards? Totally useless hunks of plastic, if there is no way to scan them...
Hell, I don't think most places even have those physical Carbon Paper based credit card slider machines anymore... I think they have ditched those... Because, everything is now 'electronic'.
That's why most emergency response agencies STILL tell the public to have emergency cash on hand, as part of their disaster preparation kits...
A couple weeks in to a major natural disaster, most victims will be very glad to have cash on hand, so they will be able to pay for any food and other supplies that they will need... While those who only have credit cards will be begging for handouts.
|
|
|
Post by MCDemuth on Sept 20, 2020 17:57:14 GMT
...if a hurricane comes through, and destroys the power grid in your neighborhood for several weeks! And... just in case some posters here want to try to 'debunk' this possibility... This is NOT a strawman argument: No electricity for Everyone and Everything for WEEKS... How long do all your mobile/backup batteries work, before they need to be recharged?Just think about that for a while.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 20, 2020 18:11:11 GMT
Everything already is essentially monitored (bank accounts, Facebook, Patriot Act, cameras on every street corner, cell phones that can be tracked by the government). Privacy has been obsolescent for quite some time. I don't understand what point you're trying make. I wasn't putting any time future past or present when this authoritarian fact became a reality. It's been an ongoing process for the past 50 years or so. I'm merely saying it is and will spell a death knell to personal freedom. We have a relatively benevolent democratic government. I shudder to think what would happen if that changes.
Remember also there are a few people now who can live off the grid by using cash only. When cash is gone that will be impossible.
"I'm merely saying it is and will spell a death knell to personal freedom." So you're conceding this would merely be the final nail in the coffin? OK, I don't really disagree with you on that. As for "personal freed", this is a very tricky one. We give up "freedoms" all the time in exchange for security and new freedoms. For instance I don't think people should have the "freedom" to drive 150 miles on the freeway while drunk. I don't think hardware stores should have the "freedom" to sell led paint. I don't think business owners should have the "freedom" to refuse service to blacks/minoroties, they would essentially be imposing on their freedom. With something like a cashless society, yes you would arguably be getting rid of certain freedoms, but in exchange have new securities (you don't have to worry about getting robbed, losing your cash, illegal transactions would go down, there would be less disease).
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 20, 2020 18:15:48 GMT
Being cashless during a natural disaster is going to kill people... Well, I am not sure how checks would work these days, since so many places don't want to take those as a form of payment, due to frequent check fraud... But... Everything else on that list requires electricity in order to be used... None of those other options will help you pay for things, if a hurricane comes through, and destroys the power grid in your neighborhood for several weeks! Banks, ATMs, Computers, Internet... all that won't be functional, if there is no power to run it all! Credit Cards? Totally useless hunks of plastic, if there is no way to scan them... Hell, I don't think most places even have those physical Carbon Paper based credit card slider machines anymore... I think they have ditched those... Because, everything is now 'electronic'. That's why most emergency response agencies STILL tell the public to have emergency cash on hand, as part of their disaster preparation kits... A couple weeks in to a major natural disaster, most victims will be very glad to have cash on hand, so they will be able to pay for any food and other supplies that they will need... While those who only have credit cards will be begging for handouts. OK so this is actually a decent argument, but thanks to cellphones, pretty much any business can still do card transactions with credit card apps that are now available on any cell phone. Also laws requiring backup power and infrastructure rebuilding can help remedy the potential damage from power outages. Also this actually a good argument for more and more places to have solar panels, that way they still have their own power source if an outage went out (California has actually made it mandatory for all new buildings/homes to have solar panels)
|
|
|
Post by MCDemuth on Sept 20, 2020 18:46:58 GMT
OK so this is actually a decent argument, but thanks to cellphones, pretty much any business can still do transactions with credit card apps that are now available on any cell phone. Also backup power and infrastructure rebuilding can remedy potential power outages. How? I don't think some of you understand the scope of the problem... I said: That includes Banks, Gas Stations, WIFI services, Cell Phone towers, ETC... all over the city that you live in. Your entire city is completely shut down, because there is no power to run anything within miles of where you live... Back Up Power? Yeah, maybe for a day or two... But WEEKS? Nope. Batteries don't last that long. And generators need gasoline to keep running... but most Gas Pumps these days are electrically powered. Sure, you could still get some gasoline from sources other than gas stations, but it wouldn't be easy to obtain, and it wouldn't last long, before you needed more... Even Hospitals and Police Stations would have major issues trying to get gasoline to keep their generators going... And they would have priority over most businesses including the ones that provide you with your internet services. Even if YOUR 'Smart Phone' has power and is capable of working, it only has a limited range... Can it communicate with the nearest functioning powered communications 'Tower' which could be over a hundred miles away? " Can You Hear Me Now?" Probably Not. Especially if the one your are calling, can't answer the phone.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 20, 2020 18:54:54 GMT
OK so this is actually a decent argument, but thanks to cellphones, pretty much any business can still do transactions with credit card apps that are now available on any cell phone. Also backup power and infrastructure rebuilding can remedy potential power outages. How? I don't think some of you understand the scope of the problem... I said: That includes Banks, Gas Stations, WIFI services, Cell Phone towers, ETC... all over the city that you live in. Your entire city is completely shut down, because there is no power to run anything within miles of where you live... Back Up Power? Yeah, maybe for a day or two... But WEEKS? Nope. Batteries don't last that long. And generators need gasoline to keep running... but most Gas Pumps these days are electrically powered. Sure, you could still get some gasoline from sources other than gas stations, but it wouldn't be easy to obtain, and it wouldn't last long, before you needed more... Even Hospitals and Police Stations would have major issues trying to get gasoline to keep their generators going... And they would have priority over most businesses including the ones that provide you with your internet services. Even if YOUR 'Smart Phone' has power and is capable of working, it only has a limited range... Can it communicate with the nearest functioning powered communications 'Tower' which could be over a hundred miles away? " Can You Hear Me Now?" Probably Not. Especially if the one your are calling, can't answer the phone. "Yeah, maybe for a day or two... But WEEKS?" What are you basing that on? I'm pretty sure it would last longer than few days. There are hermits that literally live their entire lives in some shack in the woods, often using their own power source from generators. Those obviously last longer than a few days. "And generators need gasoline to keep running" Again, this is a good argument for getting away from fossil fuels and more towards solar energy "Even if YOUR 'Smart Phone' has power and is capable of working, it only has a limited range... Can it communicate with the nearest functioning powered communications 'Tower' which could be over a hundred miles away? " This is actually a good argument against the monopolistic cell phone companies don't always provide the best infrastructure for their services. Laws requiring certain infrastructure standards could remedy this. Besides, using only cash without some sort of electronic transaction machine would be a nightmare, having to manually write down every single cash transaction and keep track of it, and of course you would now be more vulnerable to theft/robberies (no point in robbing a business that does little cash transactions) particularly during power outages when cops can't respond as quickly...
|
|
|
Post by MCDemuth on Sept 20, 2020 19:22:59 GMT
|
|