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Post by rizdek on Sept 22, 2020 10:31:04 GMT
If, as many theists would lead me to believe, it is just plain obvious that life could NOT...absolutely NOT have arisen naturally without divine intervention, or some sort of supernatural intelligent design, why is agonizing over how there could be life on Venus? Granted, they don't KNOW there is life on Venus, but IF there is...why wonder?
Have any brave Christian or Muslim scientists come out and said something like, 'if there is life on Venus, it's because God put it there...end of story!'?
But even more puzzling is...why don't theists talk up life elsewhere more optimistically. IF God designed and created life from the material HE himself created, life COULD exist anywhere...on ice planets, on rocky asteroids, on the surface of the sun, the the dark reaches of space. Because if you get to make the rules of HOW matter/energy behaves and what life required to continue, it is,...or should be child's play to make it so that life COULD be anywhere.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Sept 23, 2020 14:29:16 GMT
It must have been divine intervention. It is not possible for any of the following diseases to arise naturally:
• Black death of 1347 (100+ million deaths)
• Smallpox (50+ M)
• Spanish Flu (50 M)
• HIV/AIDS (25 M)
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Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 23, 2020 14:32:05 GMT
It must have been divine intervention. It is not possible for any of the following diseases to arise naturally: • Black death of 1347 (100+ million deaths) • Smallpox (50+ M) • Spanish Flu (50 M) • HIV/AIDS (25 M) Come on, everyone knows AIDS was God's wrath against homosexuals (even though it still killed a bunch of straight people)
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Post by Rodney Farber on Sept 24, 2020 0:18:20 GMT
It must have been divine intervention. It is not possible for any of the following diseases to arise naturally: • Black death of 1347 (100+ million deaths) • Smallpox (50+ M) • Spanish Flu (50 M) • HIV/AIDS (25 M) Come on, everyone knows AIDS was God's wrath against homosexuals (even though it still killed a bunch of straight people) Just so I understand this: Jehovah, the all-seeing and infinitely-forward-looking creator of everything, created homosexuals. Then the perfect Yahweh who never makes mistakes said, "oops", and decided to "correct" his anomaly with Aids?
I wonder what "oops" he was correcting with the Black Plague or the Great Flood?
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Post by permutojoe on Sept 24, 2020 20:45:09 GMT
What is this "life" you speak of?
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Post by rizdek on Sept 24, 2020 20:56:35 GMT
Come on, everyone knows AIDS was God's wrath against homosexuals (even though it still killed a bunch of straight people) Just so I understand this: Jehovah, the all-seeing and infinitely-forward-looking creator of everything, created homosexuals. Then the perfect Yahweh who never makes mistakes said, "oops", and decided to "correct" his anomaly with Aids?
I wonder what "oops" he was correcting with the Black Plague or the Great Flood?
Alley oop oops
It is odd that as powerful and, as you say, forward looking as God supposedly is, that he didn't 'see that one coming' when humans...who he planned, designed and created ended up sinning and displeasing him. And the old excuse that free will makes sin inevitable it disproven by their belief that there will be free will in heaven but yet, they expect no sin.
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Post by rizdek on Sept 24, 2020 20:58:47 GMT
What is this "life" you speak of? The speculated life on Venus.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 25, 2020 12:34:00 GMT
If, as many theists would lead me to believe, it is just plain obvious that life could NOT...absolutely NOT have arisen naturally without divine intervention, or some sort of supernatural intelligent design, why is agonizing over how there could be life on Venus? Granted, they don't KNOW there is life on Venus, but IF there is...why wonder?
Have any brave Christian or Muslim scientists come out and said something like, 'if there is life on Venus, it's because God put it there...end of story!'?
But even more puzzling is...why don't theists talk up life elsewhere more optimistically. IF God designed and created life from the material HE himself created, life COULD exist anywhere...on ice planets, on rocky asteroids, on the surface of the sun, the the dark reaches of space. Because if you get to make the rules of HOW matter/energy behaves and what life required to continue, it is,...or should be child's play to make it so that life COULD be anywhere.
Being plainspoken can be an admirable trait, but not the way you're doing it.
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Post by goz on Sept 25, 2020 22:37:51 GMT
If, as many theists would lead me to believe, it is just plain obvious that life could NOT...absolutely NOT have arisen naturally without divine intervention, or some sort of supernatural intelligent design, why is agonizing over how there could be life on Venus? Granted, they don't KNOW there is life on Venus, but IF there is...why wonder?
Have any brave Christian or Muslim scientists come out and said something like, 'if there is life on Venus, it's because God put it there...end of story!'?
But even more puzzling is...why don't theists talk up life elsewhere more optimistically. IF God designed and created life from the material HE himself created, life COULD exist anywhere...on ice planets, on rocky asteroids, on the surface of the sun, the the dark reaches of space. Because if you get to make the rules of HOW matter/energy behaves and what life required to continue, it is,...or should be child's play to make it so that life COULD be anywhere.
Being plainspoken can be an admirable trait, but not the way you're doing it. You don't like logic, do you?
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 5:47:37 GMT
Life couldn't have came about naturally because we don't understand how it could have.
There is a name for this kind of thinking.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 26, 2020 6:39:28 GMT
Being plainspoken can be an admirable trait, but not the way you're doing it. You don't like logic, do you? There is a tragic simplicity that gets disguised as logic. It deceives you, not me.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 26, 2020 6:41:25 GMT
Life couldn't have came about naturally because we don't understand how it could have. There is a name for this kind of thinking. Miracles can happen, just not by any god. What is that type of thinking called?
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 6:49:35 GMT
Life couldn't have came about naturally because we don't understand how it could have. There is a name for this kind of thinking. Miracles can happen, just not by any god. What is that type of thinking called? I never said miracles can or can't happen. I don't know if "miracles" are even possible. First one would have to define what they mean by a miracle. Here is what I know - I seemingly exist and I seemingly exist in a world with other people who also exist. That is where it ends for me.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 26, 2020 7:49:38 GMT
Miracles can happen, just not by any god. What is that type of thinking called? I never said miracles can or can't happen. I don't know if "miracles" are even possible. First one would have to define what they mean by a miracle. Here is what I know - I seemingly exist and I seemingly exist in a world with other people who also exist. That is where it ends for me. Deep. How is this for a definition of a miracle, "something you cannot explain"? Speaking of things you don't know, you have eyes, ears, fingers (sensing pressure and temperature), taste and smell, do those necessarily inform you of all reality? Is it possible something can exist that neither of those can detect? What is that called? ESP? Excuse me, but if "that is where it ends" for you, why do you expect to know something down the road that you don't know today?
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 8:02:14 GMT
I never said miracles can or can't happen. I don't know if "miracles" are even possible. First one would have to define what they mean by a miracle. Here is what I know - I seemingly exist and I seemingly exist in a world with other people who also exist. That is where it ends for me. Deep. How is this for a definition of a miracle, "something you cannot explain"? Speaking of things you don't know, you have eyes, ears, fingers (sensing pressure and temperature), taste and smell, do those necessarily inform you of all reality? Is it possible something can exist that neither of those can detect? What is that called? ESP? Excuse me, but if "that is where it ends" for you, why do you expect to know something down the road that you don't know today? If that is how you are using the word miracle, then miracles happen a lot. I don't use miracle in that way, but it is among the definitions. I use miracle as something caused by "divine agency." I don't know if I can know anything for sure or even to a high degree of certainty. I think things are real, but maybe they aren't. This isn't me trying to be "deep," it is actually the way I think. It is me conveying my thought process to you. Miracles can happen, just not by any god. What is that type of thinking called?presumptuous.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 8:25:45 GMT
I never said miracles can or can't happen. I don't know if "miracles" are even possible. First one would have to define what they mean by a miracle. Here is what I know - I seemingly exist and I seemingly exist in a world with other people who also exist. That is where it ends for me. Deep. How is this for a definition of a miracle, "something you cannot explain"? Speaking of things you don't know, you have eyes, ears, fingers (sensing pressure and temperature), taste and smell, do those necessarily inform you of all reality? Is it possible something can exist that neither of those can detect? What is that called? ESP? Excuse me, but if "that is where it ends" for you, why do you expect to know something down the road that you don't know today? This just occurred to me. You are defining miracle as "something that can't be explained." Does that mean that you consider bad things that can't be explained miracles as well? Or what about the stuff inside a black hole? Are black holes miracles according to you? Physics breaks down and time and space no longer function in the same manner as they do everywhere else within the known universe and the singularity at the core is unknown.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 26, 2020 8:35:57 GMT
Deep. How is this for a definition of a miracle, "something you cannot explain"? Speaking of things you don't know, you have eyes, ears, fingers (sensing pressure and temperature), taste and smell, do those necessarily inform you of all reality? Is it possible something can exist that neither of those can detect? What is that called? ESP? Excuse me, but if "that is where it ends" for you, why do you expect to know something down the road that you don't know today? This just occurred to me. You are defining miracle as "something that can't be explained." Does that mean that you consider bad things that can't be explained miracles as well? Or what about the stuff inside a black hole? Are black holes miracles according to you? Physics breaks down and time and space no longer function in the same manner as they do everywhere else within the known universe and the singularity at the core is unknown. Some things are "unknown," which means something slightly different than cannot be explained. If you predicted one thing by the laws of nature and something else happened it is a "miracle" because it defied explanations. If you have no idea what to predict it is unknown. A black hole is something unknown.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 8:50:51 GMT
This just occurred to me. You are defining miracle as "something that can't be explained." Does that mean that you consider bad things that can't be explained miracles as well? Or what about the stuff inside a black hole? Are black holes miracles according to you? Physics breaks down and time and space no longer function in the same manner as they do everywhere else within the known universe and the singularity at the core is unknown.
If you predicted one thing by the laws of nature and something else happened it is a "miracle" because it defied explanations.
If you have no idea what to predict it is unknown. A black hole is something unknown. They are basically 2 slightly different versions of "nobody knows." Wouldn't you agree? When it comes to stuff that defies explanation or is unknown, it is pointless to even speculate about imo. It is fun to speculate about other worlds, the cause of existence and back holes and strange things that happen, but when it comes down to it I down to it I don't care much.
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Post by Arlon10 on Sept 26, 2020 8:55:21 GMT
Some things are "unknown," which means something slightly different than cannot be explained. If you predicted one thing by the laws of nature and something else happened it is a "miracle" because it defied explanations. If you have no idea what to predict it is unknown. A black hole is something unknown. They are basically 2 slightly different versions of "nobody knows." Wouldn't you agree? When it comes to stuff that defies explanation, it is pointless to even speculate about imo. It is fun to speculate about other worlds, the cause of existence and back holes, but when it comes down to it I down to it I don't care much. A lot depends on context and there can be thousands of those.
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Post by moviemouth on Sept 26, 2020 8:56:38 GMT
They are basically 2 slightly different versions of "nobody knows." Wouldn't you agree? When it comes to stuff that defies explanation, it is pointless to even speculate about imo. It is fun to speculate about other worlds, the cause of existence and back holes, but when it comes down to it I down to it I don't care much. A lot depends on context and there can be thousands of those. I am not following. Thousands of options to speculate about? Give me a specific to work with here.
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