|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 4:20:18 GMT
I finally have an answer. If everyone on the planet was cured of all disease and all major injuries and amputees were give back their limbs, either at the same exact time or even within a month and this was all over the news for the next year etc.
That would be enough for me to verify to myself that I am not just delusional and that I would have a difficult time writing off as aliens.
|
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 27, 2020 4:25:36 GMT
"That would be enough for me to verify to myself that I am not just delusional and that I would have a difficult time writing off as aliens."
Or you could just be in some Matrix-like computer simulation
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 4:29:28 GMT
"That would be enough for me to verify to myself that I am not just delusional and that I would have a difficult time writing off as aliens." Or you could just be in some Matrix-like computer simulation I didn't say it would prove to me God exists, but it would be enough for me to say I am no longer an atheist.
|
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Sept 27, 2020 4:37:34 GMT
"That would be enough for me to verify to myself that I am not just delusional and that I would have a difficult time writing off as aliens." Or you could just be in some Matrix-like computer simulation I didn't say it would prove to me God exists, but it would be enough for me to say I am no longer an atheist. Well what I'm saying is you would have to at least factor that in if you were to see proof of God. Honestly I've wondered about what exactly would convince me if "God" exists. Even if I were to see a giant being talking to me from the sky high, I would have to at least wonder "Is this real, or just a hallucination/computer simulation?". Obviously the idea of being hooked up to some sort of Matrix like machine is absurd, but I don't see how the idea of an all knowing, all powerful anthromorphic being is any less absurd.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Sept 27, 2020 4:40:23 GMT
Science could do that as well and probably will some day.
I don't see why that would make you not an atheist.
Exactly. My answer has been that nothing will convince me to become a monotheist. Absolutely nothing.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 4:45:20 GMT
I didn't say it would prove to me God exists, but it would be enough for me to say I am no longer an atheist. Well what I'm saying is you would have to at least factor that in if you were to see proof of God. Honestly I've wondered about what exactly would convince me if "God" exists. Even if I were to see a giant being talking to me from the sky high, I would have to at least wonder "Is this real, or just a hallucination/computer simulation?". Obviously the idea of being hooked up to some sort of Matrix like machine is absurd, but I don't see how the idea of an all knowing, all powerful anthromorphic being is any less absurd. Because there is at least a framework. The curing all disease would be in line with Jesus healing in the Bible. There is nothing to go off of with the computer simulation. I already addressed the hallucination thing. The fact that everyone is seeing the same news and telling their stories of them being cured for the next year makes it being a hallucination extremely unlikely.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 4:46:47 GMT
Science could do that as well and probably will some day.
I don't see why that would make you not an atheist.
Obviously if it happened after science achieved a way to do it that would be different. I am talking about if this happened tomorrow or sometime soon and all very close together.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 4:50:01 GMT
Science could do that as well and probably will some day.
I don't see why that would make you not an atheist.
Exactly. My answer has been that nothing will convince me to become a monotheist. Absolutely nothing. My issue with that answer is that it will make EVERY theist think you are just in extreme denial.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Sept 27, 2020 4:57:47 GMT
Exactly. My answer has been that nothing will convince me to become a monotheist. Absolutely nothing. My issue with that answer is that it will make EVERY theist think you are just in extreme denial. Well, they can think like that. People with very advanced technology can always outsmart people with less advanced technology. I know there are chances of me being tricked by some conman. Of course there could be that some people could just change my mind by controlling it so I may end of believing in God without my actual will (as in a machine). But given my current state of mind I believe nothing is going to convince me of a personal god as long as my mind is not altered. As per my personal ethics and beliefs there is a fundamental equality in this universe which means one entity can't be eternally superior to others. Monotheism sounds as the most stupid form of theism to me. As a matter of fact I also totally reject deism. The only possibility I see is that all are god. Which essentially means there is no such thing as god.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 4:59:07 GMT
Science could do that as well and probably will some day.
I don't see why that would make you not an atheist.
Exactly. My answer has been that nothing will convince me to become a monotheist. Absolutely nothing. Just for fun (because that is all this can ever be imo) what is the answer for everything that makes the most sense to you. For me it is the eternal multiverse. It is the only idea that my mind can make sense of.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 5:03:27 GMT
My issue with that answer is that it will make EVERY theist think you are just in extreme denial. Well, they can think like that. People with very advanced technology can always outsmart people with less advanced technology. I know there are chances of me being tricked by some conman. Of course there could be that some people could just change my mind by controlling it so I may end of believing in God without my actual will (as in a machine). But given my current state of mind I believe nothing is going to convince me of a personal god as long as my mind is not altered. As per my personal ethics and beliefs there is a fundamental equality in this universe which means one entity can't be eternally superior to others. Monotheism sounds as the most stupid form of theism to me. As a matter of fact I also totally reject deism. The only possibility I see is that all are god. Which essentially means there is no such thing as god. I agree it sounds stupid and impossible, but there is a point where my mind is just going to say "fuck it, I am a theist now." I am just going to assume at that point that I can't comprehend how it exists, but my mind would be in lockdown at that point. I still wouldn't be a gnostic theist though. I personally reject every claim that has been made about how our universe exists.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Sept 27, 2020 5:04:19 GMT
Exactly. My answer has been that nothing will convince me to become a monotheist. Absolutely nothing. Just for fun (because that is all this can ever be im) what is the answer for everything that makes the most sense to you. For me it is the eternal multiverse. It is the only idea that my mind can make sense of. I also reject the concept of determinism. I believe some events are just random and to reject determinism that is all I need. Some guy standing with science may say determinism is the favoured view currently among subject matter experts. To that I will say okay. I am not claiming to be a scientist. I just have my feelings and impulses about things. Yes, I believe in multiverse. Also I believe in eternity of universe although it may change forms.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 5:06:59 GMT
Obviously if it happened after science achieved a way to do it that would be different. I am talking about if this happened tomorrow or sometime soon and all very close together. It would make me think that something was afoot. So it could be god. It could be aliens. It could be the Illuminati. But it doesn't necessarily point to god.
But it would create a hysteria of optimism about the miraculous and that points to a god.
I dismiss the Illuminati possibility as far more ridiculous. Aliens? Maybe, but I see no reason why aliens would do such a thing and have no reason to believe they are capable of doing such a thing. I mean just doing it without showing themselves etc. I didn't say it necessarily would be a God. That is why I said "more or less" in my OP.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 5:07:51 GMT
Just for fun (because that is all this can ever be im) what is the answer for everything that makes the most sense to you. For me it is the eternal multiverse. It is the only idea that my mind can make sense of. I also reject the concept of determinism. I believe some events are just random and to reject determinism that is all I need. Some guy standing with science may say determinism is the favoured view currently among subject matter experts. To that I will say okay. I am not claiming to be a scientist. I just have my feelings and impulses about things. Yes, I believe in multiverse. Also I believe in eternity of universe although it may change forms. I am on board with that too.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 5:44:25 GMT
I dismiss the Illuminati possibility as far more ridiculous. Aliens? Maybe, but I see no reason why aliens would do such a thing and have no reason to believe they are capable of doing such a thing. I mean just doing it without showing themselves etc. I didn't say it necessarily would be a God. That is why I said "more or less" in my OP. No, the Illuminati would be the most probable answer actually. That would mean it was the result of some medical wrangling which was kept secret to the public. That doesn't even require anything supernatural. Actually, much of the speculation in a secular society would focus on the possibility that some conspiratorial group was responsible. It still sounds more ridiculous to me. If we are going on stuff in the real world then you have to follow real world logic. How would every person with an illness, injury and missing body parts be cured within a few weeks. It is a theoretical impossibility imo. I am not talking about people's injuries slowly being cured and fixed, I am talking immediately. and out of nowhere. The illuminati would still have to give the doctors the cures and/or go out in mass numbers with the cures and give it to the people. The people would then know that the cures were made by humans and given to other humans.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 6:19:56 GMT
It still sounds more ridiculous to me. If we are going on stuff in the real world then you have to follow real world logic. How would every person with an illness, injury and missing body parts be cured within a few weeks. It is a theoretical impossibility imo. I am not talking about people's injuries slowly being cured and fixed, I am talking immediately. and out of nowhere. The illuminati would still have to give the doctors the cures and/or go out in mass numbers with the cures and give it to the people. The people would then know that the cures were made by humans and given to other humans. We live in a society which rejects anything supernatural automatically. Most people, government and media especially, would be looking for a practical explanation, and that would mean there was a human cause. There is no evidence of aliens on earth whatsoever so only crackpots would bring up that possibility.
Obviously all the cured patients would have been under some kind of medical treatment. The most popular theory would be that doctors and healthcare had unwittingly administered the cures which were controlled by some secret agency.
Religious groups would be claiming miracles, but the medical experts would reject that as some fringe group's hysteria.
Yes, many people would dismiss it. I don't know if I would be able to not have my mind go to that God did it seems more possible. I mean, at the very least my perception of reality would be flipped upside down and I guess I would say that at that point I would just completely lose my grip on reality anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 6:34:49 GMT
It still sounds more ridiculous to me. If we are going on stuff in the real world then you have to follow real world logic. How would every person with an illness, injury and missing body parts be cured within a few weeks. It is a theoretical impossibility imo. I am not talking about people's injuries slowly being cured and fixed, I am talking immediately. and out of nowhere. The illuminati would still have to give the doctors the cures and/or go out in mass numbers with the cures and give it to the people. The people would then know that the cures were made by humans and given to other humans. We live in a society which rejects anything supernatural automatically. Most people, government and media especially, would be looking for a practical explanation, and that would mean there was a human cause. There is no evidence of aliens on earth whatsoever so only crackpots would bring up that possibility.
Obviously all the cured patients would have been under some kind of medical treatment. The most popular theory would be that doctors and healthcare had unwittingly administered the cures which were controlled by some secret agency.
Religious groups would be claiming miracles, but the medical experts would reject that as some fringe group's hysteria.
There has to be a point where dismissing stuff just seems ridiculous. Like what if they sky opened up and there was a God Satan war on Earth with Jesus leading the army and it was lasting for a 10 years. To write that off as something else just seems like a stretch. Like everyone around you is also confirming that they are seeing what you are seeing and blood is raining from the sky etc. I mean would you really still dismiss it? I mean sure, it still wouldn't be able to be proved that it wasn't a simulation. I am just saying, at that point I would just say "fuck it" God and the Heavens exist. Don't misunderstand me, this is just a mental exercise. I don't actually think anything like what I have said is possible to happen.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 7:18:14 GMT
Yes, many people would dismiss it. I don't know if I would be able to not have my mind go to that God did it seems more possible. I mean, at the very least my perception of reality would be flipped upside down and I guess I would say that at that point I would just completely lose my grip on reality anyway. I guess most of us would all do what people have always done, especially if someone close to us was miraculously cured. We'd thank god. I'm just saying the powers that be would be looking for a practical explanation. I was only referring to myself. Of course the powers that be would be looking for an explanation and they would be right to do so.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 7:23:49 GMT
If everyone on the planet was cured of all disease and all major injuries and amputees were give back their limbs, either at the same exact time or even within a month and this was all over the news for the next year etc.Ha! Even Jesus couldn't do that. In theory God as himself could though, because according to most theists he is all powerful and stuff. God in the form of Jesus had to still follow the rules of reality to a certain extent in order for the plan to be fulfilled. Theism is the biggest case of "we want our cake and to eat it too" that I can think of.
|
|
|
|
Post by moviemouth on Sept 27, 2020 9:23:02 GMT
In theory God as himself could though, because according to most theists he is all powerful and stuff. God in the form of Jesus had to still follow the rules of reality to a certain extent in order for the plan to be fulfilled. Theism is the biggest case of "we want our cake and to eat it too" that I can think of. Even so, is there a case in the Bible where God restored someone's severed leg? The dead get raised and donkeys will talk, you'd think he would reattach heads and such. Even poor old Job had to make do with a replacement family. God could have brought the first one back to life instead of giving him a runner-up prize after he killed off the first to prove to a point to Satan. I'm sure Job never thought of his dead children when he looked at his new ones. However the first rule of miracles is never assign anything as miraculous if there is a plausible, natural explanation. I am saying in theory God can and if he wants to convince me that he exists then doing what I said would maybe get me to give in. You can't tell me that God can create everything that exists or ever has existed and ever will exist and not be able to do what I said.
|
|
