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Post by forca84 on Oct 3, 2020 18:09:47 GMT
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TheSowIsMine
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Post by TheSowIsMine on Oct 3, 2020 18:15:55 GMT
I liked the other Dahmer things that came out. But I dont really like things made by Ryan Murphy.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Oct 3, 2020 20:44:20 GMT
I do hope the unsavory aspects will be done in a tasteful manner. (No pun intended.) We don't need to see every awful thing he did to get the impact. I also don't want something completely braindead. The last couple of AHS seasons were full of holes. We should be okay as long as Murphy is slavish to the facts and doesn't let the details go ajar.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 3, 2020 23:05:59 GMT
I liked the other Dahmer things that came out. But I dont really like things made by Ryan Murphy. Generally I agree, but I did like the OJ and Versace series. I couldn't tolerate Glee and tried and failed to tolerate various seasons of American Horror Story, but those two crime series were pretty we done.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2020 1:46:23 GMT
Something like this should not be sensationalised. Dahmer was a sick and twisted individual. Murphy has a tendency to go ott stylish. His style works well within his fictional series and AHS Hotel had a couple of episodes involving real serial killers, (I think Dahmer was one of them), but that was in context with the narrative and the vile evil of the hotel. This needs to be tread along a very precarious route. I would like to see it largely focussed on the mechanisms behind the authorities and their corruption and incompetence in allowing Dahmer to get away with his cruelly murderous spree for so long. Ir should also focus on who the victims were. I don't want to see Dahmer turned into a Freddy Krueger-type rock star.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Oct 4, 2020 12:43:34 GMT
It should also focus on who the victims were. I don't want to see Dahmer turned into a Freddy Krueger-type rock star. Yes, and whatever sympathy that is projected towards Dahmer, if any can be attributed, needs to be presented in a carefully ironic and detached manner. It can't take any bias side with him. His crimes were vile, repulsive, disgusting and heinous and from what I have read, his background while dysfunctional, doesn't seem any worse off than what others have experienced. Someone like Alieen Wuornos had it harder and I also reserve more compassion for her than someone like Dahmer, Gacy or Bundy. She didn't exactly fit the profile of a typical serial killer. She was sociopathic, not psychopathic. My Friend Dahmer presented his childhood as being pretty normal, some kids just go to the Darkside. It will be interesting to see who Ryan Murphy casts as Dahmer, Darren Criss or Chord Overstreet.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Oct 4, 2020 20:39:25 GMT
Yes, and whatever sympathy that is projected towards Dahmer, if any can be attributed, needs to be presented in a carefully ironic and detached manner. It can't take any bias side with him. His crimes were vile, repulsive, disgusting and heinous and from what I have read, his background while dysfunctional, doesn't seem any worse off than what others have experienced. Someone like Alieen Wuornos had it harder and I also reserve more compassion for her than someone like Dahmer, Gacy or Bundy. She didn't exactly fit the profile of a typical serial killer. She was sociopathic, not psychopathic. My Friend Dahmer presented his childhood as being pretty normal, some kids just go to the Darkside. It will be interesting to see who Ryan Murphy casts as Dahmer, Darren Criss or Chord Overstreet. Bar having an obvious screw lose. I figured Cody Fern was a shoe-in.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 5, 2020 11:17:07 GMT
Bar having an obvious screw lose. I figured Cody Fern was a shoe-in. It won't exactly be a coveted role either. I don't know if that's true. I think a complex leading role in a high profile series is desirable by loads of actors even if it's a portrayal of a notorious monster.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 5, 2020 12:08:18 GMT
I don't know if that's true. I think a complex leading role in a high profile series is desirable by loads of actors even if it's a portrayal of a notorious monster. It could be, but that would all depend on the writing and presentation. Like I commented earlier, this is sensitive territory and can't be sensationalized. That's true, but I really doubt that it would be. I don't think any network would be comfortable with that, and the last season with the Versace case and Andrew Cunanan presented the whole thing in a way that respected the victims while also presenting the serial killer as a human being rather than some slasher movie villain. Even the OJ season, which was all about sensationalism didn't present the crime itself in an offensive way.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 5, 2020 12:24:49 GMT
That's true, but I really doubt that it would be. I don't think any network would be comfortable with that, and the last season with the Versace case and Andrew Cunanan presented the whole thing in a way that respected the victims while also presenting the serial killer as a human being rather than some slasher movie villain. Even the OJ season, which was all about sensationalism didn't present the crime itself in an offensive way. Sick serial killers like Dahmer, not to mention the nature of the sexual violence involved, makes it very rocky and controversial territory. I don't even know if it is necessary to go there. Again, yeah that's true, but I just don't see the network (now owned by Disney, by the way) going for the offensive, un-sensitive version of this. And the history of this series suggests that they wouldn't go that way. At the same time people are always enthralled by sick serial killers and the unseemly details. Even when it's a real life story there are ways to do it right. Everyone shuddered when they heard that Tarantino was doing a Manson based story, and there have been at least two Dahmer movies that I've seen. Sure there are trashy sort of straight to video crappy movies about these serial killers, but something like Mindhunter on Netflix is a respectful, fictionalized approach. I know that it's sensitive material, but I don’t expect that anybody would want to take an approach that would be mean spirited and gross for the sake of it. You have to be careful with this kind of story, but I just don't see any reason to assume that they won't be.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 5, 2020 16:26:34 GMT
That does sound interesting. But I hope it's better than the Versace miniseries;I thought that lost steam as it went along.
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Post by quagsjonny on Oct 6, 2020 7:48:24 GMT
A brutal fiction. Why rehash this again? Yes, the police failed because they were homophobic. It has been revealed. The gay community also did a horrible job, in a horrible situation.
I don't care about the inmate who murdered him with a broken broom handle. I don't want or care about his name.
This story has been covered. Capote told stories untold, why beat a dead monster? I guess Shawshank will be remade all female cast, and we are all horrible for it not being a financial and critical success. Very original.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 6, 2020 14:42:03 GMT
A brutal fiction. Why rehash this again? Yes, the police failed because they were homophobic. It has been revealed. The gay community also did a horrible job, in a horrible situation. I don't care about the inmate who murdered him with a broken broom handle. I don't want or care about his name. This story has been covered. Capote told stories untold, why beat a dead monster? I guess Shawshank will be remade all female cast, and we are all horrible for it not being a financial and critical success. Very original. What a bizarre off the rails stream of consciousness nonsense rant.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 6, 2020 14:43:24 GMT
A brutal fiction. Why rehash this again? Yes, the police failed because they were homophobic. It has been revealed. The gay community also did a horrible job, in a horrible situation.I don't care about the inmate who murdered him with a broken broom handle. I don't want or care about his name. This story has been covered. Capote told stories untold, why beat a dead monster? I guess Shawshank will be remade all female cast, and we are all horrible for it not being a financial and critical success. Very original. I could believe this, but it also doesn't make a lot of sense, because Dahmer himself was gay, doesn't mean his victims were. If the cops didn't care because of homophobic attitudes, then I'd say this needs to be made very apparent. What do you mean the gay community did a horrible job? I believe his victims were indeed gay. He lured them into his apartment by picking them in gay bars, if I remember the story correctly.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 6, 2020 14:57:22 GMT
Again, yeah that's true, but I just don't see the network (now owned by Disney, by the way) going for the offensive, un-sensitive version of this. And the history of this series suggests that they wouldn't go that way. At the same time people are always enthralled by sick serial killers and the unseemly details. Even when it's a real life story there are ways to do it right. Everyone shuddered when they heard that Tarantino was doing a Manson based story, and there have been at least two Dahmer movies that I've seen. Sure there are trashy sort of straight to video crappy movies about these serial killers, but something like Mindhunter on Netflix is a respectful, fictionalized approach. I know that it's sensitive material, but I don’t expect that anybody would want to take an approach that would be mean spirited and gross for the sake of it. You have to be careful with this kind of story, but I just don't see any reason to assume that they won't be. Well, I have to admit, I have a fascination, as do many, with this psychological subterfuge of human behavior in films. The thing is, due to social construct, viewers would find it easier to swallow watching a serial killier like Bundy, tormenting, raping and murdering women, than a wacko like Dhamer, raping, torturing, killing and eating young men.
Even a film like Silence Of The Lambs, had a trans killer who tormented and murdered women for their skin to make a suit to become a woman himself, whereas Hannibal, just plain murdered and ate his victims and was presented in a sensationalized manner with strong personality. The sexually violent aspect involving male to male where Dahmer is concerned, I feel would just be too strong for many viewers, not to mention the depth of his heinous cruelty. I don’t really agree. There have been plenty of serial killer stories told on screen and while extra care needs to be taken with a real life story, especially one that is recent enough to be in some viewers' memories there's a way to do it right and I don't see why I should assume they'll treat the victims and the acts of depravity without any level of respect. It's gonna be on cable also, not unrated subscription cable, but basic cable. I know the distinctions are all blurred these days but there still are standards and practices involved and they can't go as explicit on FX as they can on streamers and subscription networks. Again, I agree that it's sensitive material, but I don’t think in any practical terms that it has to be any more sensitive than other similar real life stories. And the precedent that this series has set has been one of relative sensitivity to all the parties involved and has been just as much about the victims, media coverage, and police investigation as it has been about the culprit. There has been a history of complaints about demonizing gay people in these sorts of stories as well, but I don’t believe that Ryan Murphy would have that in mind (although he wasn't the lead writer on other seasons, as I understand it, as the great Scott Alexander and Larry Karazewski headed up the OJ season). Anyway, this may good or bad, it may be offensive or totally innocuous, it may be overly sensitive or overly harsh. But I don't think there's any reason that audiences can't handle this material. We are very accustomed to shows about murder and salacious material.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2020 17:45:13 GMT
Well, I have to admit, I have a fascination, as do many, with this psychological subterfuge of human behavior in films. The thing is, due to social construct, viewers would find it easier to swallow watching a serial killier like Bundy, tormenting, raping and murdering women, than a wacko like Dhamer, raping, torturing, killing and eating young men.
Even a film like Silence Of The Lambs, had a trans killer who tormented and murdered women for their skin to make a suit to become a woman himself, whereas Hannibal, just plain murdered and ate his victims and was presented in a sensationalized manner with strong personality. The sexually violent aspect involving male to male where Dahmer is concerned, I feel would just be too strong for many viewers, not to mention the depth of his heinous cruelty. I don’t really agree. There have been plenty of serial killer stories told on screen and while extra care needs to be taken with a real life story, especially one that is recent enough to be in some viewers' memories there's a way to do it right and I don't see why I should assume they'll treat the victims and the acts of depravity without any level of respect. It's gonna be on cable also, not unrated subscription cable, but basic cable. I know the distinctions are all blurred these days but there still are standards and practices involved and they can't go as explicit on FX as they can on streamers and subscription networks. Again, I agree that it's sensitive material, but I don’t think in any practical terms that it has to be any more sensitive than other similar real life stories. And the precedent that this series has set has been one of relative sensitivity to all the parties involved and has been just as much about the victims, media coverage, and police investigation as it has been about the culprit. There has been a history of complaints about demonizing gay people in these sorts of stories as well, but I don’t believe that Ryan Murphy would have that in mind (although he wasn't the lead writer on other seasons, as I understand it, as the great Scott Alexander and Larry Karazewski headed up the OJ season). Anyway, this may good or bad, it may be offensive or totally innocuous, it may be overly sensitive or overly harsh. But I don't think there's any reason that audiences can't handle this material. We are very accustomed to shows about murder and salacious material. I thought the Netflix film about Bundy was pretty good. They didn't sensationalize his kills, but showed how he did what he did and the documentary covered why. If they stay tasteful in that way, it might be fine.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 8, 2020 11:49:27 GMT
I don’t really agree. There have been plenty of serial killer stories told on screen and while extra care needs to be taken with a real life story, especially one that is recent enough to be in some viewers' memories there's a way to do it right and I don't see why I should assume they'll treat the victims and the acts of depravity without any level of respect. It's gonna be on cable also, not unrated subscription cable, but basic cable. I know the distinctions are all blurred these days but there still are standards and practices involved and they can't go as explicit on FX as they can on streamers and subscription networks. Again, I agree that it's sensitive material, but I don’t think in any practical terms that it has to be any more sensitive than other similar real life stories. And the precedent that this series has set has been one of relative sensitivity to all the parties involved and has been just as much about the victims, media coverage, and police investigation as it has been about the culprit. There has been a history of complaints about demonizing gay people in these sorts of stories as well, but I don’t believe that Ryan Murphy would have that in mind (although he wasn't the lead writer on other seasons, as I understand it, as the great Scott Alexander and Larry Karazewski headed up the OJ season). Anyway, this may good or bad, it may be offensive or totally innocuous, it may be overly sensitive or overly harsh. But I don't think there's any reason that audiences can't handle this material. We are very accustomed to shows about murder and salacious material. I would bet that Bundy would be more well known as a serial killer than Dhamer and my main point is that the dynamic of Bundy is different to that of Dhamer. It is a typical construct that it is easier to project fear onto females and the normalcy surrounding the wooing of women by a relatively good looking male who then torments, rapes and murders them is far more easier to digest than a creature like Dahmer who was homosexual and most of his victims were probably homosexual too. This may not be the case with all, because from what I have read, he got some young men back to his home under false pretences and apparently he coveted and stalked some of his victims. One of his first potential ones, a jogger he had been eyeing, managed to get away from him. I would rather see a production on Dahmer that vilifies the authorities due to their own prejudices, than something that would largely focus on his sick proclivities and victims. What Bundy did was vile and degrading, but I feel Dahmer took it too a new level. dirtypillows, what would be your take on this? You have often commented on these psychos and have appeared quite well informed on their backgrounds, especially someone like Aileen Wuornos who is labelled a serial killer and who is a completely different dynamic again. I can keep saying the same things here, but I feel like I've covered everything in this post already. I think this can be done right, I don't think it's that much different because you're dealing with a man killing men, and I don't see any reason why we should assume this will be presented in an offensive manner considering the previous seasons of the show. If it's a 10 part series, and since we've seen how this show has been presented previously I also don't see any reason why we would doubt that they'd also depict the failures of the police work surrounding Dahmer or respect the lives of the victims. Of course there will be discussions and even some level of depictions of his depravity, but since it's all so well known and well documented I also don't see any reason that it wouldn't be possible to do that in a way that audiences can handle and isn't overly exploitative. It seems that you disagree, but I don’t really know what else there is to say on the matter.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 8, 2020 12:16:58 GMT
I can keep saying the same things here, but I feel like I've covered everything in this post already. I think this can be done right, I don't think it's that much different because you're dealing with a man killing men, and I don't see any reason why we should assume this will be presented in an offensive manner considering the previous seasons of the show. If it's a 10 part series, and since we've seen how this show has been presented previously I also don't see any reason why we would doubt that they'd also depict the failures of the police work surrounding Dahmer or respect the lives of the victims. Of course there will be discussions and even some level of depictions of his depravity, but since it's all so well known and well documented I also don't see any reason that it wouldn't be possible to do that in a way that audiences can handle and isn't overly exploitative. It seems that you disagree, but I don’t really know what else there is to say on the matter. I just don't think that as many will care about what Dahmer did, as opposed to what someone like Bundy did and I am getting to the point that I feel prejudice and bias still reigns supreme when something is regarding a strong homosexual theme. It won't have the same drawcard. Other gay people may watch it, or women, but it is still not seen on equal grounds in comparison to heterosexuality and murdered women especially, would be considered more distressing than murdered gay guys. If Buffalo Bill in SOTL was kidnapping and killing fat males for their hides, I strongly doubt it would have been as popular a story\film as it was. This series will need to be tread very very gingerly and not to mention backlash from many gay people who may not like being represented in a stigmata of negative light. Again, I just disagree. Jeffrey Dahmer's name is extremely well known for a reason. People are drawn to this salacious material, and the homosexual angle is part of it. The show is led by a gay writer, has already done a series on a homosexual serial killer, and they already showed that they've handled the lives of the gay victims and the mishandling and lack of respect from the police and public in a sensitive way.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 8, 2020 12:47:01 GMT
Again, I just disagree. Jeffrey Dahmer's name is extremely well known for a reason. People are drawn to this salacious material, and the homosexual angle is part of it. The show is led by a gay writer, has already done a series on a homosexual serial killer, and they already showed that they've handled the lives of the gay victims and the mishandling and lack of respect from the police and public in a sensitive way. As I mentioned earlier, I very much doubt that Dahmer will be as well known as Bundy. The homo part will be off-putting. I have several straight male friends and I can get very frustrated with them and their phobic attitudes towards homoness. It is very likely that something like this will not hold the same appeal for straight males, as opposed to it being about a psycho raping and killing women. A large majority of this demographic will likely ignore this series. I could be wrong, but it just won't hold the same appeal. When it comes out, it will be interesting when I mention about watching it to them and what their reactions will be. K. I disagree. Dahmer is a well known name and people know this story. And if you don't think TV shows with gay themes and characters get good ratings then you haven't been paying attention to popular TV shows of late.
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Post by masterofallgoons on Oct 8, 2020 15:06:28 GMT
K. I disagree. Dahmer is a well known name and people know this story. And if you don't think TV shows with gay themes and characters get good ratings then you haven't been paying attention to popular TV shows of late. Well, all I can say, is I highly doubt they are AS popular as hetero themed ones. I guess it is wait and see now. Since we are talking about Ryan Murphy and he is one of the wealthiest and most successful TV producers in history and nearly always makes show with gay themes and characters, this strikes me as an extremely odd argument. But I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree at this point.
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